Keeping dogs outside

fatmammycat

OP, I think a shed with the dogs beds on some kind of raised pallets- to stop damp and cold- and away from any drafts would be the sort of thing you need to be looking at. Are they heavy coated dogs? I'm sorry if you mentioned the breed already and I missed it.
My father raised working collies and they were never indoors, unless injured or unwell. None of the dogs enjoyed being in the house and could not wait to get back outside again. Of course they were working dogs and had my father outside with them from dawn to dusk, but they never ever showed any inclination to come inside after him either.
I've a two year old GSD, and since I work from home he can come in or out as he pleases. This time of year he likes to be out from morning to night, sprawled on the lawn or the patio and he comes in for the evening/night. I go to bed before my OH, and as soon as I move off the sofa he races to the back door and demands to go out. He will then stay outside until my OH gets ready for bed and brings him back in. This is his routine now, his choice.
I think once dogs are well exercised and given plenty of attention and mental simulation they adapt better to being away from their owners, and as you say they also have each other. My own dog get a 90 minute off lead session every morning, and one more, sometimes two, other 30/40 mins walks a day and he seems happy and content. If your dogs are to be outside dogs, you will probably find they adapt better if they are well exercised and stimulated also.
Best of luck.

borderlinemeath

runawaybishop wrote: »

Thanks for shouting, it helps get your point across.

So you do not think dogs that are put outside will be frustrated or pine, thanks for clarifying. My dogs have no idea if i am inside the house or not. You should probably stop trying to guess what my dogs feel.

Actually, shouting is capitalised letters. I just enlarged my previous text as you seemed to be struggling with your vision on first reading it.;)

I think dogs that are used to indoor comforts will pine (italics and underlined, used for emphasis!!) to be back indoors. So I don't know where you got that idea that they wouldn't. And in fairness your dogs are probably fairly used to indifference to their feelings, given your views on containment for them.

Anyhow, this is nothing to do with the OP, who has got plenty of advice but has probably been scared off due to the nature of the indoor/outdoor dog debate. He knows his pets best and if his cats can't go out then the dogs have to adjust. And for those that think it's ok to turf the cats out, that's not fair on them either.

runawaybishop

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Actually, shouting is capitalised letters. I just enlarged my previous text as you seemed to be struggling with your vision on first reading it.;)

I think dogs that are used to indoor comforts will pine (italics and underlined, used for emphasis!!) to be back indoors. So I don't know where you got that idea that they wouldn't. And in fairness your dogs are probably fairly used to indifference to their feelings, given your views on containment for them.

Anyhow, this is nothing to do with the OP, who has got plenty of advice but has probably been scared off due to the nature of the indoor/outdoor dog debate. He knows his pets best and if his cats can't go out then the dogs have to adjust. And for those that think it's ok to turf the cats out, that's not fair on them either.

No, you were shouting.

I think different dogs react differently and should be assessed on an individual basis. Not all dogs that were previously inside when put outside will pine to be let in.

Graces7

a small observation. after an accident, am abed a lot and am limited because of a broken wrist added to arthritis. this house is open plan so the stairs are at the side of the big kitchen and i keep my bedroom door open.

the dogs are in the kitchen, and when i am up here they sleep. the minute i startmoving about, they are awake and active. reminds me of the wee figures in the old weather clocks.

as if they are not complete without me. only partly so. just waiting for me to come to them.

just taken them out in the sun a while and such utter joy. threw a ball around.

i tend not to leave them out alone; wee dog sits outside the door looking pathetic and collie barks non stop.

we take many small walks each day

they are not allowed upstairs; this is the cats domain. free range cats.

just my small thoughts

cocker5

Round... and round... and round.... thats where this thread will go over and over again.

For the posters who think having a dog in a pen 24/7 outdoors and not being allowed into the house is ok or "sure it will be grand" then so be it, no one will change your minds. Hopefully in 20/30 years time you will move on, develop and learn whats best for the dog.

And for those of you who treat your dog as a family member (not as a child but part fo the family) - thank god for small mercies, if your dog could speak human they would thank you too....

Over and out

cocker5

runawaybishop wrote: »

No, you were shouting.

I think different dogs react differently and should be assessed on an individual basis. Not all dogs that were previously inside when put outside will pine to be let in.

Nope he's right... capital letters refer to shouting not a larger text.

runawaybishop

cocker5 wrote: »

Nope he's right... capital letters refer to shouting not a larger text.

No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etiquette_in_technology
Common rules for e-mail[3] and Usenet such as avoiding flamewars and spam are constant across most mediums and communities. Another rule is to avoid typing in all caps or grossly enlarging script for emphasis, which is considered to be the equivalent of shouting or yelling.

cocker5 wrote: »

Round... and round... and round.... thats where this thread will go over and over again.

