new ICBF Proofs

croot · 07-09-2017 2:05pm

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Don't know ....
I'd noticed on the excel, bulls who's progeny are making €3+/kg are low rated while bulls whose progeny preform less have higher terminal value.
My fear is bulls & straws are being purchased based on stars which could mean the suckler progeny will not be of suitable for shipping

I completely agree with this.

They saw a genuine problem which was less maternal sucklers and the thought up a solution which is the star system and penalties if you don't meet the criteria.

The result: farming by numbers with everyone chasing higher indexes which will probably wipe out the export market because of the criteria ICBF are using.

Who benefits? It wont be the suckler farmer if we lose the export market.

I have always thought the scheme is critically flawed. It would have made more sense if it was a yearly bonus scheme where if you meet the targets you get paid but no payment if you don't.

Then it couldn't come to the stage where after 5 years you could owe €000's back because you have less 5 * cows in the herd due to a button being clicked and the indexes changing in the final year of the scheme.

croot · 07-09-2017 2:07pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

The stars are based on profit not the selling price of the weanlings. High priced weanlings are not always the most profitable.

How is this determined?

No one has asked me to see how much profit each animal has generated and in my herd high priced weanlings ARE the most profitable.

patsy_mccabe · 07-09-2017 4:49pm

croot wrote: »

How is this determined?

No one has asked me to see how much profit each animal has generated and in my herd high priced weanlings ARE the most profitable.

They don't have to ask you. They have access to all data from the mart and factories.

Replacement Index;
https://www.icbf.com/wp/?p=3811

I think you are kinda missing the point. If weanlings that have high Maternal Index stars are not export quality, that is because they have been bred to produce good suckler cows, having milk, fertility etc.
If you want animals to make the boat, you can still use BB type bulls on these cows.

The man in red and black · 07-09-2017 7:07pm

Bellview wrote: »

Thanks but I already do this and have used enough to benchmark the calves. I have used some 5 star ai bulls..and the stock bulls are more docile and better quality than the ai as they all get same treatment

That's a fair point. I suppose the only hope there is that over time, with increasing data and the weanling docility scores etc, the bulls will get credit for this.

Donegalforever · 07-09-2017 8:07pm

I have a heifer calf out of FTY - Lennon Frosty
It came along, at two weeks old, as Calf at foot with AAx cow.

It has nice shape and would normally make me interested in keeping it for breeding.
The only problem is it is "Highly Strung", or if you like not docile.

Having had a number of Mad Limousin Cow, I would not like another.
I will decide its fate within the next month but at the moment I think it will be heading for the Mart.

Donegalforever · 07-09-2017 8:15pm

Has anyone had a calf from Limousin Bull ZAG ?

I have a topper of a heifer calf out of that bull. It was mahogany colour when born but is now black.

It is very muscular and despite the ICBF figures I am concerned that it might be a difficult calver.

It is out of a Black Limousin X heifer.

If anyone has any information I would be grateful.

croot · 07-09-2017 8:55pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

They don't have to ask you. They have access to all data from the mart and factories.

Replacement Index;
https://www.icbf.com/wp/?p=3811

I think you are kinda missing the point. If weanlings that have high Maternal Index stars are not export quality, that is because they have been bred to produce good suckler cows, having milk, fertility etc.
If you want animals to make the boat, you can still use BB type bulls on these cows.

I know. That's what I said. The law of unintended consequences is that most farmers are chasing indexes to make sure they aren't penalised in 2019 and this means less quality calves for export. Exporters won't come to Ireland to source stock if all that's available is maternal type weanlings

Hard Knocks · 07-09-2017 8:59pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

They don't have to ask you. They have access to all data from the mart and factories.

Replacement Index;
https://www.icbf.com/wp/?p=3811

I think you are kinda missing the point. If weanlings that have high Maternal Index stars are not export quality, that is because they have been bred to produce good suckler cows, having milk, fertility etc.
If you want animals to make the boat, you can still use BB type bulls on these cows.

The exporters are looking for muscled CH & LM, so if we want top price are we aswell to work to spec?

I want to breed bulls for specific traits, but I can't do that if the stars aren't telling the full story.

I understand that some bulls are suited did Maternal, others early maturity & others finishing, but the breeders need the full story at mating time (if AI) because the results from that decision will be 18 months later

50HX · 07-09-2017 9:21pm

Donegalforever wrote: »

Has anyone had a calf from Limousin Bull ZAG ?

I have a topper of a heifer calf out of that bull. It was mahogany colour when born but is now black.

It is very muscular and despite the ICBF figures I am concerned that it might be a difficult calver.

It is out of a Black Limousin X heifer.

If anyone has any information I would be grateful.

have the exact same here, born in jan, going by the size of her i'll be AI'ng her in jan/feb

she has a replacement of 160...regardless of the stars she has lovely shape to her

patsy_mccabe · 07-09-2017 9:30pm

croot wrote: »

I know. That's what I said. The law of unintended consequences is that most farmers are chasing indexes to make sure they aren't penalised in 2019 and this means less quality calves for export. Exporters won't come to Ireland to source stock if all that's available is maternal type weanlings

Ya, there's 2 sides to it, if you like. A - The cost of producing the calf and B - What you get for the calf. Your profit is B minus A.

By having a good cow (good maternal) and using a good bull on her (good terminal) and you increase your profit. The bull can be what you like, BB or Char. Breed the good cow first and in the years to come, you can breed your good weanlings.

