Anglo Trial - Read Mod Warning in First post

rwg

First the KPMG girl and now Seannie... no justice at all in this country

Stavros Murphy

The Ultimate Warrior wrote: »

WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT COUTROOM WAS ALREADY WRITTEN; SEAN FITZPATRICK - for the walls of justice are built on fear WHERE GREATER MEN HAVE FALLEN FOR LESSER CRIMES - which has contributed to your false sense of security and invincibility but let it be known what goes around; COMES AROUND and should the warrior seek you out and you feel the strong arm of the ULTIMATE WARRIOR then the repercussions will resound -- within your family walls not just for those generations to come but that they shall be felt FOREVERRRRRRRRRRRR.................

I read that in the ultimate warriors voice. He has a silly voice.

Stavros Murphy

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

The prosecution is this case was a shambles. A sad day for the legal system and the stability of the country, one of the pillars of the country has failed to do its job and administer justice in a civilized manner.

Dangerous times as mob mobilization has happened for a lot less.

Lol. In Ireland? Hmm, we don't do "mobs", we're all too busy avoiding MABS.

Adamantium

ShaggyQueen wrote: »

We don't know that though, do we. He could well have broken laws, there's just not enough proof to convict him and he pleaded ignorance. Personally I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have known about loans & deals of that magnitude.

Stop, just STOP.

We can't start convicting people based on what they might have done. In this reality we live in we have no way of travelling back to the past and witnessing events in a third person bubble. We'd every person on the planet in prison block ala 1984, if we started that.

If you were wrongly convicted of a crime, would it right to sentence you because there is not proof to convict you?

You said yourself, it's in the bold.

What people are looking for is not justice or law, it's revenge.

This isn't the Sioux Indians or the Japanese Emperors comitting suicide based on moral, honor deficits. He's definetly failed on those counts, but that's a different argument and court systems all around the world base their judgements on the case/evidence presented.

Moral deficits are gargantuan, sprawling, impossible to define standards, because everybody has a different standard, look at boards, 10 million people shouting, but are they are to sensitive to mob hysteria and would they fall foul of groupthink, that's why the old systems went the way of the dinosaur. That enviornment discourages authentic independent thought.

And we settled with something slightly more scientific, because the mob would try to set the standards like they did in the past and it was uneven, unclear.

Busted Flat.

There was never going to be a guilty verdict in this case or any other trial to take place in the future, in connection with this bank. There were to many powerful politicians and wealthy people that had soft loans. Hopefully people will take this on board at the local elections.

RollieFingers

#justiceforthefitz

Muise...

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

The prosecution is this case was a shambles. A sad day for the legal system and the stability of the country, one of the pillars of the country has failed to do its job and administer justice in a civilized manner.

Dangerous times as mob mobilization has happened for a lot less.

You know what I think of as mob mobilisation (apart from the online mob)?

People scrambling for ridiculous loans, signing contracts that Faust would shy away from, and blowing the economy up in a huge bubble.

I think these times are about as dangerous as warm milk.

RayCon

Christ I fcuking hate this country at times.

RobbingBandit

fedor.2. wrote: »

RIP

Brava, you funny ****er.

I look outside the window of the room I am in; the skies are still blue, people are still walking the streets, cars are driving by as are buses, some time some where this ****er Fitzpatrick will get what is coming to him the justice system in this rats nest of a country won't harm ***** like this guy or Quinn or Bertie etc.

Stavros Murphy

Adamantium wrote: »

Stop, just STOP.

We can't start convicting people based on what they might have done. In this reality we live in we have no way of travelling back to the past and witnessing events in a third person bubble. We'd every person on the planet in prison block ala 1984, if we started that.

If you were wrongly convicted of a crime, would it right to sentence you because there is not proof to convict you?

You said yourself, it's in the bold.

Give over. There's some stuff no amount of sugar would make palatable to swallow. He was found not guilty. There you go.The Court has spoken. Fair enough. I'll give the eulogies of how wrong it would be to cast aspersions on a man more sinned against than sinning a miss.

