new ICBF Proofs

tanko

Kovu wrote: »

I forget who it was that told me but the s is because the supply is limited. I'm on the mobile so can't search but it was explained in this thread about a polled ch bull I asked about.
Kjb is on my never again list. Cow calved at 307 days, calf still not up. I expect his figures may get a drastic overhaul in a bit.

Big bull calf? Did you have to help her much. It's a real pity his gestation can be so long. If heifers off him have some milk then he'll be a good all round bull.

bogman_bass

Kovu wrote: »

I forget who it was that told me but the s is because the supply is limited. I'm on the mobile so can't search but it was explained in this thread about a polled ch bull I asked about.
.

go to page 34
https://issuu.com/herdplus/docs/journal_body

tanko

That doesn't explain why a bull like Lisnacrann Sunnyboy S1624 whose straws have been available for farmers to buy and for Bova technicians to use on farms (i assume) isn't on the active bull list.

Bulls with an F code that have semen collected on farm, can only have the straws used on the farm where they were collected in this country afaik.
Yet on this farming life the Limousin breeder in Scotland had semen off his own bull collected on his farm and said he was going to sell straws to other farmers. Are the rules for this different in Ireland?

Kovu

tanko wrote: »

That doesn't explain why a bull like Lisnacrann Sunnyboy S1624 whose straws have been available for farmers to buy and for Bova technicians to use on farms (i assume) isn't on the active bull list.

Bulls with an F code that have semen collected on farm, can only have the straws used on the farm where they were collected in this country afaik.
Yet on this farming life the Limousin breeder in Scotland had semen off his own bull collected on his farm and said he was going to sell straws to other farmers. Are the rules for this different in Ireland?

Is Lisnacrann Sunnyboy fully owned by Bova? Or maybe the fact that he's an ET bull marks him as 'different'.
Maybe this is why his photo was so hard to find
I actually have no idea what they're at. Seriously pee'd off today at that bull.

bogman_bass

tanko wrote: »

That doesn't explain why a bull like Lisnacrann Sunnyboy S1624 whose straws have been available for farmers to buy and for Bova technicians to use on farms (i assume) isn't on the active bull list.

Bulls with an F code that have semen collected on farm, can only have the straws used on the farm where they were collected in this country afaik.
Yet on this farming life the Limousin breeder in Scotland had semen off his own bull collected on his farm and said he was going to sell straws to other farmers. Are the rules for this different in Ireland?

are you sure they were being collected on farm and that he wasn't sending him into a stud to be collected?

blue5000

bogman_bass wrote: »

are you sure they were being collected on farm and that he wasn't sending him into a stud to be collected?

Certainly looked that way, the technician was doing everything out of the back of his car, could well be different rules. I think if a bull here was vaccinated for IBR he can't be used for ai.

bogman_bass

blue5000 wrote: »

Certainly looked that way, the technician was doing everything out of the back of his car, could well be different rules. I think if a bull here was vaccinated for IBR he can't be used for ai.

That's correct. Technically you can sell IBR positive semen in the UK

RD10

Anyone know when the new bull proofs are out??

patsy_mccabe

RD10 wrote: »

Anyone know when the new bull proofs are out??

2nd Run
12-Jun-2016 Last Date for Data to be recorded
19 Jul 2016 Interbull Submission Date
9 Aug 2016 Interbull Release Date
23 Aug 2016 Official Publication of AI Sire Excel File(s)
11 Sep 2016 Bull Search, Active Bull Lists and Herd Profiles available on ICBF website

http://www.icbf.com/?page_id=208

p dogg

Does anyone know where abouts I could find the latest proofs in the excel format due out today. Thanks in advance

bogman_bass

http://www.icbf.com/?page_id=198

if and when they come out.

croot

ICBF have them up now.

Time to see how many of mine have dropped on this one.....

Farrell

croot wrote: »

ICBF have them up now.

Time to see how many of mine have dropped on this one.....

Mine aren't updated & neither are some of the Bulls I checked.

patsy_mccabe

Limited Beef data up. They say to wait a few days for the full data.

http://www.icbf.com/?page_id=200

croot

Farrell wrote: »

Mine aren't updated & neither are some of the Bulls I checked.

