Cam in our office!?

PLUG71

Hi,

Here is our issue that myself and fellow work mates find ourselves in.

We work in an office doing 12 hour shifts days and nights.

One of our duties is to receive the clients visitors / contractors onto the premises, signing them in etc etc.

This week the client has installed a dome camera in the office saying that the purpose of said cam is to monitor visitors / contractors whilst being issued with the correct passes to allow them access into the site.

Our problem is that the cam is pointed out our desk / computer and ourselves.


It is not pointed at the area in which visitors / contractors are received in any way or form!

Is this a breach of privacy?
Is this illegal in any way?

Any advise you could give or official links would be much appreciated as we are unsure where we stand.

Mods :- Please move if I have posted in the wrong forum.

Nody

Well they can point it anywhere but as they announced what's it suppose for it can not be used for anything else (for example if you were stealing office materials it would not be valid evidence if memory serves).

bbam

As long as you were aware of it's presence then it's allowed.

Doom

Ask for the policy on the data been collected and for what purposes it will be used.

Doom

Have a look around this site, good info.

http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Case-Studies-2012/1354.htm#8

LegacyUser

Same thing in the company I work for.

It's horrible to be honest as I constantly feel like I'm being watched

My boss told me one day that the camera is there for the purposes of the front door - fine.

But they totally abuse the system daily. I get calls all day saying "why is X standing there" and "what is X doing with that folder" etc etc etc

It goes on all the time, so to me, it genuinely looks like they are just using the cameras to monitor staff members. Cameras are pointed at all desks, not just the front door.

It's awful. Really feel on edge all the time

I used to work in a place like this. They had a camera on the shop floor recording sound too. On one occasion I was talking to one of my colleagues while waiting for a virus scan to complete and we got a phone call from the manager's wife telling us to get back to work!

Needless to say, I left after a little over two weeks. Didn't regret it one bit because I got another job a month later and stayed there for over 5 years. I know the job situation nowadays is very different though.

Doom

People, that kind of monitoring is illegal, report them.

hfallada

Doom wrote: »

People, that kind of monitoring is illegal, report them.

Except we have the weakest data protection laws in Europe and some of the poorest enforcement of them. IT are locating in Ireland, as data protection is the bare minimum.

tayto lover

Buy a pellet-gun and riddle the feckin' thing from behind some cover or put tippex over the lens.
Nobody could work under that type of pressure.

Gatling

tayto lover wrote: »

Buy a pellet-gun and riddle the feckin' thing from behind some cover or put tippex over the lens.
Nobody could work under that type of pressure.

And find yourself in a hell of a lot of trouble ,

Brandishing a firearm in a public place ,

Brandishing a RIF ( realistic imitation firearm ) in a public place ,

Criminal damage

Expect a prison sentence

Seriously idiotic advice

tayto lover

Gatling wrote: »

And find yourself in a hell of a lot of trouble ,

Brandishing a firearm in a public place ,

Brandishing a RIF ( realistic imitation firearm ) in a public place ,

Criminal damage

Expect a prison sentence

Seriously idiotic advice

You're far too serious a character Gatting :pac:

megafan

Similar situation in company I work for cameras everywhere + machines monitored by computer (speed, downtime & quantity produced) really feels like employees are a piece of machinery…… brave new world huh! George Orwell not far off the mark! 8-( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four

aaakev

Doom wrote: »

People, that kind of monitoring is illegal, report them.

Can ypu explain further? I work in a big car dealership, in the reception/sales area where I work there is a camera covering the front door and can see my desk, I dont mind doesn't bother me in the slightest as my desk is beside the door but the workshop floor has recently had loads of new cameras installed where customers are not allowed so theu are purely for monitoring the technicians while they are working.

The lads were all giving out and it seems they are right if what you said is true

Doom

hfallada wrote: »

Except we have the weakest data protection laws in Europe and some of the poorest enforcement of them. IT are locating in Ireland, as data protection is the bare minimum.

Look in the link I posted earlier, plenty of fines dished out...people just don't know their rights and assume their employers can do what they want just because they pay their wages...
Wake up people, educate yourselves!!!!!

