Anglo Trial - Read Mod Warning in First post

Kermit.de.frog

catallus wrote: »

It has been shown time and again that the corrupt and the unscrupulous

Fine you say this but what do you charge him with? What are you saying he has specifically done wrong?

There is an element of mob mentality here and most can not even articulate what they think he is suppose to have done.

I think my comment is a fair and accurate one.

Amirani

jonnny68 wrote: »

Do you REALLY and truly believe everything you read are you that gullible as to think that this country is not rife with corruption.

You're making claims that Ireland is one of the most corrupt countries in Western Europe. I think Transparency International is in a far better position to judge this than either of us. How much do you know of the corruption levels in other countries in Western Europe? Probably feck all considering how closed-minded you've shown yourself to be in interpreting a newspaper article.

What do Transparency International have to gain by misrepresenting Ireland's level of corruption? I'd trust their findings far more than your anecdotal rubbish.

Guy:Incognito

corkonion wrote: »

This is a great result, it sends out a strong clear message that only the underclasses need fear justice in Ireland, don't forget to pay your water charges.

Should the courts just go with the verdict the mob wants in all cases or is the verdict only wrong in this one?

This seems to be the case a lot of the time on boards , if its the verdict everyone wants - justice done, otherwise the court is a farce and the justice system broken.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

jonnny68 wrote: »

Eh yes I did and I believe Ireland is much worse than this '' study '' suggests.

why? I think a study dedicated to it would know a lot more than you

blackplum123

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

You realise the current Government had nothing to do with this court case?

Do you want Enda Kenny to intervene and overturn the verdict or something?

the government can bring in legislation to screw the ordinary punter at a whim, threats of legislation changes .But they do nothing to maple 10 and co . Why isn't the regulator being brought to account for his inactions.
How many millions did this trial cost , why was it brought if there was no prospect of a conviction . answer , to give the illusion that justice would be got for the "people"
Bull**** Ireland.....

RollieFingers

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

They look a pretty objective, reputable source. Seems to me like you're just choosing to say it's not true to suit your hysterical view on Ireland

As you chose to tell me earlier that what I was saying wasn't true to suit your hysterical view

Amirani

jonnny68 wrote: »

Eh yes I did and I believe Ireland is much worse than this '' study '' suggests.

You "believe". Any evidence or are you just going to continue to rely on your anecdotal garbage?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

RollieFingers wrote: »

As you chose to tell me earlier that what I was saying wasn't true to suit your hysterical view

I don't even know what you're referring to. If you think we're one of the most corrupt countries in the world that's fair enough, you're entitled to your misguided delusion

RollieFingers

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I don't even know what you're referring to

You said it wasn't true when I said people walked out of a restaurant he chose to dine in!

Guy:Incognito

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

why? I think a study dedicated to it would know a lot more than you

If it said we were the most corrupt country in Europe it would be held up as gospel. Again, its only right if it gives the verdict people want.

Suppose they could pander to the masses and ignore facts, but sure that would be corrupt..............

jonnny68

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

They look a pretty objective, reputable source. Seems to me like you're just choosing to say it's not true to suit your hysterical view on Ireland

Hysterical view really I could spend half the night here documenting scandal, corruption, etc etc etc not a '' hysterical view '' of whatever stupid words you want to use.

Are you a voter of FF/FG or Labour by any chance :-\

NewApproach

A pleasing verdict.

Amirani

jonnny68 wrote: »

Hysterical view really I could spend half the night here documenting scandal, corruption, etc etc etc not a '' hysterical view '' of whatever stupid words you want to use.

If you could document for us just the evidence that the jury didn't receive or didn't consider it would be great.

Jester252

Just remember he was declared not guilty by a jury full of random people, but it's good to see people here have declared him guilty without access to the evidence and are stuck in their resolve to force their verdict upon others

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

RollieFingers wrote: »

You said it wasn't true when I said people walked out of a restaurant he chose to dine in!

You think that view is "hysterical"? Questioning the views of some random anonymous poster on the internet isn't the same as questioning the objectivity of a study into worldwide corruption

For the record I still think it's horse**** that "the whole restaurant left" when Fitzpatrick walked in but i can never prove it nor can you prove it

Kermit.de.frog

Am I the only one who thinks a large part of the population wants to think there was this illuminati style conspiracy and criminality against them by a wealthy and devious few just so they can distract from the responsibility the entire country should take as a whole for the mess we are in?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

jonnny68 wrote: »

Hysterical view really I could spend half the night here documenting scandal, corruption, etc etc etc not a '' hysterical view '' of whatever stupid words you want to use.

