Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning Linked in OP

Paleface

tayto lover wrote: »

Why are people so reluctant to spend money.
If you have it then spend it.
If Shaw is a success it will be a good investment. If not then it's only money.

I don't think anyone is saying don't spend any money. In fact most people on here would prefer if Arsenal spent more.

However the world of football is unlike any other market in todays globalised economy. Thanks to FIFA, UEFA et al its completely unregulated and living in a bubble which will eventually pop.

Paying £27m for an 18 year old left back with only one season at the top level to show for it is just another step on the way to unsustainabilty for the sport. Next it will be £35m.. then £40m etc with ever increasing wages also.

Why do you think other team sports such as the American ones in particular are so tightly regulated?

Edit: In fact if you think about it Arsenal will never be able to compete fullstop with this kind of spending. Not without a sugar daddy owner anyway.

cathalio11

Paleface wrote: »

I don't think anyone is saying don't spend any money. In fact most people on here would prefer if Arsenal spent more.

However the world of football is unlike any other market in todays globalised economy. Thanks to FIFA, UEFA et al its completely unregulated and living in a bubble which will eventually pop.

Paying £27m for an 18 year old left back with only one season at the top level to show for it is just another step on the way to unsustainabilty for the sport. Next it will be £35m.. then £40m etc with ever increasing wages also.

Why do you think other team sports such as the American ones in particular are so tightly regulated?

To answer quickly, for the exact reasons you pointed out above! :pac:

gnfnrhead

Y2KBOS86 wrote: »

It's alot of money, but if he turns into a world class left back by age 22

And if he doesnt? Money down the drain. He's had one good season. We should know how unreliable it is to judge a player based on such a small sample size. Adebayour is a fairly recent example. One great season, big money move, nothing close since.

You dont want to be spending £30m on someone who might be a great player. For £30m you'd want it to almost be a guarantee.

2ndcoming

27m for Luke Shaw is nuts in my opinion. If he's worth that Coleman must be worth Bale money.

tayto lover

It's a gamble you take.
If he's as good as they think he will be worth 50m after another good season.
Nothing ventured - nothing gained.
Plus I doubt it's even 27m.

Paleface

tayto lover wrote: »

It's a gamble you take.
If he's as good as they think he will be worth 50m after another good season.
Nothing ventured - nothing gained.
Plus I doubt it's even 27m.

I doubt its actually 27mil also. Typical of Sky to announce this on the last day of the season. They are the biggest cheerleaders of all with this nonsense.

Y2KBOS86

2ndcoming wrote: »

27m for Luke Shaw is nuts in my opinion. If he's worth that Coleman must be worth Bale money.

Coleman has no resale value, he's already 25, in a few years he will be old for a full back.

Shaw in 5 years will only be 23, if he's half decent then ( Baines level ), he will still be worth at least 20m.

WoollyRedHat

When do people think the bubble that football is currently operating in, with crazy transfer fess and astrominical wages, will come to a halt? Do people think FFP will simply slow it down, or indeed bring it to a halt?

If it came to it, I wouldn't be surprised if the top 20 wealthies clubs set up their own elite league, which would bypass the need to exist within the FFP guildlines set out for them. Should expulsion from the Champions League become a reality, then it would ensure the inevitable.

Paleface

Paleface wrote: »

Why do you think other team sports such as the American ones in particular are so tightly regulated?

Because professional sports there have always been about profit unlike in Europe. It's not for the good of the sport.

bad2dabone

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because professional sports there have always been about profit unlike in Europe. It's not for the good of the sport.

Indeed, there's an almost guaranteed return on investment for nfl owners

tayto lover

I remember people saying that things were gone mad when Alan Ball went to Arsenal for 220,000 in 1971. They said football couldn't sustain such crazy fees.

AdamD

Don't really get the football bubble talk at all. It all comes from increased sponsorship deals and tv money, not gonna drop anytime soon.

Paleface

Deleted User wrote: »

Because professional sports there have always been about profit unlike in Europe. It's not for the good of the sport.

How is the way American sports franchises are run in a sustainable/profitable manner bad for the sports themselves?

Everyone should have an honest shot at winning and its actually unsporting to dominate by outmuscling your rivals financially.

WoollyRedHat

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

When do people think the bubble that football is currently operating in, with crazy transfer fess and astrominical wages, will come to a halt? Do people think FFP will simply slow it down, or indeed bring it to a halt?

If it came to it, I wouldn't be surprised if the top 20 wealthies clubs set up their own elite league, which would bypass the need to exist within the FFP guildlines set out for them. Should expulsion from the Champions League become a reality, then it would ensure the inevitable.

The appetite isn't there to upset the cart. Comparing to America doesn't work as the leagues and franchises are intertwined and a closed shop. Look at somewhere like Australia with the Super League War for a better example and the losses that were incurred despite the much smaller scale and the fact it was a single country involved.

efb

AdamD wrote: »

Don't really get the football bubble talk at all. It all comes from increased sponsorship deals and tv money, not gonna drop anytime soon.

