Season 4 Episode 2 "The Lion and the Rose" : *HAVE* read the books

longhalloween

turnikett1 wrote: »

I have read the books, I most recently read the 5th one about 4 months ago but it's been AGES since I read the 3rd one. So, uh... who did poison Joffrey again? Is it ever even revealed in the books?

Haha that's the problem. I've forgotten half the stuff from Feast of Dragons.

Mr Freeze

longhalloween wrote: »

Haha that's the problem. I've forgotten half the stuff from Feast of Dragons.

Don't you mean in A Clash of Crows? :pac:

ArmaniJeanss

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

What's the story with the Kettleblacks? Are they going to introduce them or who is Cersei going to sleep with and accuse Margaery?

They'll scrap the Kettleblacks imo, or at most there'll be just one.
If they scrap them then Bronn can take that story arc maybe, can see him covering a whole load of such minor characters.
Would keep him in Kings Landing through books 4 and 5 also.

longhalloween

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Don't you mean in A Clash of Crows? :pac:

Nahhh...

http://boiledleather.com/post/24543217702/a-proposed-a-feast-for-crows-a-dance-with-dragons

It's much better than reading them individually, as you actually feel like you're getting the whole story, rather than two separate halves. There's one interesting point where you view the same conversation between Jon and Sam from each of their perspectives, one after the other.

Also with the more interesting story lines from Dance interspersed with Feast, the latter isn't a 1000 page slog.

turnikett1

I can't wait to see how they portray Braavos in the series, it's probably my favourite place in the Song of Ice and Fire universe. If my memory serves me right though, that won't be until book 4 ie Season 5

Witcher

I'd say Bronn will go on the road with Jaime as Ilyn Payne did, keeps him on the show and will be funny seeing him and Jaime interect as they travel.

Mickeroo

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

They'll scrap the Kettleblacks imo, or at most there'll be just one.
If they scrap them then Bronn can take that story arc maybe, can see him covering a whole load of such minor characters.
Would keep him in Kings Landing through books 4 and 5 also.

Since Bronn is training Jaimie I'd imagine he'll hit the road with him when he heads of to negotiate at Riverrun and that. Can't see Cersei using Bronn the way she did the Kettleblacks since he was so close to Tyrion either.

Mr Freeze

longhalloween wrote: »

Nahhh...

http://boiledleather.com/post/24543217702/a-proposed-a-feast-for-crows-a-dance-with-dragons

Ok, I retract my Clash of Crows statement, you are a hardcore case if you went to the bother of reading it that way.

turnikett1 wrote: »

I can't wait to see how they portray Braavos in the series, it's probably my favourite place in the Song of Ice and Fire universe. If my memory serves me right though, that won't be until book 4 ie Season 5

The Titan of Braavos was in the Season 4 trailer. So someone is going there this season. Whether its Arya going there in the last episode, or Stannis going on a detour.

Kunkka

Blay wrote: »

I'd say Bronn will go on the road with Jaime as Ilyn Payne did, keeps him on the show and will be funny seeing him and Jaime interect as they travel.

Yeah I think they will do this 100%

Lena Hardley won't be pleased that's for sure!

TimeToShine

Was that vision Bran had of a dragon over KL?

I don't remember that being alluded to in the books at all.

longhalloween

Blay wrote: »

I'd say Bronn will go on the road with Jaime as Ilyn Payne did, keeps him on the show and will be funny seeing him and Jaime interect as they travel.

Doesnt bronn go off to married life in the books, then all we hear of him is that his in-laws are all dying under suspicious circumstances.

turnikett1

TimeToShine wrote: »

Was that vision Bran had of a dragon over KL?

I don't remember that being alluded to in the books at all.

Me neither, in fact I thought the visions from touching trees only came to him in book 5/maybe book 4 Like I said earlier though, it's been a while since I've read the books. That's the problem with watching the tv show, I spend half my time thinking "whos that again? why is this happening again? oh yeah what happens when they do this thing? what book is that meant to be in? why cant I stop caring and just watch the feckin show?"

Witcher

longhalloween wrote: »

Doesnt bronn go off to married life in the books, then all we hear of him is that his in-laws are all dying under suspicious circumstances.

Yeah but they won't bring in all of that. Jaime needs a companion and Bronn is nearly done in KL so they'll just send them together.

That's what they were setting up this week, if they weren't planning to use Bronn as his companion I'd say they would have ignored Jaime's training altogether and just have him do it offscreen. But now they've established a relationship there and that Bronn will stay quiet about Jaime being crap for money.

FunLover18

turnikett1 wrote: »

Me neither, in fact I thought the visions from touching trees only came to him in book 5/maybe book 4

These visions are also usually through the eyes of other trees. What a weirwood was doing above King's Landing I have no idea but I suppose it's a handy device.

Of all the characters Bran's aging has irritated me most, I know it can't be helped but standing up he must be nearly as tall as Hodor now.

