"Drivers caught on mobiles to face €1,000 fine"

Dades

I wonder which is more illegal - keying in a location on a SatNav or driving with a map in your lap?

Vaguey McVague.

ZENER

aaronc182 wrote: »

I really dont think that penalty is warranted for this,

Is talking to your passengers and changing the radio or sat-nav at the same time not just as distracting? why are phones singles out as a killer?

Theres people on here looking for 6-24 month bans here,

Now im not a driver,this is just an opinion,if i did drive Id probally find eating crisps just as dangerous which a lot of people do but if you have a phone your nearly a murderer!

ROTR say you should be in control of the car, i.e. both hands on the wheel at all times etc etc etc as is taught in driving schools. While talking on a phone held to your ear isn't that much more distracting that using a hands free IMO texting or tweeting is !

Have a look at this.

This is an extreme case I know but still an indication of what the rules are trying to prevent. Who's to say this hasn't already happened here ?

Ken

well I agree there taking a 'sefle' or tweeting is pretty dangerous and most likely has caused crashed here in some way but if your a decent driver talking on the phone wouldnt be as distracting as changing dials in the car id imagine.

I suppose the easiest way to stop texting and tweeting is ban phones altogether

years ago old exec cars had phones in them are they classed as mobiles under this law i wonder?

expectationlost

Dades wrote: »

I wonder which is more illegal - keying in a location on a SatNav or driving with a map in your lap?

Vaguey McVague.

nothing vague about if you get seen driving carelesses with a map on your lap you could get done for careless driving

Days 298

No eating an ice burger when driving. Does this mean there are no penalty points for phone use now? Seeing as these headlines of €1000 fines for learners driving unaccompanied yet the gards turn a blind eye. I can imagine this wont be enforced at all either but for one news grabbing weekend a year. Verbal lashing instead Id say. How can a court fine people with little means who are state dependent big fines? Jail time! You dont even get that for stealing a car and driving it uninsured! €50 on the spot fine would be fairer, easier to implement and cut the need to go to court.

Steve

Dades wrote: »

I wonder which is more illegal - keying in a location on a SatNav or driving with a map in your lap?

Vaguey McVague.

I would argue that a map on your lap is safer - at least then you can't drop a lit cigarette between your legs...

In fairness, and back on topic, I am reluctant to believe there are Guards out there that are just 'out to get anyone'.
If you are polite when stopped and / or questioned, they will be polite back - if you are foot stompy and arrogant with them then understandably they will be less inclined to overlook anything.

Roland.B.

it may seem harsh the 1k euro fine but theres a reason

Roland.B.

it saves lifes

Roland.B.

but it doese get annoying when you get a fine for nothing like theres a message in your way and you delete it or whatever .

dr.fuzzenstein

Roland.B. wrote: »

it may seem harsh the 1k euro fine but theres a reason

The reason is "Irish enforcement".
Come up with a law, don't enforce it, no one cares. Introduce harsher penalties, still no enforcement, still no one cares.
Finally come up with outlandish fines of a zillion, squillion, gazillion, watch the national uproar, still don't enforce it and give it a week till no one cares.
Then stand around and wonder loudly why everyone ignores the law and that you can't understand why.
Rinse and repeat.
When people point out that other countries have actual enforcement, point out that you have a consultants report proving Ireland is following best international practice and what do those Germans and swedes know about keeping order anyway.
Ireland, deliberately doing it wrong and being proud of it.

corktina

this x1000

Going Forward

I can't understand what the fuss is about.

The usual hysteria caused by a couple of accidents.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2387903/Using-mobile-phone-car-does-NOT-make-driving-dangerous-claims-study.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2387903/Using-mobile-phone-car-does-NOT-make-driving-dangerous-claims-study.html

challengemaster

First thing I notice is that study was conducted in the US, where they're legally allowed to use the phone while driving in the majority of states. Chances are being used to driving on the phone influenced the outcome.

beggars_bush

The amount of people driving around town texting is scary.

Both stopped at lights and while driving.

