new ICBF Proofs

blue5000

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Gave them a call
It’s a recording program - whole herd, dna tags & weights.
Ideally a few weights through out the year, the farmer can diy
Commercial stock will only be weighed while PB stock will be scored & weighed on WHPR visit.
They will not be interfering in breeding program

So extra work for geno discount is that it?

Hard Knocks

blue5000 wrote: »

So extra work for geno discount is that it?

That ‘s about it
Sure the whole herd program is a cost to the farmer with benefits only to icbf
Had a bull on Bull finder with over 150 views & not 1 call

Bellview

Hard Knocks wrote: »

That ‘s about it
Sure the whole herd program is a cost to the farmer with benefits only to icbf
Had a bull on Bull finder with over 150 views & not 1 call

I know a few lads on the bull finder and the calls they received was a lad looking for a bargain. One interesting thing on bull finder though is you can see bulls weights who have really low weights.and they are still 45 star.. I have seen 18 month angus bulls and they were 450 kg .. begs question how are these bulls not dropped in stars... is there any consequence for bad numbers or is scheme just a money exercise with little benefits for the breeders or the breed covered

Hard Knocks

Bellview wrote: »

I know a few lads on the bull finder and the calls they received was a lad looking for a bargain. One interesting thing on bull finder though is you can see bulls weights who have really low weights.and they are still 45 star.. I have seen 18 month angus bulls and they were 450 kg .. begs question how are these bulls not dropped in stars... is there any consequence for bad numbers or is scheme just a money exercise with little benefits for the breeders or the breed covered

Think trying to justify the herdplus & scoring cost

hanifanze

Anyone have any calves from the lim bull from dovea kjb?

Lime Tree Farm

hanifanze wrote: »

Anyone have any calves from the lim bull from dovea kjb?

we have cow by kjb, she is my favourite, lovely appearance, and extremely quiet. She had her first heifer calf this year.

She lost her first bull calf, it was premature, she was probably bullied by another cow. She readily reared another calf.

tanko

hanifanze wrote: »

Anyone have any calves from the lim bull from dovea kjb?

Put him on some cows five years ago,he can breed a super heifer but there's problems with him. His gestation length is a joke, the worst of any bull i've ever used, ten months wouldn't be unusual, easy calved on cows tho.
Some of the calves off him stay small and don't grow enough.
Better choices out there i reckon.

patsy_mccabe

New proofs now up for September.

Bellview

Nov proofs available today.. some light reading for all ..

patsy_mccabe

I see the €38,00 Limousin bull Goldies Jackpot, now scores in the bottom 1% for functionality. He's also in the bottom 1% for calving. Dear, oh dear!!!!!!!

Simmental.

ICBF are providing separate calving difficulties for heifers and cows now

Bellview

Simmental. wrote: »

ICBF are providing separate calving difficulties for heifers and cows now

just reviewed the new calving % .. my initial thought is it will create crazy confusion at bull sales this year.. we have angus so now there is a beef cow metric, beef heifer metric, dairy cow metric and dairy heifer metric... and the same animal could range from 0.5% for beef cow to 7% for dairy heifer... instead of trying to keep metrics simple .. ICBF have really made this as complex to the point farmers will be completely confused in 2020... in my opinion whoever thought this was a great idea didn't spend much time farming

GiantPencil

Bellview wrote: »

just reviewed the new calving % .. my initial thought is it will create crazy confusion at bull sales this year.. we have angus so now there is a beef cow metric, beef heifer metric, dairy cow metric and dairy heifer metric... and the same animal could range from 0.5% for beef cow to 7% for dairy heifer... instead of trying to keep metrics simple .. ICBF have really made this as complex to the point farmers will be completely confused in 2020... in my opinion whoever thought this was a great idea didn't spend much time farming

I work in a data and analytical job so I love this new breakout but I agree that to the average farmer this is just going to confuse them. Would be great if ICBF did more presentation workshops where they explain the information especially thinks like the Milk figures and how to interpret the within herd stuff

patsy_mccabe

GiantPencil wrote: »

I work in a data and analytical job so I love this new breakout but I agree that to the average farmer this is just going to confuse them. Would be great if ICBF did more presentation workshops where they explain the information especially thinks like the Milk figures and how to interpret the within herd stuff

I have an Excel spreadsheet set-up to read the values automatically from ICBF for all my cows here. This new change throws it all up on a heap. :mad:

Bellview

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I have an Excel spreadsheet set-up to read the values automatically from ICBF for all my cows here. This new change throws it all up on a heap. :mad:

I took the nov proofs and focused on AI bulls only calving diff.. I will post a summary but bulls that were ie 2% calving diff in nov their beef and dairy calving diff are very different... lines up a lot of confusion at spring sales.. and I have rang icbf and they don’t have a dummies guide to how the new calving diff is associated to new ones.. as usual the farmers will have to try figure out the new metrics

blue5000

Bellview wrote: »

I took the nov proofs and focused on AI bulls only calving diff.. I will post a summary but bulls that were ie 2% calving diff in nov their beef and dairy calving diff are very different... lines up a lot of confusion at spring sales.. and I have rang icbf and they don’t have a dummies guide to how the new calving diff is associated to new ones.. as usual the farmers will have to try figure out the new metrics

Basil Lowman had an article in farmers weekly about daughters of easy calving bulls not having calving ability themselves, I must look it up and see if there's a connection.

dh1985

blue5000 wrote: »

Basil Lowman had an article in farmers weekly about daughters of easy calving bulls not having calving ability themselves, I must look it up and see if there's a connection.

