Will you wear an Easter Lily ?

delthedriver

Its associations with IRA / Sinn Fein would preclude me from wearing an Easter Lilly.


Perhaps I will wear my Munster Shirt instead

Notorious97

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I understand your position but you stated in your original post you don't understand why any Irish person could criticise you for wearing a lily. Well now you do.

Well what i meant by criticise is someone just going off on one at me over me remembering people who founded the state i live in, theres a difference in my mind about someone reacting like that to me and someone who disagrees with it and engaging in a discussion in it as you just did.

I wouldn't feel the need to hound someone to wear it or quiz them on it, as i said its a matter of personal preference. None of my family or friends wear it, i respect that they choose not to and i will discuss with someone if they wish to, just when they are purely looking to argue and its not constructive then thats what i don't understand

In saying that though, there are both level headed people and non level headed people on both sides of the debate, just a fact of life i guess

Ghost Buster

I'd wear Evangeline Lilly

shamrock55

I dont understand why in this country we all cant come together on one day a year to remember those who made the ultimate sacrifice for their country and be proud of it, we really are a strange little country

Iwasfrozen

shamrock55 wrote: »

I dont understand why in this country we all cant come together on one day a year to remember those who made the ultimate sacrifice for their country and be proud of it, we really are a strange little country

Because the people the lily celebrates are not people who should be celebrated.

Sound of Silence

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Most people hold the lily in little regard because it also represents the pIRA and other republican terrorist organisations. Even the original IRA of the war of independence who you celebrate were not above killing civilians who got in the way. In my home town two people were killed in cross fire during an IRA ambush on an RIC patrol.

It's for that reason and others I would never wear an Easter lily.

Out of sheer interest, and the fact that it's not hard to draw comparisons here, I would have to ask what your opinion on the Poppy would be.

You seem to have a hard and fast rule when it comes to civilian casualties, and WWI certainly wasn't short of human distress, so would you say that this would similarly influence your opinion. I'm just trying to grasp the kind of thought process that all these badge-wearing people go through when they choose what to pin on their lapels.

Iwasfrozen

Sound of Silence wrote: »

Out of sheer interest, and the fact that it's not hard to draw comparisons here, I would have to ask what your opinion on the Poppy would be.

You seem to have a hard and fast rule when it comes to civilian casualties, and WWI certainly wasn't short of human distress, so would you say that this would similarly influence your opinion. I'm just trying to grasp the kind of thought process that all these badge-wearing people go through when they choose what to pin on their lapels.

I don't wear a poppy either

Sound of Silence

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I don't wear a poppy either

For similar reasons?

Or like most people here, you just couldn't be bothered purchasing either.

Nodin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Because the people the lily celebrates are not people who should be celebrated.

..says the man who once commented

"On the other hand I would call the signing of the ulster covenant courageous. Here we have a group of people standing up for their right of self determination and refusing to be herded off to Dublin administration by the British, their supposed country men."

Dear o dear o dear.

strobe

I do believe that this year I shall wear an Easter poppy.

Iwasfrozen

Nodin wrote: »

..says the man who once commented

"On the other hand I would call the signing of the ulster covenant courageous. Here we have a group of people standing up for their right of self determination and refusing to be herded off to Dublin administration by the British, their supposed country men."

Dear o dear o dear.

Yes, I did. What's your point?

Angry_Mammarys

Yes definitely.

Nodin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes, I did. What's your point?

Double standard, rank hypocrisy. Possible closet unionism.....

Iwasfrozen

Nodin wrote: »

Double standard, rank hypocrisy. Possible closet unionism.....

I don't see any hypocrisy, care to explain? The signing of the covenant did not kill anyone.

It's easy to take quotes out of context and fit them to an agenda, but when put under scrutiny the illusion is harder to maintain.

Nodin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I don't see any hypocrisy, care to explain? The signing of the covenant did not kill anyone.

It's easy to take quotes out of context and fit them to an agenda, but when put under scrutiny the illusion is harder to maintain.

The Ulster Covenant

"The Ulster Covenant, also known as Ulster's Solemn League and Covenant, was signed by just under half a million men and women from Ulster, on and before 28 September 1912, in protest against the Third Home Rule Bill, introduced by the British Government in that same year. Sir Edward Carson was the first person to sign the Covenant at the Belfast City Hall with a silver pen,[1] followed by Lord Londonderry, representatives of the Protestant Churches, and then by Sir James Craig. The signatories, 471,414 in all,[2] were all against the establishment of a Home Rule parliament in Dublin. The Ulster Covenant is immortalised in Rudyard Kipling's poem "Ulster 1912".
The Covenant had two basic parts: The Covenant itself, which was signed by men, and the Declaration, which was signed by women. In total, the Covenant was signed by 237,368 men; the Declaration, by 234,046 women.
In January 1913, the Ulster Volunteers aimed to recruit 100,000 men aged from 17 to 65 who had signed the Covenant, as a unionist militia."

Why would the UVF think that they could recruit these people?