Need more unmarked squad cars and nail the feckers

michael999999

Phones are to be confiscated from any driver involved in an accident in England!

wandatowell

beggars_bush wrote: »

Need more unmarked squad cars and nail the feckers

There probably isn't even a need for the squad car. Just have a plain clothed Garda walking down any Main St and he could spot people in an instant.

Was stopped at a pedestrian crossing the other week and a driver with her head stuck in a phone was coming towards me, had to beep the horn to stop the pedestrian from crossing. The lady was completely oblivious to the fact she was approaching/drove through a Ped crossing. Fcukin deadly.

dashcamdanny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7vAqX-mIXI

_Kaiser_

wandatowell wrote: »

Was stopped at a pedestrian crossing the other week and a driver with her head stuck in a phone was coming towards me, had to beep the horn to stop the pedestrian from crossing. The lady was completely oblivious to the fact she was approaching/drove through a Ped crossing. Fcukin deadly.

I agree, but the other side of this is pedestrians walking around looking into their phone and not paying attention too (as in that ad on the telly for example).

Then you have the Irish pedestrian's habit of crossing wherever they feel like regardless of traffic or lights. Add this to the former and it's no wonder there's accidents.

beggars_bush

beggars_bush wrote: »

The amount of people driving around town texting is scary.

Both stopped at lights

What's the problem with that? Car is stopped so what's wrong with using the phone?

EazyD

Justin Incalculable Statue wrote: »

What's the problem with that? Car is stopped so what's wrong with using the phone?

Whether your in motion or stopped, the offence is using a mobile phone while operating a vehicle.

JillyQ

EazyD wrote: »

Whether your in motion or stopped, the offence is using a mobile phone while operating a vehicle.

Thats the part that most people dont seem to get.

jackofalltrades

Going Forward wrote: »

I can't understand what the fuss is about.

The usual hysteria caused by a couple of accidents.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2387903/Using-mobile-phone-car-does-NOT-make-driving-dangerous-claims-study.html

That's just one study.
There are plenty more that show a link between using your mobile phone and reduced driving performance. Here's two for example.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa1204142

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199702133360701#t=abstract

JillyQ

JillyQ wrote: »

Thats the part that most people dont seem to get.

That may be the case but it's beyond stupid imo, there is no reason someone shouldn't be able to sue their phone while stopped.

EazyD

Justin Incalculable Statue wrote: »

That may be the case but it's beyond stupid imo, there is no reason someone shouldn't be able to sue their phone while stopped.

I'm assuming that you mean using the phone while parked up? Because that's perfectly fine, otherwise it's not

djimi

Justin Incalculable Statue wrote: »

That may be the case but it's beyond stupid imo, there is no reason someone shouldn't be able to sue their phone while stopped.

Whether you are stopped or not, you are supposed to be paying full attention to the road at all times.

JillyQ

Justin Incalculable Statue wrote: »

That may be the case but it's beyond stupid imo, there is no reason someone shouldn't be able to sue their phone while stopped.

You are supposed to be parked up. You are supposed to be in full control of your car while you are driving it, be it stopped @ lights etc or not

ironclaw

Never really understood the mad desire to be on a phone when driving. If you are that important / busy / need to be be contacted you'll have (And be able to afford) a handsfree. If not, why have your phone out at all?

Often a 5 second phonecall would save about 10 texts. People just seem to do anything to avoid a phonecall these days.

dashcamdanny

ironclaw wrote: »

Never really understood the mad desire to be on a phone when driving. If you are that important / busy / need to be be contacted you'll have (And be able to afford) a handsfree. If not, why have your phone out at all?

Often a 5 second phonecall would save about 10 texts. People just seem to do anything to avoid a phonecall these days.

When driving up and down the the N7 daily from a high driving position , the amount of fools I see trying to text and drive is scary. Rush hour car commuters being the biggest offenders . Some even use the knees to steer. I would go as far to say that 1 in 30 drivers are tapping a smart phone while driving 100kph at 6.30pm. Rushing past me while I am in the left.