ShaggyQueen

Adamantium wrote: »

Stop, just STOP.

We can't start convicting people based on what they might have done. In this reality we live in we have no way of travelling back to the past and witnessing events in a third person bubble. We'd every person on the planet in prison block ala 1984, if we started that.

If you were wrongly convicted of a crime, would it right to sentence you because there is not proof to convict you?

You said yourself, it's in the bold.

Candie wrote: »

Well you could have broken laws too, or me or anyone. Should anyone be convicted on what they could have done, or on what they have been proved to have done?

And of course no one should be convicted without enough proof. Why would anyone state that like it's some sort of deception or some exception in this case?

If there isn't enough proof you don't convict, if there is you do. It's quite black and white.

He didn't plead ignorance, he pleaded not guilty. As upheld by the court after considering all the evidence.

Yeah you'll both have to point out where I said he should have been convicted if there wasn't enough evidence. I'm just pointing out to the 'he done nothing wrong' posters that he could well have done wrong, and I believe he did, there's just not enough evidence to convict.

Yeah he pleaded not guilty, but ignorance was basically his defence.

Anyway, wrong charges brought against him in any case

jonnny68

Ireland is one of the most corrupted countries in Western Europe, the golden circle of bankers ride off into the sunset after playing a significant part in the destruction of Ireland while people go to jail for not paying a TV licence or an old age pensioner gets sent down for protesting against American military in Shannon.

ThisRegard

Busted Flat. wrote: »

There was never going to be a guilty verdict in this case or any other trial to take place in the future, in connection with this bank. There were to many powerful politicians and wealthy people that had soft loans. Hopefully people will take this on board at the local elections.

None of whom I imagine were on the jury, so is completely irrelevant.

Phoebas

Busted Flat. wrote: »

There was never going to be a guilty verdict in this case or any other trial to take place in the future, in connection with this bank. There were to many powerful politicians and wealthy people that had soft loans. Hopefully people will take this on board at the local elections.

The kind of people who think that they can remedy this by the way they cast their vote in the local elections probably don't bother to vote in elections.

Kermit.de.frog

jonnny68 wrote: »

Ireland is one of the most corrupted countries in Western Europe, the golden circle of bankers ride off into the sunset after playing a significant part in the destruction of Ireland while people go to jail for not paying a TV licence or an old age pensioner gets sent down for protesting against American military in Shannon.

I hate to disappoint you but this was a randomly chosen jury of 12 which in all likelyhood represented most, if not all, of Ireland's class divide.

Sean Fitzpatrick is innocent of these charges. This was proved and is therefore fact. Hence he was acquitted.

MRnotlob606

Busted Flat.

Why was the case taken in the first place, when the regulator and senior financial advisor's new in advance of the loan deal. What sort of legal muppetts decided to bring this to trail going by what was known about the states involvement in the decision to approve these loans. How much did this farcical case cost the state on top of the liquidation of the bank.

Busted Flat.

ThisRegard wrote: »

None of whom I imagine were on the jury, so is completely irrelevant.

The case was so weak as to fail, nothing to do with the jury.

jonnny68

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I hate to disappoint you but this was a randomly chosen jury of 12 which in all likelyhood represented most, if not all, of Ireland's class divide.

Sean Fitzpatrick is innocent of these charges. This was proved and is therefore fact. Hence he was acquitted.

Ah one of his lackeys , or just plain stupid and gullible.

sopretty

Well begorrah. It would be a great little country if you could just sink the f*ck*n thing. :mad:

mad muffin

I didn't even bat an eye lid when this came up on my news feed. No one is ever going to pay for what happened except us plebs. And pay we do.

This is the story of Ireland. The elite lord over us peasants. It's always the way in Ireland from the beginning of time. same name, different lord.

tayto lover

Seanie is probably booked into the K-Club for golf with Cowan and Kenny next Saturday.

