new ICBF Proofs

charolais0153

Lady Haywire wrote: »

As long as the big bulls calves can fit out of the small cow :pac:

Have used bbq,lzf,cwi to great effect on lower cows the past few years.
I wouldnt be afraid to use a hard calfing bull on a cow if she was on 3rd calving even if she was a smaller type

Hard Knocks

charolais0153 wrote: »

Have used bbq,lzf,cwi to great effect on lower cows the past few years.
I wouldnt be afraid to use a hard calfing bull on a cow if she was on 3rd calving even if she was a smaller type

Does LZF bring height, might have work for him so

pure breed

Hard Knocks wrote:

Does LZF bring height, might have work for him so

Have 4 Bull calves of him in Autumn definitely have more height then their Fiston comrades who are better for shape though off our cows anyway.

Lady Haywire

charolais0153 wrote: »

Have used bbq,lzf,cwi to great effect on lower cows the past few years.
I wouldnt be afraid to use a hard calfing bull on a cow if she was on 3rd calving even if she was a smaller type

I'd count lzf & cwi as easy calvers, would be happy enough to put them on heifers. They're both 5.7%. Plus wasn't BBQ used a lot by dairy men as he dropped them small? Remember people on here putting him on heifers too.

Anything over 10% is hard calved imo and if you're using them you want to be prepared for issues as you're taking the chance.

charolais0153

Lady Haywire wrote: »

I'd count lzf & cwi as easy calvers, would be happy enough to put them on heifers. They're both 5.7%. Plus wasn't BBQ used a lot by dairy men as he dropped them small? Remember people on here putting him on heifers too.

Anything over 10% is hard calved imo and if you're using them you want to be prepared for issues as you're taking the chance.

Ya just saying theres easy calving bulls with height. Have used crossmolina euro and jupiter on 3rd calvers. Put tvr on a good square cow 3rd calver also

Lady Haywire

charolais0153 wrote: »

Ya just saying theres easy calving bulls with height. Have used crossmolina euro and jupiter on 3rd calvers. Put tvr on a good square cow 3rd calver also

Aye I know what you're saying alright. I've Jupiter on two second calving limos so be interesting to see how they fair. One of them only calved at 21 months last April and is due this year in March so she'll have two calves (hopefully) under her belt before she hits 3

Mac Taylor

Checking my stars there just now.....3 PBR Lim replacement heifers which were less than a year ago 3,4 & 5 star are now all 3 star.

Out of Gringo, Dancer and KJB.

Disappointed by KJB.

Have two Brigadeer cows which were both 5* now one has dropped to 3*

I cant keep up with this, it like building a house with a sand foundation...:mad:

charolais0153

Mac Taylor wrote: »

Checking my stars there just now.....3 PBR Lim replacement heifers which were less than a year ago 3,4 & 5 star are now all 3 star.

Out of Gringo, Dancer and KJB.

Disappointed by KJB.

Have two Brigadeer cows which were both 5* now one has dropped to 3*

I cant keep up with this, it like building a house with a sand foundation...:mad:

Gringo is a terminal bull so u cantbe too disappointed.

patsy_mccabe

I see OKH has gone from 5 to 4, to 1,....... and now 3 Stars for Terminal within breed. Have 2 bulls by him so can't complain.

Mac Taylor

charolais0153 wrote: »

Gringo is a terminal bull so u cantbe too disappointed.

Agreed no issue, she’s out of a good cow so I said I give her a chance, similar with dancer, what’s peeing me off is her tonko mother who while still 5 star has dropped to bottom of the 5* scale

bogman_bass

3 cows dropped €15 or more in their index but each of them were carried over from the spring herd to the autumn so I understand why

charolais0153

Looking through active bull list and only 2 simmentals and salers are in the top 50 for maternal calving difficulty while they dominate the stars?

patsy_mccabe

No sign of the Excel files up yet. They're normally well up in advance of the Bull Search function.

Hard Knocks

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

No sign of the Excel files up yet. They're normally well up in advance of the Bull Search function.

Snap just thinking that too

Just gave a few bulls a look on gestation
The lower the PTA does not always mean less days

blue5000

Mac Taylor wrote: »

Checking my stars there just now.....3 PBR Lim replacement heifers which were less than a year ago 3,4 & 5 star are now all 3 star.

Out of Gringo, Dancer and KJB.

Disappointed by KJB.

Have two Brigadeer cows which were both 5* now one has dropped to 3*

I cant keep up with this, it like building a house with a sand foundation...:mad:

You need to check reliability too. Don't forget stars can go up as well, hang in there.

https://webapp.icbf.com/v2/app/bull-search/view/841131512 Had a quick look there, it looks like daughter calving ability might be part of the problem.

Bellview

I have given up on the stars as it screws completely the stock bull especially when using genetics that are not ai.
My last stock bull his stars are falling away despite being one of thr best i ever owned. The bull is now in another pedigree herd as he left his mark in my spot ...I have 50 percent of herd now his daughters and the new lad is delighted with him also as he throws super consistent calves etc...
I have a cow that just had her 12th calf of which only 5 were slaughtered 2 graded u 1 graded r and 2 graded o and she is a one star...as they cattle are pedigree the cattle were aged when slaughtered ...she showing at 30...but she will be staying no matter what and do are her daughters as they breeding well also.
I wish icbf would try to figure the stars out and focus on this as every 3 months icbf have a new shiney toy that they publish and move to the next one ie C.O.W. ...taste genes etc

wiggy123

just checked I have a heifer calf born December-with no figures(stars) at all.. checked last week..she was 5 star... what the f...

patsy_mccabe

It's understandable though why AI bulls have such high reliabilities, as they are used across a lot of herds and so all the different variable effects like level of feeding, land type, cow type etc cancel each other out.

My bugbear is the fact that bulls with serious faults can still be 5 Star. Say for example bulls in the bottom 1% for milk and calving difficulty. ICBF should really highlight these faults when you look them up.

blue5000

Bellview wrote: »

I have given up on the stars as it screws completely the stock bull especially when using genetics that are not ai.
My last stock bull his stars are falling away despite being one of thr best i ever owned. The bull is now in another pedigree herd as he left his mark in my spot ...I have 50 percent of herd now his daughters and the new lad is delighted with him also as he throws super consistent calves etc...
I have a cow that just had her 12th calf of which only 5 were slaughtered 2 graded u 1 graded r and 2 graded o and she is a one star...as they cattle are pedigree the cattle were aged when slaughtered ...she showing at 30...but she will be staying no matter what and do are her daughters as they breeding well also.
I wish icbf would try to figure the stars out and focus on this as every 3 months icbf have a new shiney toy that they publish and move to the next one ie C.O.W. ...taste genes etc

I'm going to have to contradict you. My aubrac has jumped another 12 points, he's now better than his sire Biggest problem I have now is that it's going to be very hard to find a higher ebi stock bull to replace him.

The angus (Mogeely Joe son) has a few sons killed, all bar one grading R so far. Daughters calving soon.....is up 5 points as well

As for ICBF figuring out the stars, if they change the metrics it will skew everything that's been done so far.

I think a lot of it is just pure luck, and the mood you were in the day you go to buy a bull. I'm a gemini by the way:rolleyes:

wiggy123

emailed icbf there, said any stock born since October last year-will not have figures up yet, until tomorrow..
still running the process

Bellview

blue5000 wrote:

The angus (Mogeely Joe son) has a few sons killed, all bar one grading R so far. Daughters calving soon.....is up 5 points as well

Joe daughters doing well in pedigree side. At the elite sale a number of Joe daughters doing well.
My current bull has Joe in background and his first calves on ground and happy so far
Do you still have him

wiggy123

MLJ bred good stock.. with nice heads in my opinion

blue5000

Bellview wrote: »