They seem to bounce from one white line to another , traveling 20 or 30 meters at a time, blind.

To be completely honest. The only way to stop this is cameras on the roads.

SpaceTime

I had boss who used to go mental if I didn't answer calls while driving and if I was unaware of emails while driving.

I ended up having a major 'discussion' about how dangerous and illegal it was and how if they

I think people need to be able to let calls roll to voicemail when driving.

I put my phone on silent these days when driving

allthedoyles

SpaceTime wrote: »

I had boss who used to go mental if I didn't answer calls while driving and if I was unaware of emails while driving.

I ended up having a major 'discussion' about how dangerous and illegal it was and how if they

I think people need to be able to let calls roll to voicemail when driving.

I put my phone on silent these days when driving

If you are an employee , and your job is driving , then of course you need to answer the phone while driving .
That is not breaking any law , - its the method you use to answer the phone that breaks the law .
If I was a boss , I too would go mental if trying to contact someone during office hours .

You or your employer need to equip yourself with , bluetooth , hand-free , or car-kit , whatever option you need to do your job responsibly ( and drive safely )

Comhrá

So has anyone been prosecuted for texting while driving under the recent legislation?

I had kind of expected there would be a few highly publicized cases just to highlight the efforts of the Gardai.

expectationlost

No court cases yet for texting while driving http://www.herald.ie/news/no-court-cases-yet-for-texting-while-driving-30545731.html 17th july https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2014-07-17a.1549&s=texting+speaker%3A338#g1550.q
only have figures for the general holding phone while driving offence for the earlier part of the year http://www.thejournal.ie/mobile-phone-driving-offence-1640270-Aug2014/

expectationlost

Frances Fitzgerald (Minister, Department of Justice and Equality; Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
17 September 2014
https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2014-09-17a.1842&s=texting+driving#g1846.q
The Deputy will be aware that, under the provisions of the Courts Service Act 1998, management of the courts is the responsibility of the Courts Service and I have no role in the matter. Section 4(3) of the 1998 Act provides that the Courts Service is independent in the performance of its functions, which includes the provision of information on the courts system.

The Road Traffic Act 2006 (Restriction on use of Mobile Phones) Regulations 2014, which is the responsibility of my colleague, the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, came into effect on 1 May 2014. The Courts Service has indicated that it is currently not in a position to report on convictions for the offences created under the Regulations, however, in view of the fact that the Regulations only came into effect on 1 May 2014 it considers that it is unlikely that any prosecutions have yet come for hearing before the courts.

K.Flyer

The new laws and penalties do not seem to be deterring many people. Still a large percentage of drivers around Dublin City holding handsets while driving.

Going Forward

K.Flyer wrote: »

The new laws and penalties do not seem to be deterring many people. Still a large percentage of drivers around Dublin City holding handsets while driving.

And every where else too.
Without causing carnage.

Maybe the penalties are just a bit OTT.

expectationlost

still no info on this law being used


Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Independent)
350. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality the number of drivers summoned to court to date for the offence of accessing data on a mobile telephone while driving or texting while driving; and the number of drivers convicted of this offence since the offence was established in law. [48062/14]
Frances Fitzgerald (Minister, Department of Justice and Equality; Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
The Deputy will be aware that, under the provisions of the Courts Service Act 1998, management of the courts is the responsibility of the Courts Service and I have no role in the matter. Section 4(3) of the 1998 Act provides that the Courts Service is independent in the performance of its functions, which includes the provision of information on the courts system.
The Road Traffic Act 2006 (Restriction on use of Mobile Phones) Regulations 2014, which is the responsibility of my colleague, the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, created the new offence to which the deputy refers. The Courts Service has indicated that, a new offence code was updated to the relevant IT systems on 7 December 2014 and, consistent with normal recording procedure, it will be a number of months before any meaningful data can be provided on the numbers of drivers summoned to court and convicted of this offence.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2014-12-16a.671&s=speaker%3A42#g672.q

