Mercedes SEC

lomb

Bought a 1983 Mercedes 500 SEC on ebay the other day from the UK. Going to get it next week. Has a full MOT so couldn't be too bad, however seller says it needs the front subframe welding. Realistically Im thinking it might need another one. What will a subframe cost? Would subframes out of breaker cars be in good order? Do Mercedes sell new ones?
Roll on the classic road tax on a 'modern' 5 liter v8:D

mattroche

God Luck with you purchase. I saw it and was tempted, but I asked myself if the sub frame was bad, how did it pass a M.O.T? and what other rust problems does it have? as I recall, it has had quite a number of new parts already fitted. If you look around you should be able to get a S/H sub frame without too much bother. The car is now ok for the vintage tax, as it is over 30yrs old.

lomb

Thanks Il post pics when I get it. Ive been looking for a 5L Merc for quite a while and although I can afford it the 1800 roadtax is a killer so the classic route seems the way forward. Im still not sure about the colour but it was too good to pass up. Yes as you say its an unknown but sort of a known also with the MOT. All these cars are rusty somewhere even the 10k mint examples.
I have my one way flight booked to Bristol on Friday and the 200 mile drive to Holyhead should reveal whether I got a good one or not. I have AA full tow me home to Ireland should something go wrong.
All the ones in Ireland are newer than the Vintage bracket Ive seen or overpriced so its the only way to get one at a good price which if not suitable I shall sell on. What Im really after is a black 560 SEC on vintage tax and probably on LPG(would be a shame not to use it). It will be a couple of years yet though, I think the 560s were 1985 /86 on so under 30y yet.

I posted a while back about a test drive on a 1985 500 sl which was a pile of scrap and very unimpressive to me in engineering terms and that was selling for 5 times the SEC. Naysayers said it was a good design but a 70s one and to get a w126 if I wanted something better. The power level of the 5l seemed to me to have less power than a 1liter fiesta (blown head gasket? or normal?), the fuel tank flap had water behind it with no drain, it wasn't rust proofed or designed to last like Porsches of the era so most are rotten including the restored ones, handled poorly , felt my head was going to explode with the smell of unburnt fuel in the cabin,and the interior wasn't great. Lets hope the SEC changes my views on Mercs and holds its badge the way it looks.

MercMad

Well good luck with your purchase. They are fantastic cars. I have a client who runs both a 380SEC and a 500SE on vintage. As you know rust is the killer. The UK MOT, well lets just say its better that have it than not, but you may still need to go through them.

It would be interesting to find out what wrong with the subframe, the R107 380SL's had a recall due to cracks but I'd be surprised if that's the issue. Other than that its either rust or damage. Best to just go through it when you get the car home, assuming its safe to drive. I suppose you could (or probably have) established that prior to your trip.

If you do need to replace it its not a huge job, no special tools, but its heavy and awkward. You will have to support that heavy engine, and its awkward, so best to have a spare pair of hands. I expect it just needs welding where the two halves are pressed together. The salt has just deteriorated that.

Best of luck and throw up some picture when you can.

lomb

Thanks for that, Ive never driven one before but they look very modern and frankly fell for the 4.5v8 in the 450sel I drove so it should be good. I shall post a full review when I get her.

Dades

Best of luck with it. A heck of a lot of car if you get a good one. Did that one way trip into Bristol and up to Holyhead myself in 2009 - enjoy!

Look forward to the pics.

lomb

Dades wrote: »

Best of luck with it. A heck of a lot of car if you get a good one. Did that one way trip into Bristol and up to Holyhead myself in 2009 - enjoy!

Look forward to the pics.

Thanks, I have a feeling its a good one (relatively/lets hope!)

mattroche

Perhaps it would be worth paying the V.R.T (e200) & re- register it, put it in for a N.C.T. and see what they need done to pass it. If you are driving to Holyhead, avoid the A5, it is a horrible road. M5, M6 to Chester, and A55 to Holyhead, motorway/ dual carriageway all the way Safe Driving, and Good Luck with you new toy!!

lomb

mattroche wrote: »

Perhaps it would be worth paying the V.R.T (e200) & re- register it, put it in for a N.C.T. and see what they need done to pass it. If you are driving to Holyhead, avoid the A5, it is a horrible road. M5, M6 to Chester, and A55 to Holyhead, motorway/ dual carriageway all the way Safe Driving, and Good Luck with you new toy!!

