Should irish be an optional subject to everyone ?

Mr Pseudonym

Just so we're all on the same page, 40% of the population answered Yes to the census-question, "Can you speak Irish?" 3% claimed to speak the language on a daily basis. The post-school age-range with the highest Yes response was 20-24 (44%).

Irish speakers | 2011 Census

yvngceebs

I didn't speak English at all. I was only fluent in Dutch and Twi (An African native language), so technically, I should be exempt. Wow, I'm upset hmm. Anyways, I do pass Irish so it's grand

Peregrine

Deathscythe wrote: »

Dear Nimrod if you really think hundreds of thousands of people speak Irish then your wrong because they are all senior citizens the language is dying with them. It is complete bull**** if you think the new generation speak it. People only speak it in remote areas of the gaeltacht.

No need for the temper.

Anyway, 1.7 million people said they're able to speak it in the 2011 census. While we both know that's bullshit, if you truly think the actual number is less than 100,000 then you're deluding yourself.

If anyone thinks I'm a fluent Irish speaker with a pro-Irish agenda, I hated the subject. In fact, I only came here when I was 10 but like yvngceebs, I was never exempted even though I couldn't speak English properly. I finally convinced my principal to let me drop it in 5th year.

yvngceebs wrote: »

so technically, I should be exempt. Wow, I'm upset hmm. Anyways, I do pass Irish so it's grand

Should have been exempt. I don't think retrospective exmeptions are granted.

If you look for one now, your principal will most likely say "You had no problem with it for 10 years. So why should you be exempt?"

yvngceebs

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

Should have been exempt. I don't think retrospective exmeptions are granted.

If you look for one now, your principal will most likely say "Well, you had no problem with it for 10 years. So why should you be exempt?"

I suppose I never really had a problem with it because I was always told I had to be 11 or over to be exempt. Only two years left of it anyways and my principal definitely won't let me drop it.

Mr Pseudonym

We see percentage jumps for those starting school compared with previous age-group, peaks at end-of-primary/beginning-of-secondary, declines until 25-29, then plateaus at about 35%.

Deathscythe

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

No need for the temper.

Anyway, 1.7 million people said they're able to speak it in the 2011 census. While we both know that's bullshit, if you truly think the actual number is less than 100,000 then you're deluding yourself.

If anyone thinks I'm a fluent Irish speaker with a pro-Irish agenda, I hated the subject. In fact, I only came here when I was 10 but like yvngceebs, I was never exempted even though I couldn't speak English properly. I finally convinced my principal to let me drop it in 5th year.



Should have been. I don't think retrospective exmeptions are granted.

I know what you mean I find it quite annoying that I can't drop the subject . 90% of my class want to drop it . They all believe that any other subject would better to do then irish.

Xgracie

retrogamefan wrote: »

Because you're comparing a subject which you chose to one which you're given that's how your argument is invalid, how could you think it's an intelligent argument

Ok

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Xgracie wrote: »

It would be a terrible shame if we were ever to lose our national language, it's unique and interesting and important to Irish culture

Had this discussion over in AH a while back and a lot people jumped to the ame wrong conclusion.

We're not talkign about scrapping it, we're talking about it being optinoal. Let those who want to do it, do it - let those who don't, don't.

There is nothing the Irish langauge is going to do for a disinterested student that some other subject won't. Good for learnign foreign langauges? Then learn a foreign langauge. Good for expressing your national pride? Who says I have national pride? And if I did, why can't I express it through another media, like art or dance or hurling?

Xgracie

Deathscythe wrote: »

It's a useless argument not all schools allow you to choose subjects. I just don't get your interest in Irish.

Don't understand the first sentence and I'm not even that interested in the language per say but I think it's cool Ireland has it's on language and all for such a small place, also people are interested in different things!

burtslimpslon

I agree that Irish is not exactly "useful" but i think it would be a shame if it wasn't thought as it would be a lose of Irish culture. Im in 3rd year and i think the main problem with Irish is how its thought, its just the English course translated to Irish which makes it boring and not interesting to learn. I would be more promoting changing how its thought then changing if its thought.

Xgracie

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Had this discussion over in AH a while back and a lot people jumped to the ame wrong conclusion.

We're not talkign about scrapping it, we're talking about it being optinoal. Let those who want to do it, do it - let those who don't, don't.

There is nothing the Irish langauge is going to do for a disinterested student that some other subject won't. Good for learnign foreign langauges? Then learn a foreign langauge. Good for expressing your national pride? Who says I have national pride? And if I did, why can't I express it through another media, like art or dance or hurling?

Yeah like if they were to change the syllabus or make it optional for LC maybe it would be ok I was speaking as if the person wanted it abolished from schools altogether

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Xgracie wrote: »

Yeah like if they were to change the syllabus or make it optional for LC maybe it would be ok I was speaking as if the person wanted it abolished from schools altogether

Clearly states optional and makes no reference to abolition.

Deathscythe

Xgracie wrote: »

Yeah like if they were to change the syllabus or make it optional for LC maybe it would be ok I was speaking as if the person wanted it abolished from schools altogether

That's what I was going on about I would love to have a choice to do Irish then having me forced to do it by law. I don't mind maths or any other subject its just Irish that I kind of despise.

carlowmurphy

I'm doing the leaving this year. Definitely should be compulsory. Its vital in my opinion to keep our native language. I know the course isn't interesting however when you start doing oral in school you do gain an interest in it. Trust me. Nothing better than being able to have a conversation as gaeilge.
Keep at it.

