Water Charge Quotas

Busted Flat.

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Your maths seems to be off. You think a multi billion euro current budget deficit can be fixed by reducing some pensions?

It is like a hole in your heating oil tank you will eventually end up cold.

That_Girl_ Is_ A_Cowboy

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Your maths seems to be off. You think a multi billion euro current budget deficit can be fixed by reducing some pensions?

But they should be leading by example. Cut their own high pay and pensions. See how they get on with rising costs.

What's happening is something like what you'd see in medieval ireland, paying rent to the high kings.

Hotale.com

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Cop on it is not a few pensions.

It is! It seems like a lot of money but it really really isn't, it would barely start to solve our problems in truth.

Amirani

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Cop on it is not a few pensions.

In the context of our growing debt burden, yes it is.

You know that a billion is a 10 digit number and a million is a 7 digit number right? Do you understand the immense difference between them? It seems clear that you don't. Pensions and politician salaries represent a tiny fraction of 1% of our current expenditure. How come it's only the people with no background in maths, economics or any general numerical ability that come up with these ridiculous arguments?

Hotale.com

That_Girl_ Is_ A_Cowboy wrote: »

But they should be leading by example. Cut their own high pay and pensions. See how they get on with rising costs.

What's happening is something like what you'd see in medieval ireland, paying rent to the high kings.

They should lead by example but they won't. Would you give up their lifestyle if you worked hard to get elected? Call me selfish, but I certainly wouldn't.

Amirani

That_Girl_ Is_ A_Cowboy wrote: »

But they should be leading by example. Cut their own high pay and pensions. See how they get on with rising costs.

What's happening is something like what you'd see in medieval ireland, paying rent to the high kings.

They have cut their pay and pensions. Didn't seem to make any difference to anybody. I'm not entirely sure why they need to be leading by example, that's not their job.

Do you know much a TD gets paid? Do you know how much their pension is? What do you think are fairer values? What makes you qualified to decide this?

Busted Flat.

Hotale.com wrote: »

It is! It seems like a lot of money but it really really isn't, it would barely start to solve our problems in truth.

But it would be a start, instead of cutting jobs in special needs teachers, nurses, and the closing of hospital wards and the cutbacks in the emergency services.

Hotale.com

Busted Flat. wrote: »

But it would be a start, instead of cutting jobs in special needs teachers, nurses, and the closing of hospital wards and the cutbacks in the emergency services.

In truth they'd have to do all that and a lot more.

Busted Flat.

Diego Simeone wrote: »

They have cut their pay and pensions. Didn't seem to make any difference to anybody. I'm not entirely sure why they need to be leading by example, that's not their job.

Do you know much a TD gets paid? Do you know how much their pension is? What do you think are fairer values? What makes you qualified to decide this?

I have read some posts which I just would not comment on because of their silly comment, But I will give you the honor of my response. You really take the biscuit.

Hotale.com

Busted Flat. wrote: »

I have read some posts which I just would not comment on because of their silly comment, But I will give you the honor of my response. You really take the biscuit.

I think he's just accepted the sad reality.

That_Girl_ Is_ A_Cowboy

Diego Simeone wrote: »

They have cut their pay and pensions. Didn't seem to make any difference to anybody. I'm not entirely sure why they need to be leading by example, that's not their job.

Do you know much a TD gets paid? Do you know how much their pension is? What do you think are fairer values? What makes you qualified to decide this?

Leading by example is what great leadership is. Do you think they ever worry about joining a dole queue? Worry by their jobs being replaced by internships?

zenno

I'll just say this regarding the recently introduced water charges... The weak herd mentality in the scenario of just pay it love, we don't need this hassle and we haven't got the time to be bothered with protesting against it, what can we do anyway love, we'll just pay it like the household charge and be done with it. Done with it ? there will be no done with it, as new taxes are a coming.

This is the unfortunate mentality of most Irish folk, and it is lazy, and down-right weakness, because the herd will follow if they hear this sort of bastardism.

The only way Irish citizens can win, is if they give a damn, and forward their protest against an unjust secondary tax. If not, then be the slave of corrupt government for the rest of your life.

This double taxation of water on the Irish citizen should be fought hard with an uncompliance of cooperation in relation to installed meters. If people just roll over again on this one, then you are most definitely the slave to government, and expect to be ultimately screwed thereafter.


