ESB meter problem, going in reverse?

newbie12

Help Needed.
Bought my house a year and four months ago. I was nine months pregnant and in a rush to get a new kitchen put in before baby arrived. To allow for one of the cabinets to go in my husband moved the esb box from under the white box to the right hand side of it. Three esb readers have called in the year to take a reading and yet my bills were still estimated, so when the last guy called I told him I was delighted to see him as im expecting a big bill soon and dont want it to go too high.
YEsterday a man called to inspect the box. He said the meter was going backwards and was intentionally done. I actually thought he meant someone was tapping into my esb!. He was actually quite aggressive saying whoever moved the box rewired it incorrectly and on purpose too. I told him it couldnt be as I was getting bills (although estimated) and paying them and opened my door to three esb readers within a year.
He told me it was fraud, took away pins and screws from the board as "evidence", said they take it v seriously and to get a solicitor. Ill have to back pay a years supply of esb and they prosecute. Im sick all night with worry. I explained it to my husband when he got home and he said he must have rewired it incorrectly or something. We didnt realise you are not allowed to move an esb box at all. Can anyone offer any advice on what I can do?
Im really worried.

Penny Tration

I really think you should do as you were advised and get a solicitor asap. What your husband did (albeit naively) was tamper with the box. That's a very serious issue

wmpdd3

my meter has a tamper proof seal.

they would have to prove that you intended on not paying you proper bill.

about how much have you paid in the last few months?

Lantus

tampering with an esb meter is an offence and esb take is very seriously. They use various countermeasures to detect when a device has been opened or tampered with. It is ESBs property at all times. The fact you didn't know this wont wash with them.

Your best bet is to contact them and explain that you made a genuine mistake as you have already admitted you tampered with it. Maybe get some advice from citizens advice and if needed a solicitor. (wait and see what they do first though after talking to them.)

There are reported incidents of people being fined say €200 to judges ordering the arrest of individuals who engaged in reckless and deliberate interference. If your husband is a qualified electrician he may have a better leg to stand on as he totally removed the device, moved it and rewired it himself. The fact he got it wrong doesn't go well in your favour. He could of injured himself or someone else and as the primary incoming service point there is a high current which could of endangered you and your house and family had something gone wrong.

As the meter is going backwards ESB wont have to do much to prove intentional fraud and criminal intent.

Better get that solicitor ASAP on second thoughts.......

newbie12

I have paid six bills since it was moved. They have all been estimated though, usually between 80-100 euro. I pay by internet banking and sometimes pay some in advance. I knew they were estimated so was expecting a high bill some day. My husband is not an electrician. I dont mean to sound smart but how are you to know you cant move the box? Where should I go from here?

cruizer101

Do you have the initial meter reading from when you moved in, should have this, can you then check what the current meter reading is and this will give the actual amount of units you used, just swap which one you are taking away from the other. Then compare how much you paid to how much you should have paid. This is on the basis that the meter was moved as soon as you moved in.


Probably still good to get a solicitor, but at least if you make every effort to pay what you owe they can't say much.
I'd also question them why none of the previous readers noticed this and it wasn't flagged on the system sooner, has to be said they are slightly at fault in this respect

newbie12

We bought the house in the december but didnt move the box until the march when the kitchen was going in. SO its been a year going in reverse. He was able to tell me it was about 3500 units. I dont know what that is in monetary terms. I have no problem paying what I owe, im more concerned about all this solicitor and legal talk. I think he knew I was genuine and calmed a bit and was actually nice to me before he left but when I asked what im to do he just said esb will be in touch. Im sick with worry. Has this ever happened to anyone?

sopretty

newbie12 wrote: »

We bought the house in the december but didnt move the box until the march when the kitchen was going in. SO its been a year going in reverse. He was able to tell me it was about 3500 units. I dont know what that is in monetary terms. I have no problem paying what I owe, im more concerned about all this solicitor and legal talk. I think he knew I was genuine and calmed a bit and was actually nice to me before he left but when I asked what im to do he just said esb will be in touch. Im sick with worry. Has this ever happened to anyone?

If you were intentionally doing it, you would have slowed down the rate of units, not put the thing in reverse. Sure anyone would know that a reduction in units would come to light at some point! That's your defence!

witnessmenow

cruizer101 wrote: »

Do you have the initial meter reading from when you moved in, should have this, can you then check what the current meter reading is and this will give the actual amount of units you used, just swap which one you are taking away from the other. Then compare how much you paid to how much you should have paid. This is on the basis that the meter was moved as soon as you moved in.


Probably still good to get a solicitor, but at least if you make every effort to pay what you owe they can't say much.
I'd also question them why none of the previous readers noticed this and it wasn't flagged on the system sooner, has to be said they are slightly at fault in this respect

There doesnt sound like there is a record of how much electricity was used, as the current meter reading is going backwards

sopretty

witnessmenow wrote: »

There doesnt sound like there is a record of how much electricity was used, as the current meter reading is going backwards

Presumably at the same rate in reverse, as it would have if going forwards.

Your hubby shouldn't have touched the esb box as he isn't qualified. I would be concerned as to whether your home insurance would be valid.

I would suggest you contact a qualified electrician to check over the house and certify it. This will show that it was an honest, albeit stupid error on your part and that you are ensuring that everything is in order. Get an electrician out ASAP.

Also, find all your bills. Take a meter reading now and time and date it. Get the opening meter reading and deduct. Even though the readings are backwards, the consumption is the same. Read each bill and see how many units you were charged for. Work out how many units you still owe and pay them based in most recent unit price. Don't forget to add VAT.

