Undertaking in bus lanes.

degsie

I think we should close this thread NOW! I really don't want everyone knowing bus lanes are ok to use outside the posted times, it saves my skin every time I collect the kids from school as I merrily skip along the open lane. The red faced, snarling, stress heads all bunched up in the other lane just makes me giggle a little...

robz150

I take your point its nice to drive down an open bus lane when permitted, why wouldn't you I shouldn't be surprised people are oblivious to a sign saying they can when a lot of drivers are oblivious to everything else around them. Sundays and after 7pm queuing in traffic with an empty bus lane beside them, whats going on in their heads??

LFCFan

robz150 wrote: »

whats going on in their heads??

Precious little most probably

visual

robz150 wrote: »

Also, why oh why do some drivers not use the Bus Lanes when their open. Really annoys me when I see a near crash as a driver indicates right and swerves at the last minute to switch back in to the right hand lane to avoid a bus lane that is open to everyone. In particular the Oscar Traynor road in Coolock which is not a bus lane between 10:00 and 12:00. Always get the evil eyes when I drive in this bus lane at this time. Even had a nice man in a landscape business 4x4 swerve towards me as I went past in the bus lane. He got out at the next lights to ask me 'Did I think I was great driving in the bus lane' I informed it was open to cars at the specific times but that only made his face more red and he wanted to fight Idiot

The landscaping guy should be put off the road
even if you where driving in buslane at wrong time(and you weren't) he shouldn't be openly aggressive and demonstrate road rage.

Muahahaha

cisk wrote: »

That's exactly the reason i have just gotten my bike leaner permit, i love my car but commuting from one side of Dublin to the other for 3 years has put me on the brink. Will use a bike to commute and my car for when i can actually enjoy it.

Once you discover the joys of a rush hour commute on a motorbike you'll find it hard to go back to the car. I only ever take the car if it's icy or absolutely lashing rain. You will get wet now and again but for me the inconvenience is well worth the time saved and not having to be grinding gears in slow moving traffic

degsie wrote: »

I think we should close this thread NOW! I really don't want everyone knowing bus lanes are ok to use outside the posted times, it saves my skin every time I collect the kids from school as I merrily skip along the open lane. The red faced, snarling, stress heads all bunched up in the other lane just makes me giggle a little...

I feel the same, the less people that know they can use bus lanes the better

Funnily enough I think the lack of people using them is a direct reflection of the average Irish drivers observational skills when driving. Because if their observation was any good then they'd clearly see the signs outlining when the public can use them.

porsche959

Can't we have one giant mega-merge thread for all the "I saw someone doing something bold that secretly I'd like to do myself but I don't have the balls" rants?

degsie

porsche959 wrote: »

Can't we have one giant mega-merge thread for all the "I saw someone doing something bold that secretly I'd like to do myself but I don't have the balls" rants?

No.

Sean Kinvarra

On many occasions driving down Malahide Road towards Fairview just after 7am I used the bus lane as it was open to all traffic after 7. At times there were buses and taxis in front and behind so I kept up to their speed which at times was up to a maximum of 60 kmh. Even though traffic in other lane was doing 30- 40 kmh shouldn't all those busses and taxied including myself have been pulled in and drivers received penalty points and a fine if it's so dangerous? This happens every day on Irish roads yet never heard anybody complain about this.

degsie

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

On many occasions driving down Malahide Road towards Fairview just after 7am I used the bus lane as it was open to all traffic after 7. At times there were buses and taxis in front and behind so I kept up to their speed which at times was up to a maximum of 60 kmh. Even though traffic in other lane was doing 30- 40 kmh shouldn't all those busses and taxied including myself have been pulled in and drivers received penalty points and a fine if it's so dangerous? This happens every day on Irish roads yet never heard anybody complain about this.

Only if you were exceeding the posted speed limit.

Sean Kinvarra

Dessie. That's what I was thinking myself. But doesn't that contradict the rule on undertaking? Doubt a Garda ever pulled a bus or taxi driver for this type of undertaking, yet if a private motorist did this without any busses or taxis around it would be a different story. The rule on undertaking in a grey area, and should be sorted out once and for all as in UK and N Ireland.

degsie

Nothing grey about it. If a bus lane has posted times then that lane becomes a normal driving lane outside of the posted times. In this country we are required to drive on the leftmost lane, so those driving on the second lane are in the wrong as this in effect is now an overtaking lane. Most drivers are clueless on this.

corktina

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

On many occasions driving down Malahide Road towards Fairview just after 7am I used the bus lane as it was open to all traffic after 7. At times there were buses and taxis in front and behind so I kept up to their speed which at times was up to a maximum of 60 kmh. Even though traffic in other lane was doing 30- 40 kmh shouldn't all those busses and taxied including myself have been pulled in and drivers received penalty points and a fine if it's so dangerous? This happens every day on Irish roads yet never heard anybody complain about this.

Have you got that right? would it not be open to all traffic until 7am?

old_aussie

Overtake, undertake, whats the problem?