For the posters who think having a dog in a pen 24/7 outdoors and not being allowed into the house is ok or "sure it will be grand" then so be it, no one will change your minds. Hopefully in 20/30 years time you will move on, develop and learn whats best for the dog.

And for those of you who treat your dog as a family member (not as a child but part fo the family) - thank god for small mercies, if your dog could speak human they would thank you too....

Over and out

Who said the dog should be in a pen 24/7? The discussion is around dogs not being inside, not dogs being confirmed to a pen for their entire lives.

Graces7

runawaybishop wrote: »

No, you were shouting.

I think different dogs react differently and should be assessed on an individual basis. Not all dogs that were previously inside when put outside will pine to be let in.

pining and preferring are two different things. dogs are obedient and accepting. the way mine leap into life when i get home shows me so much. they will accept often what we ask of them.

cocker5

runawaybishop wrote: »

Who said the dog should be in a pen 24/7? The discussion is around dogs not being inside, not dogs being confirmed to a pen for their entire lives.

The discussion is about dogs being moved from indoor dogs to outdoor dogs "full time" ie 24/7 and building a pen for this move... so yes this is confinment... no one said for the rest of their lives... you really are great at twisting posts / words.

runawaybishop

cocker5 wrote: »

The discussion is about dogs being moved from indoor dogs to outdoor dogs "full time" ie 24/7 and building a pen for this move... so yes this is confinment... no one said for the rest of their lives... you really are great at twisting posts / words.

At no stage did the op or anyone else state the dogs would be kept in a pen 24/7, only that they would not be allowed indoors.

There is no word twisting involved.

cocker5

runawaybishop wrote: »

At no stage did the op or anyone else state the dogs would be kept in a pen 24/7, only that they would not be allowed indoors.

There is no word twisting involved.

I'm planning on building them an area in the garden that's fenced off and buying a large shed that they can take shelter in. They're going to be full time outdoor dogs

The OP actual words so yes a dog pen / area for them and 2/47 outdoor dogs in the area...

Now Im no bright spark but putting two and two together its says the dogs will be 24/7 outdoors in their fenced off area! rocket science its not.

I am hoping them may be walked so taken out of the area from time to time...

runawaybishop

cocker5 wrote: »

I'm planning on building them an area in the garden that's fenced off and buying a large shed that they can take shelter in. They're going to be full time outdoor dogs

The OP actual words so yes a dog pen / area for them and 2/47 outdoor dogs in the area...

Now Im no bright spark but putting two and two together its says the dogs will be 24/7 outdoors in their fenced off area! rocket science its not.

I am hoping them may be walked so taken out of the area from time to time...

No, you are making an incorrect assumption that they will be kept in this pen at all times. The op has already stated that they will be walked.

"They will be getting attention, love, socialisation etc. There's always someone home. They're walked daily and get plenty of affection."

Again, no one except you has indicated the dogs will be kept in a pen 24/7.

Admldj

cocker5 wrote: »

Round... and round... and round.... thats where this thread will go over and over again.

For the posters who think having a dog in a pen 24/7 outdoors and not being allowed into the house is ok or "sure it will be grand" then so be it, no one will change your minds. Hopefully in 20/30 years time you will move on, develop and learn whats best for the dog.

And for those of you who treat your dog as a family member (not as a child but part fo the family) - thank god for small mercies, if your dog could speak human they would thank you too....

Over and out

Cocker5 you really like having the last word dont you! very interesting to see on your other posts, just thought id mention my family have kept labradors for generations and my parents were champion breeders, so to say that those of us who keep our dogs outside will move on in 20/30 years time is somewhat of a ridiculous statement, move on to what exactly? Your idea of keeping an animal with you throughout every waking hour? Maybe in 20/30 years time you'll be a bit more gracious and assume that most dog owners know and love their pets and will do their absolute best for them, its not up to you to judge any body or assume that a dog that lives outside is somehow neglected or abandoned. I know you wont agree but hey hang on long enough and you'll get the last word (as usual!)

cocker5

runawaybishop wrote: »

No, you are making an incorrect assumption that they will be kept in this pen at all times. The op has already stated that they will be walked.

"They will be getting attention, love, socialisation etc. There's always someone home. They're walked daily and get plenty of affection."

Again, no one except you has indicated the dogs will be kept in a pen 24/7.

IF the dogs were to have time in the garden outside the pen..... ie free rain of the garden sometimes why bother building a pen for them? why not just give them the garden? Why lock them in? Very Odd.

Theres always someone home? this means nothing to dogs is they are infact in their pen and not allowed in doors, unless ofcourse this "person" who is at home will actually be out in the pen playing with them all the time? I think not.