"BEING CONVINCED in our consciences that Home Rule would be disastrous to the material well-being of Ulster as well as of the whole of Ireland, subversive of our civil and religious freedom, destructive of our citizenship, and perilous to the unity of the Empire, we, whose names are underwritten, men of Ulster, loyal subjects of His Gracious Majesty King George V., humbly relying on the God whom our fathers in days of stress and trial confidently trusted, do hereby pledge ourselves in solemn Covenant, throughout this our time of threatened calamity, to stand by one another in defending, for ourselves and our children, our cherished position of equal citizenship in the United Kingdom, and in using all means which may be found necessary to defeat the present conspiracy to set up a Home Rule Parliament in Ireland. And in the event of such a Parliament being forced upon us, we further solemnly and mutually pledge ourselves to refuse to recognise its authority. In sure confidence that God will defend the right, we hereto subscribe our names.
And further, we individually declare that we have not already signed this Covenant."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Covenant

But the men of 1916? Violent!!!! Blood Crazed!!!11 Meglomaniacs!!!!!!!!

.jacksparrow.

It's amazing, any other country in the world is invaded and people understand their right to defend themselves and fight back, but in Ireland most people just see the men and women of the rising as evil murderers attacking the British soldiers stationed in Dublin etc unjustifiably, and without reason.

Probably explains why we bend over so easy in most areas with the government these days.

Jester252

I'm not and I'm telling everyone online so they will see that I am a cool guy.

Banjoxed

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

It's amazing, any other country in the world is invaded and people understand their right to defend themselves and fight back, but in Ireland most people just see the men and women of the rising as evil murderers attacking the British soldiers stationed in Dublin etc unjustifiably, and without reason.

Probably explains why we bend over so easy in most areas with the government these days.

I never supported Bloody Friday, La Mon, Enniskillen or arbitrary executions so am not going to start retrospectively excusing them now. The bit in the Easter Proclamation about not disfiguring the cause of the Republic by violence or rapine was ignored down through the years. "Thirteen dead and not forgotten", yes, I'd agree with that. It's the "We got eighteen and Mountbatten" bit that has been swept under the carpet.

.jacksparrow.

Banjoxed wrote: »

I never supported Bloody Friday, La Mon, Enniskillen or arbitrary executions so am not going to start retrospectively excusing them now. The bit in the Easter Proclamation about not disfiguring the cause of the Republic by violence or rapine was ignored down through the years. "Thirteen dead and not forgotten", yes, I'd agree with that. It's the "We got eighteen and Mountbatten" bit that has been swept under the carpet.

I'm talking about the rising and peoples attitudes in the south.

comongethappy

Is it not a de-facto IRA emblem?

sillyoulfool

comongethappy wrote: »

Is it not a de-facto IRA emblem?

Yes it is, which is why I wont be wearing it, further I see nothing valiant, patriotic, or worth celebrating about the unpopular and disorganized "rising" of 1916, and certainly nothing worth celebrating.

comongethappy

sillyoulfool wrote: »

Yes it is, which is why I wont be wearing it, further I see nothing valiant, patriotic, or worth celebrating about the unpopular and disorganized "rising" of 1916, and certainly nothing worth celebrating.

That's the thing.

I wasn't born here, so don't see it passionately as others might.

From history class, the rising looked a shambles organised by a romanticised group with communist leanings (being generous).
With poor execution & little public support.

Add to that the IRA campaigns in later decades, I can see why the bulk vote 'No'.

The Backwards Man

No.

I don't go around singing 'ooo aaaah up the 'ra' when I'm pissed.

Jester252

sillyoulfool wrote: »

Yes it is, which is why I wont be wearing it, further I see nothing valiant, patriotic, or worth celebrating about the unpopular and disorganized "rising" of 1916, and certainly nothing worth celebrating.

You're going to hate being here in two years time.

Iwasfrozen

Jester252 wrote: »

You're going to hate being here in two years time.

I don't know what you're expecting to happen in two years time.

Nodin wrote: »

The Ulster Covenant

*various quotes*

But the men of 1916? Violent!!!! Blood Crazed!!!11 Meglomaniacs!!!!!!!!

How many civilians died at the signing of the Ulster covenant compared to the Easter Rising?

whisky_galore

Not this year, last year or any other year.

Jester252

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I don't know what you're expecting to happen in two years time.

100 anniversary of the 1916 rising? The event that the royal family was invited do that annoyed a bunch of people in another AH thread

padd b1975

Can you get them with a built in water pistol?

frostyjacks

We needn't feel ashamed or uncomfortable about our violent and bloody past. Other countries celebrate their rebellions against foreign oppressors, here it's become the elephant in the room.

The men and women of 1916 took a stand, few against many. Revisionists be damned.

jimgoose

I'd wear the flange off Lily Aldridge. :cool:

Tommy Dillon

Can someone explain to me why we as Irish people arent proud of our history? Why is it a bad thing to celebrate our freedom? The about of people in here that don't seem to be thankful for what these heros did for us is remarkable

comongethappy

Tommy Dillon wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why we as Irish people arent proud of our history? Why is it a bad thing to celebrate our freedom? The about of people in here that don't seem to be thankful for what these heros did for us is remarkable

I think its hard to pin down specifically.