It would be interesting to see a graphical representation for the top 10 AI terminal and maternal over the past 5 years to show some indicator or the level of accuracy these star figures actual are. See how the stars for certain bulls trends up or down.
One bull that comes to mind is HCA. He was the number one or damn near number one replacement bull 4 to 5 years back. Hes two star today. I had calves off him out of good cows. Narrow rags of things.
They seem to keep changing/adjusting the metrics and how things are calculated. I wonder if we are any closer now than five years ago to accurate results.

Mac Taylor

dh1985 wrote: »

It would be interesting to see a graphical representation for the top 10 AI terminal and maternal over the past 5 years to show some indicator or the level of accuracy these star figures actual are. See how the stars for certain bulls trends up or down.
One bull that comes to mind is HCA. He was the number one or damn near number one replacement bull 4 to 5 years back. Hes two star today. I had calves off him out of good cows. Narrow rags of things.
They seem to keep changing/adjusting the metrics and how things are calculated. I wonder if we are any closer now than five years ago to accurate results.

With regards hca, I’ve 5 off him off dairy crosses and while the cows themselves are average I’m happy enough with their offspring. I’ve only calved one of their offspring to date and no issues, I’ve a few more this year so we’ll see.

grassroot1

blue5000 wrote: »

Basil Lowman had an article in farmers weekly about daughters of easy calving bulls not having calving ability themselves, I must look it up and see if there's a connection.

That article was a while ago;I think there might have been something about selecting for higher fat score too as an aid to overwintering suckler cows?

TPF2012

https://www.icbf.com/wp/?p=15061&utm_content=buffer0751f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer&fbclid=IwAR3ue7m3MtkLkg6JZ9fuKmII-i4Zz10wjSKOeDgSOtOq7Vp6s97hiwwpSLQ

Conversion chart for old figures to latest incarnation.

Bellview

TPF2012 wrote: »

https://www.icbf.com/wp/?p=15061&utm_content=buffer0751f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer&fbclid=IwAR3ue7m3MtkLkg6JZ9fuKmII-i4Zz10wjSKOeDgSOtOq7Vp6s97hiwwpSLQ

Conversion chart for old figures to latest incarnation.

thanks this is helpful - the ranges though are massive ie from 0.1% to 2.4% old calving difficulty, this covers a wide range in the old metric.

I have reviewed a numebr of the AI bulls comparing the Nov measure & new Jan measures.
I have taken Angus at 0.3% in November and using the beef heifer metric we now have CD% of between 1.67% to 4.12%... 2 months ago these same bulls were super easy... with ranges like this i can see farmers being rightly confused.. in old days a bull of less that 2% CD was easy.. now we have to learn a new metric

Sugarbowl

Does anyone know where you can see on ICBF how many calves a bull has? I used to be able to see it before but can’t put my finger on where it was? Thanks

patsy_mccabe

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Does anyone know where you can see on ICBF how many calves a bull has? I used to be able to see it before but can’t put my finger on where it was? Thanks

Click the tab EVALUATION HISTORY on the first page and go down to the bottom. They only have the new totals there now for the 2 types of calving. The old calving numbers are not shown.

For example for Feb 2020, the bull ZAG has 14,499 calvings to heifers and 25,025 calvings to cows.

Sugarbowl

Thanks Patsy - does this work on the ICBF app on the phone? I don’t see it...

patsy_mccabe

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Thanks Patsy - does this work on the ICBF app on the phone? I don’t see it...

Ya, the TAB is called 'PREV EVAL' under 'MORE' on the first page.

Sugarbowl

Got it there now cheers for that

patsy_mccabe

March poofs up now.

Lady Haywire

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

March poofs up now.

Is it all about Benji :pac:

GiantPencil

Has the Calving tab always been there or is it new with this update? Always wondered when I was going to see that info and was I just wasting my time weighing and taking measurements of calves. Nice to see the information being displayed now

patsy_mccabe

GiantPencil wrote: »

Has the Calving tab always been there or is it new with this update? Always wondered when I was going to see that info and was I just wasting my time weighing and taking measurements of calves. Nice to see the information being displayed now

That's new alright. A whole lot of new information in there.
Gestation in days is in there.