@ The Irish Times

While the majority of property tax collected last year went towards establishment costs for Irish Water.

The amount of monies pumped into this Irish Water leaking pipe-hole, How much more monies will be wasted in this Irish water sieve.

RandomName2

Is it true that people living is semi detached homes will face a larger tax than those living in terrace houses?

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/families-left-without-water-meters-must-pay-72-extra-30193805.html

If the water charge is just a poll tax, wouldn't you expect it to be charged per person?

5live

emo72 wrote: »

what do utility companies like electric ireland or bord gais do if you have no metre? do they charge? do they ****.

water is already paid well paid for with an extra few percent on vat and motor tax. we already pay. they want us to pay again because the general taxation goes to pay our very dodgy euro debts. and when its up and running they will sell it off and watch the bills shoot up.

I'm afraid you are incorrect there.

If you have no meter then they will send you a bill for the estimated usage. An example would be an out-farm with an electric fence only.

Banjo String

Richard Bruton made a gaffe on news talk this morning. I heard him with my own ears too.

The mask slipped. Enda gonna be mad.

http://newstalk.ie/mobile/index.php?id=24117

mickydoomsux

Just listening to a vox pop with the fools in the housing estate in Cork who have blockaded the road to stop the installation of water meters.

Must be nice to be at home on a Thursday afternoon. Plus, they are so poorly informed that it isn't even funny. Apparently what irish water are doing is illegal because these people didn't ask for water meters.

Banjo String

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Just listening to a vox pop with the fools in the housing estate in Cork who have blockaded the road to stop the installation of water meters.

Must be nice to be at home on a Thursday afternoon. Plus, they are so poorly informed that it isn't even funny. Apparently what irish water are doing is illegal because these people didn't ask for water meters.

Fair play to them.

Nice to see some folk have still a back bone in the country.

MadYaker

That_Girl_ Is_ A_Cowboy wrote: »

Leading by example is what great leadership is. Do you think they ever worry about joining a dole queue? Worry by their jobs being replaced by internships?

What the hell does this have to do with water charges exactly??? TDs have already taken large pay cuts, larger than most PS workers. You can't expect them to work for minimum wage so get over it.

I support water charges if were paying for the amount we use, the quota system can work. In France households are allocated quotas, if you use less you get some of the money back (or rather your account is in credit) and if you go over the quota you get charged extra. As far as I can remember the quota is based the number of permanent residents in the house.

That_Girl_ Is_ A_Cowboy

That_Girl_ Is_ A_Cowboy wrote: »

Leading by example is what great leadership is. Do you think they ever worry about joining a dole queue? Worry by their jobs being replaced by internships?

I believe the government is due to target black market granny babysitters. As in those who help. Maybe an older relative free and available and younger relative maybe a daughter or son who's grown up and now have a young family. They may need childcare and find it too expensive or they might only need someone for a few hours a week. The older relative could do it and they get a small top up of their wage or pension. It's a win/win for the families.

There's talk about dragging these granny and relative babysitters into the tax net and not only that a requirement for these grannies to be qualified in childcare.

Another example the government could lead by example is getting themselves qualified with papers in politics and economics. Make it a requirement to have some studies in politics and economics for those wishing to run for election.

Caliden

MadYaker wrote: »

What the hell does this have to do with water charges exactly??? TDs have already taken large pay cuts, larger than most PS workers. You can't expect them to work for minimum wage so get over it.

I support water charges if were paying for the amount we use, the quota system can work. In France households are allocated quotas, if you use less you get some of the money back (or rather your account is in credit) and if you go over the quota you get charged extra. As far as I can remember the quota is based the number of permanent residents in the house.

A 7% cut on a 200k wage for Enda Kenny is a large pay cut is it?

0 TD's are part of the target audience for their tax increases and their speeches about 'difficult decisions to make' are bull. The people making the difficult decisions are those that are choosing between paying their motor tax this month or putting food on the table.

Hotblack Desiato

emo72 wrote: »

Nobody should be silenced. But if you have a vested interest, well let it be known.

No. You?
Pathetic that you feel the need to make insinuations against people just for disagreeing with you, though.

Hotblack Desiato

That_Girl_ Is_ A_Cowboy wrote: »

I believe the government is due to target black market granny babysitters.