Irish independence from the UK was not something that had total buy-in from the populace at the time

Subsequent to independence there was a brief but damaging civil war.

Irish governments at first were very poor, isolationist & keen for a catholic theocracy to the detriment of what a republic should be & civil liberties.

But I think overall, it wasn't a glorious revolution against tyrany.
It was the realisation of an inevitable outcome.

MRnotlob606

if the money goes towars sinn fein then no

DwightSchrute1

Tommy Dillon wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why we as Irish people arent proud of our history? Why is it a bad thing to celebrate our freedom? The about of people in here that don't seem to be thankful for what these heros did for us is remarkable

I think it is because the Easter Lily has been adopted as a symbol by organisations and people who try to justify the killing of innocent civilians in order to obtain a united Ireland. The majority of people on this island despise such groups and would not wear anything that might associate with them.

MonstaMash

Me & the other members of the motorcycle club I'm part of, proudly wear an easter lily on our cuts 24-7-365

There is nothing wrong in commemorating our patriot dead in the same way there is nothing wrong with a British person wearing a poppy to commemorate their war dead IMHO...lest we forget :eek:

Tommy Dillon

DwightSchrute1 wrote: »

I think it is because the Easter Lily has been adopted as a symbol by organisations and people who try to justify the killing of innocent civilians in order to obtain a united Ireland. The majority of people on this island despise such groups and would not wear anything that might associate with them.

But surely innocent people die in all wars. Why do we have an attitude about it? Other countries have had far worse civilain casualties than here and still very proud

petes

I'm going to get a load of them and re enact the scene from American Beauty.

Iwasfrozen

Tommy Dillon wrote: »

But surely innocent people die in all wars. Why do we have an attitude about it? Other countries have had far worse civilain casualties than here and still very proud

Simply put other countries are wrong to down play civilian losses of life.

DwightSchrute1

Tommy Dillon wrote: »

But surely innocent people die in all wars. Why do we have an attitude about it? Other countries have had far worse civilain casualties than here and still very proud

That's ok so, I am sure the families of the Omagh bombing victims will be glad to know that innocent people die in all wars.

Barely There

The Easter Lilly?
Nothing but a propaganda stunt for the political mouthpieces of murderers and scumbags.

I rather smear myself in dog**** than wear one.

Tommy Dillon

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Simply put other countries are wrong to down play civilian losses of life.

Says who? You? I think this country has a serious chip on its shoulder regarding the past. They think they shouldnt celebrate the past as if we were nazis or did horrible things. Its like we did something to be ashamed of. When in fact we stood up and fought against an foreign occupier and won.... I for one think it was an amazing achievement and wish people these days took the same pride in their country instead of always bashing it.

Nodin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

.................


How many civilians died at the signing of the Ulster covenant compared to the Easter Rising?

But civillians did indeed die as a result, just in the slightly longer term, the Island was split, a sectarian statelet founded.....none of which bothers you. Nor does violence per se, as far as I can gather.

Dyr

for some reason i always think this thread title is a song lyric

Nodin

Barely There wrote: »

The Easter Lilly?
Nothing but a propaganda stunt for the political mouthpieces of murderers and scumbags.

I rather smear myself in dog**** than wear one.

I've no doubt.

Feisar

Banjoxed wrote: »

I never supported Bloody Friday, La Mon, Enniskillen or arbitrary executions so am not going to start retrospectively excusing them now. The bit in the Easter Proclamation about not disfiguring the cause of the Republic by violence or rapine was ignored down through the years. "Thirteen dead and not forgotten", yes, I'd agree with that. It's the "We got eighteen and Mountbatten" bit that has been swept under the carpet.

And the boy that was on the boat at the time.

Feisar

Tommy Dillon wrote: »

Says who? You? I think this country has a serious chip on its shoulder regarding the past. They think they shouldnt celebrate the past as if we were nazis or did horrible things. Its like we did something to be ashamed of. When in fact we stood up and fought against an foreign occupier and won.... I for one think it was an amazing achievement and wish people these days took the same pride in their country instead of always bashing it.

Win is a bit of a strong word in fairness. Became too annoying for them to put up with would be more accurate.

Tommy Dillon

Feisar wrote: »

Win is a bit of a strong word in fairness. Became too annoying for them to put up with would be more accurate.

Your the type of di*k im talking about....the British empire didnt give away countries because they were "too annoying" .

Jawgap

I wear a poppy and a fuschia - because both those organisations helped (and were incredibly generous) towards relatives who were ill.

I have no idea where the money for the lilly goes so I wouldn't touch it with the proverbial barge pole.....

Artful_Badger

How bad is it on a scale of 1-10 that I had no clue what an Easter lily was until I seen this thread ?

Artful_Badger

Tommy Dillon wrote: »

When in fact we stood up and fought against an foreign occupier and won.....

We ? Was that us ? Was that me and you Tommy ?


Sorry couldnt help it :pac: