Sycammore

O.A.P

I have one tree by the main road that is at least 200 years old.
Today I had walk around the boundary and noticed that it has shoots (saplings) over 1 meter long growing from the butt or the roots. I've known the tree all my life, but this is new.
I am wondering if this could mean the tree is beginning to die or not.
I wouldn't worry normally and let nature take its course sycamore is bad firewood anyway but if it falls onto the road it could cost me a lot,
The tree is solid doesn't look like there is rot anywhere but this new development has me wondering if its life is over.
Thanks for any advice,

wayoutwest

Not sure about the shoots, but Sycamore is great firewood when dried for a couple of years.

fergus1001

Take a mallet or similar and hit it off the trunk you will hear a hollow sound if its rotten inside

O.A.P

fergus1001 wrote: »

Take a mallet or similar and hit it off the trunk you will hear a hollow sound if its rotten inside

I have done that, its solid as far as I can tell.

Oldtree

It may be shooting from animal damage, but there are many reasons why this may be happening. If you have a serious concern you need to get the tree professionally assessed by an arborist.

Fergus, a hollow tree is not necessarily and unsound tree.

O.A.P

I don't think its in any danger of falling yet.
The sap is up now anyway so I will leave it until next winter and decide then.
Its in a fenced off corner of the field where I stack bales so it cant be caused by cattle or sheep damage anyway. It has me curious now I must find out why this is happening

fergus1001

Oldtree wrote: »

It may be shooting from animal damage, but there are many reasons why this may be happening. If you have a serious concern you need to get the tree professionally assessed by an arborist.

Fergus, a hollow tree is not necessarily and unsound tree.

I'm well aware of that just giving him a way of assessing if the tree posses a serious liability to him I.e has bad but rot and may come down

Oldtree

fergus1001 wrote: »

I'm well aware of that just giving him a way of assessing if the tree posses a serious liability to him I.e has bad but rot and may come down

Still the same point Fergus, you are suggesting that a hammer in the hands of a non-professional is an adequate assessment for the op to make a decision to fell or not to fell a (possibly) 200 year old tree. :eek: adjacent to a main road.

as you may know up to a third of an opening may be more than adequate to retain a tree, so there are many variables that require an onsite assessment, esp adjacent to a road. The op did mention that he felt the tree was solid in the first post.

Oldtree

O.A.P wrote: »

I don't think its in any danger of falling yet.
The sap is up now anyway so I will leave it until next winter and decide then.
Its in a fenced off corner of the field where I stack bales so it cant be caused by cattle or sheep damage anyway. It has me curious now I must find out why this is happening

It would be wise to get it assessed by an arborist to protect yourself esp as it has basal shooting. Basal shooting is not necessarily a reason for a kneejerk reaction and to immediately fell the tree but the liability is yours should anything happen with the tree and there would be the need to produce evidence of periodic assessment in court.

O.A.P

Oldtree wrote: »

It would be wise to get it assessed by an arborist to protect yourself esp as it has basal shooting. Basal shooting is not necessarily a reason for a kneejerk reaction and to immediately fell the tree but the liability is yours should anything happen with the tree and there would be the need to produce evidence of periodic assessment in court.

Thanks for your advice on this, Ill research it and find out what is the most lightly cause. I will drop it if I have too no problem but I cant afford to pay an aborist to look at it.
If there is any doubt down it comes.
Not far away from you as it happens if you work for tea and a sandwich . PM me

Oldtree

O.A.P wrote: »

Thanks for your advice on this, Ill research it and find out what is the most lightly cause. I will drop it if I have too no problem but I cant afford to pay an aborist to look at it.
If there is any doubt down it comes.
Not far away from you as it happens if you work for tea and a sandwich . PM me

You would need a felling licence to fell it if you don't get an arborists opinion your own doubt would be an insufficient reason in the eyes of the law should the department take you to court for the unauthorised felling (and they do).

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/treefelling/treefelling/

gk5000

Oldtree wrote: »

You would need a felling licence to fell it if you don't get an arborists opinion your own doubt would be an insufficient reason in the eyes of the law should the department take you to court for the unauthorised felling (and they do).

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/treefelling/treefelling/

Don't worry OAP. Ask for a Jury Trial and I'll not convict you - if you are genuine.

wayoutwest

Are there any qualified aborists on this forum that could indicate the cost of an inspection (and presumably a written report) for a single tree like OAP's Sycamore.
I would imagine that it it would be a small fraction of the cost to fell it -which could cost as much four cups of tea, eight sandwiches and a whole packet of Hobnobs.

Oldtree

gk5000 wrote: »

Don't worry OAP. Ask for a Jury Trial and I'll not convict you - if you are genuine.