Kermit.de.frog

jonnny68 wrote: »

Ah one of his lackeys , or just plain stupid and gullible.

I'm stating fact. He was found innocent.

That might not be true of the other two. We will see tomorrow or next day. But Fitzpatrick is innocent of these charges and it does not really matter how incompatible that is for randomers who automatically hate him for reasons they themselves can't even explain.

BTW I hope everyone knows he will be back in court very soon on other charges arguably more serious so he is not free to go yet.

andrewdeerpark

Busted Flat. wrote: »

The case was so weak as to fail, nothing to do with the jury.

You have it in one. A show trial designed to fail from the outset..

andrewdeerpark

In case we all forgot this poor man got 6 years for importing garlic and labeling it as apples, doing the tax man out of a projected 1.6million. Anglo Irish has cost the country over 25 Billion as of June last year!

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-jailed-for-six-years-over-16m-garlic-tax-scam-26830346.html

Busted Flat.

tayto lover wrote: »

Seanie is probably booked into the K-Club for golf with Cowan and Kenny next Saturday.

They better bring their own wine, nobody can share Mick's bottle.

Piliger

mad muffin wrote: »

I didn't even bat an eye lid when this came up on my news feed. No one is ever going to pay for what happened except us plebs. And pay we do.

This is the story of Ireland. The elite lord over us peasants. It's always the way in Ireland from the beginning of time. same name, different lord.

What utter nonsense. You can be a self labelled peasant all you like. Leave the rest of us out of your class war fantasy.

Busted Flat.

Piliger wrote: »

What utter nonsense. You can be a self labelled peasant all you like. Leave the rest of us out of your class war fantasy.

Well cushioned pension, Eh.

Amirani

jonnny68 wrote: »

Ireland is one of the most corrupted countries in Western Europe, the golden circle of bankers ride off into the sunset after playing a significant part in the destruction of Ireland while people go to jail for not paying a TV licence or an old age pensioner gets sent down for protesting against American military in Shannon.

You're wrong: http://www.irishtimes.com/business/ireland-ranks-21-out-of-177-countries-on-corruption-index-1.1615524

Rezident

Hasn't this always been the way in Ireland - it is absolutely fine to act immorally and unethically as long as you don't break The Law (or have a good lawyer). And I was honestly thinking about starting to pay for a TV licence recently, clearly there's no need, sure it's Ireland.

Amirani

Rezident wrote: »

Hasn't this always been the way in Ireland - it is absolutely fine to act immorally and unethically as long as you don't break The Law (or have a good lawyer).

Is it different in other countries?

jonnny68

Diego Simeone wrote: »

You're wrong: http://www.irishtimes.com/business/ireland-ranks-21-out-of-177-countries-on-corruption-index-1.1615524

Ah yeah because an article in the Irish Times says it we'll take it as being gospel this country is rife with corruption, from Politicians, Bankers, Garda, Property developers etc etc etc the long list goes on and on, truly sickening they'd be sent to jail in other countries but here they get to ride off into the sunset.

catallus

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm stating fact. He was found innocent.

That might not be true of the other two. We will see tomorrow or next day. But Fitzpatrick is innocent of these charges and it does not really matter how incompatible that is for randomers who automatically hate him for reasons they themselves can't even explain.

BTW I hope everyone knows he will be back in court very soon on other charges arguably more serious so he is not free to go yet.

This is an odious way to think. It may not matter to the courts but it certainly matters to those of us who think that justice matters.

It has been shown time and again that the corrupt and the unscrupulous, be they bankers, or burglars or just plain unadorned thugs who take joy in violence are treated way too leniently by our system.

To say "it does not really matter" is to treat the public person with contempt.

Phoebas

jonnny68 wrote: »

Ah yeah because an article in the Irish Times says it we'll take it as being gospel this country is rife with corruption, from Politicians, Bankers, Garda, Property developers etc etc etc the long list goes on and on, truly sickening they'd be sent to jail in other countries but here they get to ride off into the sunset.