Doom

aaakev wrote: »

Can ypu explain further? I work in a big car dealership, in the reception/sales area where I work there is a camera covering the front door and can see my desk, I dont mind doesn't bother me in the slightest as my desk is beside the door but the workshop floor has recently had loads of new cameras installed where customers are not allowed so theu are purely for monitoring the technicians while they are working.

The lads were all giving out and it seems they are right if what you said is true

Look in the link I posted earlier. ..look at some of the test cases.

Ask yourself some questions. .
1. What is the reason for cameras? Was it explained to you.
2. Who has access to them? Is the data safe?
3.Is it adequate, relevant and not excessive ?
4. Have they registered as a data controller? Certain data controllers must register with the data protection commissioner.
5.Is it retain it no longer than is necessary for the specified purpose or purposes.

Plenty more questions need to be asked.

Doom

Karsini wrote: »

I used to work in a place like this. They had a camera on the shop floor recording sound too. On one occasion I was talking to one of my colleagues while waiting for a virus scan to complete and we got a phone call from the manager's wife telling us to get back to work!

Needless to say, I left after a little over two weeks. Didn't regret it one bit because I got another job a month later and stayed there for over 5 years. I know the job situation nowadays is very different though.

If you know this to be true, please report them... this is illegal.

GarIT

If this is Illegal we have something seriously wrong with our laws. Why would you need privacy from you employer in a place where you are only going to be doing what your employer has asked you to do?

Doom

GarIT wrote: »

If this is Illegal we have something seriously wrong with our laws. Why would you need privacy from you employer in a place where you are only going to be doing what your employer has asked you to do?

Go back under your rock. ..
The bosses WIFE accessing cctv remotely and ringing employees. ..that is illegal.
People are entitled to reasonable privacy at work.
Companies can use cctv but it must be reasonable and appropriate

deirdremf

Folks, between this sort of stuff and Jobbridge, we really are going back towards the 19th century.

Folks, get organised. Join a union - they aren't perfect, but there is some protection available, and you'll have an official who can inform you of your rights.

Your boss will hate you being in a union, but this is about you, not about them.

Try Mandate, Siptu, Impact, whatever

www.mandate.ie
www.siptu.ie
www.impact.ie

It's a form of protection, a sort of insurance policy. Otherwise they'll walk all over you.

zetalambda

Remain anon wrote: »

Same thing in the company I work for.

It's horrible to be honest as I constantly feel like I'm being watched

My boss told me one day that the camera is there for the purposes of the front door - fine.

But they totally abuse the system daily. I get calls all day saying "why is X standing there" and "what is X doing with that folder" etc etc etc

It goes on all the time, so to me, it genuinely looks like they are just using the cameras to monitor staff members. Cameras are pointed at all desks, not just the front door.

It's awful. Really feel on edge all the time

I've worked in some shite offices but cameras pointed on desks. :eek: I'd be out of there like a light.

Doom

Doom wrote: »

If you know this to be true, please report them... this is illegal.

I really should have at the time; this was early 2007 so it would be a bit late now. I know they moved to another town but I'm not sure if they're still in business there.

Mr. G

You can make an anonymous complaint to the Data Protection Commissioner.

http://www.dataprotection.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=/documents/casestudies/CaseStudies2007.htm

https://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Data-Protection-CCTV/242.htm

If a data controller is satisfied that it can justify installing a CCTV system, it must consider what it will be used for and if these uses are reasonable in the circumstances.

Security of premises or other property is probably the most common use of a CCTV system. Such a system will typically be intended to capture images of intruders or of individuals damaging property or removing goods without authorisation. Such uses are more likely to meet the test of proportionality.

Other uses may fail the test of proportionality. For example, using a CCTV system to constantly monitor employees is highly intrusive and would need to be justified by reference to special circumstances. If the monitoring is for health and safety reasons, a data controller would need to demonstrate that the installation of CCTV was proportionate in addressing health and safety issues that had arisen prior to the installation of the system.

It sounds really unfair to be honest. I think this should be highlighted on a national level, especially with the highlight of phone tapping in the HSÉ and in the Gardaí.

LegacyUser

deirdremf wrote: »

Folks, between this sort of stuff and Jobbridge, we really are going back towards the 19th century.