In Oz, you can overtake in any lane, we have a simple rule(we are Aussies I know)

LOOK BEFORE CHANGING LANES!

So simples.

We're not crashing by the thousands.

corktina

you probably have had an effective driver training program for years to go with it though

enda1

Australia has a higher rate of road deaths than Ireland. Not saying it's attributed to that rule, but I wouldn't hold it up as a glowing example of driving excellence either.

djimi

degsie wrote: »

Nothing grey about it. If a bus lane has posted times then that lane becomes a normal driving lane outside of the posted times. In this country we are required to drive on the leftmost lane, so those driving on the second lane are in the wrong as this in effect is now an overtaking lane. Most drivers are clueless on this.

This has been said several times and nobody has ever once posted anything to back it up. I have never seen anything written anywhere to suggest that it is manditory to drive in a bus lane outside of hours.

enda1

djimi wrote: »

This has been said several times and nobody has ever once posted anything to back it up. I have never seen anything written anywhere to suggest that it is manditory to drive in a bus lane outside of hours.

Unless there is a rule which says not to, I think it falls user the drive in the leftmost lane rule.

djimi

enda1 wrote: »

Unless there is a rule hick days not to, I think it falls user the drive in the leftmost lane rule.

A bus lane is not part of the main carraigeway though. Is there anything written anywhere to suggest that it becomes part of the main carraigeway outside of hours?

corktina

but out of hours it ceases to be a bus lane and the thick white boundary can be disregarded, thus it is the left hand lane and should be the driving lane by default.

corktina

enda1 wrote: »

Unless there is a rule which says not to, I think it falls user the drive in the leftmost lane rule.

...and also the rules on undertaking then apply too...

djimi

corktina wrote: »

but out of hours it ceases to be a bus lane and the thick white boundary can be disregarded, thus it is the left hand lane and should be the driving lane by default.

Why can it be disregarded?

Im not saying that Im right, however I do feel that people are making a lot of assumptions without providing anything to back them up.

Galway K9

I think ye are allowed in bus lane if ye have boards.ie. car sticker

degsie

Imagine there was technology available that magically changes the white bus lane solid boundary markings into a dashed white line outside of the posted times. Would you then drive in the leftmost lane? This is how I see it.

corktina

djimi wrote: »

Why can it be disregarded?

Im not saying that Im right, however I do feel that people are making a lot of assumptions without providing anything to back them up.

Because when the bus lane is in operation this is a boundary marker between two separate carriageways.When the bus lane isn't in operation, it can be disregarded It isn't a lane marking such as the normal thin solid white line.

Following your line through to a logical conclusion, when the lane is not in operation, no one should use it at all.

Sean Kinvarra

degsie wrote: »

Nothing grey about it. If a bus lane has posted times then that lane becomes a normal driving lane outside of the posted times. In this country we are required to drive on the leftmost lane, so those driving on the second lane are in the wrong as this in effect is now an overtaking lane. Most drivers are clueless on this.[/QUOTE
Yes they should use out of use bus lanes as they are driving lanes. This is great in theory but does not work for simple reason cars use them for parking after bus hours, also buses stop every few hundred mtrs. Also unlike motorways where outside lanes are for overtaking only these lanes can also be used for right turns. Back to my original point, why do Gardai not punish buses that undertake AFTER bus hours. Isn't it illegal to undertake in "normal" lanes? That's the grey area.

corktina

I agree....undertaking in the bus lane is not permitted outside bus lane hours imo

degsie

corktina wrote: »

I agree....undertaking in the bus lane is not permitted outside bus lane hours imo

Fine, I'll give you a little wave as I zip by....:D

corktina

degsie wrote: »

Fine, I'll give you a little wave as I zip by....:D

you'll have a job...that's one of life's little pleasures (Why do we keep telling people about using out of hours bus lanes!)

Sean Kinvarra

corktina wrote: »

I agree....undertaking in the bus lane is not permitted outside bus lane hours imo

And that applies to buses and taxis also, yet never adhered to.

djimi

corktina wrote: »

Because when the bus lane is in operation this is a boundary marker between two separate carriageways.When the bus lane isn't in operation, it can be disregarded It isn't a lane marking such as the normal thin solid white line.

Following your line through to a logical conclusion, when the lane is not in operation, no one should use it at all.

Where does it say that a bus lane merges with the main carraigeway when it is outside of operation hours? Its entirely possible for it to remain a separate carraigeway, just one that cars are permitted to use. This would also mean that the laws of undertaking would not apply.

djimi

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

And that applies to buses and taxis also, yet never adhered to.

During operation hours, a bus lane is a separate carraigeway and as such undertaking laws would not apply.

degsie

Ok, to change my tune a little bit, I see now that road users can use the bus lane outside posted hours, however most drivers choose not to do this which suits me fine.

corktina

djimi wrote: »

Where does it say that a bus lane merges with the main carraigeway when it is outside of operation hours? Its entirely possible for it to remain a separate carraigeway, just one that cars are permitted to use. This would also mean that the laws of undertaking would not apply.

