Handling of halogen lamps when installing?

tomdempsey200

and some metal halide too..

following on from another thread, is it a myth that handling the lamps may reduce lifespan

I certainly won't be wasting my time with handling precautions if this is the case

solargain

Salt residue from your hands causes a hot spot in the halogen lamps and they blow

tomdempsey200

ok

wikihow on another lightbulb thread claims it's an 'urban legend'

so I thought it would be worth clarifying the matter

2011

I was always told not to handle halogen lamps as this may cause them to expire prematurely.
There are plenty of links on the internet supporting this view.

fleet

My Osram H4 bulbs say to use gloves.
They're German though, so possibly culturally more likely to repeat over cautious myths unless they specifically tested the theory themselves?

2011

fleet wrote: »

They're German though, so possibly more likely to repeat over cautious myths unless they specifically tested the theory themselves.

I lived and worked in Deutschland.
My experience with ze Germans is that they research this sort of thing very throughly.

Sir Arthur Daley

I still stand by it being an urban legend, there are plenty of links no doubt also supporting this claim, one cannot believe everything they search off google though.
Is there hard scientific evidence that touching a halogen high temperature bulb degrades or stresses it or is this simply a commonly accepted "fact" repeated and believed by everyone (including distributors) without verification?

2011

WikiHow wrote: »

I still stand by it being an urban legend

....and you base this on what exactly?

Is there hard scientific evidence that touching a halogen high temperature bulb degrades or stresses it

Well there is this:

"Handling precautions
Any surface contamination, notably the oil from human fingertips, can damage the quartz envelope when it is heated. Contaminants will create a hot spot on the bulb surface when the lamp is turned on. This extreme, localized heat causes the quartz to change from its vitreous form into a weaker, crystalline form that leaks gas."

Scientific enough ??

Sir Arthur Daley

2011 wrote: »

....and you base this on what exactly?

A comprehensive experiment that i did with another work colleague, we tested various lamps to their manufacturer life time, the lamps that were touched by human hands i.e exposed to all the natural oils, salts etc in the human lasted as long and some surpassed the non contact ones.

Scientific enough ??

My 4 year old niece could have created an account with Wikipedia and have edited that source, I would sooner believe something off Facebook than that

2011

You're right it's a conspiracy

Sir Arthur Daley

2011 wrote: »

You're right it's a conspiracy

Its no conspiracy its a fact anyone can create an account and edit Wikipedia.

2011

WikiHow wrote: »

Its no conspiracy its a fact anyone can create an account and edit Wikipedia.

It would seem that this, this and this manufacturer would not agree with your position.

My money is still on a conspiracy

2011

Then there is also this finding from researchers at Michigan State University, but sure what would they know?

Sir Arthur Daley

2011 wrote: »

My money is still on a conspiracy

My money is on it being an urban legend, i base my opinion on the data i have from the research i did, i have not based my opinion from Mr.Google.

2011

WikiHow wrote: »

My money is on it being an urban legend, i base my opinion on the data i have from the research i did, i have not based my opinion from Mr.Google.

So are you suggesting that manufacturers recommendations should be ignored even when they appear on their own official website?Can I take it that your position is that all information appearing on the internet including that from reputable sources (such as universities) can not be relied upon either?

tomdempsey200

the issue seems to be hotspots on the glass?

that was always my understanding too

how does that reduce lamplife exactly

KERSPLAT!

2011 wrote: »

....and you base this on what exactly?



Well there is this:

"Handling precautions
Any surface contamination, notably the oil from human fingertips, can damage the quartz envelope when it is heated. Contaminants will create a hot spot on the bulb surface when the lamp is turned on. This extreme, localized heat causes the quartz to change from its vitreous form into a weaker, crystalline form that leaks gas."

Scientific enough ??

There ya go

tomdempsey200

"This extreme, localized heat causes the quartz to change from its vitreous form into a weaker, crystalline form that leaks gas."

that seems to explain it..

there is also the risk of the glass shattering too causing premature failure

is contamination from improper handling guaranteed to affect lamplife?

Sir Arthur Daley

2011 wrote: »

So are you suggesting that manufacturers recommendations should be ignored even when they appear on their own official website?