Mousewar

FunLover18 wrote: »

Of all the characters Bran's aging has irritated me most, I know it can't be helped but standing up he must be nearly as tall as Hodor now.

Good thing he's not going to be doing a lot of that.

December2012

FunLover18 wrote: »

What a weirwood was doing above King's Landing .

... Unless he's a warg.... Warged into a dragon

username123

FunLover18 wrote: »

Of all the characters Bran's aging has irritated me most, I know it can't be helped but standing up he must be nearly as tall as Hodor now.

I was actually thinking Poor Hodor in the last episode, Bran has grown up LOADS!!!

FunLover18

December2012 wrote: »

... Unless he's a warg.... Warged into a dragon

Possible but I don't like that they seem to be messing with the rules of being a greenseer. When he goes into the tree in the book he always sees what the tree or other weirwoods have seen. Not just random ****. How could he have seen Dany's vision of the throne room in ash/snow. It's a small niggle but it did annoy me

username123 wrote: »

I was actually thinking Poor Hodor in the last episode, Bran has grown up LOADS!!!

The actor playing Hodor has said the his back is now fairly ****ed.

Witcher

Bloodraven told him that eventually he would be able to see without the trees, they just sped that up. Better for all our sakes really.

Washington Irving

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

They'll scrap the Kettleblacks imo, or at most there'll be just one.
If they scrap them then Bronn can take that story arc maybe, can see him covering a whole load of such minor characters.
Would keep him in Kings Landing through books 4 and 5 also.

I can imagine it now... "Ser Bronn Ilyn Osmund Osfrey Osney 'Moone Boy' King's Justice' Payne-Kettleblack, first of his name" :pac:

Mr.Prodston

Maybe Bran saw into the past rather than the future with the dragon in KL? Or is that just wishful thinking.

FunLover18

Blay wrote: »

Bloodraven told him that eventually he would be able to see without the trees, they just sped that up. Better for all our sakes really.

Oh really, don't remember that

FunLover18

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

Maybe Bran saw into the past rather than the future with the dragon in KL? Or is that just wishful thinking.

I would say that's more likely given that we know the dragons are nowhere near arriving in KL

Witcher

FunLover18 wrote: »

Oh really, don't remember that

Yep, just checked..he says;

'Nor will your sight be limited to the godswood. The singers carved eyes into their trees to awaken them, and those are the first eyes a new greenseer learns to use..but in time you will see well beyond the trees themselves'.

Pg. 534 in ADwD if you're using the paperback.

sparkthatbled

Anyone else notice that the midget Stannis was riding Melisandre instead of a horse? Amusing touch, that! Also "Renly" was also mounted on a human, one of ambiguous gender with curly blonde hair...

Mr Freeze

sparkthatbled wrote: »

Anyone else notice that the midget Stannis was riding Melisandre instead of a horse? Amusing touch, that! Also "Renly" was also mounted on a human, one of ambiguous gender with curly blonde hair...

Brienne.

FunLover18 wrote: »

Of all the characters Bran's aging has irritated me most, I know it can't be helped but standing up he must be nearly as tall as Hodor now.

he has a bit to go yet.

longhalloween

sparkthatbled wrote: »

Also "Renly" was also mounted on a human, one of ambiguous gender with curly blonde hair...

He had his arse hanging out.

Mr Freeze

longhalloween wrote: »

He had his arse hanging out.

Someone at work says he was backing into the other "Kings" too. I didn't notice that, I was too busy watching the peoples reactions.

Michael D Not Higgins

Mr Freeze wrote: »

he has a bit to go yet.

Plaid jacket with stripey shirt and shiny tie topped with hipster glasses with no lenses. Seven hells!

PopePalpatine

Washington Irving wrote: »

I can imagine it now... "Ser Bronn Ilyn Osmund Osfrey Osney 'Moone Boy' King's Justice' Payne-Kettleblack, first of his name" :pac:

Ah jaysus, now you have me imagining Ser Ilyn riding Cersei. :pac:

Liam O

The more I think about it, it had to be Margaery in the show. The cup was too far from Olenna. Though the lingering shots on her make me not totally sure that the director didn't just messed up the logistics of it all. Now, a lot believe it was Garlan in the books but Margaery wouldn't be governed by the laws of hospitality if I remember correctly so would this change people's minds on whether it was Margaery in the book too? I'll have to read the chapter again I guess...

Rosy Posy

FunLover18 wrote: »

These visions are also usually through the eyes of other trees. What a weirwood was doing above King's Landing I have no idea but I suppose it's a handy device.

Surely there's a weirwood in the Godswood, in the Red Keep, right at the top of Aegon's High Hill- that would give a nice aerial view of KL, no? I think it is a future vision along with the snow falling in a sacked throne room. I know the latter was in Dany's vision in the House of the Undying, but the former if it is the future is a pretty big instance of the show spoiling the books. It could be a past vision from the Dance of Dragons I suppose but that seems hardly relevant. I hope to goodness that it means Danys will be getting off her gentrified ar$e and kicking some Westerosi butt!