Genuine wont cut it

More recently:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/farmer-in-hot-water-for-obeying-felling-order-259860.html

and a few years back

From the Western People: Wednesday, December 12, 2007

Error led to felling of 520 trees

A CONG man who illegal felled 520 trees near his home in South Mayo will have to report to the local District Court for a period of ten years.

Fergal O’Mahony, Old School, Cong, appeared at Ballinrobe District Court on charges under the Forestry Act. The court heard O’Mahony uprooted and cut down 520 trees, without a felling licence, at a site at Nymphsfield, Cong. The trees, which were at least 10 years old, were a mixture of ash, scotts pine, super spruce, oak and beech. Before cutting down the trees, O’Mahony had not served notice on the Gardaí and had later claimed the trees were on a site owned by him, where he intended to seek planning permission to build a new family home.

The court heard O’Mahony had not been aware he was committing an offence
by felling the trees, as he had checked to see if the site was deemed an area of conservation and learned that it was not. The defendant pleaded guilty to the charges before the court.

Mr Seamus Hughes, State Solicitor, said the penalty in such a case was a fine of €63 per tree. However, the Department of Agriculture was currently in negotiations with Mr O’Mahony, who had expressed his sincere apologies, explaining that he really had no idea he was doing anything wrong.

The defendant had offered to re-plant a section of the site, as well as offering another portion of land to replant some more trees, to make up for the loss.
Mr Hughes noted that the Department is interested in the landowner’s proposal, but pointed out that, legally, the Minister must obtain a conviction before issuing the re-planting order. Nevertheless, the solicitor commented that the Minister had indicated that he would like to see O’Mahony go ahead with the proposed planting.

Mr Creed, solicitor, stressed his client had not acted out of malevolence and had actually contacted Dúchas to make sure the site was not located in a special area of conservation. The defendant hired a contractor to remove trees and when the matter was brought to Mr O’Mahony’s attention he immediately put his hands up.

The solicitor said his client had entered into immediate discussions with the Department of Agriculture. Mr O’Mahony valued his good name, was involved in many community organisations and was embarrassed by what had occurred. Mr Creed said his client ran a thriving business which involved travel to the United States. A conviction against him might prevent him from travelling to the US in the future and he implored Judge Devins not to impose a conviction.

“My client is in open correspondence with the Department and has hired a horticulturist and a tree expert to re-plant the trees. This is a case of human error. He did not wilfully set out to break the law and he is prepared to pay any costs to the State. In the circumstances, I would ask the court to please consider some method of dealing with this case without imposing a conviction,” said Mr Creed.

Judge Mary Devins said she accepted the evidence given by the defence but the Department of Agriculture would need reassurance that if the trees were replanted they would not be cut down some time later.

In this regard, Judge Devins suggested that the matter be adjourned for a lengthy period and brought back before the court on an annual basis. She ordered that Mr O’Mahony contribute to the State’s legal costs and said that she would reassess the case on a year-to-year basis so that negotiations could be entered into and that the re-planting could be carried out. Concluding, she adjourned the case to December 2, 2008, for mention.

previously covered in this thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057152100

gk5000

A genuine person would never cut 500 trees in error!

JohnBoy

Could easily happen. My auld lad never knew there was such a thing as a felling licence until I told him about it a few weeks ago and he's been using a saw for 40 years.

Oldtree

gk5000 wrote: »

A genuine person would never cut 500 trees in error!

I am inclined to agree in this specific instance as I researched the background to this specific case out of interest.

I believe that the trees were clear felled by the developer to make way for a subsequent planning application, which is what happened. It should be noted that previously the same site was part of a larger planning application area and in the councils decision on that application (subsequently declined by An Bord Pleanala) indicated a felling licence was necessary before development could proceed. I believe that it would be "very strange" indeed if the developer in this tree case had not read the previous planning application decision. IMO there is no plausibly deniability here.

JohnBoy wrote: »

Could easily happen. My auld lad never knew there was such a thing as a felling licence until I told him about it a few weeks ago and he's been using a saw for 40 years.

I come across this excuse regularly, and I do understand that it may be a genuine one, but ignorance of the law is not accepted as a defence in the courts. If a complaint was/is mad about your auld lad then the department would prosecute. The need for a licence is regularly published in the farmers journal as well as by Teagasc. Now that he knows he should protect himself with a felling licence. It is a simple process if your management of the trees is "genuine".:D

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/treefelling/treefelling/

O.A.P

I know about the felling licence and never asked here about how or when one is needed.
The question was why would a 200 year old sycamore tree start sending shoots from its base.
I thought maybe its because its dying and had hoped that ye had loads of other reasons why this happens.
Apart from Oldtree nobody has.
Its not animal damage that is sure, and Im not about to cut down a sound tree (This one has meaning to me anyway)
So experienced tree feller needs excuse to not fell tree any help welcome.