Its in Swansea so Il have to have a look at getting it back but thanks for the tips. Good thinking about the NCT . Il do that first before getting work done on it.
Im actually really looking forward to it. Ive always wanted a Merc, something about living past Motor Distributors as a kid with the huge spinning Merc star on top and seeing it every day on way to school/college.

lomb

So I just got back with her this morning after putting 250 miles on on motorways and back roads of south mid and north Wales and I can confirm it is the best/most fun car I have driven. The engine and gearbox feels as if its only run in-smooth as silk, virtually no body corrosion other than 2 small spots above the arch that are surface only, looks like it was built yesterday, perfect paint/chrome. When floored the 5 liter V8 punches the car forward like a train. It was dry stored for 12 years. Even the electric sunroof and aircon works. The factory audio system which was upgraded for 1000 I think is amazing for a tape player. Very very loud/bassy and clear. The original receipt is with the car from 1983 for 31000 sterling from Mercedes Woking including optional extras (90 quid each for seat heating and 1000 for the audio system I think) . The drivers seat and springing seems unworn and very well engineered as are the seat belt robot presenters. The aircon system seems ingenious with the fresh air vents. The leather and paint are very high quality. Ive seen 2006 E classes with ripped seats from wear and tear. This car seems to be built like a tank. Any Irish cars Ive test driven(1985 500sl, 1979 450sel) are very very poor in comparison. No corrosion in the common spots ie rear parcel shelf, the boot upholstery and floor seems absolutely like it left the factory. Arches 100%

Whats bad-front+ rear pads and discs need doing (noise when braking sounds like pad backplate is touching disc or disc cracked Ive had noise before ), the headlight wipers don't work Il have to see, headlining sagging in rear common issue, Il have to have the subframe looked at, steering wheel is two inches off center and about 2 inches of play either side where nothing happens, probably a couple of worn balljoints. I hope its not the rack. The steering stills feels very accurate. The drivers seat heater an optional extra doesn't work the switch is permanently lit on but nothing happening.


Anyone thinking of buying a classic my advice is don't mess around get the best model from the best make(in 1983 at least). The 560 should be some beast but I think I will keep the 500. The Labrador blue is growing on me.
Pics soon once polished.

Edit -one other bad point, it takes 90 liters so that's 140 euros to fill the tank, but it probably does around 18 smiles per gallon with plenty of fun:) Ive already put around that in the tank:(

11wingnut

Happy new car,i hope to see it at a show or a run. Can i suggest you join the Mercedes club. they have a few members with 500's and 560's and some very knowledgeable members .

Kenny Logins

Pics?

sogood

Well done, congrats and happy motoring. Seems like the fulfilment of a dream!

lomb

11wingnut wrote: »

Happy new car,i hope to see it at a show or a run. Can i suggest you join the Mercedes club. they have a few members with 500's and 560's and some very knowledgeable members .

Already done, I got my membership pack,sticker and Gazette magazine yesterday in the post yesterday. Will be at meets in due course for sure. This is the ebay listing, Ill post my own pics tomorrow probably. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-500-SEC-Coupe-1983-/191127271060?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=JR8iJN14EXQF0qN%252FO%252Fo%252FyLO8M9Q%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Whats impressed me most for the year apart from it being obvious it was designed by engineers is the smoothness of the engine and isolation. This goes for at full power and at idle. You wouldn't know it was running in the lower rev ranges. The brochure came with the car and points out the engine has digital rev control at idle, transistorised contactless ignition, electronic fuel injection and a 28% fuel saving on the 5l 231bhp unit versus the previous model. I wouldn't have felt bad if I took it out of the dealership brand new and paid the full price for it. Its that good.

lomb

A few pics attached. A lovely car but being 30 years old it probably needs 1k spent on minor rust repairs and steering wear as well as changing the rubber seals at the base of the windows. Anyone here know how easy that is as that and the bodywork will be the first task after registering and ncting it.