I am not suggesting that at all, the only thing i have suggested so far in this thread is that people should not believe everything they read off wikipedia as anyone can edit it as i have said in post #9.

Can I take it that your position is that all information appearing on the internet including that from reputable sources (such as universities) can not be relied upon either?

Where in this thread excluding the wikipedia source have i expressed my position that the other sources that you have produced or other ones anyone can get from Mr.google cannot be relied upon?

2011

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

is contamination from improper handling guaranteed to affect lamplife?

I doubt it, there are too many variables such as the extent of the contamination. The manufactures warn that poor handling "may" or "could" reduce lamp life.

there is also the risk of the glass shattering

I have seen this happen several times.

2011

WikiHow wrote: »

I am not suggesting that at all, the only thing i have suggested so far in this thread is that people should not believe everything they read off wikipedia as anyone can edit it as i have said in post #9.

Your position that manufactuer's official websites can be believed conflicts with your position that the handling of halogen lamps does not have any impact on lamp life.

Where in this thread excluding the wikipedia source have i expressed my position that the other sources that you have produced or other ones anyone can get from Mr.google cannot be relied upon?

Try post #14
This appears to be your response to the previous 2 posts which provide links to manufacturers recommendations (that you now appear to agree with) and to a statement from a university.

Your research conflicts with the manufacturers that you now appear to agree with

Sir Arthur Daley

2011 wrote: »

Your position that manufactuer's official websites can be believed conflicts with your position that the handling of halogen lamps does not have any impact on lamp life.

You are the one connecting my opinion to manufactorers opinions, you are inventing this argument and want me to argue with this nonsensical arguement with you, all i have said so far is that touching lamps with hands is an urban legend, stop implying things i am not saying please.
Do you want to have a debate/discussion on whether i think the manufactorers claims thoughts are or will you just accept my own personal opinion and move on?

Try post #14
This appears to be your response to the previous 2 posts which provide links to manufacturers recommendations (that you now appear to agree with) and to a statement from a university.

Your research conflicts with the manufacturers that you now appear to agree with

mr.google is not a real website, a bit like the theory of bulbs failing prematurely.

2011

WikiHow wrote: »

You are the one connecting my opinion to manufactorers opinions

So you think that the manufacturers are incorrect when they suggest that poor handling of halogen lamps may cause them to expire prematurely and therefore their recommendations should be ignored?

tomdempsey200

"extreme, localized heat causes the quartz to change from its vitreous form into a weaker, crystalline form that leaks gas."

^^^

is there agreement that the above is the issue with improper handling


as well as the possibility of shattered bulb glass

2011

^^^ that theory seems to align with what the manufactuers etc. are saying.
So I would think it is correct.

Sir Arthur Daley

2011 wrote: »

So you think that the manufacturers are incorrect when they suggest that poor handling of halogen lamps may cause them to expire prematurely and therefore their recommendations should be ignored?

Since you cant move on i am of the understanding you want to enter into a debate/discussion.

Handling halogen bulbs absolutely and certainly damages them. I regularly replace 1.2kW and 2kW bulbs with burnt in fingerprints on the glass from when they were incorrectly installed, or asymmetrical bubbles of warped glass like something freshly home blown. How hot did the bulbs in your scientific tests get WikiHow?

Shattered bulbs are harder to prove.

Same goes for MSR's except they're a lot more violent when they explode.

Sir Arthur Daley

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

How hot did the bulbs in your scientific tests get WikiHow?

The tests as i have previously mentioned were to prove whether a halogen lamp would fail prematurely if in contact with human skin or not, this was the sole aim of the test, investigating the running temperatures of the bulbs was not part of the tests thus we never measured the temperatures.

I'll grant you that most bulbs it has little effect on. You'll never upset a dichroic for instance. Floodlights, car head lamps, all discharge lamps, most tungsten over 500watts, are susceptible. It's not about the halogen it's about the even expansion of glass under temperature conditions and it's density.

Sir Arthur Daley

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Floodlights, car head lamps, all discharge lamps, most tungsten over 500watts, are susceptible.

A variation of what you have mentioned there were tested and passed with flying colours.