Joe daughters doing well in pedigree side. At the elite sale a number of Joe daughters doing well.
My current bull has Joe in background and his first calves on ground and happy so far
Do you still have him

Yes, would be hoping to get a few more years out of him. I'm probably down 20kg a carcase, but it's the maternal side that I value.
Most suckler farmers I think buy a bull for terminal traits and use ai for replacements. But I do it the other way round, gives a consistency in the cows, rather than trying a bit of this and a bit of that and whatever is in the tank on the day to breed replacements. Makes it easier to keep track of pedigrees then when buying a new bull as well. If a bull I buy has a fault, lets say for example he is sickled I'd try and buy the next bull with a very straight leg to correct it. I think aubracs in general as a breed are not great on the feet, but the angus make up for it.

What else is in your bull's breeding, it's hardly ZFL anyway;)? Any chance of a PM there with his tag so I can do a bit of snooping.

Bellview

blue5000 wrote: »

Yes, would be hoping to get a few more years out of him. I'm probably down 20kg a carcase, but it's the maternal side that I value.
Most suckler farmers I think buy a bull for terminal traits and use ai for replacements. But I do it the other way round, gives a consistency in the cows, rather than trying a bit of this and a bit of that and whatever is in the tank on the day to breed replacements. Makes it easier to keep track of pedigrees then when buying a new bull as well. If a bull I buy has a fault, lets say for example he is sickled I'd try and buy the next bull with a very straight leg to correct it. I think aubracs in general as a breed are not great on the feet, but the angus make up for it.

What else is in your bull's breeding, it's hardly ZFL anyway;)? Any chance of a PM there with his tag so I can do a bit of snooping.

down with those Rossiters....enough of bad heads in angus than looking for more of them. will PM you both as new lad has loads of stars....he might keep me out of trouble with the genomic boyos:)

Bellview

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/beef-farm-profiles/the-french-connection-how-the-aubrac-breed-has-gone-from-zero-to-170-herds-in-the-last-20-years-in-ireland-36469235.html


nice piece on the Aubracs in Farming Indo. from reading different folks writing on pedigree over the past few years, my view is Martin Ryan is in a league of his own, very factual and seems to go to the trouble of doing research when writing on a breed... in my opinion he beats the lad in journal hands down

GiantPencil

Bellview wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/beef-farm-profiles/the-french-connection-how-the-aubrac-breed-has-gone-from-zero-to-170-herds-in-the-last-20-years-in-ireland-36469235.html


nice piece on the Aubracs in Farming Indo. from reading different folks writing on pedigree over the past few years, my view is Martin Ryan is in a league of his own, very factual and seems to go to the trouble of doing research when writing on a breed... in my opinion he beats the lad in journal hands down

Articles like this are pretty insightful but he wrote an article in the farming indo around Halloween giving out about the stars and citing that Saler bull Beguin as being a prime reason the stars are messed up saying he had less than 100 cattle in Ireland yet was #1 on replacement. If he had done his research he'd have seen that Beguin has loads of progeny in France and that info was imported to the Irish system. For a lad that sits on the ICBF board and is a big time breeder you'd assume he'd have know that right? An absolute nothing article that was only saying what the average joe soap is thinking without knowing the details. Saw the article shared on a lot of Facebook discussion groups praising him for it sure everyone goes quiet when you start giving them actual facts. 

Bellview

No harm folks challenge icbf on stars as we need to ensure robust debate as there are a lot of flaws in the stars but not having that debate here ..

wiggy123

loads of flaws... none been addressed, also pedigree societies have a lot of questions to answer also...

Bellview

wiggy123 wrote:

loads of flaws... none been addressed, also pedigree societies have a lot of questions to answer also...

What question for society as they are not involved in recording any data .

wiggy123

mean re pedigree business in general like.. stars wise mayb not-that's icbf