Its an excel sheet with the updated figures. You just need to find the bull you want in the sheet.

Quick look at some of my replacements

ZLL is down from 269 to 195
ZAG is up from 125 to 184
BZB is down from 196 to 161
FSZ is up from 91 to 102
LGL is up from 26 to 47
GJB is up from 109 to 154
SBU is up from 141 to 153

and finally APZ is back baby

from 44 to 119

Lady Haywire

croot wrote: »

Its an excel sheet with the updated figures. You just need to find the bull you want in the sheet.

Quick look at some of my replacements

ZLL is down from 269 to 195
ZAG is up from 125 to 184
BZB is down from 196 to 161
FSZ is up from 91 to 102
LGL is up from 26 to 47
GJB is up from 109 to 154
SBU is up from 141 to 153

and finally APZ is back baby

from 44 to 119

APZ has jumped how much?! He had something like 90% reliability. Did they find a set of tits on him that grew overnight???

Farrell

Lady Haywire wrote: »

APZ has jumped how much?! He had something like 90% reliability. Did they find a set of tits on him that grew overnight???

Wonder has the genomic testing been a factor

Lady Haywire

Farrell wrote: »

Wonder has the genomic testing been a factor

But it shouldn't have such a huge impact,I'll bet there were men who sold heifers from APZ whose ratings weren't high enough for what they needed. Now the animals are gone and their stars are high enough. It's a load of codswallop.

croot

Lady Haywire wrote: »

But it shouldn't have such a huge impact,I'll bet there were men who sold heifers from APZ whose ratings weren't high enough for what they needed. Now the animals are gone and their stars are high enough. It's a load of codswallop.

Me being one. I sold three APZ heifers and only kept one cause her mother was a great cow. They were down as low as 1 this time last year. I wouldn't have sold them if I thought they'd come back up. Plus they were only 1 star when sold but would be 5 star again.

Lady Haywire

croot wrote: »

Me being one. I sold three APZ heifers and only kept one cause her mother was a great cow. They were down as low as 1 this time last year. I wouldn't have sold them if I thought they'd come back up. Plus they were only 1 star when sold but would be 5 star again.

I think Patsy_mccabe had a few of them as well, can't remember for sure who it was. But they were giving off about APZ being paraded as the next best thing, and the was for the first season or two, then his stars plummeted.
How the hell can we plan a strategic breeding programme to keep in line with the rules when the bulls are becoming more and more like lucky dips.

tanko

I have a lovely looking 16 month old APZ heifer off an NSQ cow. She's stone mad, the first boardsie here with a grand can have her:D

yewtree

Lady Haywire wrote: »

I think Patsy_mccabe had a few of them as well, can't remember for sure who it was. But they were giving off about APZ being paraded as the next best thing, and the was for the first season or two, then his stars plummeted.
How the hell can we plan a strategic breeding programme to keep in line with the rules when the bulls are becoming more and more like lucky dips.

Don't know much about the scheme but if you were using a Team of Bulls would it not reduce the risk of this happening.
Have used dairy Bulls before and their figures have fallen but when used as part of 5/6 Bulls their daughters don't have a massive effect on whole herd

Bellview

croot wrote: »

Lady Haywire wrote: »

But it shouldn't have such a huge impact,I'll bet there were men who sold heifers from APZ whose ratings weren't high enough for what they needed. Now the animals are gone and their stars are high enough. It's a load of codswallop.

