"Drivers caught on mobiles to face €1,000 fine"

expectationlost

rovoagho wrote: »

Hadn't someone already posted it in the thread?

did you listen to the segment
I'd like a link to the law they were discussing

expectationlost

non-sensationalist coverage on new regulation on use of mobile phones for texting by @ConorAAIreland on Kathryn Thomas Show on RTE Radio http://www.rte.ie/radio1/the-john-murray-show/programmes/2014/0415/608981-the-john-murray-show-tuesday-15-april-2014/?clipid=1534802

ironclaw

expectationlost wrote: »

@ConorAAIreland aka Conor Faughnan

Probably one of the single biggest problems with Irish motoring in my opinion. Regularly makes erroneous reports on the usage of lanes on motorways etc etc. Does the man even have any formal eduction in transport systems? His opinion has about as much weight as we all do here but yet he feeds the masses as if its gospel.

expectationlost

ironclaw wrote: »

Probably one of the single biggest problems with Irish motoring in my opinion. Regularly makes erroneous reports on the usage of lanes on motorways etc etc. Does the man even have any formal eduction in transport systems? His opinion has about as much weight as we all do here but yet he feeds the masses as if its gospel.

do you think he said anything wrong about this new regulation

ironclaw

expectationlost wrote: »

do you think he said anything wrong about this new regulation

Wouldn't actually bother listening to him to be honest as he frankly annoys me to that extent. I have no issue with opinion and debate but he often states opinion as fact and is called in as an 'expert witness' or 'industry expert' Does he have a formal background in anything he discuss's? I doubt it. Happy to be corrected on that mind you.

All said, its a d dangerous mix as there are people out there who would see 'AA' and think 'Must be 100% correct' and coupled it with 'I heard it on the radio so it must be true'

Edit: Just listening back here, why is he debating or giving opinion on law? Thats for suitably qualified people to do.

CiniO

So it's still OK to use CB-Radio microphone in your hand to chat with someone when driving?

zenno

CiniO wrote: »

So it's still OK to use CB-Radio microphone in your hand to chat with someone when driving?

I'd say the garda could still use discretion with the use of a CB radio and mic, and I'd say he could probably do you as well. I'd love to know myself.

QSK to anyone that knows.

murphyebass

wil wrote: »

Nobody mentioned struggling, point completely missed, pull over.
When concentrating on a call, many people don't notice anything wrong, but invariably when I pass a car that is driving erratically, poorly, oddly, there is a guy/gal on the phone oblivious to all around them. I'll wave next time, when you eventually notice, know it's me.:D

Any calls I ever take, or rarely make, hands free, are short, to the point, caller made driving aware, and difficult decisions left till when I can afford to be safely distracted.
The last thing a caller needs to hear is the sound of crashing.
A moving car is not another office, and employers shouldn't assume it and should actively take responsibility for it.

I am not against having handsfree calling, quite the opposite, all cars should be permafitted so no driver should ever be excused not using handsfree.
However, just like every other thing in the car - radio, cd player, glove box, you don't assume 10 minutes spent rooting in the glove box, or fiddling with your play list etc is condusive to safe driving. If it takes more than a few seconds of your visual attention or your undivided attention, do it when you are stopped.

Do you find it difficult to talk to your passenger/s?

I have a Nokia car kit. There's a button beside the gear stick. You press it once to answer and press again to hang up. Not rocket science.

To be clear I absolutely disagree with people being using a phone to their ear or texting. Stupid, negligent and downright inconsiderate towards other road users.

Ps.. I wont be stopping using the Nokia kit. The Gardaí don't enforce the phone rules as they stand nevermind trying to figure out if i driver is jut singing to the radio or on the car kit. Its pointless. Another unimplemented rule for the sake of a new road safety advert.

Cantona's Collars

Many cars these days have built in hands free systems,unless you have a stone age phone,it's childs play to connect it via bluetooth.You see people with cars/suv's worth ten's of thousands yet still can't manage to get the handsfree set up on them.
What I find is gas is the people who are driving along with the phone held to their chin on loudspeaker - this is not hands free folks.

expectationlost

ironclaw wrote: »

Wouldn't actually bother listening to him to be honest as he frankly annoys me to that extent. I have no issue with opinion and debate but he often states opinion as fact and is called in as an 'expert witness' or 'industry expert' Does he have a formal background in anything he discuss's? I doubt it. Happy to be corrected on that mind you.

