Brock vs Undertaker WM30 Discussion *WM30 Spoilers*

Jester252

Reports coming out that Taker was brought to the hospital

A Rogue Hobo

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Let's face it; he'll probably lose in his next feud and then you're back to square one.

Not really though, Lesnar can lose and still look a monster because he's been established as such and nothing will take that away. An up and comer gets the streak, then is booked poorly and might never recover.

CSF

Happiness overload.

Ape Lincoln

Jester252 wrote: »

Reports coming out that Taker was brought to the hospital

Dave Meltzer said on LAW that Taker was legit hurt in the match. Dunno about dem reddit rumours though.

Jester252

Ape Lincoln wrote: »

Dave Meltzer said on LAW that Taker was legit hurt in the match. Dunno about dem reddit rumours though.

A known reddit user that works for WWE confirmed the source. Also Hacksaw tweeted about it

CSF

Honestly I don't get what Roman Reigns has ever done to deserve this. By far the least entertaining member of the Shield. Brock Lesnar is proper main event and it seemed clear to me that Undertaker wasn't physically capable of putting on an A match this year, never mind again next year.

GTR63

Ape Lincoln wrote: »

People are tweeting from the Silverdome that there's adults in tears leaving, chants of refund etc.

I hope this means there won't be a match with Sting the gasbag next year.

Ha,ha,ha that is hilarious. Ah **** I knew I should of ordered Mania at the last minute .

A Primal Nut

People looking for a traditional 80's territory style booking logic to this; where every result is about pushing someone; are going to be disappointed.

They wanted to create a big shock on the first PPV on the network that would leave people talking and that's what they did.

In hindsight, many things start to make sense:

-All members of a pre-Raw panel a couple of weeks ago predicted the Undertaker to win.
- Cole at one point mentioned that all of the panel thought Taker would win and that nobody was giving Lesnar a chance.
- Heyman wasn't allowed mention on tv that Taker had never beaten Lesnar (something he did mention in print interviews where he would have control)
- Taker mostly dominated the buildup, apart from the final Raw.

They decided to orchestrate the biggest shock in WrestleMania history to get people talking and get lots of publicity, and leave people thinking they got their money's worth for $9.99. It's a memory no wrestling fan will forget, for better or worse.

Lesnar could have told them he will retire tomorrow and they probably would have done the same thing.

CSF

Largely, I think a lot of the internets reactions to this have proved HHH's recent promos to be fairly on the Mark. I'm delighted that this was a really unpredictable PPV after months of watching PPVs play out like rewatching a TV episode I had already seen.

Garseys

I suppose the anything can happen In WWE saying really applied here. I was stunned.

Im glad its a household name like Lesnar that ended it.

I think the crowd reaction said it all. Anyway everyone mostly went home happy with Bryan anyway.

SlickRic

brilliant stuff.

WWE did absolutely the right thing with the Streak, assuming Taker can't go anymore.

the Network gets great publicilty, Lesnar has hus aura back (an aura nobody else would've had, even if they took took the Streak, part-time or not) and we get the unpredictability we always complain that we don't get.

this was a business decision. it is arguably the most lucrative way they could've used the Streak tbh. more Network subscriptions and Mania will still be seen as a big enough deal going forward that people will buy it.

I'd have loved the fantasy booking of a Reigns or someone taking it in a year or so. but the Network needed another calling card to try to push it over the line, and this was it.

also, Lesnar/Bryan is now an exercise in printing money if they want to. have HHH/Steph bury the hatchet with Lesnar/Heyman before next year's Wrestlemania and just run with it.

Angron

I don't much like that it that Lesnar won, but I'm starting to think part of it is how poor the match was. After the matches with Michaels, Trips, and Punk it just feels like a brown note.

Mr.Saturn

Angron wrote: »

I don't much like that it that Lesnar won, but I'm starting to think part of it is how poor the match was. After the matches with Michaels, Trips, and Punk it just feels like a brown note.

Not disagreeing, but whatever quality the match ended up, the only thing anyone was taking from it was that 'Taker lost.