TomOnBoard

I would firstly remove the shoots coming from the base. If you don't remove them, the tree's growth and nutrition efforts may be channeled into these shoots and may deprive the top end of necessary food, thereby accelerating any problems up there. It still does need professional assessment, but removing these shoots now before budding has been completed ought to help stave off any immediate growth problems, allowing the growth/health to be monitored over the Summer.

Oldtree

O.A.P wrote: »

I know about the felling licence and never asked here about how or when one is needed.
The question was why would a 200 year old sycamore tree start sending shoots from its base.
I thought maybe its because its dying and had hoped that ye had loads of other reasons why this happens.
Apart from Oldtree nobody has.
Its not animal damage that is sure, and Im not about to cut down a sound tree (This one has meaning to me anyway)
So experienced tree feller needs excuse to not fell tree any help welcome.

I'm easily sidetracked into minutia

There are many reasons why this may have happened which is why it would be a good idea to get this specific tree assessed esp as basal shooting is a reason for concern and indicates damage of some sort somewhere and is a reaction by the tree.

The body language of the tree is something that can be read to indicate an issue. If you post photographs we'll have a go (site, complete tree and then 360 of the trunk and surrounding grounds), but giving an appropriate assessment for a 200 year old tree without being onsite is almost impossible and really not advisable, but if there is someting obvious we may be able to move forward.

I have a very old ash, maby 150-200, and I can see crown dieback over the years (it not ash dieback), it has basal shooting too and its body language indicates serious structural issues.

If I do nothing as there is no hazard to the public then imo the tree will rip itself apart down to the roots and die. I want to retain this tree for as long as possible as older ash are rare. Ecologically a 150-200 year old tree is very important too, so in my mind an attempt must be made to retain some of the tree.

My plan is to pollard the top of the tree completely to about 20 foot (roughly where the broad spreading crown joins the trunk) and from then on do a 3 yearly shoots pruning. This has the possibility of extending the life of the tree, or such a drastic shock could also kill it, but if I do nothing it will rip itself apart which is obvious to me.

If it was a customers tree then I would have no problem indicating the above if the management regime of every 3 years is agree (if not and the tree is a hazard then removal would be the only option). but it is mine and the loss of the crown is something I have been thinking about for 6 years and have finally decided to proceed as the tree is approaching breaking point.

The basal shooting in my example from the structural issues could have be compounded by cattle poaching the soil around the roots and damaging those roots over many many years, or even old damage from machinery.

gozunda

O.A.P wrote: »

I have one tree by the main road that is at least 200 years old.
Today I had walk around the boundary and noticed that it has shoots (saplings) over 1 meter long growing from the butt or the roots. I've known the tree all my life, but this is new.
I am wondering if this could mean the tree is beginning to die or not.
I wouldn't worry normally and let nature take its course sycamore is bad firewood anyway but if it falls onto the road it could cost me a lot,
The tree is solid doesn't look like there is rot anywhere but this new development has me wondering if its life is over.
Thanks for any advice,

My thoughts on the shoots ( sometimes referred to as water shoots) is that the tree is responding to some form of stress. The recent storms have caused havoc to older trees right across the country. Many were taken down during the storm, others incurred large amounts of damage including loss of tree crown, branches and many smaller branches that carry buds and later leaves.

The loss of even 10% of the branching structure which carry the buds for leaves and by extension enabling photosynthesis is going to have a huge impact on the trees that have survived the storms.

In some cases trees may have become unbalanced from major limb loss, risk possible further damage unless remedial work is carried out to ensure the tree is rebalanced.

In the situation you describe some of the stress is possibly linked to branch losses. One other possible factor considering the fact that the tree appears sound is that it has suffered root disturbance from the storms. This is not necessarily going to have an effect on the stability of the tree but many of the smaller root systems feeding the tree may have damaged with the result that this stress has caused the production of water shoots at the base.

My suggestion would be to make an overall assessment of the tree and note any limb and branch losses. Also observe if the soil around the visible roots appears to have been disturbed by the storms.

Also watch for branches that do not bud or show leaf emergence.

Practically I would leave the tree settle and for the small root system to reestablish - the tree can do this itself. Leave the water shoots for now but once you are happy that the tree is not showing any other signs of stress then remove them.

Oldtree

gozunda wrote: »

Practically I would leave the tree settle and for the small root system to reestablish - the tree can do this itself. Leave the water shoots for now but once you are happy that the tree is not showing any other signs of stress then remove them.

The op said the tree was next to a main road so the tree must be professionally assessed from a hazard point of view, in order to protect the op. Ifs, buts and mabys are inappropriate really.

gk5000

Oldtree wrote: »

The op said the tree was next to a main road so the tree must be professionally assessed from a hazard point of view, in order to protect the op. Ifs, buts and mabys are inappropriate really.

Did you not see the Anglo trial? Professional advice is no defence.
I dislike unnecessary infringement on personal freedom - people trying to tell us what we can and can not do, especially vested interests.