All said, its a d dangerous mix as there are people out there who would see 'AA' and think 'Must be 100% correct' and coupled it with 'I heard it on the radio so it must be true'

Edit: Just listening back here, why is he debating or giving opinion on law? Thats for suitably qualified people to do.

it was slim pickings in terms of competent non-alarmist coverage of this regulation, I too have reluctant to cite the overused Conor Faughnan but he was miles better then Anton Savage that's all I'll say.

Days 298

I drove unaccompanied as a learner. Punishment was €1000 apparently but no points. Not once was a gard bothered enough to pull me over and when I look now they probably should have.

My view and the view of many I have talked to is this is "good" in a way. Blatant texting while on the motorway will have you pulled before a judge and the gard can announce your attempt at winning a darwin award. Changing the song on my phone or checking a text in traffic is going to warrant a smaller fine. Its not as blunt as points. If implemented much fairer than fining two totally different degrees of law breaking. Hopefully something similar for taking phone calls too. Different scenarios and degrees of danger involved should have different punishments and fines. Penalty points are too blunt for minor offences and not harsh enough for stupidity. Shame our courts are jam packed.

That said while listening to the radio ( I know distracted driving jail me!) with the lovely gards announcing speeding kills yesterday I was overtaken by a gard going circa 150-160, no sirens. Remove their exemptions and then Ill take them seriously.

ironclaw

Days 298 wrote: »

Remove their exemptions and then Ill take them seriously.

Why? Its common practise to not announce themselves if going to something that is in progress i.e. A house robbery etc. Granted, they should be on blues etc when coming into traffic or a junction, but I really see no need for a 'them and us' attitude. I'm damn glad they had their exemptions when my house was being sniffed out. They were there in about 2 mins flat. No sirens to warn the scum off and they actually picked them up down the road as a result.

Whilst I'd be a harsh critic of the standard Garda driving, I'm pretty glad they have the exemptions for when it actually matters. Communication is key in that line of work and remove that, we're all snookered.

Days 298

ironclaw wrote: »

Why? Its common practise to not announce themselves if going to something that is in progress i.e. A house robbery etc. Granted, they should be on blues etc when coming into traffic or a junction, but I really see no need for a 'them and us' attitude. I'm damn glad they had their exemptions when my house was being sniffed out. They were there in about 2 mins flat. No sirens to warn the scum off and they actually picked them up down the road as a result.

Whilst I'd be a harsh critic of the standard Garda driving, I'm pretty glad they have the exemptions for when it actually matters. Communication is key in that line of work and remove that, we're all snookered.

The exemptions when not on call. Of course they need some exemptions when on call. The incident I was talking about happened on a three lane n road. Blue lights without siren would have been nicer than have a car blow past and of course there are those who switch lanes with little warning who are the primary reason everyone cant go quicker who could hit them. Swings and roundabouts. No two scenarios are the same. Phone use is one exemption that I cant fathom, all phones have loud speak ffs.

Senecio

Was overtaken today by a Dublin Bus with the driver on a mobile phone. Something needs to be done.

rovoagho

Indeed, it's the end of the civilised world as we know it. It should be up there with rape and murder on the statute books. Bring back stoning. Etc.

ironclaw

Days 298 wrote: »

The exemptions when not on call. Of course they need some exemptions when on call. The incident I was talking about happened on a three lane n road. Blue lights without siren would have been nicer than have a car blow past and of course there are those who switch lanes with little warning who are the primary reason everyone cant go quicker who could hit them. Swings and roundabouts. No two scenarios are the same. Phone use is one exemption that I cant fathom, all phones have loud speak ffs.

Fair enough points, but I have near perfect hearing and I'd find it difficult to use a standard phone (In a tough case because of work etc) on loudspeaker without it being extremely close to my ear. Likewise, the end user would find it difficult to hear me. I won't wear ear buds because your dropping your acoustic spatial awareness a good deal. Also from a security perspective in terms of the Gardai, you don't want whats coming in over the Tetra system blasted out on a handsfree. Any Bluetooth link etc in a Garda car would again be a security risk.

I really don't see any issue with a Garda using a phone or Tetra radio if the said call is in relation to their line of work. I feel many people who give out about it feel a 'Well, why can't I do it if they can' which is playground stuff in my eyes. No contest on the standard of driving though, 90% of it is abysmal.

