Will you wear an Easter Lily ?

Scaglietti

wazky wrote: »

Can never understand the guilt attached to the 1916 rising, both America and France for example take great pride in commemorating their revolutions. None of this "oh but granny fanny never got her post when they captured the GPO" nonsense.

Do you reckon the American and French revolutions were without any tragedies and civilian deaths?

A big like, great post.

Nodin

LordSutch wrote: »

They did a(.............)y news).

..appalled by the deaths in a rising against an empire, has no problem with the untold deaths caused in the maintaining of an empire. There's a few of you like that. One guy even denied knowing what I was on about, though hopefully he just didn't want to get into the embarrassing details with a fenian and wasn't genuinely ignorant of it.

Pastor Toastman

Nodin wrote: »

..appalled by the deaths in a rising against an empire

That little sample of deaths just spells out how pathetic the whole thing was, silly playacting when set against the horrors taking place a few hundred miles away: real world-shaping events that made the empire builders think, more than any silly little "rising".

sillyoulfool

Bambi wrote: »

ah yes, RTE commemorating the rising as only they can. Probably get uncle gay to do a eulogy on Captain Bowen-Colthurs after.

Or maybe you just like the truth and prefer to exist within a culture of historical revisionism.!!

sillyoulfool

My name is URL wrote: »

Aye.. at least the Brits and unionists were well above shooting unarmed civilians /s

They were before these useless muppets engaged on their own highly unpopular act of egoism!

sillyoulfool

que pasa wrote: »

Why else would there be a need to jail republicans for the past 90 years?

Because they are treacherous vermin?

Richard

que pasa wrote: »

That's the thing isn't it. This state only exists to support Northern Ireland's existence. Why else would there be a need to jail republicans for the past 90 years?

Because they commit crimes?

Wulfie

Pastor Toastman wrote: »

That little sample of deaths just spells out how pathetic the whole thing was, silly playacting when set against the horrors taking place a few hundred miles away: real world-shaping events that made the empire builders think, more than any silly little "rising".

Which Empire ?

Gurteen_97

sillyoulfool wrote: »

They were before these useless muppets engaged on their own highly unpopular act of egoism!

No matter how you look at it the brits are not above murdering innocent people. It all is traced back to the first plantations, how many massacres did the british commit on native Irish catholics who were armed with no more than pitch forks? After them first invasions it has been a struggle for Ireland not to feel suppressed under foreign rule to this day in relation to the north. If it was not for these first massacres commited by the British we would not have an IRA and British army at war committing atrocities right through the troubles.
Would you not agree that the British first move was an act of egoism? (Your word)
Any person who is a republican today feels a sense of respect in what was done during 1916 and should wear an Easter lily! You dont see Americans and French slandering and giving out about people who died for their country. (Both nations murdered British soldiers) We as Irish people north and south should show more respect to our patriots This includes people who died in the IRA during the troubles and wear an Easter lily!

Nodin

Pastor Toastman wrote: »

That little sample of deaths just spells out how pathetic the whole thing was, silly playacting when set against the horrors taking place a few hundred miles away: real world-shaping events that made the empire builders think, more than any silly little "rising".

...You mean where millions died to 'free small nations' but were in fact fighting for competing empires who had a thing about making sure small nations stayed unfree? Funny enough, I think I know what would win the "silly" competition there

sillyoulfool wrote:

Because they are treacherous vermin? ..

Fighting against the British was treachery? Dear me.

Gurteen_97 wrote:

No matter how you look at it the brits are not above murdering innocent people...

From Asia, to Africa, to the Middle East and the Mediterranean. And for what? Empire. Usually racist, occasionally sectarian, fostering hate to make their sway easy.

Karl Stein

Gurteen_97 wrote: »

Would you not agree....

I don't mean to have a go at you Gurteen but you simply cannot engage people like Sillyoulfool in reasoned debate. Some people have a quasi-religious fundamentalist 'good-and-evil' view of the world and trying to reason with them is as futile as trying to discuss astrophysics with a Labrador.

Richard

Nodin wrote: »

Fighting against the British was treachery? Dear me.