GavRedKing

No problem with the streak ending but I genuinely thought it would go with the Undertaker, arguably it was his greatest legacy, not the championships hes won, people would ahve remembered him for his streak so it takes a lot of balls by Taker to do the job and offer up the streak.

Its put Lesnar over massively and hes not basically the only man to beat Taker at Mania when so many others couldnt, Lesnar cna be booked as strong as they want but i guess it depends on his own commitments too.

One of the best 'Manias in a long, long time IMO.

Soft Falling Rain

The only problem I have with the result was the abysmal build up, and the match itself. Facing Brock Lesnar means serious **** again, and that's something they can get a lot of mileage out of.

I strongly suspect that WWE didn't run with this without certain assurances, and I wouldn't be surprised if he signed an extension. No way they give him the streak when he only has a year left.

Angron

Mr.Saturn wrote: »

Not disagreeing, but whatever quality the match ended up, the only thing anyone was taking from it was that 'Taker lost.

At least it wasn't the worst Taker match at mania, that honour will always belong to Giant Gonzalez.

Lithium93_

After last night, i'm expecting The Undertaker to announce his retirement tonight on Raw and the whole locker room comes out and applauds him for his magnificent career (think Ric Flair's retirement a few years ago)



On a sidenote, Brock Lesnar beating THE STREAK WHAT THE ****, any ideas if it was Taker's decision or Vince's decision to end THE STREAK.

CSF

Lithium93_ wrote: »

After last night, i'm expecting The Undertaker to announce his retirement tonight on Raw and the whole locker room comes out and applauds him for his magnificent career (think Ric Flair's retirement a few years ago)



On a sidenote, Brock Lesnar beating THE STREAK WHAT THE ****, any ideas if it was Taker's decision or Vince's decision to end THE STREAK.

You would have to think it was both or else it wouldn't have happened.

princemuzzy

really happy i stayed up to watch it would have been gutted reading about it this morning ..... still think it went to the wrong guy but hey Vince makes money i just spend it

deadybai

CSF wrote: »

You would have to think it was both or else it wouldn't have happened.

they have probably known for since 13-0 that taker would end it. Vince probably didn't disagree with taker and said end it if you want, whenever you want.

But come on, BROCK LESNAR! FFS. Should have been Michaels or HHH. The best thing about it was that it was so memorable. I am glad I stayed up to watch it.
And the match was dire. I think that made it even more shocking. But what a moment to have witnessed.

funtime93

Lithium93_ wrote: »

After last night, i'm expecting The Undertaker to announce his retirement tonight on Raw and the whole locker room comes out and applauds him for his magnificent career (think Ric Flair's retirement a few years ago)



On a sidenote, Brock Lesnar beating THE STREAK WHAT THE ****, any ideas if it was Taker's decision or Vince's decision to end THE STREAK.

100% taker's IMO

CSF

deadybai wrote: »

they have probably known for since 13-0 that taker would end it. Vince probably didn't disagree with taker and said end it if you want, whenever you want.

But come on, BROCK LESNAR! FFS. Should have been Michaels or HHH. The best thing about it was that it was so memorable. I am glad I stayed up to watch it.
And the match was dire. I think that made it even more shocking. But what a moment to have witnessed.

Lesnar > HHH
I don't think Vince would give away complete creative control on an asset worth so much.

krudler

I agree that it's given Brock that monster feel back to him, which was squandered a bit since he came back. Granted the build was crap and ideally it should have went to an up and comer or someone in for the long haul, but now Lesnar can go after Bryan and hell if anything else it's been the most shocking thing that's happened in YEARS.

rovert

So is the trajectory Brock Lesaner-Daniel Bryan at Summerslam or even Extreme Rules. The latter being an option as

apparently The Shield vs Evolution is the next feud for Extreme Rules.

Cianan2

Just read on Facebook: the Undertaker never lost while Sir Alex Ferguson was in charge. Blame David Moyes

Turtyturd

CSF wrote: »

Lesnar > HHH

In a day of crazy on the internet this example will probably go unnoticed.