No Pants

ironclaw wrote: »

I feel many people who give out about it feel a 'Well, why can't I do it if they can' which is playground stuff in my eyes. No contest on the standard of driving though, 90% of it is abysmal.

It's not that, it's more if it's considered such a safety issue for every motorist, how come it's not a safety issue for them?

I agree with you on the general standard of Garda driving, their willful ignorance of parking regulations, driving in the incorrect lane, sporadic use of indicators...

expectationlost

this start tmw http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10278326/ conor faughnan on this at 55 minnutes

can use satnav

worded

Nappy state

wetdarknight2

Think its a good idea. I was coming for the mart recently and another driver who was on his mobile nearly ran in to me. Very dangerous.

bladebrew

I saw some numpty in a tractor on the M8 yesterday on his mobile driving up the hard shoulder he should have been dragged out of the tractor for that!
I was also on a Dublin to Cork bus a few weeks back, the driver was on his mobile from the Airport through the port tunnel back into Dublin, then at the bus station said we are required by law to wear our seat belt! I was tempted to report him because there's no excuse,
A woman in a Focus tried to wedge her car between the van I was driving and an artic a week ago on a roundabout, she then decided that was to silly, drove off then drifted across to the left with no indicator on, I overtook and there she was on the phone,
The fine should be €2000 but with no enforcement people seem to do what they want,

expectationlost

lots of incorrect media coverage of this

thejournal a online news org can't even manage to link to the regulation! pathetic

dashcamdanny

Zascar wrote: »

Absolutely. Holding phone to face, or texting while driving - totally stupid and punish away. But when in a proper cradle with bluetooth - that should be allowed - for calls and gps. As long as you are not typing a text while in the cradle or brosing facebook while on the motorway etc.

Statistics and research would say otherwise though.

I cant post links, (because of some new BS rule boards have) but a quick search will give you the facts on it.

PrzemoF

ironclaw wrote: »

So, what about those of us that have a GPS App running in a cradle? Am I not allowed even touch my phone? Is that 'accessing information'? Best of luck trying to convince a Garda it was a GPS App. I run a good few custom Apps I've written myself and some look like fb etc from a distance.

I do the same, but .... you know you're not supposed to play with gps while driving? Every single device I saw has a bold warning about it.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

There'll be no enforcement at all. Haven't seen a checkpoint in years and rarely see guards pulling people for speeding. The cynic in me says this is a pre-election ploy to try and win a few more votes without actually having to do much.

ba_barabus

dashcamdanny wrote: »

I cant post links, (because of some new BS rule boards have)

Huh?

dr.fuzzenstein

PrzemoF wrote: »

I do the same, but .... you know you're not supposed to play with gps while driving? Every single device I saw has a bold warning about it.

Get a tablet then, sorted.

jack presley

Has it been confirmed that changing music, podcasts etc. is now a no no as well?

ironclaw

jack presley wrote: »

Has it been confirmed that changing music, podcasts etc. is now a no no as well?

Not trying to self promote, but I think this should be sticky'd:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90168798&postcount=18

I'm not read in law, but its fairly black and white in the explanation and SI

expectationlost

again nowhere in the new law is the phrase "accessing information" http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/2014/en.si.2014.0178.pdf

ironclaw

expectationlost wrote: »

again nowhere in the new law is the phrase "accessing information" http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/2014/en.si.2014.0178.pdf

Original act does however if you are holding / supporting the phone:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/act/pub/0023/sec0003.html#sec3

But the new SI, from my reading, doesn't make it an offence unless you are specifically sending or receiving an SMS, MMS or email. The loop hole being that now its an offence to do so even if the phone is cradled. Everything else is ok by my reading e.g. Music, Facebook, GPS.

They probably should have just used the phrase 'accessing information' and be done with it. Would have covered every single function on a modern phone by my looks. But instead they made it narrow and concise to cover SMS, MMS and email only.

expectationlost

ironclaw wrote: »

Original act does however if you are holding / supporting the phone:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/act/pub/0023/sec0003.html#sec3
information

no it doesn't
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/act/pub/0023/print.html
again nowhere in the new secondary legislation law or primary legislation is the phrase "accessing information"
despite what the Irish Times and thejournal claim http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/drivers-caught-on-mobiles-now-face-increased-fine-of-1-000-1.1780046

ironclaw wrote: »

But the new SI, from my reading, doesn't make it an offence unless you are specifically sending or receiving an SMS, MMS or email. The loop hole being that now its an offence to do so even if the phone is cradled. Everything else is ok by my reading e.g. Music, Facebook, GPS.