NO WHERE does the OP states they will have free roam of the garden at other times... so now again you are twisting the OP's posts or just putting two and two together and getting five simple as.

Your now pulling at straws... based on whats been posted the scenario is as follows:

Two dogs outdoors "full time" 24/7 not allowed indoors
An Area / Pen being built for them
They will be walked at times
When someone is outdoors they will get love , affection... blah.. blah ... blah

Sounds like a lovely life for the dogs it really does :cool:

cocker5

Admldj wrote: »

Cocker5 you really like having the last word dont you! very interesting to see on your other posts, just thought id mention my family have kept labradors for generations and my parents were champion breeders, so to say that those of us who keep our dogs outside will move on in 20/30 years time is somewhat of a ridiculous statement, move on to what exactly? Your idea of keeping an animal with you throughout every waking hour? Maybe in 20/30 years time you'll be a bit more gracious and assume that most dog owners know and love their pets and will do their absolute best for them, its not up to you to judge any body or assume that a dog that lives outside is somehow neglected or abandoned. I know you wont agree but hey hang on long enough and you'll get the last word (as usual!)

Are you some kinda stalker now or something??
Going through my other posts (I mean really.....odd ball).... really i think its time you got a life and spent less time stalking people on boards when they dont agree with you.

Its a forum...for people to post on... now go and stalk someone else who doesnt share your opnion cause now your kinda freaking me out.

Admldj

If somebody basically accuses you of neglect of an animal is it not prudent to see what makes them such an expert? Or is it that your last word obsession just needs to be satiated!

borderlinemeath

Admldj wrote: »

Cocker5 you really like having the last word dont you! very interesting to see on your other posts, just thought id mention my family have kept labradors for generations and my parents were champion breeders, so to say that those of us who keep our dogs outside will move on in 20/30 years time is somewhat of a ridiculous statement, move on to what exactly? Your idea of keeping an animal with you throughout every waking hour? Maybe in 20/30 years time you'll be a bit more gracious and assume that most dog owners know and love their pets and will do their absolute best for them, its not up to you to judge any body or assume that a dog that lives outside is somehow neglected or abandoned. I know you wont agree but hey hang on long enough and you'll get the last word (as usual!)

Being a champion breeder in the past doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with good, up to date pet care. I know a lady who bred and showed dogs 20 years ago, yet she didn't have the first clue how to deal with her latest (non show) dog exhibiting food guarding. Her response to it was to take the food away and give out to the dog. And I've had dogs most of my life but when I was a teenager we had our family pet (Golden Retriever) on a choke chain. I wouldn't dream of using one now.

A lot of people have entrenched ideas about animal husbandry and because they've "had dogs for years" may not have updated their training techniques or changed their ways. Plenty of people when their new puppy wets the floor is to rub it's nose in it, a technique that's gone out with the ark. Things change, training techniques change, methods change, and usually for the better. Ireland does tend to lag behind it's European counterparts regarding animal welfare and in particular, letting pets into the home to live as part of the family.

Sorry, this post was off topic and the last part in no way reflects on the OP and the predicament they're in, they're stuck in an awkward situation and are trying to do the best for all their pets.

cocker5

Admldj wrote: »

If somebody basically accuses you of neglect of an animal is it not prudent to see what makes them such an expert? Or is it that your last word obsession just needs to be satiated!

Really now this will be last post to you on this matter ... leave me alone, go and stalk someone else, just because i dont agree with you, you now obesssing and are becoming a stalker.... move on....and get a life.

:P

cocker5

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Being a champion breeder in the past doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with good, up to date pet care. I know a lady who bred and showed dogs 20 years ago, yet she didn't have the first clue how to deal with her latest (non show) dog exhibiting food guarding. Her response to it was to take the food away and give out to the dog. And I've had dogs most of my life but when I was a teenager we had our family pet (Golden Retriever) on a choke chain. I wouldn't dream of using one now.

A lot of people have entrenched ideas about animal husbandry and because they've "had dogs for years" may not have updated their training techniques or changed their ways. Plenty of people when their new puppy wets the floor is to rub it's nose in it, a technique that's gone out with the ark. Things change, training techniques change, methods change, and usually for the better. Ireland does tend to lag behind it's European counterparts regarding animal welfare and in particular, letting pets into the home to live as part of the family.

Sorry, this post was off topic and the last part in no way reflects on the OP and the predicament they're in, they're stuck in an awkward situation and are trying to do the best for all their pets.

Excellent post....

runawaybishop

cocker5 wrote: »

IF the dogs were to have time in the garden outside the pen..... ie free rain of the garden sometimes why bother building a pen for them? why not just give them the garden? Why lock them in? Very Odd.