Turtle-TM

expectationlost wrote: »

still no info on this law being used


Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Independent)
350. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality the number of drivers summoned to court to date for the offence of accessing data on a mobile telephone while driving or texting while driving; and the number of drivers convicted of this offence since the offence was established in law. [48062/14]
Frances Fitzgerald (Minister, Department of Justice and Equality; Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
The Deputy will be aware that, under the provisions of the Courts Service Act 1998, management of the courts is the responsibility of the Courts Service and I have no role in the matter. Section 4(3) of the 1998 Act provides that the Courts Service is independent in the performance of its functions, which includes the provision of information on the courts system.
The Road Traffic Act 2006 (Restriction on use of Mobile Phones) Regulations 2014, which is the responsibility of my colleague, the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, created the new offence to which the deputy refers. The Courts Service has indicated that, a new offence code was updated to the relevant IT systems on 7 December 2014 and, consistent with normal recording procedure, it will be a number of months before any meaningful data can be provided on the numbers of drivers summoned to court and convicted of this offence.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2014-12-16a.671&s=speaker%3A42#g672.q

Another gombeen minister in the dail asking a question about a pice of legislation they have obviously never read. There is no such offence related to "accessing data on a mobile telephone while driving"

expectationlost

Turtle-TM wrote: »

Another gombeen minister in the dail asking a question about a pice of legislation they have obviously never read. There is no such offence related to "accessing data on a mobile telephone while driving"

yeah, its pity especially Broughan spends alot of time on transport issues, although not the main point of the question he should have the detail down, this detail was argued out at the time.

ironclaw

Turtle-TM wrote: »

Another gombeen minister in the dail asking a question about a pice of legislation they have obviously never read. There is no such offence related to "accessing data on a mobile telephone while driving"

Accessing a text message is technically accessing data as data, by definition, is information. In fact, if they used the term 'data' in the legislation it would actually be far better.

Turtle-TM

ironclaw wrote: »

Accessing a text message is technically accessing data as data, by definition, is information. In fact, if they used the term 'data' in the legislation it would actually be far better.

In the legislation it is defined as an sms text message sent to a phone number registered in accordance with the national phone number framework (not a direct quote from legislation) so even if you are typing a "text" message using say, an instant messaging service that is being sent to a username rather than phone number you are technically not committing an offence. The 2014 amendment is an absolute shambles, I can see what they are trying to do, they don't want people touching a phone in a cradle on the windscreen, but for what ever reason, they completely botched the wording of the legislation, then somehow got the media to spin that "accessing data is now illegal on a phone even in a cradle" taxi drivers ringing joe saying they use their phones for gps and hailo etc and this will put them out of business blah blah blah

All it'll take is one case to come up where a guard says "well judge I witnessed the driver sending a text message on his phone while it was in a cradle" the only response needed? Prove it was a text I was sending guard.

expectationlost

ironclaw wrote: »

Accessing a text message is technically accessing data as data, by definition, is information. In fact, if they used the term 'data' in the legislation it would actually be far better.

that may or may not have been better but its not what in the law http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2014/en/si/0178.html

Outkast_IRE

Pointless fine as the law is completely unenforced at the moment. If you put a camera at a set of traffic lights and actually tracked the number of drivers on phones throughout the day the numbers would be scary high. Its just as bad on the motorways/dual carriageways.

The only way to enforce these laws is with gardai on the street and in the traffic corp which unfortunately there seems to be less and less of them over the last few years.

Less pointless changes to the law and more gardai numbers to enforce them please !

expectationlost

This Regulation does not apply to the sending of messages via the internet (for example using Viber, Snapchat, WhatsApp, Twitter, Facebook, Facetime etc.) or to access phone apps (including Hailo App) when a phone is not being held (i.e. when it is resting in a cradle). However, motorists are advised never to use their phones or any other electronic devices for any purpose while driving.

http://www.dttas.ie/press-releases/2014/new-penalties-texting-while-driving

think they did as much as they were going to do as part of secondary legislation.