Silvera

Best of luck with the car! Look's like a good 'un!

unkel

Well wear, looking clean!

The W126 saloon is my favourite S-class and the coupé is my favourite Mercedes of all time. Would love to own one too

lomb

unkel wrote: »

Well wear, looking clean!

The W126 saloon is my favourite S-class and the coupé is my favourite Mercedes of all time. Would love to own one too

Thanks, it is a fine car for its time or even this time. Even the way the coupe is upholstered on the seats, carpets as well as door cards it was a car way ahead of its time in terms of taste and style. Magazines Ive read regarded it as the best car in the world when launched and Ive read the C126 is regarded as the Mercedes of all Benz by enthusiasts.

mattroche

A GREAT buy, looks good, very best of luck with it.

Dades

Good price for what you've got! Enjoy.
Best of luck in the NCT - hope they give you an easy ride.

Always loved Bundt wheels even though they are a hoor to keep clean.

lomb

The car is a bit of a handful in the wet as I just found out. All I did was nail it on a turn into a side road and the back end stepped out and then the other way when I braked. It does have crap Chinese tyres on it but Il be more careful in it. ESP has made cars these days as safe as houses but the classics obviously dont have it. The engine makes a lovely roar when floored its addictive and it spins its wheels easily in the wet ,loads of low down power! Im thinking the 300bhp 560 might be madness in this chassis.

unkel

lomb wrote: »

The car is a bit of a handful in the wet as I just found out.

All RWD cars of that era are like that, especially the ones with a bit of power.

Glad you like the engine. What's not to love about big V8s?

macplaxton

lomb wrote: »

All I did was nail it on a turn into a side road and the back end stepped out and then the other way when I braked.

The trick is not to brake. Back off, steer in direction of skid and don't steer too much.

Cheap teflon tyres (and dried out old hard ones) can be fun if you like that sort of thing. I prefer to eat beans on toast and have good ones.

Bigus

lomb wrote: »

The car is a bit of a handful in the wet as I just found out. All I did was nail it on a turn into a side road and the back end stepped out and then the other way when I braked. It does have crap Chinese tyres on it but Il be more careful in it. ESP has made cars these days as safe as houses but the classics obviously dont have it. The engine makes a lovely roar when floored its addictive and it spins its wheels easily in the wet ,loads of low down power! Im thinking the 300bhp 560 might be madness in this chassis.

Ayrton Senna used to drive his sideways with an elbow stuck out the window, brush up lad !

MercMad

Lovely car and the colour is quite nice and distinctive. These cars do not have a steering rack but a steering box instead. They can be adjusted but only so much, and if "over done" they can wear prematurely. On the 4.5 & 5.0 W107 chassis cars the adjuster is a hoor to get to, you have to undo the mounts and lift the engine. Not sure about the C126 though.

I would change the tyres as a matter of policy, even when new these cars were quite fussy on the type. Modern tyres, of a decent brand, will transform the ride and handling, especially if you have older, hard, tyres on it now. My 300SE will go sideways in the damp around every roundabout under ANY kind of throttle, but with the decent tyres its perfect. I have driven a customers 500SE, low mileage car, with good tyres and it feels like a new car although applying throttle in a tight bend or roundabout does make it......"fun".

You can disassemble those fog lights and clean them up too. When checking the front suspension/steering for play make sure you adjust the wheel bearings correctly first. These can exhibit a lot of movement before giving any noise and can make mis-diagnosis of component wear a real possibility.

From memory those window seals are straightforward enough but you do have to remove the door panels, and for the rear ones you have to remove the side panels. If I recall correctly that means removing the rear seats, which usually means removing the front seats too, to get them out, which means disconnecting the vacuum and the electrics. It sounds like a big deal but its all straight forward, just allow yourself plenty of time and space to do it. Let me check all of that first though as its a while since I've done one.