The comment was about the Irish state imprisoning Republicans. The situation from 1916-22 was different.

Nodin

Richard wrote: »

The comment was about the Irish state imprisoning Republicans. The situation from 1916-22 was different.

...given the post history of the person I was quoting, I wouldn't assume that, myself.

Iwasfrozen

Karl Stein wrote: »

I don't mean to have a go at you Gurteen but you simply cannot engage people like Sillyoulfool in reasoned debate. Some people have a quasi-religious fundamentalist 'good-and-evil' view of the world and trying to reason with them is as futile as trying to discuss astrophysics with a Labrador.

I would agree with that and I would say this characterizes both sides of the debate. People are often willing to forget, ignore or worse forgive the atrocities carried out by militants on their own "side".

Pastor Toastman

Nodin wrote: »

...You mean where millions died to 'free small nations' but were in fact fighting for competing empires who had a thing about making sure small nations stayed unfree? Funny enough, I think I know what would win the "silly" competition there

I mean what happened in the 1st world war, made the likes of the Brits consider their place in the world & how far they were willing to go to maintain it, far more than swatting aside the rising would have done.

It's just a pity it took another war to knock all the stupid nationalistic crap out of the countries where it could actually do real harm on an international scale.

Wulfie

Karl Stein wrote: »

I don't mean to have a go at you Gurteen but you simply cannot engage people like Sillyoulfool in reasoned debate. Some people have a quasi-religious fundamentalist 'good-and-evil' view of the world and trying to reason with them is as futile as trying to discuss astrophysics with a Labrador.

What makes you think you know more about astrophysics than a Labrador ?

Wulfie

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I would agree with that and I would say this characterizes both sides of the debate. People are often willing to forget, ignore or worse forgive the atrocities carried out by militants on their own "side".

http://youtu.be/kmBnvajSfWU

Karl Stein

Wulfie wrote: »

What makes you think you know more about astrophysics than a Labrador ?

I didn't say I knew more about it. I don't speak 'dog' is all.

Wulfie

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GuK7uB2ONdc#

question everything

Iwasfrozen

Wulfie wrote: »

http://youtu.be/kmBnvajSfWU

Good old Lowkey seems to make the assumption that terrorists(/freedom fighters as the word is subjective) only ever rebel when faced with US/UK exploitation of their homeland. He neglects to consider (or refuses to believe) that some groups are just bad. Some groups of people through the society they grew up in or the conditions that shaped their development just want to cause destruction or engage in profitable criminal activity like the IRA was wont to do.

He also needs to read up a bit more on Irish history. Gerry Adams was "never in the IRA":rolleyes:

Wulfie

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Good old Lowkey seems to make the assumption that terrorists(/freedom fighters as the word is subjective) only ever rebel when faced with US/UK exploitation of their homeland. He neglects to consider (or refuses to believe) that some groups are just bad. Some groups of people through the society they grew up in or the conditions that shaped their development just want to cause destruction or engage in profitable criminal activity like the IRA was wont to do.

He also needs to read up a bit more on Irish history. Gerry Adams was "never in the IRA":rolleyes:

You might call them Sinn Fein IRA . I'm sure Lowkey might not be all that clued up on Irish affairs . He seems to have a better knowledge of what's going on in the UK, than you .

Iwasfrozen

Wulfie wrote: »

You might call them Sinn Fein IRA . I'm sure Lowkey might not be all that clued up on Irish affairs . He seems to have a better knowledge of what's going on in the UK, than you .

Meh, I'd say we're both as clued in we just have different prospectives on some things while we agree on others. I'm just pointing out an assumption he made that challenges the one sided view presented in his video.

Wulfie

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Meh, I'd say we're both as clued in we just have different prospectives on some things while we agree on others. I'm just pointing out an assumption he made that challenges the one sided view presented in his video.

At the risk of being banned, I would just like to say ... Go fugk your posts .

The Golden Miller

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Meh, I'd say we're both as clued in we just have different prospectives on some things while we agree on others. I'm just pointing out an assumption he made that challenges the one sided view presented in his video.

You still here talking sh1te?

Iwasfrozen

The Golden Miller wrote: »

You still here talking sh1te?