And when the TV money runs out... It's a bubble

Paleface

AdamD wrote: »

Don't really get the football bubble talk at all. It all comes from increased sponsorship deals and tv money, not gonna drop anytime soon.

Man City could not afford their current squad if sponsorship (unrelated to the current owners I might add ), tv money, merchandise etc. were to pay for it alone i.e. its unsustainable.

AdamD

efb wrote: »

And when the TV money runs out... It's a bubble

When?? Tv money has increased year on year for over 20 years.

Paleface wrote: »

Man City could not afford their current squad if sponsorship (unrelated to the current owners I might add ), tv money, merchandise etc. were to pay for it alone i.e. its unsustainable.

Of course Man City are unsustainable, but football as a whole?

Paleface

AdamD wrote: »

Of course Man City are unsustainable, but football as a whole?

Is everyone else not chasing them right now? Is that not why United bid £27m for Shaw?

AdamD

Paleface wrote: »

Is everyone else not chasing them right now? Is that not why United bid £27m for Shaw?

But United paying 27m for Shaw is completely financially sustainable.

bad2dabone

Will mcshane be starting for Hull In the final?

I do hope so!

Paleface

AdamD wrote: »

But United paying 27m for Shaw is completely financially sustainable.

Explain to me how? He is only one member of a squad of 30+ players.

bad2dabone

bad2dabone wrote: »

Indeed, there's an almost guaranteed return on investment for nfl owners

Exactly. The NFL basically has charity status despite being owned by the franchises, hilarious really.

Paleface wrote: »

How is the way American sports franchises are run in a sustainable/profitable manner bad for the sports themselves?

Everyone should have an honest shot at winning and its actually unsporting to dominate by outmuscling your rivals financially.

It's not necessarily bad but they're not run like that for the good of the sport.

The entire structure in America isn't about competition. Wages are set at levels to guarantee profits. TBH the more I find out about the systems the more immoral it feels. The source of money going into the sports in schools and what it isn't spent on instead is ridiculous. The way college sports operate is disgraceful. The pro teams basically have nothing to do with the grassroots stuff.
As well as the old players campaigning about the head injuries and all the safety in American Football is going to have a knock-on effect on youth participation rates as parents push kids into other sports.

Who do you mean by "everyone" btw? In the US you can only win if you spend hundreds of millions on starting a team in the first place and buying a place in the league. Then getting the local government to pay hundreds of millions for half the stadium construction costs, passing extra taxes etc. etc.

tayto lover

Wilshere wins Goal of the Season :D

AdamD

Paleface wrote: »

Explain to me how? He is only one member of a squad of 30+ players.

Quite simple really, their revenues are so high. Not bothered going searching at this hour but I know from previous reading that they are in an incredibly healthy financial position.

greendom

AdamD wrote: »

When?? Tv money has increased year on year for over 20 years.



Of course Man City are unsustainable, but football as a whole?

Bubbles pop just as they reach their maximum size (e.g. Irish house-price bubble)

AdamD

greendom wrote: »

Bubbles pop just as they reach their maximum size (e.g. Irish house-price bubble)

My last post as its late. By all relevant measurements Irish property was massively over-valued. Unless somebody can show me that football sponsorship and tv rights are overvalued there's no substance to these claims.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

AdamD wrote: »

My last post as its late. By all relevant measurements Irish property was massively over-valued. Unless somebody can show me that football sponsorship and tv rights are overvalued there's no substance to these claims.

One could argue that people are now tending to move away from traditional TV towards netflix etc. so it's not beyond the realms of possibility. I know I certainly don't intend on paying full whack for Sky, BT etc in the near future

bad2dabone

tayto lover wrote: »

Wilshere wins Goal of the Season :D

WWe've got 4th, we've got goal of the season, if we win the FA cup then it's the treble, up there with United's in 99.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

One could argue that people are now tending to move away from traditional TV towards netflix etc. so it's not beyond the realms of possibility. I know I certainly don't intend on paying full whack for Sky, BT etc in the near future

It's going to be interesting over the next while, I can see TV subs falling dramatically. Switching to the Spanish model isn't desirable when it comes to competitiveness. A European league would cause incredible upheaval and short-term losses at the least.

WoollyRedHat

bad2dabone wrote: »

WWe've got 4th, we've got goal of the season, if we win the FA cup then it's the treble, up there with United's in 99.

We would of got the Golden Glove too, but we had to let Chelsea pick up something.
Fabianski needed to play today if he was playing in the final, and Szczesny can win it next year instead, it will feel more deserved then seeing as he would of taken the lead in clean sheets over Cech due to injury.

Will motivate Szczesny even further next year, maybe so much so that he will keep 38 clean sheets and then they will have to give Szczesny real golden gloves.

farna_boy

I find it amusing that Arsenal fans are now saying we should go out and just sign the players regardless of the cost and if it doesn't work out, it's only money.