Try not to worry, you've been paying bills so doesn't look like you were scamming them.

cruizer101

witnessmenow wrote: »

There doesnt sound like there is a record of how much electricity was used, as the current meter reading is going backwards

Assuming the meter was changed when they moved in, and that the rate at which it is going backwards is the same as if going forward, all you are looking for is the difference between the reading then and the reading now which will be the same.


sopretty point is true also that there is no reason to just have the meter go backward go the full period, they may try argue that it just happened to be backwards when they viewed it though.


Also OP see if you can get copies of the readings they made throughout the year. I'm guessing what happened was they took the reading, didn't notice the disc going backwards, got back to office, went to enter it in but saw it didn't make sense so thought they must have misread it as so it then just got estimated. But there should be a record of these and these would help show it has being going backwards the whole time and so the difference between initial and current reading is correct. kind of.

Ray Palmer

Moving the meter without contacting the ESB is an offense in itself. Your husband carried out this offense. The fact he did it incorrectly whether on purpose or not is neither here nor there.

How would you feel if you went into a petrol station and they were not following the weights an measures because some owner fixed it himself?

newbie12

He said it has gone 3500 units in reverse. I asked it he could tell me when it had started reversing but he couldnt. I know there was a flood in the house when the last owners had it and they had the place rewired but in all honestly its more than likely happened when my husband moved the box. So id imagine it will be a years bill mines the estimated bills ive paid. But then I met someone who used to work for esb, she said they will always bring something to court, they'll be back to remove the box and send to a fraud department for inspection and ill be fined. Im literally sick. Has anyone ever had dealings with this? I literally could kill my husband today.

sopretty

Also check whether your meter box has some sort of notice on it such as 'Danger, this device may not be tampered with' or 'This is the property of the ESB' and then whack your hubby over the head with said notice.

Ah no, I'd say it will be obvious it's not fraud.

Not sure about moving it though. Tell your husband to do an OP on it and say that he didn't have time to think, MyLady.

Gatling

sopretty wrote: »

Ah no, I'd say it will be obvious it's not fraud.

Qualified to make that statement

newbie12

Listen, I understand now but in now way did we think this was illegal to do. I will always pay my bills. I didnt mean to do anything illegal. Im upset by this and want it sorted.

newbie12

whats an OP?

sopretty

newbie12 wrote: »

He said it has gone 3500 units in reverse. I asked it he could tell me when it had started reversing but he couldnt. I know there was a flood in the house when the last owners had it and they had the place rewired but in all honestly its more than likely happened when my husband moved the box. So id imagine it will be a years bill mines the estimated bills ive paid. But then I met someone who used to work for esb, she said they will always bring something to court, they'll be back to remove the box and send to a fraud department for inspection and ill be fined. Im literally sick. Has anyone ever had dealings with this? I literally could kill my husband today.

Ah don't be worrying. Definitely get a solicitor. I don't think even a qualified electrician can move those boxes, I think it has to be done by an ESB technician.

Until you're actually charged with something (or your husband is), I would do absolutely nothing. If you receive a summons or two, then get your wee ass straight to a solicitor. In the meantime, save up a few hundred euros for the cost of the solicitor/any fines etc.

sopretty

newbie12 wrote: »

whats an OP?

Lol, sorry - Oscar Pistorius. When he didn't like any question he was asked during cross-examination he repeatedly claimed that he didn't have time to think.

sopretty

Gatling wrote: »

Qualified to make that statement

Not a bit!

Gatling

newbie12 wrote: »

whats an OP?

Original Poster ,

Your going to have to wait and see what the ESB do next I'm sure they'll have a fraud investigation going through what and how it happened ,
Its one of these moments of wait and see and be prepared to seek proper qualified legal advice

newbie12

Ok, thanks for advice. In the meantime could I start putting money onto the account so the bill is not as big when it arrives? I have it set up 24hr banking

sopretty

newbie12 wrote: »

Ok, thanks for advice. In the meantime could I start putting money onto the account so the bill is not as big when it arrives? I have it set up 24hr banking

You could, but your bills might have been overestimated also. I wouldn't do anything further yourself (move away from the meter box!). You can ring a solicitor and see whether they would request the old meter readings or whether you should go ahead yourself in the meantime.

sopretty

Definitely tighten the belt and start saving though.

gjc

Don't let your hubbie anywhere near the water / gas meters ...... And Get a solicitor ASAP

markad1

Take detailed pictures of all the electrical connections, wires, ESB meter and other bits before anything is changed or removed so you have a record of it for later if needed.

newbie12

The man who called yesterday worked on it and its now going the correct way. Also, he put a dont tamper with sign on it and dated it.

Skatedude

unless your husband is a certified electrician, then he may be in additional trouble. I believe it recently came into law that only certified electricians are allowed to do any electrical work in a house as of October 1 last year. But not sure if they are actually prosecuting yet.

macnug

Don't worry too much. The absolute max is a district court fine, I think prison is not out of the question but as long you pay what you owe and the fine you'll be grand.

the_syco

newbie12 wrote: »

I know there was a flood in the house when the last owners had it and they had the place rewired but in all honestly its more than likely happened when my husband moved the box.

As you're not a qualified electrician, you do not know this. Thus, stop trying to hang your husband.

If your husband isn't an electrician, and messed with the main electric supply to the house, he's very lucky to be still alive.