Theres always someone home? this means nothing to dogs is they are infact in their pen and not allowed in doors, unless ofcourse this "person" who is at home will actually be out in the pen playing with them all the time? I think not.

NO WHERE does the OP states they will have free roam of the garden at other times... so now again you are twisting the OP's posts or just putting two and two together and getting five simple as.

Your now pulling at straws... based on whats been posted the scenario is as follows:

Two dogs outdoors "full time" 24/7 not allowed indoors
An Area / Pen being built for them
They will be walked at times
When someone is outdoors they will get love , affection... blah.. blah ... blah

Sounds like a lovely life for the dogs it really does :cool:

Neither i nor the OP stated the dogs would have free roam of the garden. There is no post twisting here by me.

cocker5 wrote: »

For the posters who think having a dog in a pen 24/7 outdoors

You were the one that made the assumption that the dogs would be in a pen 24/7, which is not the case. The OP has stated that "They will be getting attention, love, socialisation etc. There's always someone home. They're walked daily and get plenty of affection."

Plenty of dogs have perfectly happy and healthy lives without stepping foot inside a house.

sopretty

Haven't read past page 2, but you could acclimatise them to the outdoors now during the summer. If they are barkers, they will annoy neighbours. Their noses will be seriously out of joint as they were not born and reared by their mother and yourselves, in the great outdoors.
Collies are quite happy outdoors, though my experience would be from farming working dogs, who would be constantly working on the farm during the day, so they would have significant human contact.
I'm not sure about jack russells. They tend to be the 'dog about town' types lol.
I think you might have a few problems down the line with them.
Now is as good a time as you'll get, to get them adapted to outdoor temperatures. On harsh winter nights though, you might have to bring them in, or at least bring the little JR in. And you can't really do that without bringing the other fella in!

cocker5

runawaybishop wrote: »

Neither i nor the OP stated the dogs would have free roam of the garden. There is no post twisting here by me.



You were the one that made the assumption that the dogs would be in a pen 24/7, which is not the case. The OP has stated that "They will be getting attention, love, socialisation etc. There's always someone home. They're walked daily and get plenty of affection."

Plenty of dogs have perfectly happy and healthy lives without stepping foot inside a house.

If thats what you honestly believe then fine, so be it.

if you gave your dogs the choice they would choose to be part of the family 9 times out of 10....

sopretty

Also, as far as I know, outdoor dogs only shed twice a year, as opposed to shedding constantly in the case of dogs kept indoors. For this reason, their coat may end up looking a little 'rugged'.

runawaybishop

cocker5 wrote: »

If thats what you honestly believe then fine, so be it.

if you gave your dogs the choice they would choose to be part of the family 9 times out of 10....

If i gave my dogs the choice they would sleep on my face while eating a steak and i would not be allowed to go to work ever. You have to be practical and reasonable though. The OP has said the dogs have to go outside so we should offer advise to help minimise any issues for the dogs and the op.

cocker5

runawaybishop wrote: »

If i gave my dogs the choice they would sleep on my face while eating a steak and i would not be allowed to go to work ever..

Give the dogs what they want .. make sure to cook the steak, fillet of course to their liking!

runawaybishop

cocker5 wrote: »

Give the dogs what they want .. make sure to cook the steak, fillet of course to their liking!

Unfortunately i must live within my means, so they only get leftover steak on a Friday. They always know when it is steak day though as they will be waiting beside their bowls when i finish my dinner.

sopretty

runawaybishop wrote: »

Unfortunately i must live within my means, so they only get leftover steak on a Friday. They always know when it is steak day though as they will be waiting beside their bowls when i finish my dinner.

How negligent of you - don't you know they should be fed dry food as it's better for their digestive system!!! :P

cocker5

runawaybishop wrote: »

Unfortunately i must live within my means, so they only get leftover steak on a Friday. They always know when it is steak day though as they will be waiting beside their bowls when i finish my dinner.

Leftovers?? what is the world coming to!
My guy never gets steak, not even leftovers, def cruelty in his eyes.

sopretty

OP - will the new property be well secured in the garden where the dogs are? It's just that Jack Russells are wanderers....... Are both dogs neutered?

I think there would be cheaper alternatives to red lamps too in terms of heating the shed (no heat would really be needed, but if it goes down to -5 or so, then you could use some sort of more economical heating appliance. Red lamps are more for concentrated heat on a lamb with hypothermia or something. If a dog is well acclimatised, I can't see any need for a red lamp.

anniehoo

I literally do not know where to start with this thread. It's been painful to read.

I'm locking it until I can go through all the accusations,pedantics and downright childish replies that I've come across so far. I don't have time now and no other Mods are available.