They probably should have just used the phrase 'accessing information' and be done with it. Would have covered every single function on a modern phone by my looks. But instead they made it narrow and concise to cover SMS, MMS and email only.

Kensington

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

There'll be no enforcement at all. Haven't seen a checkpoint in years and rarely see guards pulling people for speeding. The cynic in me says this is a pre-election ploy to try and win a few more votes without actually having to do much.

Garda speed trap van set up on Peter's Road approaching Walkinstown Roundabout all this morning.
In rush hour traffic which is stop-start on that road, I doubt very much they were checking speed, so can only assume they were looking for people on their phones, presumably using the onboard van cameras for evidence?

ironclaw

Kensington wrote: »

Garda speed trap van set up on Peter's Road approaching Walkinstown Roundabout all this morning.
In rush hour traffic which is stop-start on that road, I doubt very much they were checking speed, so can only assume they were looking for people on their phones, presumably using the onboard van cameras for evidence?

Can't be used for such purposes. At least to the best of my knowledge. Anecdotally I heard of someone getting done when not wearing a seat belt. I took it with a large helping of salt however.

Steve

ironclaw wrote: »

Can't be used for such purposes. At least to the best of my knowledge. Anecdotally I heard of someone getting done when not wearing a seat belt. I took it with a large helping of salt however.

Are you saying a Garda is precluded from doing anything when they witness a crime just because they are sitting in a speed van?

That sounds absurd.

ironclaw

Steve wrote: »

Are you saying a Garda is precluded from doing anything when they witness a crime just because they are sitting in a speed van?

That sounds absurd.

No, I'm referring to utilising the camera in that manner. You can manually take a photo, but you'd need a photo of someone using their phone. Not an entirely unlikely use of the system but a little beyond the usual Garda enforcement plans. Put it this way, I'd be shocked if that was what they were doing.

Paulw

ironclaw wrote: »

You can manually take a photo, but you'd need a photo of someone using their phone.

Go to any traffic court hearing. No photo is required at all, just the Garda testimony.

If the Garda sees you, then he can cite you for it, and then let the judge decide.

zurbfoundation

Kensington wrote: »

Garda speed trap van set up on Peter's Road approaching Walkinstown Roundabout all this morning.
In rush hour traffic which is stop-start on that road, I doubt very much they were checking speed, so can only assume they were looking for people on their phones, presumably using the onboard van cameras for evidence?

where i live i can go a year without meeting a checkpoint - i have met 5 in the last 10-12 days - what ever they are targeting they are putting the effort in thats for sure.

Steve

zurbfoundation wrote: »

where i live i can go a year without meeting a checkpoint - i have met 5 in the last 10-12 days - what ever they are targeting they are putting the effort in thats for sure.

They announced - in fact made a big deal of it - that they would be targeting people on phones this week and over the weekend.

I think it's a safe assumption that they are carrying out what they said they would do.

Stheno

Steve wrote: »

They announced - in fact made a big deal of it - that they would be targeting people on phones this week and over the weekend.

I think it's a safe assumption that they are carrying out what they said they would do.

Apparently they caught over 1200 people during the weekend!

dr.fuzzenstein

Paulw wrote: »

Go to any traffic court hearing. No photo is required at all, just the Garda testimony.

If the Garda sees you, then he can cite you for it, and then let the judge decide.

The problem is that if you make any wrong movement at all and a Gard is looking for just anyone to do because he wants to fill his quota, you're done for and instead of being a few quid down and 2 points up, you can be in the hole to the tune of a grand.
All a Gard has to say is "Right, you where on the phone, I saw it!" and when it comes to court, you will look like a complete tool just trying to get out of a ticket with lame excuses:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057092351
For the next month I will not wave, scratch my ears, raise an arm or even take my hand off the wheel.
After that normality should have resumed, i.e. Gards more interested in breakfast rolls than issuing tickets.
Eventually I will invest in an car cam.

pogsick

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

The problem is that if you make any wrong movement at all and a Gard is looking for just anyone to do because he wants to fill his quota, you're done for and instead of being a few quid down and 2 points up, you can be in the hole to the tune of a grand.
All a Gard has to say is "Right, you where on the phone, I saw it!" and when it comes to court, you will look like a complete tool just trying to get out of a ticket with lame excuses:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057092351
For the next month I will not wave, scratch my ears, raise an arm or even take my hand off the wheel.
After that normality should have resumed, i.e. Gards more interested in breakfast rolls than issuing tickets.
Eventually I will invest in an car cam.