Folks, get organised. Join a union - they aren't perfect, but there is some protection available, and you'll have an official who can inform you of your rights.

Your boss will hate you being in a union, but this is about you, not about them.

Try Mandate, Siptu, Impact, whatever

www.mandate.ie
www.siptu.ie
www.impact.ie

It's a form of protection, a sort of insurance policy. Otherwise they'll walk all over you.

To be honest whilst that is very helpful advice, the place where I am, if you attempt to join a union, the bosses make up some excuse that "there's no work anymore" and let you go.

One of our lads was let go because he got the union in, the following week there was magically "no work" for him so they sent him on his way. The week after that, they got someone in to replace him. Everyone is now too afraid, they dont want to lose their jobs. The only option I have in here is to leave.

That's illegal. If you make someone redundant then you can't take somebody else on in the same position right away.

gman2k

Case study from the Data Protection Commission:
http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Case_Studies_2010/1195.htm#8

Case study 8: Unlawful use of CCTV images of a customer

We received a complaint in October 2009 from a solicitor, acting on behalf of a data subject, against a commercial premises located in Co. Cork. The complaint concerned the alleged gross misuse of CCTV footage at the premises. The solicitors informed us that the commercial premises had no signage in place to inform the public of the presence of CCTV and of its purpose. The complaint also alleged that on 1 October 2009 the data subject visited the premises and purchased some items. The staff member on duty was known to the data subject who spent some time speaking with him. The member of staff received a letter from the company that runs the premises dated 5 October 2009. The letter concerned a number of work performance issues relating to 1 October, including the fact that the staff member had spent time chatting with the data subject. The letter stated that the manager of the premises had examined footage from the security cameras at the premises. The employee concerned gave a copy of the letter to the data subject. That letter was passed on to my Office with the complaint.

Recognisable images captured by CCTV systems are personal data. Therefore they are subject to the provisions of the Data Protection Acts 1988 & 2003. To satisfy the fair obtaining principle of the Data Protection Acts with regard to the use of CCTV cameras, those people whose images are captured on camera must be informed about the identity of the data controller and the purpose(s) of processing the data. This can be achieved by placing easily-read signs in prominent positions. A data controller needs to be able to justify obtaining and using personal data by means of a CCTV system.

The subject of our investigation of this complaint was the capture and subsequent processing of the data subject's image on CCTV without his knowledge or consent. In its initial response to our investigation, the company informed us that it uses CCTV cameras in its commercial premises for security purposes. It also confirmed that CCTV was operating in this particular store without being properly notified to those visiting the store. It informed us that it was undertaking a review of the signage used in all of its stores throughout the country. It also apologised for any distress or inconvenience caused to the data subject by capturing his image on CCTV without having informed him by means of appropriate notices in the store.

The first breach of the Data Protection Acts occurred when the data subject's image was captured on a CCTV camera located in a commercial premises that did not have appropriate signage in place. The second breach occurred when the company processed the data subject's image for a non-security matter (i.e. to address a work performance issue). We pointed out to the company that, regardless of whether there was signage in the shop to inform members of the public that CCTV cameras were in operation and their purpose, the processing of the data subject's image for a non-security matter was a breach of the Acts.

The Acts provide that, in the first instance, we must try to arrange an amicable resolution to a matter that is the subject of a complaint. The company agreed to seek an amicable resolution of the complaint. To that end it proposed to offer the data subject a letter of apology and a monetary goodwill gesture. The solicitor for the data subject subsequently confirmed his client's acceptance of the amicable resolution proposed. The company's letter of apology included confirmation to the data subject that his personal data had been erased and that the store in question now had a clearly displayed notice that CCTV was in operation.

Doom

Remain Anon wrote: »

To be honest whilst that is very helpful advice, the place where I am, if you attempt to join a union, the bosses make up some excuse that "there's no work anymore" and let you go.

One of our lads was let go because he got the union in, the following week there was magically "no work" for him so they sent him on his way. The week after that, they got someone in to replace him. Everyone is now too afraid, they dont want to lose their jobs. The only option I have in here is to leave.

This is the reason people need to educate themselves...it is amazing the amount of employers get away with this crap because people don't know their rights

PLUG71

Thankyou to everyone for all the links and info provided!!