Was a great shock moment, but probably to the wrong person. Although glad he didn't drop it to Punk last year.

Mr.Nice Guy

Honestly I think they wanted a big talking point for the Network era and because they are seeking as much media attention as possible these days. I've heard Taker has wanted to lose it on a few occasions and presumably Vince vetoed the idea each time but because of where they are at the moment, he decided to pull the trigger.

It felt to me like it was purely for shock value rather than because it was 'best for business'.

Seems like it was wasted on a guy who never had a heart for the business and who may have only ten or so matches left in him for this run. If they were going to do it, and I don't think they should have personally, at least do it on a guy who has more mileage in him and who could do with the rub.

Mr.Saturn

I'm guessing that the match'll improve on a rewatch. A lot of tropes that were involved in a Streak match clouded that it was ever actually in jeopardy. Yes, one could point to a sour build-up, but if it'd anyway hinted with a heavy hand you wouldn't have that legitimate once-in-a-lifetime display of shock and silent mourning from the crowd. Imagining it playing out like a tragedy on another look. I know when that mat got slapped for a 3rd time it drew a reaction out of me that wrestling's never managed before.

Lesnar makes sense as being one that can take it and not have it be 'it' about him. It will be a considerable hook in his draw, of course, but he's always going to be Brock Lesnar and not 'the guy that ended the Streak'.

krudler

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Honestly I think they wanted a big talking point for the Network era and because they are seeking as much media attention as possible these days. I've heard Taker has wanted to lose it on a few occasions and presumably Vince vetoed the idea each time but because of where they are at the moment, he decided to pull the trigger.

It felt to me like it was purely for shock value rather than because it was 'best for business'.

Seems like it was wasted on a guy who never had a heart for the business and who may have only ten or so matches left in him for this run. If they were going to do it, and I don't think they should have personally, at least do it on a guy who has more mileage in him and who could do with the rub.

Cesaro or Reigns would have been perfect candidates imo, both future champs, both over, both talented. a few years ago I woulda said Sheamus but that time has passed.

Rjd2

Cianan2 wrote: »

Just read on Facebook: the Undertaker never lost while Sir Alex Ferguson was in charge. Blame David Moyes

Soft Falling Rain

I'm absolutely sure this was Taker's call, so I wonder how much convincing Vinny took. :P

D.Q

"and that's not a prediction, that's a spoiler"

ricero

any chance you think they may push another superstar with a streak of their own ?

Megager

I thought it was incredible. Theyve passed the baton of money match on future cards from Taker to Lesnar. Lesnar will continue to work his reduced schedule but every single match he has will be massive. He doesnt need to be there all the time unless/until hes involved in the title picture. Personally I think it was the right person to take it as Heyman and anyone else of his associates can also get a rub from this. How I feel now is comparable to survivor 97. Well done WWE

Alfred Borden

is there truly a bigger legend in the wrestling business than Taker? Always does whats right for the company and has put numerous people over without the need for having to get a win later down the road. Truly the best ever imo.

Mr.Nice Guy

Often when someone leaves their job the other employees chip in a few bob to give the person a nice send-off.

Maybe the WWE did that with Taker but instead told employees to stick their money on Brock's odds for the match.

Now Taker's gone and he's buying the biggest boat you've ever seen.

Machismo Fan

I think the worst part of it really was that the match just wasn't that good, especially when put next to the last seven years or so of top Undertaker WrestleMania matches. The Streak went out with a bit of a whimper instead of a bang.

Lithium93_

Well looks like the finish last night was planned, there goes my thinking it was a botch finish.

As far as the finish to the match is concerned, Undertaker’s potential injuries played no part in changing the originally designed outcome. The match went off as planned, with Lesnar scheduled to go over.

http://www.sescoops.com/undertaker-hospitalized-wrestlemania-concussion-possible-neck-injury/

krudler

Machismo Fan wrote: »

I think the worst part of it really was that the match just wasn't that good, especially when put next to the last seven years or so of top Undertaker WrestleMania matches. The Streak went out with a bit of a whimper instead of a bang.