OP: 1 meter shoots are at least a year old so may have been stress from the frost, or may just be a sign that the tree is mature; just like ear hair on men!

Get rid of the shoots and otherwise just keep an eye on the tree.

Oldtree

gk5000 wrote: »

I dislike unnecessary infringement on personal freedom - people trying to tell us what we can and can not do, especially vested interests.

It seems I have heard that one before. I have no vested interest here, just an informed opinion, please make a complaint to a mod if you feel I do have a vested interest.

My opinion of the tree law as it stands in our country is informed and I can only advise the OP how to protect himself against mishap when it comes to trees adjacent to a public roadway. Professional advice to the OP in the form of an insured arborists written opinion of an on-site visit and assessment takes away liability in this case.

It would appear that you feel infringed upon by the law of the land you may/may not reside in and do not wish for the public therein to be protected, how very odd of you.

Personal freedom comes with responsibilities, in Ireland a tree owner has a duty of care to the public and the OP has taken the first steps in that duty of care to try and find out if his tree is a danger to the public.

O.A.P

gk5000 wrote: »

Did you not see the Anglo trial? Professional advice is no defence.
I dislike unnecessary infringement on personal freedom - people trying to tell us what we can and can not do, especially vested interests.

OP: 1 meter shoots are at least a year old so may have been stress from the frost, or may just be a sign that the tree is mature; just like ear hair on men!

Get rid of the shoots and otherwise just keep an eye on the tree.

Yes they are obviously at least a year or more old, like I said in the OP it was a walk around boundary that brought it to my attention , even though I had worked no more than 15 meters from it all winter I never noticed .
The felling license is a joke I think, never any questions asked off me anyway
.
Meanwhile on the tree forum (My owner has hairs growing from his ears should I drop a branch on him now and hope his son is as good to me? )

Oldtree

O.A.P wrote: »

The felling license is a joke I think, never any questions asked off me anyway.)

But if a complaint was made bringing it to the attention of the department then there would be an issue.

O.A.P wrote: »

Meanwhile on the tree forum (My owner has hairs growing from his ears should I drop a branch on him now and hope his son is as good to me? )

owner needs a (hair) pruning too

gozunda

Oldtree wrote: »

The op said the tree was next to a main road so the tree must be professionally assessed from a hazard point of view, in order to protect the op. Ifs, buts and mabys are inappropriate really.

I see the business point of view which you advocate. However I did NOT give any "ifs and buts and maybes" as you inaccurately described it. As requested by the OP viz. The question was why would a 200 year old sycamore tree start sending shoots from its base"

I have given information on the causes of water shoots as described by the OP. This information is given as based on description of the tree. Despite the evident advertising I do not to attempt to have a go at your opinion.

There a number of practical things the OP can ascertain before bringing in the Calvary. Sycamores are just coming into leaf at this time so without any significant delay the OP can verify any significant changes in the tree himself. Something that any paid tree expert will also have to wait for considering that there are no other major signs of damage and the tree is apparently otherwise healthy. As I explained there are many many trees road side and otherwise that have suffered stress following the recent storms. Some of these trees may not survive and MAY need to come down. However simple observation and common sense can serve purpose in making an initial decision on whether to have to pay out monies for services that may not be required at this point.

gk5000

Oldtree wrote: »

It seems I have heard that one before. I have no vested interest here, just an informed opinion, please make a complaint to a mod if you feel I do have a vested interest.

My opinion of the tree law as it stands in our country is informed and I can only advise the OP how to protect himself against mishap when it comes to trees adjacent to a public roadway. Professional advice to the OP in the form of an insured arborists written opinion of an on-site visit and assessment takes away liability in this case.

It would appear that you feel infringed upon by the law of the land you may/may not reside in and do not wish for the public therein to be protected, how very odd of you.

Personal freedom comes with responsibilities, in Ireland a tree owner has a duty of care to the public and the OP has taken the first steps in that duty of care to try and find out if his tree is a danger to the public.

Are you not an arboritis or a vested interest in arborits suggesting to the OP to hire an arboritist?

Oldtree

gozunda wrote: »

I see the business point of view which you advocate. However I did Not give any "ifs and buts" as you inaccurately described it. As requested by the OP I have given information on the causes of water shoots as described by the OP. This information is given as based on description of the tree. Despite the evident self advertising I do not to attempt to have a go at your opinion.

There a number of practical things the OP can ascertain before bringing in the Calvary. Sycamores are just coming into leaf at this time so without any significant delay the OP can verify any significant changes in the tree himself. Something that any paid tree expert will also have to wait for considering that there are no other major signs of damage and the tree is apparently otherwise healthy. As I explained there are many many trees road side and otherwise that have suffered stress following the recent storms. Some of these trees may not survive and MAY need to come down. However simple observation and common sense can serve purpose in making an initial decision on whether to have to pay out monies for services that may not be required at this point.