Best of luck with it and welcome to the Mercedes Benz Club.

lomb

MercMad wrote: »

Lovely car and the colour is quite nice and distinctive. These cars do not have a steering rack but a steering box instead. They can be adjusted but only so much, and if "over done" they can wear prematurely. On the 4.5 & 5.0 W107 chassis cars the adjuster is a hoor to get to, you have to undo the mounts and lift the engine. Not sure about the C126 though.

I would change the tyres as a matter of policy, even when new these cars were quite fussy on the type. Modern tyres, of a decent brand, will transform the ride and handling, especially if you have older, hard, tyres on it now. My 300SE will go sideways in the damp around every roundabout under ANY kind of throttle, but with the decent tyres its perfect. I have driven a customers 500SE, low mileage car, with good tyres and it feels like a new car although applying throttle in a tight bend or roundabout does make it......"fun".

You can disassemble those fog lights and clean them up too. When checking the front suspension/steering for play make sure you adjust the wheel bearings correctly first. These can exhibit a lot of movement before giving any noise and can make mis-diagnosis of component wear a real possibility.

From memory those window seals are straightforward enough but you do have to remove the door panels, and for the rear ones you have to remove the side panels. If I recall correctly that means removing the rear seats, which usually means removing the front seats too, to get them out, which means disconnecting the vacuum and the electrics. It sounds like a big deal but its all straight forward, just allow yourself plenty of time and space to do it. Let me check all of that first though as its a while since I've done one.

Best of luck with it and welcome to the Mercedes Benz Club.

Thanks , theres around 3 inches of play in the steering. I read 1 inch was within spec. That will be the first thing to sort out after the NCT . I guess its balljoints or bearings or the box. I dont see why the box would need adjusting unless its had it? I think a box is around 400 euros + labour. Hopefully its just the joints.
I think I got lucky in that their values are between 3-9 stg for a good-very good one where a rough one is worth around 1k. So not alot paid for her.

hi5

All the best car companies who used steering boxes called the play the 'sneeze factor';)

For what you paid even if costs a couple of grand more to put it right, you'll still be quids in.

lomb

hi5 wrote: »

All the best car companies who used steering boxes called the play the 'sneeze factor';)

For what you paid even if costs a couple of grand more to put it right, you'll still be quids in.

Luckily the underside, wheelarches, boot, rear parcel shelf, engine bay is clean and rust free although that remains to be seen on the subframe. Il have the rest sorted in stages hopefully in 6 months it will be somewhere between average and concourse.

MercMad

Its just the nature of the box that there has to be some freeplay/backlash. As they get older it increases, but thankfully they can be adjusted, but even when new there was a bit of play in them.

Once you have no rust issues you have basically a good car. Mechanical issues are fairly simple to sort. Have you looked at the subframe yet ?

jetfiremuck

As most of you know its a great feeling after buying a 'new' car that though it might sputter an dshake when you buy i that after a long drive the engine gets better and better and the initial fears dissapar. Good luck. Great to see a v8 import.

lomb

MercMad wrote: »

Once you have no rust issues you have basically a good car. Mechanical issues are fairly simple to sort. Have you looked at the subframe yet ?

I havent yet tbh. I was going to put it through the NCT first before sorting out the problems. I know it has a recent MOT so its probably just minor corrosion. Looking at the car it hasnt really suffered tin rot badly. MercMad if you want to have a shot in it/ have a look at the subframe your welcome to.

Frankly I love it, with the steering freeplay which I think is normalish its about an inch when driving forward(not at rest) its like steering a boat. A very fast accurate boat but a boat nevertheless.

The V8 is addictive. It will light the rear tyres up in the wet in 3rd and will happily oversteer with the tyres lit up on roundabouts controllably in the dry. To be honest I just enjoy driving it slowly with the peruvian andes music tape that was in it when I bought it but if you want to its a hooligan in a very elegant gentlemans suit. From what Ive seen modern mercs dont hold a candle to it in engineering.Even the huge springs counterbalancing the bonnet are something to see. Compared to a modern merc with puny pneumatic struts you would just laugh.