You didn't even bother to read it, did you?

Amirani

jonnny68 wrote: »

Ah yeah because an article in the Irish Times says it we'll take it as being gospel this country is rife with corruption, from Politicians, Bankers, Garda, Property developers etc etc etc the long list goes on and on, truly sickening they'd be sent to jail in other countries but here they get to ride off into the sunset.

Irish Times are reporting an international study, not doing their own study. Surely you realise the difference?

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2013/

Muise...

catallus wrote: »

This is an odious way to think. It may not matter to the courts but it certainly matters to those of us who think that justice matters.

It has been shown time and again that the corrupt and the unscrupulous, be they bankers, or burglars or just plain unadorned thugs who take joy in violence are treated way too leniently by our system.

To say "it does not really matter" is to treat the public person with contempt.

Who is the "public person" when he's at home?

The fella who reads the news and has an opinion?

blackplum123

Threats from the tax man over 100/200 euro property tax all over the air waves. Water taxes on the way .The ordinary working person is being ridden by this government . Protecting their buddies and f.ck everyone else.....

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

blackplum123 wrote: »

Threats from the tax man over 100/200 euro property tax all over the air waves. Water taxes on the way .The ordinary working person is being ridden by this government . Protecting their buddies and f.ck everyone else.....

You realise the current Government had nothing to do with this court case?

Do you want Enda Kenny to intervene and overturn the verdict or something?

hju6

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Property taxes don't prohibit you from owning property.

How so? a recurring yearly tax on a house prohibits outright ownership,

Busted Flat.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

You realise the current Government had nothing to do with this court case?

Do you want Enda Kenny to intervene and overturn the verdict or something?

Could you provide a link to who was responsible for this shambles, who was the AG when they were charged.

Muise...

hju6 wrote: »

How so? a recurring yearly tax on a house prohibits outright ownership,

Like a recurring yearly tax on wages prohibits outright earning?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Could you provide a link to who was responsible for this shambles, who was the AG when they were charged.

In what way was the court case a shambles? Please explain

I presume the AG was the same woman that is currently in the position, not sure when she was appointed.

jonnny68

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Irish Times are reporting an international study, not doing their own study. Surely you realise the difference?

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2013/

Do you REALLY and truly believe everything you read are you that gullible as to think that this country is not rife with corruption.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

jonnny68 wrote: »

Do you REALLY and truly believe everything you read are you that gullible as to think that this country is not rife with corruption.

They look a pretty objective, reputable source. Seems to me like you're just choosing to say it's not true to suit your hysterical view on Ireland

Busted Flat.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

In what way was the court case a shambles? Please explain

I presume the AG was the same woman that is currently in the position, not sure when she was appointed.

Just to enlighten you, they took a prosecution against three people knowing the state had approved of their actions. Is that clear.

Stuxnet

Berlusconi had the right idea, hookers and cocaine parties, went out in style.

jonnny68

Phoebas wrote: »

You didn't even bother to read it, did you?

Eh yes I did and I believe Ireland is much worse than this '' study '' suggests.

VinLieger

jonnny68 wrote: »

Do you REALLY and truly believe everything you read are you that gullible as to think that this country is not rife with corruption.

There is definitely corruption but the statement you made about us being one of the most corrupt in Europe is just plain incorrect

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Just to enlighten you, they took a prosecution against three people knowing the state had approved of their actions. Is that clear.

To enlighten you, this government weren't in power during these actions

scamtown

blackplum123 wrote: »

Threats from the tax man over 100/200 euro property tax all over the air waves. Water taxes on the way .The ordinary working person is being ridden by this government . Protecting their buddies and f.ck everyone else.....

two choices
1 a peoples army is formed to overthrow the government Ukraine style
2 we go back to the barstool and say ' sure it will be grand':rolleyes: