Electric Storage Heaters, BER - Desperately need some advice

lexluthor

Hi guys,

Looking at the current situation in rental market, in terms of how quickly apartments seem to be moving, my flatmate and I are looking into closing a deal asap. We're happy with overall aspects of one of the apartments we've viewed but the problem is

a) The apartment has Electric Storage Heaters
b) It has a BER of D2, kind of mid - low grade

So I'd just like to know firstly, about the efficiency and effectiveness of Electric Storage Heaters? Do they actually keep an apartment warm? I've been very happy to date with all apartments I've rented but they were all Gas heating, never used electric heating.

Also, D2 rating, of course it's not the best, but just how bad is it? I know it's not really possible to get a very accurate figure, but how much monthly bill are we roughly looking at, for winter months particularly, based on reasonable usage?

Thanks a mill in advance.

Ray Palmer

Electric storage heaters are notoriously difficult to operate effectively and given a choice most people would not want them. Also expensive to use.

BER D2 is low not mid. In saying that BER is also pretty useless in gauging costs and can be very easily done incorrectly let alone the fact it is not accurate either way.

conorhal

You might as well set fire to your money to stay warm.

With such a low BER, if you're at work all day the house will probably be cold by the time you get home.

runawaybishop

lexluthor wrote: »

a) The apartment has Electric Storage Heaters
b) It has a BER of D2, kind of mid - low grade

a) expensive way to heat a house, possibly the most expensive way to heat it. Extremely expensive to heat on demand and also very hard to regulate properly.
b) thats a low rating, will be hard to keep warm

The two combined mean you'll be forking out a lot of cash to keep it warm.

Ray Palmer

Guys it is an apartment not a house. Depending on where the apartment is in the building it may not actually require much heating. Middle apartment gets heated by lower apartment and insulated by the upper apartment for example.


In saying that it doesn't sound like the ideal purchase.

runawaybishop

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Guys it is an apartment not a house. Depending on where the apartment is in the building it may not actually require much heating. Middle apartment gets heated by lower apartment and insulated by the upper apartment for example.


In saying that it doesn't sound like the ideal purchase.

Speculation We can only go on facts provided, which are expensive heating appliances and poor BER.

P. Breathnach

Isn't it the case that heating systems are an important component of the BER, and that electric storage heaters pretty well force the BER up a few points? I have the impression that if your principal or only heat source is storage heaters, it's nigh on impossible the get a BER of C or better.

runawaybishop

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Isn't it the case that heating systems are an important component of the BER, and that electric storage heaters pretty well force the BER up a few points? I have the impression that if your principal or only heat source is storage heaters, it's nigh on impossible the get a BER of C or better.

Yes, they drop the BER.

Mrs OBumble

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Electric storage heaters are notoriously difficult to operate effectively and given a choice most people would not want them. Also expensive to use.

I have lived with storage headers for years, and am very happy with them. The living area has a small one (which is fine most of the time) and a large one (which we only use when the businesses in the building close over Christmas so there's less transferred heat around).

They probably won't work so well for precious flowers who think that the hallway and loo need their own heaters. But for normally robust people, they're fine.

The controls are easy enough to learn. Yes, they do take some forethought - but that's no different to most other aspects of life.

My first year, I was living alone and there was no one home during the day. So I used the storage at weekends, and the boost fan on the evenings i was home. Bills were not excessive.

They are supplemented by radiant heaters in bedrooms that we use only occasionally (20 mins in the evenings on the very coldest of days).

runawaybishop

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I have lived with storage headers for years, and am very happy with them. The living area has a small one (which is fine most of the time) and a large one (which we only use when the businesses in the building close over Christmas so there's less transferred heat around).

They probably won't work so well for precious flowers who think that the hallway and loo need their own heaters. But for normally robust people, they're fine.

The controls are easy enough to learn. Yes, they do take some forethought - but that's no different to most other aspects of life.

My first year, I was living alone and there was no one home during the day. So I used the storage at weekends, and the boost fan on the evenings i was home. Bills were not excessive.

They are supplemented by radiant heaters in bedrooms that we use only occasionally (20 mins in the evenings on the very coldest of days).

Not sure why you'd be happy. They are the most expensive way you can heat your house and do not react to changing conditions. I don't get why you'd call people precious flowers for not liking a bad and expensive heating solution

Mrs OBumble

Because my power bill is between E100 and E180 per two months, on average. From what I hear, that's pretty reasonable for a 2brm property.

I don't have to pay out for a tank of oil. I don't have to worry about the k****r stealing my oil. I don't have a naked flame anywhere in the house. I don't have stand-alone heaters to be falling over.