Maybe Taker just didnt have another great match in him, he didn't look well compared to previous years. He doesn't owe people anything at this point, his matches have been the highlights of wrestlemania since 23 give or take.

Machismo Fan

krudler wrote: »

Maybe Taker just didnt have another great match in him, he didn't look well compared to previous years.

Well he was injured which does make sense, he just didn't look right for much of that match last night.

Penn

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Well looks like the finish last night was planned, there goes my thinking it was a botch finish.



http://www.sescoops.com/undertaker-hospitalized-wrestlemania-concussion-possible-neck-injury/

Yeah, watching a gif of the finish again, Heyman gets into the ring far too quickly for it to have been a botch finish. A second after the ref hits three Heyman gets into the ring. And the ref had no hesitation in counting to three and looking for the bell to be rung. It was definitely planned.

astonaidan

ricero wrote: »

any chance you think they may push another superstar with a streak of their own ?

Awesome!!!!!!! I think the Miz is on a streak

rovert

Fans be like:

DM_7

^^^ My Accumulator!!!!!

SlickRic

honestly, i think we, the IWC, made far too much of just how big a rub the Streak could be to someone long-term.

Lesnar is the biggest drawing heel they have. they desperately need a big baddass heel for SummerSlam, as well as even Wrestlemania next year, especially with Bryan on such a wave of momentum.

Batista ain't drawing. Orton ain't drawing.

Triple H was actually the biggest heel they had before Wrestlemania.

that has now changed, and the possibilities are all of a sudden thrown wide open with regards a match with Bryan in particular, but also a possible rematch with Cena.

now, it would have been incredible if Lesnar hadn't lost to either Cena or HHH before last night, as can you imagine the draw he'd now be? but this was the best way to rehabilitate Lesnar's stock, while also doing away with the Streak which, blatantly, Undertaker didn't care about as much as most people did.

i'm absolutely fine with it all.

spiritcrusher

Watched WM in college quietly this morning in a tutorial room, with a few others from my class studying around me. I think they must've thought a relative died after looking at my face after the Taker - Lesnar match. Pretty poor match, Taker looked completely done, but in one way that made it even more surreal. No one was really paying attention up until the last couple of minutes and then the three count... I wasn't watching when Hogan joined the NWO so that is by far and away the biggest shock I've seen in wrestling. I'm not sure yet what to make of it but at the time I LOVED those reactions from the crowd. The most genuine and real few minutes of wrestling I think I've ever seen (yes, I realise the irony).
I am slightly disappointed the Cena match never appeared but I think I'd prefer Lesnar get the win over him.
In reality though Lesnar winning makes sense, he's mid-30s and a proper fighter. Undertaker is 50 and his body is crippled. I assume Lesnar getting the win probably means they've agreed that he'll be knocking about on and off for years yet seeing as he's still relatively young. And now they have a colossal heel again. Like someone else mentioned, the heat from beating Taker may have been too much for the younger guys.
Time will tell what the knock on effects will be I guess. Great moment though.

Cianan2

Cesaro is now 1-0, right?

Ape Lincoln

Machismo Fan wrote: »

I think the worst part of it really was that the match just wasn't that good, especially when put next to the last seven years or so of top Undertaker WrestleMania matches. The Streak went out with a bit of a whimper instead of a bang.

Yeah the match was the drizzling sh*ts. You could quite clearly see and at times hear them talking through the spots during the match. I suppose it's possible he wanted to work a dull match to make the ending all that more shocking.

Qs

SlickRic wrote: »

now, it would have been incredible if Lesnar hadn't lost to either Cena or HHH before last night, as can you imagine the draw he'd now be?

Thats the biggest blunder here. Especially as Cena gained nothing from winning that match after having his ass kicked. And HHH is a joke to most people anyway. So what good was there having him lose those? To put him in his place, to prove WWE is better than UFC?

J. Marston

Cianan2 wrote: »

Cesaro is now 1-0, right?

Does the pre-show count? Cesaro was pinned in that.