Are you a voter of FF/FG or Labour by any chance :-\

"Hysterical" is a stupid word?

awec

scamtown wrote: »

two choices
1 a peoples army is formed to overthrow the government Ukraine style
2 we go back to the barstool and say ' sure it will be grand':rolleyes:

Yea, Ukraine is definitely a place we should model ourselves on. All going great over there right now. :rolleyes:

Jester252

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks a large part of the population wants to think there was this illuminati style conspiracy and criminality against them by a wealthy and devious few just so they can distract from the responsibility the entire country should take as a whole for the mess we are in?

No you not, if you believe some posters here people where forced at gun point to double mortgage their home for a new car and holiday/rental home.

Wacker The Attacker

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks a large part of the population wants to think there was this illuminati style conspiracy and criminality against them by a wealthy and devious few just so they can distract from the responsibility the entire country should take as a whole for the mess we are in?

Possibly. The reasons for that could be anything

Muise...

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks a large part of the population wants to think there was this illuminati style conspiracy and criminality against them by a wealthy and devious few just so they can distract from the responsibility the entire country should take as a whole for the mess we are in?

No. I think that too. It's been nothing but finger-pointing blame for four years. An Olympiad of blame. We need a Mammy with a wooden spoon, who will say "I don't care who started it, you're cleaning up that mess or you're not getting any tea!"

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Jester252 wrote: »

No you not, if you believe some posters here people where forced at gun point to double mortgage their home for a new car and holiday/rental home.

Or that Sean Fitzpatrick singlehandedly caused the downturn in the Irish economy

hatrickpatrick

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Or that Sean Fitzpatrick singlehandedly caused the downturn in the Irish economy

He didn't, but it could be arged that Anglo single handedly forced us into the bailout.

Stavros Murphy

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Possibly. The reasons for that could be anything

Too much of Miss Piggys chops to the head?

jonnny68

Diego Simeone wrote: »

If you could document for us just the evidence that the jury didn't receive or didn't consider it would be great.

You are obviously firmly in the Seanie camp, a lackey, hanger on, wannabe or just plain deluded and gullible, you actually seriously believe this man is completely and utterly innocent because he was found not guilty in court I suppose you'd be one of these types who thinks the Garda are squeaky clean and Jobridge has created thousands of jobs for interns and the country is positively thriving.

RollieFingers

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

You think that view is "hysterical"? Questioning the views of some random anonymous poster on the internet isn't the same as questioning the objectivity of a study into worldwide corruption

For the record I still think it's horse**** that "the whole restaurant left" when Fitzpatrick walked in but i can never prove it nor can you prove it

If you can't prove it why did you say "it's def not true"? Not sure how any rational minded person could come to such a definitive conclusion without proof!

Anyways take a chill pill Big Ugo, no need to curse, your boy Seanie is free sure!

Jumboman

Jester252 wrote: »

Just remember he was declared not guilty by a jury full of random people, but it's good to see people here have declared him guilty without access to the evidence and are stuck in their resolve to force their verdict upon others

Its not random people. The defence team gets to pick who they want on the jury. They must of picked alot upper middle class D4 type people because if the people on jury had of been from finglas/tallaght or just about anywhere else in the country he would not have walked free.

Jester252

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Or that Sean Fitzpatrick singlehandedly caused the downturn in the Irish economy

Well did did spend all the money on a faulty weather machine that has been given us back winter for the last couple of years.

Amirani

jonnny68 wrote: »

You are obviously firmly in the Seanie camp, a lackey, hanger on, wannabe or just plain deluded and gullible, you actually seriously believe this man is completely and utterly innocent because he was found not guilty in court I suppose you'd be one of these types who thinks the Garda are squeaky clean and Jobridge has created thousands of jobs for interns and the country is positively thriving.

Nope, all incorrect assumptions.

The only thing I'm looking for is some evidence of criminality. That'd be great thanks.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

RollieFingers wrote: »

If you can't prove it why did you say "it's def not true"? Not sure how any rational minded person could come to such a definitive conclusion without proof!

Anyways take a chill pill Big Ugo, no need to curse, your boy Seanie is free sure!

How utterly childish

Amirani

Jumboman wrote: »

Its not random people. The defence team gets to pick who they want on the jury. They must of picked alot upper middle class D4 type people because if the people on jury had of been from finglas/tallaght or just about anywhere else in the country he would not have walked free.

The defence team doesn't choose the jury. Are you deluded?

Phoebas

Jumboman wrote: »

Its not random people. The defence team gets to pick who they want on the jury. They must of picked alot upper middle class D4 type people because if the people on jury had of been from finglas/tallaght or just about anywhere else in the country he would not have walked free.

The defence team don't get to pick who they want. They get to challenge some potential jurors, as do the prosecution.
How do you know where the members of the jury were from?

Jumboman

RollieFingers wrote: »

If you can't prove it why did you say "it's def not true"? Not sure how any rational minded person could come to such a definitive conclusion without proof!

Anyways take a chill pill Big Ugo, no need to curse, your boy Seanie is free sure!

He may not be guilty of those partial charges but he is still part of a criminal enterprise that bought down the country.

hatrickpatrick

IMO everyone is focusing on the wrong thing here. He was found guilty because the law is inadequate - a lot of unethical behaviour which SHOULD be illegal is not.

This is a problem which needs to be dealt with using new, comprehensive legislation to make general shenanigans punishable by law. Until that happens, acquittals like these will continue to happen.

Seanie admitted himself to the loan transfer scheme when the story first broke - that in and of itself should have been illegal.

Jester252

Jumboman wrote: »

Its not random people. The defence team gets to pick who they want on the jury. They must of picked alot upper middle class D4 type people because if the people on jury had of been from finglas/tallaght or just about anywhere else in the country he would not have walked free.

The prosecution also gets to pick people on it too you know, your excusse hold as much water as a sieve.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Jumboman wrote: »

Its not random people. The defence team gets to pick who they want on the jury. They must of picked alot upper middle class D4 type people because if the people on jury had of been from finglas/tallaght or just about anywhere else in the country he would not have walked free.

Obviously never been in a court have you?\

jury is picked from a pool of around 200. Then the defense and prosecution can choose a certain amount (3 or 4, not sure on the number) of jurors to dismiss without any reason.

Jury selection is totally fiar

Spring Onion

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

"Hysterical" is a stupid word?

You need to calm down Mr Spacecraft, you're making a scene and you might have a heart attack. I worry.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Jumboman wrote: »

Its not random people. The defence team gets to pick who they want on the jury. They must of picked alot upper middle class D4 type people because if the people on jury had of been from finglas/tallaght or just about anywhere else in the country he would not have walked free.

Complete and utter nonsense.

Obviously never been in a court have you?\

jury is picked from a pool of around 200. Then the defense and prosecution can choose a certain amount (3 or 4, not sure on the number) of jurors to dismiss without any reason.

RollieFingers

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

How utterly childish

And how utterly convenient for you to ignore any questions you don't have a smart answer for

hatrickpatrick

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Nope, all incorrect assumptions.

The only thing I'm looking for is some evidence of criminality. That'd be great thanks.

Would you agree that if the loan transfer scheme wasnt illegal, it should have been?

Jumboman

Diego Simeone wrote: »

The defence team doesn't choose the jury. Are you deluded?

They can stop people they dont like getting on the jury. I'm not making this sh1t up.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

RollieFingers wrote: »

And how utterly convenient for you to ignore any questions you don't have a smart answer for

what question did you ask? Was I wrong to say that your anecdote "def didn't happen. Yep, of course I can't say it def didn't happen. But I don't believe you. It doesn't sound plausible

Adamantium

jonnny68 wrote: »

You are obviously firmly in the Seanie camp, a lackey, hanger on, wannabe or just plain deluded and gullible, you actually seriously believe this man is completely and utterly innocent because he was found not guilty in court I suppose you'd be one of these types who thinks the Garda are squeaky clean and Jobridge has created thousands of jobs for interns and the country is positively thriving.

The poster never said any of those things, all they said was:

"Under the current framework, the evidence does not support the charges"

Of course you've now shot yourself in the foot by assuming that any opinion besides your own could be only on the other extreme end of your own.
Of course it's impossible to have a considered view or be in the centre

What happened to nuance and intellectual honesty?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Jumboman wrote: »

They can stop people they dont like getting on the jury. I'm not making this sh1t up.

so can the prosecution. It's a system that takes place in most western countries.

RollieFingers

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

what question did you ask? Was I wrong to say that your anecdote "def didn't happen. Yep, of course I can't say it def didn't happen. But I don't believe you. It doesn't sound plausible

Why say it then?

Jester252

Jumboman wrote: »

They can stop people they dont like getting on the jury. I'm not making this sh1t up.

So can the prosecution. The jury wasn't hand selected by the defence. Try to fill up the holes in your conspiracy theory.

Amirani

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Would you agree that if the loan transfer scheme wasnt illegal, it should have been?

Yes, absolutely. As I said previously, Fitzpatrick's actions were unethical at the very least. However, we have to accept that no criminal action has been proven and that the judgement today was a fair one.

Jumboman

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Obviously never been in a court have you?\

jury is picked from a pool of around 200. Then the defense and prosecution can choose a certain amount (3 or 4, not sure on the number) of jurors to dismiss without any reason.

Jury selection is totally fiar

Picking and choosing who you want on the jury doesnt sound fair to me.

thebaz

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Or that Sean Fitzpatrick singlehandedly caused the downturn in the Irish economy

sure he's a grand fellow - I'm sure people here think Fingers Fingeton is a grand fellow too, and Bertie and Brian Cowen - Fianna Fail I think are now topping the polls - what short term memories we have

Amirani

Jumboman wrote: »

They can stop people they dont like getting on the jury. I'm not making this sh1t up.

That's very different to what you said initially.