Well you're responding to me.

Wulfie wrote: »

At the risk of being banned, I would just like to say ... Go fugk your posts .

Good thing we have people like you to lead the way to a new and better world.

The Golden Miller

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Well you're responding to me.

Still on here justifying the death of innocents, as long as they were committed by British forces?

Iwasfrozen

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Still on here justifying the death of innocents, as long as they were committed by British forces?

Nope.

The Golden Miller

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Nope.

I think ill call you "Iwaswrong" from now on

Iwasfrozen

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I think ill call you "Iwaswrong" from now on

Call me what you want as long as you don't call me rude.

que pasa

Richard wrote: »

The comment was about the Irish state imprisoning Republicans. The situation from 1916-22 was different.

Are those Republicans different?

kikidelvin

Yes,the one with the pin.

Nodin

Pastor Toastman wrote: »

I mean what happened in the 1st world war, made the likes of the Brits consider their place in the world & how far they were willing to go to maintain it, far more than swatting aside the rising would have done.

.....

That would be nice, but the fact is that it took the second world war and increasingly fraught finances to get rid of the Empire.

Nodin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Good old Lowkey seems to make the assumption that terrorists(/freedom fighters as the word is subjective) only ever rebel when faced with US/UK exploitation of their homeland. He neglects to consider (or refuses to believe) that some groups are just bad. Some groups of people through the society they grew up in or the conditions that shaped their development just want to cause destruction or engage in profitable criminal activity like the IRA was wont to do.

.........'young people being misled/ignorant people being misled' is next on the list.

ezra_pound

Rachiee wrote: »

I have some level of respect for the rising but feel the lily has now become far too much associated with Sinn Fein. So wouldn't wear it for that reason.

Yes. This is the elephant in the room.

Jawgap

The big difference between the French and American Revolutions, and the 1916 Rising is that the Sans Culottes and the Minutemen, Sons of Liberty etc didn't continue as post-revolutionary organised criminal enterprises.

Second, the American Army and the Armée de Terre do not have a subversive counterpart dressing up and running around claiming to be the legitimate army of their respective republics the way Óglaigh na hÉireann do.

Whatever about the late 1960s / early 1970s, and the need for Catholic and Nationalist communities to actively defend themselves, what went on before and after that was just brutal thuggishness and criminality, dressed up in rhetoric to try and disguise it as something nobler. Those who took part in it should not be commemorated at all, much less included in any broader commemoration of Irish patriotism.

The Rising was amateurish, poorly planned and badly executed but we do like a good tragedy in this country and what elevated it to its (rightful) place in our history was not the actions of the rebels, but the reactions of the British.

Santa Cruz

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Good old Lowkey seems to make the assumption that terrorists(/freedom fighters as the word is subjective) only ever rebel when faced with US/UK exploitation of their homeland. He neglects to consider (or refuses to believe) that some groups are just bad. Some groups of people through the society they grew up in or the conditions that shaped their development just want to cause destruction or engage in profitable criminal activity like the IRA was wont to do.

He also needs to read up a bit more on Irish history. Gerry Adams was "never in the IRA":rolleyes:

That's right. In the late 60s and 70s when Loyalist mobs and the British Army were running riot in the North, when Nationalist areas were under nightly siege Gerry Adams didn't do what many other young men did to defend their areas. Gerry decided that he would follow the political route and cheer from the sidelines. And for those actions he was highly respected by senior IRA men. Very plausible isn't it.

Annasopra

No way. Not giving any money over to fund the shinners.

Pastor Toastman

Nodin wrote: »

Pastor Toastman wrote: »

I mean what happened in the 1st world war, made the likes of the Brits consider their place in the world & how far they were willing to go to maintain it, far more than swatting aside the rising would have done.

That would be nice, but the fact is that it took the second world war and increasingly fraught finances to get rid of the Empire.

Yes, those fools, bankrupting themselves to finally neuter at least 1 brand of delusional myth-based evil. (Western European ultra-nationalism.)

Well, at least our lot got their little dig in, & grabbed a piece of history before the inevitable happened. Saved us from ending up like what, a less industrialised Scotland?