If they're getting paid for it then proper order. Or is tax dodging only a bad thing above a certain amount?
Pensioners sold their souls to Bertie and voted for him in droves again and again and did very well out of it and still are. Low income families with young children have been hit far worse.

Amirani

That_Girl_ Is_ A_Cowboy wrote: »

Another example the government could lead by example is getting themselves qualified with papers in politics and economics. Make it a requirement to have some studies in politics and economics for those wishing to run for election.

Should we not let the people of Ireland decide that? Like, you know, a democracy?

People can elect whoever they want to represent them.

Ghost Buster

Seeing as I pay close to 100 tax per week out of my low wages, tax on virtually everything I buy, vehicle tax, a licence fee, USC, property tax, household charge and a pension contribution then naturally I have absolutely no issue paying for water which smells of domestos.







































......................sarcasm..............

Idbatterim

Just listening to a vox pop with the fools in the housing estate in Cork who have blockaded the road to stop the installation of water meters.

Must be nice to be at home on a Thursday afternoon. Plus, they are so poorly informed that it isn't even funny. Apparently what irish water are doing is illegal because these people didn't ask for water meters.

Nail on the head, hence why I posted...

Then you have all the rabbling on here about the gubberment and what a disgrace everything is, we are still borrowing billions a year plus interest? Id love to hear what their proposed solutions are, should Noonan go to vegas and throw a few billion on 36 red? You can also be guaranteed that those with the least to complain about (pensioners and the career welfarers) will be making the most noise...

Sam Kade

HardLuckWoman wrote: »

There's water coming from the sky most days. Towns and villages were flooded a few months ago and people swimming and living in it. Why charge for it.

Because it costs money to get it flowing out your tap.
Just get a bucket and disconnect from the public if it's that easy.

Robbo

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Just listening to a vox pop with the fools in the housing estate in Cork who have blockaded the road to stop the installation of water meters.

Must be nice to be at home on a Thursday afternoon. Plus, they are so poorly informed that it isn't even funny. Apparently what irish water are doing is illegal because these people didn't ask for water meters.

That'll be the freemen among them, fresh from freeing us all from mortgage debt, defeating the Property Tax (all donations gladly accepted, cash only) and winning each of us €1m compensation from the NWO for being beastly to us all.

There's also a glorious picture where one of the locals is holding a placard with the Biohazard symbol on it, decrying the "radiation pulses" which occur "190,000" times a day and will give your water cancer. It's like they went out of their way to avoid anything resembling a fact.

Hotale.com

Robbo wrote: »

That'll be the freemen among them, fresh from freeing us all from mortgage debt, defeating the Property Tax (all donations gladly accepted, cash only) and winning each of us €1m compensation from the NWO for being beastly to us all.

There's also (snip) where one of the locals is holding a placard with the Biohazard symbol on it, decrying the "radiation pulses" which occur "190,000" times a day and will give your water cancer. It's like they went out of their way to avoid anything resembling a fact.

I actually laughed when I saw "surveillance device" on a placard. It would be quite an ineffectual water metre if it didn't survey water usage.

Wossack

the conspiracy theories do the opposition a disservice

Im against the meters, but dont want to be associated with these mongs

5live

Wossack wrote: »

the conspiracy theories do the opposition a disservice

Im against the meters, but dont want to be associated with these mongs

Its not the rational people that will be interviewed.

Its the guy wearing the tinfoil hat and beating a drum while dancing a jig:D

Sam Kade

I heard a young woman on the radio today saying that her stopcock was on her property and she will sue Irish water for trespass if they dig it up. She will then get a flat rate bill that could be dearer than her usage.

Hotblack Desiato

Wossack wrote: »

the conspiracy theories do the opposition a disservice

Im against the meters, but dont want to be associated with these mongs

Not going to the NATIONAL ROTEST RALI then? Aw.

relax carry on

ninja900 wrote: »

Not going to the NATIONAL ROTEST RALI then? Aw.

I have to ask, what is with the Caps lock issue that those who seem to oppose water charges, the property tax and various other issues, have. It seems to be isolated to the more rabid tin foil hat wearing posters.

Banjo String

Was listening to Ivan Yates this morning on Newstalk. He reckons the local elections have basically now become a "water charge referendum".

