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Season 4 Episode 2 "The Lion and the Rose" : *HAVE* read the books

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Comments

  • #202
    TimeToShine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    They really need to speed his story up. All the casual show watchers just groan every time he comes on screen. What's interesting is that they've pretty much shown most of his arc in the first 2 episodes. If they want him meeting Bloodraven as the finale (which is possible) then I can't see how they'll keep the viewers attention until then. Something needs to be done to develop that plot.

    Having said that, in ASOS part II all of the action was in KL so if they want to keep it there then by all means carry on.


  • #203
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    TimeToShine wrote: »
    They really need to speed his story up. All the casual show watchers just groan every time he comes on screen. What's interesting is that they've pretty much shown most of his arc in the first 2 episodes. If they want him meeting Bloodraven as the finale (which is possible) then I can't see how they'll keep the viewers attention until then. Something needs to be done to develop that plot.

    Having said that, in ASOS part II all of the action was in KL so if they want to keep it there then by all means carry on.
    Roose has sent Locke north to look for Bran and Rickon.


  • #204
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    Paddy Cow wrote: »
    Roose has sent Locke north to look for Bran and Rickon.
    The more I watch the show, the more my memories of the book become fuddled with watching the show :o

    As far as I remember, this did not happen in the books (I'm 90% sure but wouldn't bet my life on it :P). Can anyone confirm this?

    If it didn't happen in the books, then this arc could be pretty interesting.


  • #205
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Paddy Cow wrote: »
    The more I watch the show, the more my memories of the book become fuddled with watching the show :o

    As far as I remember, this did not happen in the books (I'm 90% sure but wouldn't bet my life on it :P). Can anyone confirm this?

    If it didn't happen in the books, then this arc could be pretty interesting.

    Yeah me too.

    Locke wasn't in the books, it was Vargo Hoat who took Jaimes hand, threw Brienne to the bear etc.. But she bit off his ear while he tried to rape her and he died a festering death so presumably here Locke is taking on someone else's role as well as Vargo Hoats, can't think of who right now though.


  • #206
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    The only person I remember being sent after Bran and Rickon was Davos. I don't remember Ramsay ever mentioning it to anybody although I have no idea why


  • #207
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    The only person I remember being sent after Bran and Rickon was Davos. I don't remember Ramsay ever mentioning it to anybody although I have no idea why
    Same and that was much later but as I said, at this stage the books and show are starting to merge! If I recall, Davos was sent after Rickon and I think some fat guy had something to do with it? I know that Rickon never had a POV and once he separated from Bran we never really knew what happened to him.


  • #208
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Paddy Cow wrote: »
    Same and that was much later but as I said, at this stage the books and show are starting to merge! If I recall, Davos was sent after Rickon and I think some fat guy had something to do with it? I know that Rickon never had a POV and once he separated from Bran we never really knew what happened to him.

    Manderly sent him, in exchange for his life. I can't remember how Manderly knew though ...


  • #209
    TimeToShine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    Paddy Cow wrote: »
    Roose has sent Locke north to look for Bran and Rickon.

    I fail to see how that's relevant. As far as I can remember that didn't happen in the books and it's going to be a futile quest for Locke anyway and pretty much a waste of time, something viewers are not fond of. As for Rickon, I really haven't got a clue what they're gonna do about him. Better off delaying as much as possible until we get a decisive answer from TWoW, even then Rickon would be about 5 or 6 so he has to be re-cast.

    I do think it will be pretty cool when Tyrion finally meets Dany and if Davos rescues Rickon, it'll tie everything together very nicely for the viewers but that seems to be years away at the moment.


  • #210
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    Manderly sent him, in exchange for his life. I can't remember how Manderly knew though ...
    Didn't Manderly (thanks for the name) somehow capture Davos and go to great lengths to make people think he had hung him or something? With people thinking he was dead (and also thinking Rickon was dead) they would never suspect dead onion knight was looking for dead Stark kid.

    Wasn't Manderly on opposite sides to Stannis and while Davos wasn't as anal as Stannis, he was very loyal. What convinced him to switch sides?


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  • #211
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    TimeToShine wrote: »
    I fail to see how that's relevant. As far as I can remember that didn't happen in the books and it's going to be a futile quest for Locke anyway and pretty much a waste of time, something viewers are not fond of. As for Rickon, I really haven't got a clue what they're gonna do about him. Better off delaying as much as possible until we get a decisive answer from TWoW, even then Rickon would be about 5 or 6 so he has to be re-cast.
    Me too :P

    I was responding to someone who said that Bran's story needed to become more interesting and I pointed out that the Locke was sent after him.

    Some things that happened in the show which didn't happen in the books turned out to be brilliant. The Arya vs Tywin scenes spring to mind.

    Only time will tell if there if Locke going on a mission to the North (which is a deviation from the books) pays off.


  • #212
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Paddy Cow wrote: »
    Didn't Manderly (thanks for the name) somehow capture Davos and go to great lengths to make people think he had hung him or something? With people thinking he was dead (and also thinking Rickon was dead) they would never suspect dead onion knight was looking for dead Stark kid.

    Wasn't Manderly on opposite sides to Stannis and while Davos wasn't as anal as Stannis, he was very loyal. What convinced him to switch sides?