The op has concerns for a tree that is special to him. If it were a horse would you call in a vet or just wait and see?

gozunda wrote: »

Practically I would leave the tree settle and for the small root system to reestablish - the tree can do this itself. Leave the water shoots for now but once you are happy that the tree is not showing any other signs of stress then remove them.

I have to ask what you mean by "small root system" on a 200 year old tree?

"Trees forests and the law in Ireland" 2004 states that an owner should inspect their trees at regular intervals (annually) and where unusual growth is noted, expert advice should be sought. QED The duty of the owner is based on the reasonable foreseeability of harm and should the owner choose to do nothing then they are assuming a large risk if that is subsequently proven in court. If a professional arborist (who has professional indemnity insurance) had assessed the tree for a fee then he may be successfully sued for negligence if an error was made in his assessment.

Oldtree

gk5000 wrote: »

Are you not an arboritis or a vested interest in arborits suggesting to the OP to hire an arboritist?

I am an arborist. Suggesting that you hire an arborist is not a vested interest as I in no way benefit from such a hiring. It is a requirement under the law as mentioned in my above post, and as such my advice is informed advice. If you had a sick animal would suggesting you get a vet be a vested interest if I were a vet??

Ps I am not a member of the Arboricultural Association, nor do I have shares in them:D

gozunda

Oldtree wrote: »

The op has concerns for a tree that is special to him. If it were a horse would you call in a vet or just wait and see?



I have to ask what you mean by "small root system" on a 200 year old tree?

"Trees forests and the law in Ireland" 2004 states that an owner should inspect their trees at regular intervals (annually) and where unusual growth is noted, expert advice should be sought. QED The duty of the owner is based on the reasonable foreseeability of harm and should the owner choose to do nothing then they are assuming a large risk if that is subsequently proven in court. If a professional arborist (who has professional indemnity insurance) had assessed the tree for a fee then he may be successfully sued for negligence if an error was made in his assessment.

Jeez would you give it a break. The OP asked for reasons that a tree would produce Watershoots. If you are what you appear to claim, you should have a good knowledge of the structure of a trees root system and how this can be effected by wind and other factors. Otherwise I would suggest taking a visit to the library.

Wait Ill save you the bother - this article gives a good description of trees roots in plain English ..
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/FCIN078.pdf/$FILE/FCIN078.pdf

You appear to be hell bent on driving a single agenda on this thread. So be it, but don't attempt to thrash every other answer.

Btw before you continue berating others opinions would you clarify if you are in fact a professional arborist? What are your qualificatbions and/ or experience. If you are not you are doing a helluva amount of free advertising for them.

As for the horse - I would not be calling in the vet in every time he coughed ...

O.A.P

Cool it lads no need for an argument at all it was only a friendly question.
My mother read something in the paper after the storm and was worried about this tree. That's why I went for the walk.
No damage really around here (we were lucky) I just want to keep it that way.
If I post pics of the tree I might as well tell everybody my real name and that's not happening , if pics of the shoots are any help Ill put them up but I doubt they are.
Thanks for all the advice lads, its nice to have somewhere to ask any question you like and get an intelligent answer

Oldtree

gozunda wrote: »

Jeez would you give it a break. The OP asked for reasons that a tree would produce Watershoots. If you are what you appear to claim, you should have a good knowledge of the structure of a trees root system and how this can be effected by wind and other factors. Otherwise I would suggest taking a visit to the library.

You appear to be hell bent on driving a single agenda on this thread. So be it, but don't attempt to thrash every other answer.

Btw before you continue berating others opinions would you clarify if you are in fact a professional arborist? What are your qualifications and/ or experience. If you are not you are doing a helluva amount of free advertising for them.

As for the horse - I would not be calling in the vet in every time he coughed ...

I did suggest that there are many reasons for the basal shoots and basal shooting rings alarm bells for me. Without a site visit or photos I can only assume the worst to be safe in my advice to the op. Any possible root damage from whatever source warrants inspection in a tree adjacent to a public roadway. I don't attempt to trash every other answer, I am just pragmatic and prudent.

If for example a wait and see approach is taken by the op, following your advice on here, and something happens in the interm, would you accept the legal liability for your advice? I think not you would be more than happy for the op to have that liability.

Please reread my above post about legal requirement for tree owners.

The free advertising as you call it is merely free information on how to contact the Arboricultural association (of which I am not a member) to get in contact with an arborist as they are the only people that are appropriate for carrying out an appropiate tree assessment.

Why would I give you my CV? What are your tree qualifications?

I'm sure if your horse had a strange new growth you would contact a vet.

gozunda

Oldtree wrote: »

I did suggest that there are many reasons for the basal shoots and basal shooting rings alarm bells for me. Without a site visit or photos I can only assume the worst to be safe in my advice to the op. Any possible root damage from whatever source warrants inspection in a tree adjacent to a public roadway. I don't attempt to trash every other answer, I am just pragmatic and prudent.