PopePalpatine

If it is snowing in King's Landing in the future...does this mean the Others beat the Night's Watch?

Son0vagun

PopePalpatine wrote: »

If it is snowing in King's Landing in the future...does this mean the Others beat the Night's Watch?

Is it snow or ash?

Or does it mean something else? Snow on the Throne?

username123

Son0vagun wrote: »

Is it snow or ash?

Or does it mean something else? Snow on the Throne?

Whether it be snow or ash I always thought the significance was that the red keep had suffered the same fate as Harrenhal, ie, been destroyed by dragons.

FunLover18

Rosy Posy wrote: »

Surely there's a weirwood in the Godswood, in the Red Keep, right at the top of Aegon's High Hill- that would give a nice aerial view of KL, no? I think it is a future vision along with the snow falling in a sacked throne room. I know the latter was in Dany's vision in the House of the Undying, but the former if it is the future is a pretty big instance of the show spoiling the books. It could be a past vision from the Dance of Dragons I suppose but that seems hardly relevant. I hope to goodness that it means Danys will be getting off her gentrified ar$e and kicking some Westerosi butt!

Definitely not from a weirwood, too high, weird angle. The angle isn't right to be the dragon's POV either. Probably a bird

Washington Irving

Could the vision of the throne room possibly be just a metaphor for snow/winter reaching King's Landing which we already know from the books.

Dragon shadow could be fAegon VI, or as someone already said, a vision of the Targaryan reign of the past.


I'm trying to convince myself that they wouldn't give anything away that hasn't been revealed in the books (throne room one has been shown to Dany already, of course).

Witcher

Pity you can't see the Sept of Baelor in the dragon scene, that would help date it to after the death of the last dragon.

The shot isn't wide enough to show where it is so it might be there or it might not be. I'd say they did that deliberately to stop people dating it.

Rosy Posy

At the very end of Dance it's snowing in KL so it could be snow, equally it could be ash. Whatever it is the roofs definitely gone which indicates a fairly significant sacking, most likely by dragons (?)...at least I hope so!! In the book it reminded me of the line in the Rains of Castermere- 'and now the rain weeps o'er their halls with not a soul to hear'...the Lannisters chickens coming home to roost...

GerB40

Mickeroo wrote: »

Since Bronn is training Jaimie I'd imagine he'll hit the road with him when he heads of to negotiate at Riverrun and that. Can't see Cersei using Bronn the way she did the Kettleblacks since he was so close to Tyrion either.

But a scene with Bronn ridin the hole off Cersei would be class.. Wouldn't make much sense but it would be quality...

Lovely Bloke

FunLover18 wrote: »

The angle isn't right to be the dragon's POV either. Probably a bird

Explain please

Michael D Not Higgins

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Explain please

For one, the shadows of the buildings indicate the sun is to the upper left. Also the shadow moves relative to the frame. Therefore not the dragon's POV.

Lovely Bloke

But there's more than one dragon

December2012

FunLover18 wrote: »

Possible but I don't like that they seem to be messing with the rules of being a greenseer.

But Bran is both a warg and a greenseer. The warging comes from the stark side, the greenseer is what he's learning with jojen

Michael D Not Higgins

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

But there's more than one dragon

I won't speculate on how many dragons are flying over KL as it could be in the future or the past. The only thing we know is it's not the POV of the dragon whose shadow is being cast.

Lovely Bloke

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

I won't speculate on how many dragons are flying over KL as it could be in the future or the past. The only thing we know is it's not the POV of the dragon whose shadow is being cast.

ah-ha agreed yes.

But it could be another dragon that Brann has warged into.

Or it could be a bird.

But it's definitely not not a dragon

Michael D Not Higgins

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

ah-ha agreed yes.

But it could be another dragon that Brann has warged into.

Or it could be a bird.

But it's definitely not not a dragon

Yes, just one clarification though, warging is taking control of another animal at the current time. This is a greenseer vision, past or future.

Lovely Bloke

Is the show going to make a distinction between the two, I think they are likely to just kind of merge both superpowers to be a kind of "Brann can see things that happened or will happen, from the POV of an animal/tree"

Hyzepher

The Bran stuff was confusing enough in the books, in the show it's almost cryptic

turnikett1

Hyzepher wrote: »

The Bran stuff was confusing enough in the books, in the show it's almost cryptic

I agree, I can understand why a lot of people are kinda hoping he gets randomly killed off. To be honest I hated the Bran chapters until book 5, and even then it took a while to get used to them. I remember one chapter in particular where he meets the Three Eyed Crow who is practically a tree/corpse/skeleton thing and he teaches him and explains to him the ways of the Children of the Forest, Bran then does some mad greenseeing skillz and sees Theon and his father and other assorted crazy visions. Now THAT I really enjoyed! There was also some sort of sick weird pleasure I got from Bran not wanting to become a greenseer, not wanting to become a tree/corpse/skeleton thing and dreading it, but not really having a choice.

I have a feeling the Bran chapters are really gonna develop in book 6 and 7