I dont agree with all of Ivan Yates views and comments, but he correctly announced today that the govt made a complete balls up, setting up I.W, and despite the fact they had 3 years to get things sorted, and details printed they completely and utterly dragged their heels, he reckoned they couldn't have committed any bigger cardinal sin than letting the whole fiasco run on, right up in to the mouth of a local election.

He also proclaimed that Phil Hogan was completely inept.

Ivan got things spot on this morning IMO.

I think FG will lose control of almost every local constituency, and rightly so.

Busted Flat.

Banjo String wrote: »

Was listening to Ivan Yates this morning on Newstalk. He reckons the local elections have basically now become a "water charge referendum".

I dont agree with all of Ivan Yates views and comments, but he correctly announced today that the govt made a complete balls up, setting up I.W, and despite the fact they had 3 years to get things sorted, and details printed they completely and utterly dragged their heels, he reckoned they couldn't have committed any bigger cardinal sin than letting the whole fiasco run on, right up in to the mouth of a local election.

He also proclaimed that Phil Hogan was completely inept.

Ivan got things spot on this morning IMO.

I think FG will lose control of almost every local constituency, and rightly so.

Hopefully, what I can gather from the few people I talk to they are voting SF and these are the people who argued with me in the last election against voting for SF. I won't hold my breath but this crowd need a harsh lesson in transparency, honesty, accountability, it is something they promised, but then again what did the rabbit say.

na1

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Sure there will be an air tax some day. Government has to find new ways to get money.

Every human being exhales carbon dioxide and have to pay carbon taxes!

na1

Sam Kade wrote: »

Because it costs money to get it flowing out your tap.
Just get a bucket and disconnect from the public if it's that easy.

Everything cost money. the doctors cost money: I pay them per visit, the roads cost money - I pay road tax, the firebrigade costs money, etc. so what is income tax for?

relax carry on

na1 wrote: »

Everything cost money. the doctors cost money: I pay them per visit, the roads cost money - I pay road tax, the firebrigade costs money, etc. so what is income tax for?

Am getting tired of this. Here's my simplistic Monday morning answer to this never ending moan fest.

Having a society costs money. Depending on the type of society you want, the costs will be higher or lower than other societies.
The money raised by the governing body of the society is used to fund the running of the various aspects of that society including infrastructure, admin costs, health, repaying loans etc.
If the majority of a particular society wish to alter the makeup of the society in general, for example to tax less and to provide less services, then they, in a democracy anyway, can vote for that change by selecting parties to provide that change. Alternatively they can organize a non political way of bringing about their aims, provided they can raise enough support.
Since I do not see any evidence for massive support for option 2 that leaves option 1. If you cant find a party or collection of candidates who carryout the change you want, when they are elected, it maybe time to wonder why these parties do not exist. Maybe most of your society do not have the same desires you have and are in the overall scheme of things content with the society they have now.
That is not to say they are ecstatic about the financial constraints the society is in right now. Nor would they be happy about poor management of the society. But they may trust the governing bodies of the society to work in the best interests of the society. They will continue push governing bodies to provide the society they want using political means and the existing structures of that society.

Apologies for the multiple use of the word society but it's to reiterate that it's not just those who moan who have a voice. The majority who just carry on are worthy of attention too.

Short version. Society, terms and conditions apply.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Diego Simeone wrote: »

You pretty much do already. Most bottled water comes from the same sources as tap water.

Utter rubbish...

na1

relax carry on wrote: »

If the majority of a particular society wish to alter the makeup of the society in general, for example to tax less and to provide less services,

The 'majority vote' crap doesn't work.
If you have a group of 10 people, and say to 6 of them:
"lets vote so the other 4 will pay you the money for life"
And during the elections your party will get 6 (60%) votes, and the other 4 who are actually paying for everything will have their voice ignored.

There are over 2 millions in this country on the state support, and of course they will vote to keep this support untouched. But the minority who pays for this doesn't have a vote just because they are outnumbered.

Phoebas

na1 wrote: »

There are over 2 millions in this country on the state support, and of course they will vote to keep this support untouched. But the minority who pays for this doesn't have a vote just because they are outnumbered.

I don't see anyone running on a policy of cutting state supports as a matter of principle - pretty much everyone wants a strong welfare state.

But there have been various cuts to social welfare supports over the last number of years, implemented by a party (LAB) who are traditionally supportive of state spending.