Zascar

I have my phone mounted on the dash, and using Google voice, without touching it at all, I can say "Ok Google" and something like then "Call Mum" or "Navigate to Dundrum" etc, and do what I want without touching my phone. There's no way I'd get done for that is there??

Turtle-TM

Zascar wrote: »

I have my phone mounted on the dash, and using Google voice, without touching it at all, I can say "Ok Google" and something like then "Call Mum" or "Navigate to Dundrum" etc, and do what I want without touching my phone. There's no way I'd get done for that is there??

Exactly the same with iPhone. When plugged in you can say, "hey Siri, text my mum saying I'll be late for lunch" or "reply to the last text from mum saying I'll be late" now say you get pulled over for a secondary reason, and the gard sees a text on the screen, they could try to say you were writing a txt. But then again you could be writing an iMessage to someone on an iPad using their email as way of contacting them. It's not an email. It's not an sms. So there's another technicality!

By the way, your example above, you could just open google maps and put Dundrum in to search, no need for voice use, legislation doesn't cover sat nav apps! Really just saying it to prove my point more of what a mess the legislation is and how unenforceable it is!

Zascar

I use the google maps satnav all the time, so you're saying if I get caught my a guard I can say I was doing satnav, and I'll be ok? I doubt it but I wish!

Turtle-TM

Zascar wrote: »

I use the google maps satnav all the time, so you're saying if I get caught my a guard I can say I was doing satnav, and I'll be ok? I doubt it but I wish!

Exactly! Doesn't say anywhere here http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2014/en/si/0178.html about using your sat nav on your phone does it?!

ironclaw

Turtle-TM wrote: »

In the legislation it is defined as an sms text message sent to a phone number registered in accordance with the national phone number framework (not a direct quote from legislation) so even if you are typing a "text" message using say, an instant messaging service that is being sent to a username rather than phone number you are technically not committing an offence. The 2014 amendment is an absolute shambles, I can see what they are trying to do, they don't want people touching a phone in a cradle on the windscreen, but for what ever reason, they completely botched the wording of the legislation, then somehow got the media to spin that "accessing data is now illegal on a phone even in a cradle" taxi drivers ringing joe saying they use their phones for gps and hailo etc and this will put them out of business blah blah blah

All it'll take is one case to come up where a guard says "well judge I witnessed the driver sending a text message on his phone while it was in a cradle" the only response needed? Prove it was a text I was sending guard.

Yes, I'm aware:

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/05/01/legal-coffee-break-2/

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90168798&postcount=18

And btw folks, the catch all of dangerous driving and driving with undue care and attention still exists, so I wouldn't get too technical at the roadside with a Garda. If you have a DVR, that shows you and your hands, I'd take my chances. Otherwise, you'll need a very favourable judge.

Turtle-TM

ironclaw wrote: »

Yes, I'm aware:

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/05/01/legal-coffee-break-2/

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90168798&postcount=18

And btw folks, the catch all of dangerous driving and driving with undue care and attention still exists, so I wouldn't get too technical at the roadside with a Garda. If you have a DVR, that shows you and your hands, I'd take my chances. Otherwise, you'll need a very favourable judge.

Unless the gard stands up and says that they saw you driving dangerously then they can't get you on dangerous driving or with out due care etc.

If a gard stopped me and said I saw you using your phone in a cradle I'd be polite, as I always am with a gard on the roadside, and say, yes, I was indeed using it, but I wasn't doing so in a manner covered by the road traffic act, as in I wasn't sending a text, and in my opinion I wasn't driving in a dangerous manner. If he wants to try to get a case out of it, I'd happily go to court with a good solicitor and a view to highlighting the inadequate legislation.

NIMAN

Its a fine line isn't it?

What about using a touchscreen Sat Nav?
Or eating a chocloate bar with one hand?
Or reaching over to change radio channels, or get a CD from the passenger seat to put into the CD player?

All take your mind of the task of driving and could potentially be dangerous, yet none of that will get you a 1k fine.