If for example a wait and see approach is taken by the op, following your advice on here, and something happens in the interm, would you accept the legal liability for your advice? I think not you would be more than happy for the op to have that liability.

Please reread my above post about legal requirement for tree owners.

The free advertising as you call it is merely free information on how to contact the Arboricultural association (of which I am not a member) to get in contact with an arborist as they are the only people that are appropriate for carrying out an appropiate tree assessment.

Why would I give you my CV? What are your tree qualifications?

I'm sure if your horse had a strange new growth you would contact a vet.

H

Take a reread - you have thrashed practically every other answer.
You said "It may be shooting from animal damage, but there are many reasons why this may be happening." - that was the sum of your opinion on the growth of shoots!

From reading the OPs post it was quite clear what information they were seeking.


I note you are using the "ifs and buts" reasoning above btw. If the OP wishes to call in a specialist I am sure they will do so. Repeating the same mantra isn't going to change anything.

Not sure why you are advertising an organisation you have nothing to do with - all the while advocating their services ? If you are an arborist - why are not a member? I don't get that <confused>

Yes there are many reasons for such shoots - but if every person paid for an arborist every time They saw a tree with these they would be most likely broke. And no such shoots don't necessarily mean that the tree is an immediate danger - have you seen old lime trees in Ireland? Hence looking at the tree in context. If the tree is really bad the OP can take appropriate action.

First principles of any situation is to assess then take action. If the horse has burdock stuck to its arse - then no I won't be ringing the vet...

wayoutwest

Are there any qualified arborists on this forum that could indicate the rough cost of an inspection for a single tree like OAP's Sycamore?

Oldtree

gozunda wrote: »

Take a reread - you have thrashed practically every other answer. You said "It may be shooting from animal damage, but there are many reasons why this may be happening." - that was the sum of your opinion on the growth of shoots!

From reading the OPs post it was quite clear what information they were seeking.

The OP is seeking reassurance on the retention of a tree adjacent to a public roadway, you cannot give such reassurances not can I.

gozunda wrote: »

I note you are using the "ifs and buts" reasoning above btw. If the OP wishes to call in a specialist I am sure they will do so. Repeating the same mantra isn't going to change anything.

My mantra as you call it is a rational solution to the OP's problem. Why you think your posts should outweigh the on-site professional opinion of an arborist, I do not know.

gozunda wrote: »

Not sure why you are advertising an organisation you have nothing to do with - all the while advocating their services ? If you are an arborist - why are not a member? I don't get that <confused>

I am not advertising as you put it I am sharing information on how to easily contact an organisation that have a ethos the I fully subscribe to. My reason for not being a member is not one I choose to share with you.

gozunda wrote: »

Yes there are many reasons for such shoots - but if every person paid for an arborist every time They saw a tree with these they would be most likely broke. And no such shoots don't necessarily mean that the tree is an immediate danger - have you seen old lime trees in Ireland? Hence looking at the tree in context. If the tree is really bad the OP can take appropriate action.

The issue here is basal shoots in a mature sycamore adjacent to a public roadway, not as you suggest every persons tree. You may/may not know that there is a well established tree evaluation system to assess the danger a tree may/may not pose. If there is no hazard or potential hazard then there is no need to worry

gozunda wrote: »

First principles of any situation is to assess then take action. If the horse has burdock stuck to its arse - then no I won't be ringing the vet...

I'm not sure how burdock relates to an unusual growth on a horse. But nonetheless feel I have to repeat "Trees forests and the law in Ireland" 2004 states that an owner should inspect their trees at regular intervals (annually) (which we appear to agree on) and where unusual growth is noted, expert advice should be sought, especially where a public hazard may be involved. QED

gozunda wrote: »

Practically I would leave the tree settle and for the small root system to reestablish - the tree can do this itself. Leave the water shoots for now but once you are happy that the tree is not showing any other signs of stress then remove them.

I again would have to ask what you mean by "small root system" on a 200 year old tree and by what means you feel that it will reestablish itself when damaged? What if there is another storm before these roots you talk of reestablish themselves. I have to agree though to leave the shoots there as they may be important in a future professional assessment.

Oldtree

wayoutwest wrote: »

Are there any qualified arborists on this forum that could indicate the rough cost of an inspection for a single tree like OAP's Sycamore?

I would suggest contacting the below and ask for the details of a local arborist and give them a ring and ask how much such an inspection would be.

BreadnBuddha

Oldtree wrote: »

I would suggest contacting the below and ask for the details of a local arborist and give them a ring and ask how much such an inspection would be.

I'd suggest pulling out the phone book and finding an arborist nearby if you decide you should consult one. Calling a trade representative association like that is like calling SIMI to find a mechanic. Membership and stated aims does nothing to ensure quality of service.