Actually, there's one thing I don't like, and that's not having gas for cooking. If I could have that, then I'd live with gas heating. But AFAIK there are big areas on Ireland that don't have it, so I put up with it.

runawaybishop

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Because my power bill is between E100 and E180 per two months, on average. From what I hear, that's pretty reasonable for a 2brm property.

I don't have to pay out for a tank of oil. I don't have to worry about the k****r stealing my oil. I don't have a naked flame anywhere in the house. I don't have stand-alone heaters to be falling over.

Actually, there's one thing I don't like, and that's not having gas for cooking. If I could have that, then I'd live with gas heating. But AFAIK there are big areas on Ireland that don't have it, so I put up with it.

You might be happy with your bill but its still an expensive way to heat your house.

Ray Palmer

runawaybishop wrote: »

Not sure why you'd be happy. They are the most expensive way you can heat your house and do not react to changing conditions. I don't get why you'd call people precious flowers for not liking a bad and expensive heating solution

Obviously wanting your bathroom or hall heated is some fancy requirement to some people.

Storage heaters are fundamentally difficult to get right and expensive. Very poor energy efficiency. There is always some people who think they are fine but the vast majority do not want these things.

P. Breathnach

P. Breathnach wrote: »

... electric storage heaters pretty well force the BER up a few points...

runawaybishop wrote: »

Yes, they drop the BER.

I'm sure we mean the same thing. Should we settle on "worsen"?

lexluthor

Guys thank you so much for the feedback, much appreciated. For an utter dummy like myself when it comes to DIY, I think I'm going to pass given the complexity in operating them which is evident form some other threads as well! Might as well just hold on and wait for a regular gas heated apartment.

Idbatterim

if its just a 2 bed, could you not just put an electric rad in the two bedrooms and living area? Just turn on and off as needs be. Or have them on a timer. Many now will have thermostat built in...

Graces7

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Because my power bill is between E100 and E180 per two months, on average. From what I hear, that's pretty reasonable for a 2brm property.

I don't have to pay out for a tank of oil. I don't have to worry about the k****r stealing my oil. I don't have a naked flame anywhere in the house. I don't have stand-alone heaters to be falling over.

Actually, there's one thing I don't like, and that's not having gas for cooking. If I could have that, then I'd live with gas heating. But AFAIK there are big areas on Ireland that don't have it, so I put up with it.

I use bottled gas for cooking. Easy enough and i thus pay as i use.

runawaybishop

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I'm sure we mean the same thing. Should we settle on "worsen"?

Agreed Electricity usage will worsen a BER.

Idbatterim wrote: »

if its just a 2 bed, could you not just put an electric rad in the two bedrooms and living area? Just turn on and off as needs be. Or have them on a timer. Many now will have thermostat built in...

Those electric rads are even more expensive than storage heaters normally, they are the equivalent of using the boost button on a storage heater.

Electricity is around 2-3 times more expensive than gas for heating purposes. The reason storage and electric rads are put in by builders is they are far cheaper systems than an oil or gas boiler to install. They don't care that people have to pay through the nose to run them.

Henry Ford III

I have 3 x storage heaters with individual room thermostats, and a solid fuel stove.

By setting the storage heaters to 15 degrees for overnight cheap rate charging, and topping up the heating with the stove in the evenings it's pretty reasonable overall.

3 other things:

1/. Shop around for your electricity. Play one off against the other.

2/. Invest in energy efficiency - insulation etc. I'm looking at solar water heating currently.

3/. Never, ever use the boost button on the storage heaters. That eats juice.

Mrs OBumble

lexluthor wrote: »

Guys thank you so much for the feedback, much appreciated. For an utter dummy like myself when it comes to DIY, I think I'm going to pass given the complexity in operating them which is evident form some other threads as well! Might as well just hold on and wait for a regular gas heated apartment.

There is no DIY involved. Just an input and output knob to mainipulate as required.

If someone is smart enough to use boards, they are smart enough to operate storage headers.

ted1

D2 isn't great nut its probably the national average of even higher.

Old style storage heaters were a pin in the arse to use, however they have moved on and are not nearly as bad.

you could easily replace the ones that in situ with a modern one like the Dimplex Quamtmn http://www.dimplex.co.uk/products/domestic_heating/installed_heating/quantum_energy_system/features.htm

i certainly wouldn't be put off by storage heaters.also you in an apartment. if there are people above and below and beside you. you won't be to cold.

as for any external wall, just get someone in to line it with some insulated plasterboard. shouldn't be more than a thousand to do just the internal side of the external walls.