The Politics of House Viewing

Zulu

Potatoeman wrote: »

No rent relief, are you not declaring?

:rolleyes: How pathetic. How do you figure that I'm not declaring Potatoeman? Other than really, really, childish aspersions?

I pay my tax. I register my tenants with the PRTB. And I choose who rents my property.

OldNotWIse

Zulu wrote: »

:rolleyes: How pathetic. How do you figure that I'm not declaring Potatoeman? Other than really, really, childish aspersions?

I pay my tax. I register my tenants with the PRTB. And I choose who rents my property.

So what's your reasoning for refusing RA? I dont think the question is remotely pathetic. From my own experience, I asked our LL for RSI number for rent relief form and was told "oh that wont be possible - thats why we keep the rent so low"...wink wink nudge nuge

Potatoeman

Zulu wrote: »

:rolleyes: How pathetic. How do you figure that I'm not declaring Potatoeman? Other than really, really, childish aspersions?

I pay my tax. I register my tenants with the PRTB. And I choose who rents my property.

Thats the only reason I can think of for not taking RR are you talking about RA. You are kind of tuochie.

johnnyskeleton

murphaph wrote: »

If you go for a 1k bank loan they'll ask to see this stuff. No reason a LL who is about to hand over legal control of an asset worth hundreds of thousands shouldn't see the same information really.

If you apply for a loan that you can easily afford the bank will say yes, no problem, let us know if you want some more. Show it to a landlord and he will suddenly realise that he forgot to add on the €100 surcharge to your rent!

murphaph

Potatoeman wrote: »

Banks are bound by compliance to protect the information they receive. Its tightly controlled even within the bank.

Last time I opened a bank account in Ireland I realised half an hour after leaving the branch that my passport and statements from previous bank hadn't been handed bck to me in the envelope. I went back and all the stuff was sitting on top of a photocopier in the public office.

harpsman

donfers wrote: »

Firstly I don't believe they have any right to request bank records nor have I ever been asked for them

Secondly in terms of judging who represents the lowesr risk of non-payment, damage to property, anti-social behaviour and noise - good luck determining that while someone walks around your house for 5 minutes asking a few questions.

The whole process strikes me as absurd and basically necessitates the landlord to be highly judgmental based on very little actual evidence.

A better way?

If I seem like a reasonably normal person, have solid references, am employed and am the first person to tell you that I'll stump up the deposit and first month's rent then bingo let's sign

By the same token should you have to rent the first appartment you see or do you get to be choosy? im being a little flippant, but why shouldnt the landlord get to choose who he rents to?

harpsman

The_Conductor wrote: »

Don't offer it to the civil servant- god only knows what salary he'll be on after the next budget- civil servants and social welfare recipients- need not apply, as neither have a predictable income- and both are budget targets. We're going to cut another 2 billion from the budget in October- its politically expedient to target civil servants- and social welfare recipients- to pay for small income tax adjustments for PRSI employees.

I would say its politically expedient not to target those 2 groups. Teyve got off pretty lightly.

FrStone

harpsman wrote: »

I would say its politically expedient not to target those 2 groups. Teyve got off pretty lightly.

As if! However, we are going off topic.

My parents rent a house in rural Cork. The last time we held viewings was early 2010.

Basically, we gave everyone who was interested a viewing on their own and had a chat with them. We then decided who to pick based on what type of person they looked like, their employment (professional is best), what sort of family unit they were. We didn't really want young families or groups of young adults.

In the end we picked a lovely man in his forties who was quite nice, down to earth and very helpful. He pays his rent on time every month and my father even goes for a pint with him when he is handing it over.

There were some people we turned away straight away - those who turned up wondering would we accept rent allowance even though we stated on daft that we would not be accepting it. Another person asking would we accept pets, even though again we stated we would not.

Another woman was just quite bossy, demanding this that and the other, thinking that she would be the only one who would be interested in renting "in this climate", she tried to negotiate a lower rate of rent. She was quite shocked when we rang her up and said we weren't interested in having her as a tenant.

The current tenant is moving out of the country in a few months so we will be advertising again and using the same guidelines.

Zulu

OldNotWIse wrote: »

So what's your reasoning for refusing RA? I dont think the question is remotely pathetic.

It is a childish and ignorant conclusion to jump to. My reasoning I've explained here plenty of times. Simply put, I dont want to deal with a 3rd party, I want rent to be paid in advance not arrears, and I don't want to rent to someone who can't afford it (in case the government choose to cut the allowance).

From my own experience, I asked our LL for RSI number for rent relief form and was told "oh that wont be possible - thats why we keep the rent so low"...wink wink nudge nuge

Why did you rent from them so? Your landlord does not equate to every landlord.