Me being one. I sold three APZ heifers and only kept one cause her mother was a great cow. They were down as low as 1 this time last year. I wouldn't have sold them if I thought they'd come back up. Plus they were only 1 star when sold but would be 5 star again.

the star debate is always the same here.. they go up and down like Yo Yo's. I have ignored stars when holding cattle just picking the cow families that i know work and removing daughters of even 5 stars because i know they will be rubbish.

i was reviewing the angus ones and CYI was a bull who also a 5 star then went to 1 starish.. now he is back to 78 for replacement..

what i find maddening is ICBF were leaking stories on pedigree breeders through IFJ not being credible etc etc while the ICBF issue stars that move up and down every cycle and they feel they are credible

Lady Haywire

yewtree wrote: »

Don't know much about the scheme but if you were using a Team of Bulls would it not reduce the risk of this happening.
Have used dairy Bulls before and their figures have fallen but when used as part of 5/6 Bulls their daughters don't have a massive effect on whole herd

Certainly but you must take into account that a lot of herds in this scheme are small, less than 20 cows in a lot of cases. If only half of those are 4 star you want to be breeding your replacements off those to maximize the chances of having a heifer suitable for the scheme stars-wise. So out of ten calves, you might get five heifers, if those bulls were to drop as drastically as some bulls have in the concurrent years (looking at you APZ) then you're screwed.

The cynic in me is picturing some sort of Trump like figure, cackling manically while shooting darts at a board with pictures of bulls on it :pac:

patsy_mccabe

Lady Haywire wrote: »

I think Patsy_mccabe had a few of them as well, can't remember for sure who it was. But they were giving off about APZ being paraded as the next best thing, and the was for the first season or two, then his stars plummeted.
How the hell can we plan a strategic breeding programme to keep in line with the rules when the bulls are becoming more and more like lucky dips.

Ya, I had a few here. Had one bull at 400Kgs at 9 months or so. Kept one heifer as she is exceptionally quiet. Went in calf on first straw too.
Maternal Calving figures are crazy though fro APZ. 14.7% (95% Rel) :eek:. Must be something seriously wrong internally there. Pelvic opening tiny I'd say.

croot

yewtree wrote: »

Don't know much about the scheme but if you were using a Team of Bulls would it not reduce the risk of this happening.
Have used dairy Bulls before and their figures have fallen but when used as part of 5/6 Bulls their daughters don't have a massive effect on whole herd

I do use a team of bulls. I generally use about 10 different bulls each year. The problem is that with beef bulls by the time they are over 95% proven they sometimes are no longer available.

The main gripe people have is that they put in targets that have to be met but keep changing the rules so to speak. I had 4 APZ heifers this time last year with a 1 star rating so logically I sold some of them. Now they would be 5 star. How can you plan if within a year everything changes so drastically. Out of 10 replacements heifers I have this year 8 are 4 or 5 stars but by next year none of them might be depending on how they decide to re-interpret the data.

TPF2012

patsy_mccabe wrote:

Ya, I had a few here. Had one bull at 400Kgs at 9 months or so. Kept one heifer as she is exceptionally quiet. Went in calf on first straw too. Maternal Calving figures are crazy though fro APZ. 14.7% (95% Rel) . Must be something seriously wrong internally there. Pelvic opening tiny I'd say.

Thought I heard that APZ daughters were hitting puberty early and a high percentage of them were calving at 2 years compared to a higher age of first calving for other bulls. Hence there is a high maternal calving difficulty on the younger heifers. I could be way wrong on that info though.

charolais0153

I'm sure mad4simmental would disagree with me if he was here but I think lots of simmentals can be bad calvers. Had a. COw by Hillcrest king who had to be assisted every time albeit she had two sets of twins. Anybody else scan twins , have a set coming out of one of my smaller cows and don't know what to do

TPF2012

TPF2012 wrote:

Thought I heard that APZ daughters were hitting puberty early and a high percentage of them were calving at 2 years compared to a higher age of first calving for other bulls. Hence there is a high maternal calving difficulty on the younger heifers. I could be way wrong on that info though.

Just checked the Age 1st Calving. APZ is the 5th youngest out of every bull on that list with -58.6 day for first calving. Could explain the maternal calving?

Lady Haywire

charolais0153 wrote: »

I'm sure mad4simmental would disagree with me if he was here but I think lots of simmentals can be bad calves. Had a. Ow by Hillcrest king who had to be assisted every time Alberta t she had two sets of twins. Anybody else scan twins , have a set coming out of one of my smaller cows and don't know what to do

You don't know what to do, what d'ya mean, as in sell her or abort her??
Smaller cow usually means smaller twins or will calve early so just give her extra ration and minerals if you use the powder.