RandomName2

WesternZulu wrote: »

No, for the same reason I won't be wearing a poppy...no-matter what way they're spun they're a symbol of war and killing.

However I notice that a lot of people who would be pro wearing the poppy would be very anti of wearing the Lilly...in my view you can't have it both ways.

I get the impression that most people who wear the poppy consider the war it represents to have been mindless sacrifice and bloodshed, while those who wear the easter lilly consider the event that it signifies to have been a martyrdom.

delthedriver

No , have never worn an Easter Lily and don't plan on doing so in the future

Wulfie

I didn't get around to wearing a Lilly , but would have placed a bunch of them on my grandads grave. If I were anywhere near the midlands.

tomwaterford

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

No way. Not giving any money over to fund the shinners.

print your own next year so:rolleyes:

Birroc

70% No
30% Yes

That is kinda what I expected.

tomwaterford

Birroc wrote: »

70% No
30% Yes

That is kinda what I expected.

as someone who proudly wears an easter lily and encourages anyone who wants to,to do so....I didn't think it would be 30% yes

Iwasfrozen

Birroc wrote: »

70% No
30% Yes

That is kinda what I expected.

tomwaterford wrote: »

as someone who proudly wears an easter lily and encourages anyone who wants to,to do so....I didn't think it would be 30% yes

In the real world it wouldn't. I don't know about you but the out of the large number of people I saw on Sunday no where near 1/3 of them were wearing a lily. >0.5% would be more accurate.

Goes to show how out of touch boards is with the rest of society.

Birroc

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

In the real world it wouldn't. I don't know about you but the out of the large number of people I saw on Sunday no where near 1/3 of them were wearing a lily. >0.5% would be more accurate.

Goes to show how out of touch boards is with the rest of society.

Actually that's what I meant to say, I expected 30% of Boardsies to say Yes. But I imagine 90% of Irish people have never even heard of Easter lilies.

tomwaterford

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

In the real world it wouldn't. I don't know about you but the out of the large number of people I saw on Sunday no where near 1/3 of them were wearing a lily. >0.5% would be more accurate.

Goes to show how out of touch boards is with the rest of society.

I would have said 4-5%...which is a depressingly low figure in itself:o

and a lot of them would be aged 40+ a lot of the younger people I see wearing it would be nothing but knackers which is a pity as its a worthwhile cause IMO

that being said you wont find any knackers at the memorials around here...just some of the nicest, most honest and respectable people going the scumbags would usually be too hungover to attend

its a pity as imagine how bad things would be in the republic if we didn't achieve independence....for all the complaints...we are head and shoulders better off than 90% of the UK (excluding London) IMO

Jawgap

tomwaterford wrote: »

I would have said 4-5%...which is a depressingly low figure in itself:o

and a lot of them would be aged 40+ a lot of the younger people I see wearing it would be nothing but knackers which is a pity as its a worthwhile cause IMO

that being said you wont find any knackers at the memorials around here...just some of the nicest, most honest and respectable people going the scumbags would usually be too hungover to attend

its a pity as imagine how bad things would be in the republic if we didn't achieve independence....for all the complaints...we are head and shoulders better off than 90% of the UK (excluding London) IMO

I've had the unfortunate experience of having serious ill children on two occasions - once in the UK and once here........there's no comparison.

Say what you like about the Brits, but they don't dish out bills and demands for payment while your baby is in ICU trying to breathe.......yes, our Republic is great for cherishing all the children.........

allthedoyles

Birroc wrote: »

Actually that's what I meant to say, I expected 30% of Boardsies to say Yes. But I imagine 90% of Irish people have never even heard of Easter lilies.

Could be to do with availability , as I don't think they are widely available in local shops nationwide .

Don't think Irish people will go out of their way to get one .

Gurteen_97

Karl Stein wrote: »

I don't mean to have a go at you Gurteen but you simply cannot engage people like Sillyoulfool in reasoned debate. Some people have a quasi-religious fundamentalist 'good-and-evil' view of the world and trying to reason with them is as futile as trying to discuss astrophysics with a Labrador.

Yea that's a fair point.