Potatoeman wrote: »

Thats the only reason I can think of for not taking RR are you talking about RA. You are kind of tuochie.

Well I just gave you three more. And if you put your mind to it (as opposed to jumping to conclusions), I'm sure you'll think of some more. I'm "touchy" because I pay enough tax without being accused of tax evasion - to assume I'd dodge tax (without ever knowing me) is pretty rude; what do you expect? I came on here an gave an honest answer to which you choose to accuse me of criminal activity.

Axwell

Zulu wrote: »

It is a childish and ignorant conclusion to jump to. My reasoning I've explained here plenty of times. Simply put, I dont want to deal with a 3rd party, I want rent to be paid in advance not arrears, and I don't want to rent to someone who can't afford it (in case the government choose to cut the allowance).

The two of you are talking about 2 separate things..

You stated no RENT RELIEF...you meant no Rent Allowance it seems i.e. where the council pays an amount of the tenants rent.

Rent relief is the claim back given in tax refunds to people who pay rent on accommodation.

Zulu

Axwell wrote: »

The two of you are talking about 2 separate things..

You stated no RENT RELIEF...you meant no Rent Allowance it seems i.e. where the council pays an amount of the tenants rent.

Rent relief is the claim back given in tax refunds to people who pay rent on accommodation.

Apologies - you are correct. Rent Allowance. Thanks for clarifying Axwell.

TheBandicoot

In fairness I've never even heard of rent relief, I thought it was a historical thing and didn't apply anymore. Can you really get a few hundred euro in tax credit this very year? Had no idea!

Citizenpain

TheBandicoot wrote: »

In fairness I've never even heard of rent relief, I thought it was a historical thing and didn't apply anymore. Can you really get a few hundred euro in tax credit this very year? Had no idea!

it's almost gone....

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/credits/rent-credit.html

TheBandicoot

Citizenpain wrote: »

it's almost gone....

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/credits/rent-credit.html

That's what I mean though:

No credit is due to individuals who began renting after 7 December 2010.

So it doesn't actually exist unless you started renting somewhere 4 years ago and are still there? So for all intents and purposes, to the average person it is not available.

Santa Cruz

OldNotWIse wrote: »

So what's your reasoning for refusing RA? I dont think the question is remotely pathetic. From my own experience, I asked our LL for RSI number for rent relief form and was told "oh that wont be possible - thats why we keep the rent so low"...wink wink nudge nuge

I advertise, take five calls, ask a bit about each background. Then arrange a viewing, they give me details of place of employment and I tell them that I will let them know the next day. A quick call to HR to see if they are working there.
If happy with the answers I will make a decision on who I think will be the best.

I do everything by the book. I don't take Rent allowance because I don't need to and I have heard too many true stories about people on rent allowance wrecking properties, not paying up, fighting with neighbours etc.
Not all on rent allowance are troublemakers but it's not worth the risk

baldbear

I recently found a 1 bed in Dublin after 3 weeks viewing. Any place that was around the 850-950 mark had alot of others viewing. I found it a pain in the arse looking around a place with other people tripping over your feet.

The landlord we have now wanted references and a chat to make sure we are decent tenants and rang our refernece/work to check us out.

Happy hunting!

dRNk SAnTA

The girlfriend and I were looking to rent somewhere late last year. It took almost 2 months to find the right spot - there are some atrocious properties out there.

The most worrying experience was viewing a small house on Harty Place, Dublin 8. The letting agent expected all interested parties to transfer full deposit (equal to 1 month rent) to the landlord's account, and then all unsuccessful parties would have the money returned.

"How else would we know people are serious" we were told. I think the expression on my face told her what I thought of that proposal.

Ann Landers

murphaph wrote: »

bank statements will be asked for as there is no credit scoring system.

In my experience, that's not happening currently in general, even in Dublin.

The_Conductor

Ann Landers wrote: »

In my experience, that's not happening currently in general, even in Dublin.

Its quite hit and miss- and really depends on the landlord- from annecdotal evidence it would appear to be more common in areas where there might be a higher than normal student population- as a mechanism for rooting out students aspiring to rent a house and house share.

Its far from unusual though- and becoming more and more popular by the day.

drumswan

The_Conductor wrote: »

Its far from unusual though- and becoming more and more popular by the day.

Have you got an actual source on this?

Ann Landers

The_Conductor wrote: »

Its quite hit and miss- and really depends on the landlord- from annecdotal evidence it would appear to be more common in areas where there might be a higher than normal student population- as a mechanism for rooting out students aspiring to rent a house and house share.

Its far from unusual though- and becoming more and more popular by the day.