Bellview · 07-09-2017 10:22pm

The man in red and black wrote:

That's a fair point. I suppose the only hope there is that over time, with increasing data and the weanling docility scores etc, the bulls will get credit for this.

I buy you a few points if that ever happens. I have a nice few daughters in the herd and coming into the herd so will not be changing them soon.
I have a nice offer from Blue to sort out the grant..

patsy_mccabe · 08-09-2017 9:27am

Donegalforever wrote: »

I have a heifer calf out of FTY - Lennon Frosty
It came along, at two weeks old, as Calf at foot with AAx cow.

It has nice shape and would normally make me interested in keeping it for breeding.
The only problem is it is "Highly Strung", or if you like not docile.

Having had a number of Mad Limousin Cow, I would not like another.
I will decide its fate within the next month but at the moment I think it will be heading for the Mart.

Donegalforever wrote: »

Has anyone had a calf from Limousin Bull ZAG ?

I have a topper of a heifer calf out of that bull. It was mahogany colour when born but is now black.

It is very muscular and despite the ICBF figures I am concerned that it might be a difficult calver.

It is out of a Black Limousin X heifer.

If anyone has any information I would be grateful.

I'd say you're right on both counts. FTY calves are stone mad, from what I hear. All goes back to Cerberus in his back breeding. Not the quietest of bulls. Had a PB Cerberus heifer here and she was dangerous, to put it mildly.

Have a ZAG heifer here too. Kinda undecided to keep her or not. She is €141 on Replacement and very growth. But she's a little flightly and her tail head is up a little. One of my pet hates.

Seanhorse91 · 08-09-2017 4:28pm

I've a few cows in the herd that we bought in as bucket calves. All doing well and bringing great calves. Only joined the herdplus thing a month or 2 back on suddenly I find out that their fathers weren't recorded just their breed. So I've no star ratings for these cows now and therefore their daughters in the herd would have a low rating because of it. Any idea what I should do? Try ring up the original breeders of the animals and see if they have it in record?
Actually If I genotyped their daughters would they be able to find out their grandsire?
Thanks in advance!

blue5000 · 08-09-2017 5:39pm

Seanhorse91 wrote: »

I've a few cows in the herd that we bought in as bucket calves. All doing well and bringing great calves. Only joined the herdplus thing a month or 2 back on suddenly I find out that their fathers weren't recorded just their breed. So I've no star ratings for these cows now and therefore their daughters in the herd would have a low rating because of it. Any idea what I should do? Try ring up the original breeders of the animals and see if they have it in record?
Actually If I genotyped their daughters would they be able to find out their grandsire?
Thanks in advance!

Original breeder first, name and address should be on the blue card. Genotype them if that fails, but will only work if their sires were genotyped, eg. they pure bred or ai bulls.

croot · 08-09-2017 9:46pm

Donegalforever wrote: »

Has anyone had a calf from Limousin Bull ZAG ?

I have a topper of a heifer calf out of that bull. It was mahogany colour when born but is now black.

It is very muscular and despite the ICBF figures I am concerned that it might be a difficult calver.

It is out of a Black Limousin X heifer.

If anyone has any information I would be grateful.

This is a ZAG heifer of mine. 23 months and due to calf in November. Muscley alright but with good width. I have used ZAG a lot but this will be my first ZAG heifer to calf.

Seanhorse91 · 12-09-2017 1:51pm

Thanks very much blue5000 I'll get in to that this week so👍

Lady Haywire · 12-09-2017 6:51pm

Seanhorse91 wrote: »

Thanks very much blue5000 I'll get in to that this week so👍

If you're part of ICBF I found it easy to open one tab with the 'basic herd' and then open another tab you can copy & paste into.
Wouldn't you know it, the scrawniest heifers calf off a saler is the highest we have :rolleyes:

GiantPencil · 09-01-2018 4:55pm

Next release is tomorrow folks...

wiggy123 · 09-01-2018 5:23pm

excitement

Bellview · 09-01-2018 11:16pm

Get ready for the wild swings again

patsy_mccabe · 10-01-2018 12:04am

Brace yourself Brigid !!!!!!!!!!

tanko · 10-01-2018 6:38pm

They're out!!!!

Hard Knocks · 10-01-2018 6:56pm

tanko wrote: »

They're out!!!!

You’re on the ball, must be just up

GiantPencil · 10-01-2018 7:29pm

No huge movements going on from what I can see. ZAG is now positive for Milk at .9kg

patsy_mccabe · 10-01-2018 7:36pm

Ya, ZAG now €191 on replacement.

tanko · 10-01-2018 7:51pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Ya, ZAG now €191 on replacement.

Is the poor devil still alive????

I'd say him and Fiston must be wrecked!!!!

Its hard for any part time farmer to look past those two.

charolais0153 · 10-01-2018 7:57pm

tanko wrote: »

Is the poor devil still alive????

I'd say him and Fiston must be wrecked!!!!

Its hard for any part time farmer to look past those two.

They both breed small cattle though

tanko · 10-01-2018 8:01pm

charolais0153 wrote: »

They both breed small cattle though

They're big enough for heavy land anyway.

charolais0153 · 10-01-2018 8:03pm

tanko wrote: »

They're big enough for heavy land anyway.

Small cows and big bulls are a much better fit dont u think?

Lady Haywire · 10-01-2018 8:05pm

charolais0153 wrote: »

Small cows and big bulls are a much better fit dont u think?

As long as the big bulls calves can fit out of the small cow :pac:

new ICBF Proofs

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