Oldtree always suggest Goodwin Arborist, claim no association to them etc. That's well and good, but you can't fault people for having their suspicions. Would you not just tell people to speak with AN arborist? You say you're NOT a member of the arborists association, does that make you somehow less qualified to provide professional advice or opinion? I wouldn't believe so. So leave aside Goodwin Arborist, a commercial company first and foremost and suggest people just speak with an arborist instead. It doesn't matter if the owner of Goodwins is the national rep for the arborists association - that doesn't matter. A qualified arborist is who people need to speak with in some cases, not a specific company or representative body.

Also, stop banging on about liability, law and how only an arborist can provide a professional assessment. Often people just want common sense experience based input from others. Before your profession existed and felling licenses were mandatory requirements folks shared their knowledge, learned from each other and made it work.

I wish you could understand that people would like to be able to get open and easygoing input from professionals like yourself here without all the caveats, ass covering and promotion of your profession, whether you would say you've a vested interest or not.

And just to be really clear on this, I'm not attacking you personally in any way. I think you're being helpful in your own way, but maybe you can just relax a bit and be a little less black and white with the rest of us. Every time someone talks about dropping a tree here you bring the fire and brimstone stuff on them!

TomOnBoard

O.P. asked for 'any advice' in relation to this problem. He did not just ask why the shoots described might grow all of a sudden.

Therefore, all the advice given by Oldtree, especially that relating to a) potential liability if any part of the tree falls onto the public road, b) the need for felling licence in the event of having to fell it, c) the need to obtain a professional opinion from an arborist as well as his explanation of the possible causes of the basal shoots is entirely appropriate in helping the O.P.

Other advice given is also useful, where it is relevant to the O.P.'s situation. In that regard, the storms of Winter 2013 appear to be entirely irrelevant to the basal growth issue, as that growth is now a metre high and clearly predates those storms. Whether the shoots are in fact 1 or even up to 3 years old might be useful to establish, as that would help the O.P. to better understand when exactly they started growing, thereby pinpointing the year in which any precipitating damage might have occurred.

The negativity that seems to come so easily to some posters when sound perspectives or arguments are posted by knowledgeable contributors is not helpful, and distracts from a resolution of the O.P.'s problem.

After all, his Mother told him she has concerns about the tree. One should ignore one's Mammy's concerns at one's peril.:D

gozunda

Oldtree wrote: »

I would suggest contacting the below and ask for the details of a local arborist and give them a ring and ask how much such an inspection would be.

You still at it? I rest my case....

gozunda

TomOnBoard wrote: »

O.P. asked for 'any advice' in relation to this problem. He did not just ask why the shoots described might grow all of a sudden.

Therefore, all the advice given by Oldtree, especially that relating to a) potential liability if any part of the tree falls onto the public road, b) the need for felling licence in the event of having to fell it, c) the need to obtain a professional opinion from an arborist as well as his explanation of the possible causes of the basal shoots is entirely appropriate in helping the O.P.

Other advice given is also useful, where it is relevant to the O.P.'s situation. In that regard, the storms of Winter 2013 appear to be entirely irrelevant to the basal growth issue, as that growth is now a metre high and clearly predates those storms. Whether the shoots are in fact 1 or even up to 3 years old might be useful to establish, as that would help the O.P. to better understand when exactly they started growing, thereby pinpointing the year in which any precipitating damage might have occurred.
The negativity that seems to come so easily to some posters when sound perspectives or arguments are posted by knowledgeable contributors is not helpful, and distracts from a resolution of the O.P.'s problem.
After all, his Mother told him she has concerns about the tree. One should ignore one's Mammy's concerns at one's peril.:D

TOB

Reply of the OP in relation to non topic replies...

O.A.P wrote: »

I know about the felling licence and never asked here about how or when one is needed.
The question was why would a 200 year old sycamore tree start sending shoots from its base.
I thought maybe its because its dying and had hoped that ye had loads of other reasons why this happens.

Unfortunately another poster whilst providing one reason for such shoots repeatedly went on and on advocating / advertising a single organisation without request.

Of interest the point about the storms was raised before the OP clarified about the estimated age of the shoots.

As above the OP had not requested a resolution to a problem - he asked for specific information. Such unsolicited repetitions for practically every other reply whilst repeating the same mantra ad nauseum is neither helpful nor useful.

gk5000

Oldtree wrote: »

I am an arborist. Suggesting that you hire an arborist is not a vested interest as I in no way benefit from such a hiring. It is a requirement under the law as mentioned in my above post, and as such my advice is informed advice. If you had a sick animal would suggesting you get a vet be a vested interest if I were a vet??