I'd be very reluctant to show bank statements to some randomer property owner and reckon I'd be far from alone here.

No Pants

Every so often works asks me for a bank statement or a phone bill as part of my expenses. They get a heavily redacted copy, essentially a black sheet of paper with my name on top and maybe one line item. I would do the same here.

murphaph

Ann Landers wrote: »

I'd be very reluctant to show bank statements to some randomer property owner and reckon I'd be far from alone here.

But you'd expect a LL to hand over legal control of his 250k asset to some randomer tenant that he doesn't know either? I don't think tenants realise the huge position of trust they are being given when the tenancy commences.

Ann Landers

murphaph wrote: »

But you'd expect a LL to hand over legal control of his 250k asset to some randomer tenant that he doesn't know either? I don't think tenants realise the huge position of trust they are being given when the tenancy commences.

If a tenant falls into arrears on their rent, they can be evicted. As regards the state the property will be kept in, bank statements won't help you with this, landlord references are what you need there. Someone can have a well-paying job and be a total pig.

No Pants

murphaph wrote: »

But you'd expect a LL to hand over legal control of his 250k asset to some randomer tenant that he doesn't know either?

You left out the exchange of money bit.

murphaph

Ann Landers wrote: »

If a tenant falls into arrears on their rent, they can be evicted.

Spoken like somebody who's never had a tenant default and need evicting. I have (commercial property, residential is even slower for the LL as he has to deal with the inept PRTB first before he can go to court) and I can tell you that it is a long slow and extremely expensive process. My tenant decided he wasn't going to pay and as well as the 14 months lost rent I had a solicitor and barrister to pay. I won't say exactly how much that cost, but it was a very significant amount.

Ann Landers wrote: »

As regards the state the property will be kept in, bank statements won't help you with this, landlord references are what you need there. Someone can have a well-paying job and be a total pig.

A LL could and should use all means available to him to check out the person he is going to allow to become his tenant as once the tenancy commences, the power is almost all in the hands of the tenant. Checking that the prospective tenant has healthy finances is crucial and we have no credit scoring system in Ireland.

As for someone being a pig...well, so long as they are not damaging the property then it's their lifestyle choice to be untidy. So long as they pay the rent and tidy up before they leave, most LLs won't care.

murphaph

No Pants wrote: »

You left out the exchange of money bit.

Tenant can stop paying rent and it'll take a year+ to get him out. That lost rent and legal expense will never be recovered in most cases as tenant's usually have no assets which can be easily targeted.

No Pants

murphaph wrote: »

Tenant can stop paying rent and it'll take a year+ to get him out. That lost rent and legal expense will never be recovered in most cases as tenant's usually have no assets which can be easily targeted.

And what bit of paper can they or anyone else supply that'll guarantee that won't happen?

Zulu

No Pants wrote: »

And what bit of paper can they or anyone else supply that'll guarantee that won't happen?

None, but every little helps. At least if you know they aren't running a massive overdraft there's more chance they will at least be ABLE to pay you. Of course you can't guarantee they will

Ann Landers

murphaph wrote: »

Spoken like somebody who's never had a tenant default and need evicting. I have (commercial property, residential is even slower for the LL as he has to deal with the inept PRTB first before he can go to court) and I can tell you that it is a long slow and extremely expensive process. My tenant decided he wasn't going to pay and as well as the 14 months lost rent I had a solicitor and barrister to pay. I won't say exactly how much that cost, but it was a very significant amount.


A LL could and should use all means available to him to check out the person he is going to allow to become his tenant as once the tenancy commences, the power is almost all in the hands of the tenant. Checking that the prospective tenant has healthy finances is crucial and we have no credit scoring system in Ireland.

It's unfortunate that there is no credit scoring system here, but I still wouldn't be providing bank statements as I suspect a lot of people wouldn't. Nowhere in Dublin that I viewed in the past month before I found my new place asked for them. For people to start offering up that information, the system would need to go through some huge changes, the banking system also. The thought of showing my bank statements to an amateur landlord (of which there are many), makes me shudder.

What if the person who shows you their bank statements isn't your favourite of the bunch and your preferred tenants, based on other information, won't volunteer that information?

murphaph wrote: »

As for someone being a pig...well, so long as they are not damaging the property then it's their lifestyle choice to be untidy. So long as they pay the rent and tidy up before they leave, most LLs won't care.

Actually, someone being filthy can cause a lot of damage to a place! Dirt can build up to the stage that it is difficult to get off ie. if a bath hasn't been cleaned for years. And believe me, I viewed rentals where this has clearly been the case.

There is far amount of risk involved in renting out property, that's why it's the last thing I would ever invest in.