Busted Flat.

na1 wrote: »

The 'majority vote' crap doesn't work.
If you have a group of 10 people, and say to 6 of them:
"lets vote so the other 4 will pay you the money for life"
And during the elections your party will get 6 (60%) votes, and the other 4 who are actually paying for everything will have their voice ignored.

There are over 2 millions in this country on the state support, and of course they will vote to keep this support untouched. But the minority who pays for this doesn't have a vote just because they are outnumbered.

The ones you are refering to would be retired politicians and senior civil servants and early retirees in the public service. Including their large gratuity payments.
Retirees from semi state companies, ESB, Bord Gais,Bord na mona, CRC, Rehab, I am sure there are others on the parasite list, and last but not least FAS with the piano player that Ms Harney had when her husband held the reins. + hairdo manicure and other panel beating jobs she had done while her many junkets. That is what the water charges are for that massive dept that was run up, and put so many on the live register and emigrant planes.

Idbatterim

There are over 2 millions in this country on the state support, and of course they will vote to keep this support untouched. But the minority who pays for this doesn't have a vote just because they are outnumbered.

The only ones who seem to give a toss about workers and somewhat about the waste is FG...

How can you when you are Labour, and on the one had presiding over a €20,000,000,000 welfare budget and on the other hand supporting the haddington road agreement, two massive black holes, not to mention the bank bailout, but thats academic at this stage, someone has to pay! surprise surprise its the usual suspects! You can win several votes by paying off the wasters or potentially lose one but biting the hand thats feeds, pretty easy choice for those with no moral compass IMO...

listermint

Idbatterim wrote: »

The only ones who seem to give a toss about workers and somewhat about the waste is FG...

How can you when you are Labour, and on the one had presiding over a €20,000,000,000 welfare budget and on the other hand supporting the haddington road agreement, two massive black holes, not to mention the bank bailout, but thats academic at this stage, someone has to pay! surprise surprise its the usual suspects! You can win several votes by paying off the wasters or potentially lose one but biting the hand thats feeds, pretty easy choice for those with no moral compass IMO...

Can you provide some evidence, I am genuinely interested as to how FG have demonstrated any connection with Mr General public in the last while .

Idbatterim

Can you provide some evidence, I am genuinely interested as to how FG have demonstrated any connection with Mr General public in the last while .

define joe public, those on welfare or those in employment, both could be defined as joe public... FG seem to be the ones who will stand up for the working man, not enough as far as I'm concerned, but certainly more than the rest of them!

And if general public is defined as 99.9% of the population, i.e. not one of other crooks claiming massive, pensions and lump sum, i.e. Aherne and Neary etc or other high ranking civil and public servants...

Can you provide some evidence, I am genuinely interested as to how FG have demonstrated any connection with Mr General public in the last while .

And if joe public isnt expected to pay for it, i.e increased tax or reduced services? who is? go after the excessive pensions of retired politicians and civil servants? I am all for it, but it would keep the country running for a few minutes per year... Realistically Joe Public is 99.99% of the population, how many actually have a serious say in crucial decisions, a handful of the cabinet and some senior civil servants, thats it.

Actually we Joe public do get a say once every few years, but its pretty much a choice between tweedle dee and tweedle dum! Here is the extent of the average Irish voters mentality, boo hiss, FF have damaged the country (conveniently forgetting they are the ones that put them into power and voted for their suicidal politics, of destroying the tax base, relying one off transaction taxes) us etc etc, lets punish them, in come FG / Lab, boo hiss FG / Lab have inflicted cuts / increased taxes! Lets vote in... You see the one thing that does truly hold them to account, is money, at the end of the day, thats what all the posturing and bickering etc is about... If there wasnt a financial problem do these idiots who think there is some easy option, think the biggest populists would be inflicting austerity for the sake of it? Obviously so...

Long story short, when you vote for the populist short term gain, dont be surprised when long term it blows up in your, the collective our faces!

petronius

Water charges quotas are a nonsense. You can not generalise as to how much water someone should use, particularly if they need more water than the average due to domestic or medical circumstances.
People dont waste that much water, realistically how much could you safe, share a shower, flush the jacks less often, what impact will these have on public health
Irish water waste vastly more water than people do due to bad systems, bad infrastructure, and they waste money on consultants, and on the sweet deal they have for their union members

jamesbere

Dragging up an old thread I see