Can you provide your source that states that Garda have qoutas?

_Kaiser_

pogsick wrote: »

Can you provide your source that states that Garda have qoutas?

It's frequently denied but very obvious!

Here's an example:

I worked in Navan for almost 5 years. The Garda station from Navan is directly across from the post office. Between the two is a roundabout. Double lines line the road outside the Post Office. Although there is parking RIGHT ACROSS THE ROAD, many regularly just mount the kerb and leave it with the harzard on while they go post their letters/collect their dole/whatever

For most of the quarter Gardai would walk and drive by without comment. The last week of the quarter though everyone would get tickets/fines

Now you'll no doubt claim heresay, but I'll take my personally witnessed evidence thanks

pogsick

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

It's frequently denied but very obvious!

Here's an example:

I worked in Navan for almost 5 years. The Garda station from Navan is directly across from the post office. Between the two is a roundabout. Double lines line the road outside the Post Office. Although there is parking RIGHT ACROSS THE ROAD, many regularly just mount the kerb and leave it with the harzard on while they go post their letters/collect their dole/whatever

For most of the quarter Gardai would walk and drive by without comment. The last week of the quarter though everyone would get tickets/fines

Now you'll no doubt claim heresay, but I'll take my personally witnessed evidence thanks

So just to clarify for everyone, you have no source?

Chris_Heilong

I would be worried about being accused falsely. As there is no onus on the Guard to show proof it is totally open to abuses.

dr.fuzzenstein

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

I would be worried about being accused falsely. As there is no onus on the Guard to show proof it is totally open to abuses.

That is the point, not quotas!
My point being, a Gard, who may not have been very active for a period of time, might say to himself "hhmmhh, better "catch" 10 people, so it looks like I'm doing something"
So he stops 10 random people who might have been waving at someone or scratching their ear.
Gard says "Right, you where on the phone, court appearance!"
The judge doesn't know the reality of the situation, all he knows is that there is a Gard in front of him who says "yes, yerhonor, I personally witnessed this person using a mobile communications device while in operation of a mechanically propelled vea-hicle"
So when Joe Soap takes the stand and says "But...but...I was only scratching my EAR! Honest!"
The judge will say "Bahaahahahahaaaa!!! That's a good one! 1000 Euro fine and licence gone for 6 months"

rovoagho

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

The problem is that if you make any wrong movement at all and a Gard is looking for just anyone to do because he wants to fill his quota, you're done for and instead of being a few quid down and 2 points up, you can be in the hole to the tune of a grand.
All a Gard has to say is "Right, you where on the phone, I saw it!" and when it comes to court, you will look like a complete tool just trying to get out of a ticket with lame excuses:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057092351
For the next month I will not wave, scratch my ears, raise an arm or even take my hand off the wheel.
After that normality should have resumed, i.e. Gards more interested in breakfast rolls than issuing tickets.
Eventually I will invest in an car cam.

I've seen several threads about this, both on Boards and elsewhere. It's a serious problem. I'm installing a 2nd dashcam in my car, pointing in, just in case some Guard with a chip on his shoulder gets any ideas. They're rare, but there's a few of them out there, and the new intake - which we have again now - are the worst.

ZENER

I haven't read the entire thread so not sure if anyone has suggested it or questioned its legality, what if you had a dash cam recording the driver ?

Another thread in Motors questioned the "forensic" quality of the recordings but how would you fare if you showed a judge or local sergeant the recording of the period leading up to the accusation of the Garda which proved your weren't on your phone etc. ?

That said I don't think the threat of a 1000 euro fine has been heeded by many drivers. Just back from the City Center via the M1 and spotted loads of people blatantly using their phones not even attempting to conceal the fact !! Just goes to prove, the threat of prosecution means diddly - it's actual enforcement that deters.

Ken

rovoagho

There's no issue with recording yourself or public scenes with a dashcam. A Guard may ask to to switch it off, but by then the damage would be done.

I really dont think that penalty is warranted for this,

Is talking to your passengers and changing the radio or sat-nav at the same time not just as distracting? why are phones singles out as a killer?

Theres people on here looking for 6-24 month bans here,

Now im not a driver,this is just an opinion,if i did drive Id probally find eating crisps just as dangerous which a lot of people do but if you have a phone your nearly a murderer!