    Manderly is on Stannis's side. He hates the Freys. In the book Ramsay is happy because the Karstarks are with Stannis but with Ramsay, whereas the Manderlys are with Ramsay in Winterfell but with Stannis … if you know what I mean ;)

    Still can't remember how Manderly knew about Rickon though … anybody?


  • #213
    TimeToShine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    Manderly is on Stannis's side. He hates the Freys. In the book Ramsay is happy because the Karstarks are with Stannis but with Ramsay, whereas the Manderlys are with Ramsay in Winterfell but with Stannis … if you know what I mean ;)

    Still can't remember how Manderly knew about Rickon though … anybody?

    Wasn't it someone who survived Theon's taking of Winterfell that told him? I can't remember exactly but it was something like that.

    edit: Yeah it's in the wiki:

    "Most of Westeros believes him dead, but Wyman Manderly and Robett Glover learn from Wex Pyke, a survivor of the Sack of Winterfell, that Rickon Stark is alive. Wex tells them - via writing since he cannot speak - that Rickon and a woman fled to the island of Skagos."


  • #214
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    Manderly is on Stannis's side. He hates the Freys. In the book Ramsay is happy because the Karstarks are with Stannis but with Ramsay, whereas the Manderlys are with Ramsay in Winterfell but with Stannis … if you know what I mean ;)

    Still can't remember how Manderly knew about Rickon though … anybody?
    Ya I get it now. Thanks for that :)


  • #215
    bur
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,689 ✭✭✭bur


    Haha, did anyone else spot Roose Bolton nearly walking into a wall thinking it was a door? Surprised an error like that could make it past editing these days. Happens just after Ramsay shakes hands with Locke as they move inside the Dreadfort.


  • #216
    GerB40
    Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭GerB40


    bur wrote: »
    Haha, did anyone else spot Roose Bolton nearly walking into a wall thinking it was a door? Surprised an error like that could make it past editing these days. Happens just after Ramsay shakes hands with Locke as they move inside the Dreadfort.
    Sometimes they (all editors) allow these little near mistakes into the final cut to make it look more natural apparently.


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  • #217
    Rosy Posy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭Rosy Posy


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    Manderly is on Stannis's side. He hates the Freys. In the book Ramsay is happy because the Karstarks are with Stannis but with Ramsay, whereas the Manderlys are with Ramsay in Winterfell but with Stannis … if you know what I mean ;)

    Still can't remember how Manderly knew about Rickon though … anybody?

    Afair Theon's squire (Wex?) climbed a tree in the Godswood and hid while Ramsey et al were razing Winterfell and saw them coming out of hiding and making plans. No recollection of how he found his way to Whiteharbour.

    I'm disappointed that they seem to be scrapping the Davos going to Skagos storyline, I was looking forward to seeing unicorns and cannibals. I believe Oscha and Rickon were on their way to the Last Hearth to seek refuge with the Umbers in the book, and they seem to be combining the Thenns with the Skagosians.


  • #218
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Rosy Posy wrote: »
    Afair Theon's squire (Wex?) climbed a tree in the Godswood and hid while Ramsey et al were razing Winterfell and saw them coming out of hiding and making plans. No recollection of how he found his way to Whiteharbour.

    I'm disappointed that they seem to be scrapping the Davos going to Skagos storyline, I was looking forward to seeing unicorns and cannibals. I believe Oscha and Rickon were on their way to the Last Hearth to seek refuge with the Umbers in the book, and they seem to be combining the Thenns with the Skagosians.

    I doubt they're scrapping it, it's just far too early. Stannis and Davos haven't even reached the wall yet, and then Davos has to go to White Harbour where he's held captive for ages. His mission to Skagos will probably season 6 or there abouts


  • #219
    Rosy Posy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭Rosy Posy


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    I doubt they're scrapping it, it's just far too early. Stannis and Davos haven't even reached the wall yet, and then Davos has to go to White Harbour where he's held captive for ages. His mission to Skagos will probably season 6 or there abouts

    Of course, I just assumed that Locke was taking on that role too but he's not even from the same side. Plenty of scope for Skagos in the future :)


  • #220
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    I assumed Lockes new plotline was gonna be a plot device to reveal to the manderleys that Bran and Rickon are still alive. That could be a way to bring the "northern conspiracy" into the show.


  • #221
    ShaneU
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,942 ✭✭✭✭ShaneU


    Surely Olenna poisoning the jug at the table could have killed her granddaughter too, is there something I'm missing here?


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  • #222
    Paddy Cow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    ShaneU wrote: »
    Olenna poisoning the jug at the table could have killed her granddaughter too, is there something I'm missing here?
    She didn't poison the jug, she put the poison in his cup.


  • #223
    Rosy Posy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭Rosy Posy


    Paddy Cow wrote: »
    She didn't poison the jug, she put the poison in his cup.

    They were sharing the cup, which makes me think that Margery must have been in on it too- she makes a point of publicly drinking from the cup so that she and the Tyrells are beyond suspicion, then QoT spikes it.


  • #224
    Thargor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,967 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    The Renly dwarf wasn't riding Brienne he was riding Ser Loras, you even get a Loras reaction shot.

    How is Locke supposed to go after Bran? He has no way of knowing they passed through the wall.

    That reminds me of something that always bugged me about the books and the show, during Shay, Tyrions and Bronns drinking game, it's revealed that Bronns been north of the wall but we never hear anything else about it, good idea for a Dunc and Egg short story...


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