I can remember not all that long ago a lot of fans on here complaining about all the deadwood in the squad and complaining about the massive amount of wages we were investing in the young players who never made it. I said it at the time, along with a few others, but you can't have it both ways.

If you want to attract potentially the best young players they will cost you both upfront and in terms of wages. However, no matter what you spend on them, you will never know if you will get a Ramsey or if you will get a Frimpong (which is harsh on him because of injuries, but the point remains).

If things in Arsenal stay as they are, we will always be a club that will be financially responsible and so will always have some cap on the amount of wages we pay and the amount we spend in transfers in any given window, and to me that is the best way to be. I would much prefer to see Arsenal to spend 30m on Cesc or an established CF/RB than the same amount on a player who has had one good season, and who we will consider to be deadwood in 3 years lamenting the fact we are paying such high wages on a player we can't get rid of.

Mr Blobby

Serge Aurier was named best RB in Ligue 1 and was also nominated for Ligue 1 player of the year.



We'd be stupid not to sign him! Sure he even has his own Arsenal jersey which should bring down his transfer fee :pac:

cson

Mr Blobby wrote: »

Serge Aurier was named best RB in Ligue 1 and was also nominated for Ligue 1 player of the year.



We'd be stupid not to sign him! Sure he even has his own Arsenal jersey which should bring down his transfer fee :pac:

Another Sagna in the making you'd hope if we did sign him.

But then again; when do we give Jenkinson his chance? It'll be an interesting one to see what happens but I'd suspect AW will rely on Jenkinson and Bellerin to fill the Sagna void.

Pepe LeFrits

cson wrote: »

But then again; when do we give Jenkinson his chance? It'll be an interesting one to see what happens but I'd suspect AW will rely on Jenkinson and Bellerin to fill the Sagna void.

Would be another reason not to renew his contract if that was true.

greendom

I like Jenkinson but I think he should be sold. Don't think he has it to be a top 4 level full-back.

Roaster

Heading to The Mercantile for the first time for a game on Saturday. I just know this week is going to drag.

EuropeanSon

Roaster wrote: »

Heading to The Mercantile for the first time for a game on Saturday. I just know this week is going to drag.

I have 6 exams this week, the last finishing on Saturday at 4. This week is really got to drag.

Pepe LeFrits

Roaster wrote: »

Heading to The Mercantile for the first time for a game on Saturday. I just know this week is going to drag.

I might head to the Merc for the game too. Anyone else going?

Galvasean

Giroud 22 (16)
Ramsey 15 (10)
Podolski 12 (8)
Ozil 6 (4)
Cazorla 6 (4)
Walcott 6 (5)
Wilshere 5 (3)
Mertesacker 3 (2)
Rosicky 3 (2)
Arteta 3 (2)
Oxlade-Chamberlain 3 (2)
Flamini 2 (2)
Bendtner 2 (2)
Jenkinson 1 (1)
Koscielny 1 (1)
Gnabry 1 (1)
Eisfeld 1 (0)
Sagna 1 (1)
Gibbs 1 (0)

(league goals in brackets)

Congratulations to Ramsey for breaking double digits in terms of league goals (and in some style I might add) and Jenkinson for scoring his first Arsenal goal.

HazDanz

I think that Ramsey goal will be in his career clips when he starts dominating over the next couple of years.

Galvasean

Serge Aurier? I always sign him in FM11

AdamD

https://vine.co/v/Mgw1gZL5WH5

cson

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Would be another reason not to renew his contract if that was true.

I think its pretty much done and dusted that he'll be there next season.

What's a little bit off putting about it, is it seems to be dictated by himself rather than the board. I'd love to hope it'll be different but in all likelihood we'll go through another Groundhog Day scenario with last minute transfers which don't address weaknesses in the squad, more injuries and more lashings from teams around us. Maybe then the penny will drop with the majority of fans.

I know I'll be killed on here for being negative but I'm only going on form; there's nothing to suggest that the change thats needed will be effected.

greendom

AdamD wrote: »

https://vine.co/v/Mgw1gZL5WH5

That is brilliant! Dictionary definition of composure !

Oranage2

Well another fourth place trophy, bit of a let down February onwards and we took some absolute lashings from the teams above us.

Though on the plus side, ramsey has been something else and We do have a cup final to look forward to.

emergingstar

BREAKING: Leverkusen confirm the signing of Nuremberg's Josip Drmic on a 5-year contract until 2019.

gandalf

emergingstar wrote: »

BREAKING: Leverkusen confirm the signing of Nuremberg's Josip Drmic on a 5-year contract until 2019.

Bugger thats one off the list!

emergingstar

gandalf wrote: »

Bugger thats one off the list!

Seen that tweeted. I don't no anything about him so don't no if it's a good or bad thing yang we were missing out

keano_afc

So are we all heading into the Merc? Just arranging things here with another Gooner, but I heard it might be a ticketed event? Anyone confirm/deny?

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Another one I thought about yesterday was Bony, what would people think? (Again it would be annoying having him go to the African Cup)