It is a bus lane at certain times which implies it isn't at other times. If it isn't a special lane, then it is either closed or a normal lane.

djimi

corktina wrote: »

It is a bus lane at certain times which implies it isn't at other times. If it isn't a special lane, then it is either closed or a normal lane.

And therein lies the problem; implies. There is nothing written in law or elsewhere (that I can see or that anyone has been able to provide) to clarify either way. As far as Im concerned a bus lane is a separate carraigeway, always, that cars may be allowed to use at certain times. Youre saying that outside of hours it must be considered to be the main driving lane. Neither of us seem to be able to provide any evidence to back either claim up.

corktina

no I can't give any evidence. It's merely an opinion. CiniO will be along in minute, he'll find it!

CiniO

corktina wrote: »

no I can't give any evidence. It's merely an opinion. CiniO will be along in minute, he'll find it!

If I've known the answer I'd be here long time before.

robertxxx

What i should of said is why do "some" people overtake in the bus lane? Why not just overtake the traditional way. (On the right hand side).
Like this morning, road has low volume of traffic on it, I'm doing the limit, car comes up behind me and overtakes in the bus lane and then back into the lane.

If by any chance their caught by the cops they would be done for speeding and driving in a bus lane "maybe" seen as reckless driving by a cop.

So why not just overtake?

degsie

robertxxx wrote: »

Like this morning, road has low volume of traffic on it, I'm doing the limit, car comes up behind me and overtakes in the bus lane and then back into the lane.

Was the bus lane available for you to use I.e. outside posted times?

robertxxx

degsie wrote: »

Was the bus lane available for you to use I.e. outside posted times?

No it's a 24 hour type.

degsie

robertxxx wrote: »

No it's a 24 hour type.

Well then the other driver was clearly in the wrong. Did you note the reg and report it?

Spook_ie

degsie wrote: »

Nothing grey about it. If a bus lane has posted times then that lane becomes a normal driving lane outside of the posted times. In this country we are required to drive on the leftmost lane, so those driving on the second lane are in the wrong as this in effect is now an overtaking lane. Most drivers are clueless on this.

No problem with that at all, but do remember that where it says turn left except buses that that isn't a bus lane message and also do remember the give way markings at the end of some bus lanes

smemon

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

after operational hours when bus lanes become open to the public everyone should be using them.

but the problem is not all bus lanes are the same... so unless you're from Dublin and aware of the hours of certain bus lanes, it's impossible to know when / if it's ok to use them..

degsie

smemon wrote: »

but the problem is not all bus lanes are the same... so unless you're from Dublin and aware of the hours of certain bus lanes, it's impossible to know when / if it's ok to use them..

The times are posted at the start of the bus lane and sometimes posted further along the lane.

Sean Kinvarra

djimi wrote: »

During operation hours, a bus lane is a separate carraigeway and as such undertaking laws would not apply.

Out of hours bus lane is treated as an ordinary lane. If cars are parked in these lanes leaving gaps of 50,60,100 mtrs what is the point of using that "driving lane". If you were to go by the Rules of the Road you would be constantly changing which is much more dangerous that just driving in outside lane. If it legal for buses and taxis to pass on inside lane after bus lane hours then same rules apply to motorists.

visual

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

Out of hours bus lane is treated as an ordinary lane. If cars are parked in these lanes leaving gaps of 50,60,100 mtrs what is the point of using that "driving lane". If you were to go by the Rules of the Road you would be constantly changing which is much more dangerous that just driving in outside lane. If it legal for buses and taxis to pass on inside lane after bus lane hours then same rules apply to motorists.

Dublin bus employed a strategy to make better progress and that is bus will indicate and pull away from bus stop including bus stops that are in off the road without waiting for gap in traffic or a curious driver to let them out.
There is no laws for this but its done everyday by dublin bus

Sean Kinvarra

Sitec wrote: »

I genuinely love this comment, I got a mental image of Pat Shortt roaring out the window of a tractor at yuppies. Good

You wouldn't be related to Bengy Riordan? :):) love it

djimi

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

Out of hours bus lane is treated as an ordinary lane. If cars are parked in these lanes leaving gaps of 50,60,100 mtrs what is the point of using that "driving lane". If you were to go by the Rules of the Road you would be constantly changing which is much more dangerous that just driving in outside lane. If it legal for buses and taxis to pass on inside lane after bus lane hours then same rules apply to motorists.

Is there anything written in law or otherwise to clarify this? There seems to be a lot of talk on this subject with very little to back it up either way.

ballooba

smemon wrote: »

but the problem is not all bus lanes are the same... so unless you're from Dublin and aware of the hours of certain bus lanes, it's impossible to know when / if it's ok to use them..

Imagine if it were as easy as reading the signs?

blastman

visual

ballooba wrote: »

Imagine if it were as easy as reading the signs?

If you don't know the bus lane hours its difficult to spot the times driving along at normal speed.
If you pass the start of bus lane without noticing it could be a while before another sign is shown

anyway most new bus lanes seem to be all 24hr