Ps I am not a member of the Arboricultural Association, nor do I have shares in them:D

Seems strange then to have them in your public profile, while posting like an ambulance chaser for them. Imagine a guard posting on the motors forum constantly going on about the speed limits.
Oldtree

Registered User

Last Activity: Today 13:42

• About Me
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  Do your trees a favour and contact an arborist.
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  http://www.trees.org.uk/aa/branches/Ireland-IR.html

Oldtree

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

I'd suggest pulling out the phone book and finding an arborist nearby if you decide you should consult one. Calling a trade representative association like that is like calling SIMI to find a mechanic. Membership and stated aims does nothing to ensure quality of service.

Oldtree always suggest Goodwin Arborist, claim no association to them etc. That's well and good, but you can't fault people for having their suspicions. Would you not just tell people to speak with AN arborist? You say you're NOT a member of the arborists association, does that make you somehow less qualified to provide professional advice or opinion? I wouldn't believe so. So leave aside Goodwin Arborist, a commercial company first and foremost and suggest people just speak with an arborist instead. It doesn't matter if the owner of Goodwins is the national rep for the arborists association - that doesn't matter. A qualified arborist is who people need to speak with in some cases, not a specific company or representative body.

Also, stop banging on about liability, law and how only an arborist can provide a professional assessment. Often people just want common sense experience based input from others. Before your profession existed and felling licenses were mandatory requirements folks shared their knowledge, learned from each other and made it work.

I wish you could understand that people would like to be able to get open and easygoing input from professionals like yourself here without all the caveats, ass covering and promotion of your profession, whether you would say you've a vested interest or not.

And just to be really clear on this, I'm not attacking you personally in any way. I think you're being helpful in your own way, but maybe you can just relax a bit and be a little less black and white with the rest of us. Every time someone talks about dropping a tree here you bring the fire and brimstone stuff on them!

I merely state the facts of the law. I don't understand the animosity to practical and legal advices, however yes please get out the phone book to contact an arborist (its such a good idea I will add that to the below)

Oldtree

gk5000 wrote: »

Seems strange then to have them in your public profile, while posting like an ambulance chaser for them. Imagine a guard posting on the motors forum constantly going on about the speed limits.
Oldtree

Registered User

Last Activity: Today 13:42

• About Me
• Statistics

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  Do your trees a favour and contact an arborist.
  The Irish branch of The Arboricultural Association
  http://www.trees.org.uk/aa/branches/Ireland-IR.html

I really don't understand your resistance to proper practical and legal advice either

Oldtree

gozunda wrote: »

You still at it? I rest my case....

Been here for years and I am not going away

Oldtree

gozunda wrote: »

Such unsolicited repetitions for practically every other reply whilst repeating the same mantra ad nauseum is neither helpful nor useful.

I would say the same of bad ill-informed tree advice.;)

gk5000

Shoots can either be normal or caused by stress or damage.

See if the tree seems normal apart from that, and puts out leaves normally.

"This is a phenomenon of natural asexual spread, also known in plants as vegetative reproduction" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basal_shoot

So its a bit like the rich man with the ear hair, fed up with the dolly birds sponsoring something so his name can live forever - Carnegie Hall, Michael Smurfit Business school....

gozunda

Oldtree wrote: »

I would say the same of bad ill-informed tree advice.;)

You know what I agree. Again - the OP was not seeking "advice" but I note that despite that you like giving the same advice again and again. "Bad - ill formed" applies to apparent vested interests. I would suggest you give it a rest.

Oldtree

gk5000 wrote: »

Shoots can either be normal or caused by stress or damage.

See if the tree seems normal apart from that, and puts out leaves normally.

"This is a phenomenon of natural asexual spread, also known in plants as vegetative reproduction" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basal_shoot

So its a bit like the rich man with the ear hair, fed up with the dolly birds sponsoring something so his name can live forever - Carnegie Hall, Michael Smurfit Business school....

Thank you for the links. I have done a lot of vegetative cloning esp with willows and poplar and house and garden plants, some layering and grafting too.

In the op case the shoots are not normal as they have not appeared before and been noticed by the op, so they must by your analysis be caused by stress and damage. Therefore the seat of the damage must be ascertained.....

I don't understand the bit about the business school.

Oldtree

gozunda wrote: »

You know what I agree. Again - the OP was not seeking "advice" but I note that despite that you like giving the same advice again and again. "Bad - ill formed" applies to apparent vested interests. I would suggest you give it a rest.

Thank you I am not tired yet and I will always have time to give sound advice here when I see the need.

gozunda

Oldtree wrote: »

Thank you I am not tired yet and I will always have time to give sound advice here when I see the need.

'Sound' by whose definition? Yours? Ok I will take that as read...

But if you do wish to answer questions - there is one outstanding issue that you could give information on

I am sharing information on how to easily contact an organisation that have a ethos the I fully subscribe to. My reason for not being a member is not one I choose to share with you.

Go on - do share I'm sure there are several posters who are very interested as to the reason why....