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Live in landlord

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  • 07-04-2014 9:31am
    #1
    The Ging and I
    Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭


    I have been renting to two great tenants for 3 years.
    One of them is leaving at the end of the current lease.
    I am considering moving in as I am mostly away a lot and need a base here.
    Apart from the tax and PRTB benefit is there any pitfalls to look out for in shared accommodation ?
    Do I use a standard lease form ?
    Worst case scenario; we are not getting along , what is the way out for me ?


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    #2
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    What about the other tenant, are they staying? You can't just move in if they are as they have a lease.


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    #3
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,959 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Ahh, I think it depends on the nature of the current lease.

    If both tenants have signed it, and one leaves, then the lease and the remaining tenant's Part IV rights end.


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    #4
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Ahh, I think it depends on the nature of the current lease.

    If both tenants have signed it, and one leaves, then the lease and the remaining tenant's Part IV rights end.

    I'm not sure on that. Chapter 6 of Part 4 outlines protection of individual rights in multiple tenancy (including joint tenancy).

    Nevertheless, I still don't think you can just switch the lease from tenancy to rent a room.


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    #5
    The Ging and I
    Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭The Ging and I


    When I told the tenants I would be moving in I did say if either wanted to stay on I would be happy to have one of them. So one has asked to stay and I need to trash out the details.
    As I am away a lot I want the place occupied.


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    #6
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    The Ging and I wrote: »
    When I told the tenants I would be moving in I did say if either wanted to stay on I would be happy to have one of them. So one has asked to stay and I need to trash out the details.
    As I am away a lot I want the place occupied.

    Did you make them aware of the change in circumstances? Most people won't know they are sacrificing a lot of rights by changing the lease like this.


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    #7
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    The Ging and I wrote: »
    When I told the tenants I would be moving in I did say if either wanted to stay on I would be happy to have one of them. So one has asked to stay and I need to trash out the details.
    As I am away a lot I want the place occupied.

    Does the remaining tenant know that they will lose all the rights of a tenant to notice etc. They will become a licences and can be thrown out on the street with minimum notice.


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    #8
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,384 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    The landlord did everything right here. He informed them that he wished to move in (which he is allowed to do) and offered them the opportunity stay or go. It is debateable as to whether he should instruct his tenant in Irish property law by informing them of the new obligations as the tenant is presumably an adult with just as much opportunity to know their own rights as the Landlord is.

    Now to actually answer the OPs question without reading between the lines for issues that may or may not exist.

    The tax is the main gain but be aware that you still need to file a return and ensure you do not exceed the thresholds.

    wrt the PRTB you do not have to deal with them.

    If you want the tenant to leave they have to leave, no ifs no and no buts. You can change the locks and turf him onto the street (not physically but you get my point). A lease is not worth the paper it is written on.
    That said common decency would say that you allow the guy as much freedom as possible in the house and if things do go bad then a decent bit of notice would be morally fair.


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    #9
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,959 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    The tenant might well be delighted to have the landlord:

    1) Living there, and thus with a stronger-than-usual incentive to fix any problems quickly AND
    2) Away a lot, meaning they get the place to themselves a lot.

    as well as with the fact that if they choose to leave, then can do so without giving any notice!


    Sometimes I think that posters on this forum spend so much time studying the legalities that they forget what real life is like.

    OP, the only other hassles I can think of is the tenant's emotional response to "living with the landlord" (which doesn't seem to be a problem), and your own tendancy to feel like you have superior rights.

    The latter doesn't have to be an issue at all, provided you treat it as a mature adult house-share. And I suspect that you will, given the history, and that you are away. The only thing to watch is that you maintain good communications with the tenant, eg not show up unexepctedly when they were expecting you to be away.


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    #10
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    What tenant would be delighted to go from a reasonably secured tenancy to one where there have no rights? An idiot maybe.


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    #11
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    There are pluses and minuses to consider. I personally wouldn't want to live with the landlord. The problem I have is if the tenant continues while thinking they have the same protection under the RTA legislation. I understand where Pawwed Rig comes from that the tenants should know the circumstances and laws themselves, but this is a more unusual situation where the tenant started off on a regular tenancy and might think it still applies.

    The number of threads that are started here regarding this and that shows the general ignorance from the public on tenancy laws. If I were a landlord in this position, I wouldn't feel comfortable unless I knew I had explained the ramifications to the tenant upfront.


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    #12
    sligoface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭sligoface


    I'd be surprised that a tenant would be ok with it, no way would I want to live with my landlord, especially after I've lived there for 3 years and it felt like 'my place', whereas living with the owner-occupier it would now feel like the opposite. But I suppose now the tenant doesn't have the hassle of moving or finding a new housemate.


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    #13
    h2005
    Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭h2005


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Does the remaining tenant know that they will lose all the rights of a tenant to notice etc. They will become a licences and can be thrown out on the street with minimum notice.

    It's up to the tenant to do their own homework no?


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    #14
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    The OP would have to exercise his rights under Part 4 rules (after the fixed term expires) that he requires the property for his own use and serve the tenant wishing to remain with a notice of termination thus terminating any Part 4 rights of the tenant. By mutual agreement the required notice period of 56/84 days may be shorter.

    The OP may then return to his property and rent out a room or two. If either of the tenants wish to remain living in the property as a licensee, that is up to them and any "house rules" as agreed between the OP and the lodger/s.

    In spite of many people's dislike of living as a licensee with the owner occupier, it is my preferred form of renting - any problems between other lodgers and/or landlord can be quickly resolved.


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    #15
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,384 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    odds_on wrote: »
    In spite of many people's dislike of living as a licensee with the owner occupier, it is my preferred form of renting - any problems between other lodgers and/or landlord can be quickly resolved.

    It is the preferred choice of lots of people and always has been


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    #16
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,535 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    drumswan wrote: »
    What tenant would be delighted to go from a reasonably secured tenancy to one where there have no rights? An idiot maybe.

    one that would have to move out as they can not to afford the whole building, or one that would have to move out as the landlord requires the house for their own use. one that might want the luxury of being able to move out whenever they want.


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    #17
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    drumswan wrote: »
    What tenant would be delighted to go from a reasonably secured tenancy to one where there have no rights? An idiot maybe.
    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    It is the preferred choice of lots of people and always has been
    Ok, so, I'm an idiot, but an intelligent idiot who did not want the hassle of being tied down to a fixed term lease nor the thought of having to give over a month's notice period.


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    #18
    The Ging and I
    Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭The Ging and I


    Thanks for your ideas.
    The tenant is in the legal game but I will explain the loss of rights etc.
    Ironically it is I who feel that I am moving into someone elses house and will have to fall into existing patterns.


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    #19
    sligoface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭sligoface


    The Ging and I wrote: »
    Thanks for your ideas.
    The tenant is in the legal game but I will explain the loss of rights etc.
    Ironically it is I who feel that I am moving into someone elses house and will have to fall into existing patterns.

    Well I'd say it's a good sign you feel that way, your tenant will appreciate it if you act like an equal housemate and it might work out ok.


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