Manutd_4life

carlowmurphy wrote: »

I'm doing the leaving this year. Definitely should be compulsory. Its vital in my opinion to keep our native language. I know the course isn't interesting however when you start doing oral in school you do gain an interest in it. Trust me. Nothing better than being able to have a conversation as gaeilge.
Keep at it.

Nothing better than being able to have a conversation in irish!!!!! Your joking right.

Deathscythe

carlowmurphy wrote: »

I'm doing the leaving this year. Definitely should be compulsory. Its vital in my opinion to keep our native language. I know the course isn't interesting however when you start doing oral in school you do gain an interest in it. Trust me. Nothing better than being able to have a conversation as gaeilge.
Keep at it.

I'm doing jc this year. If it was optional it would kinda make it acceptable to say many people speak it. Because when people choose to do it you will kinda know that these people are the people who will speak it not who are believed to speak it but don't.

Deathscythe

Manutd_4life wrote: »

Nothing better than being able to have a conversation in irish!!!!! Your joking right.

HaHa

Mr Pseudonym

carlowmurphy wrote: »

Its vital in my opinion to keep our native language.

May be the case. But it's not currently achieved.

mlumley

Well, As an Englishman, living in Ireland for nearly 20 years, I am about to start learning it. I watched a program years ago on RTE, but the girl spoke toooooo fast. It basically was for Irish people to relearn. It put me off. Then Sharon from RTE news tried it, I'd watch anything she was in. But again it was for people who already knew some Irish. I have turned to the internweb and found a site for people who know no Irish at all.

I think after all the crap I have read on boards and other sites, about how Britain forced you into learning a foreign language, and ditching your own, no0 pun intended. I think it would be a shame for you to get rid of it.

I make sure my son (10) does his Irish. I ask him to sing in Irish.

Please please don't forget your roots, it is where you came from.

People were persecuted for speaking it. Keep your language alive, speak it whenever you can.

That way, you will have defeated the British. You kept your language.

Hey, but don't mind me, i'm just a brit living in your land. Wish you all talked Irish, I'd have had to learn it years ago.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

carlowmurphy wrote: »

I'm doing the leaving this year. Definitely should be compulsory. Its vital in my opinion to keep our native language. I know the course isn't interesting however when you start doing oral in school you do gain an interest in it. Trust me. Nothing better than being able to have a conversation as gaeilge.
Keep at it.

Again - why can people not differentiate between Irish being "optional" and "abolished"...? Seriously trying to get my head around this one.

Compulsory Irish will not - and has not at any time in resent history - be the life or death of the lanaguge.

Deathscythe

mlumley wrote: »

Well, As an Englishman, living in Ireland for nearly 20 years, I am about to start learning it. I watched a program years ago on RTE, but the girl spoke toooooo fast. It basically was for Irish people to relearn. It put me off. Then Sharon from RTE news tried it, I'd watch anything she was in. But again it was for people who already knew some Irish. I have turned to the internweb and found a site for people who know no Irish at all.

I think after all the crap I have read on boards and other sites, about how Britain forced you into learning a foreign language, and ditching your own, no0 pun intended. I think it would be a shame for you to get rid of it.

I make sure my son (10) does his Irish. I ask him to sing in Irish.

Please please don't forget your roots, it is where you came from.

People were persecuted for speaking it. Keep your language alive, speak it whenever you can.

That way, you will have defeated the British. You kept your language.

Hey, but don't mind me, i'm just a brit living in your land. Wish you all talked Irish, I'd have had to learn it years ago.

Hey man I know what you mean but some people out there want to and some don't want to learn Irish. I am not originally Irish. I am from African descent but was born in Ireland. I only want the language to be optional cos its really annoying having to do it. Every day I have to slave my way through classes of Irish. I don't hate any other subject. It's just that Irish is hard,boring and even tiring to learn. I get frustrated over the thought of having to do it for another two years.

Manutd_4life

Deathscythe wrote: »

Hey man I know what you mean but some people out there want to and some don't want to learn Irish. I am not originally Irish. I am from African descent but was born in Ireland. I only want the language to be optional cos its really annoying having to do it. Every day I have to slave my way through classes of Irish. I don't hate any other subject. It's just that Irish is hard,boring and even tiring to learn. I get frustrated over the thought of having to do it for another two years.

Exactly my thoughts. Took the words straight out of my mouth. I understand people want us to keep our roots and culture alive but people also have to understand that the majority of people don't give 2 s**ts about where they came from and the history of their country. TRUTH

Xgracie

Manutd_4life wrote: »

majority of people don't give 2 s**ts about where they came from and the history of their country. TRUTH

This is definitely untrue

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Xgracie wrote: »

This is definitely untrue

While you're probably correct, it's beside the point. If one person doesn't give two ****s about the langauge why should he not be allowed to do something he does care about?

gaeilgeor

Deathscythe wrote: »

Personally I find Irish quite a useless subject so I would like to see what everyone else's thinks about it. I asked my class 1 out of 30 said it was important and useful.

Irish being a useless subject ?????? Well then you can call them all useless !
Maths : unless one wants to have a profession in maths , basic primary school maths is really needed.
Learning things in life is not all about the usefulness. Learning is just gaining new information and sometimes it is useful in later life and sometimes it's not .
I was born in Dublin, my family from Nigeria so I have no aid in learning Irish at home yet I have a good attitude towards the subject. Keeping a high head is the way to start liking a subject.

Snake

Deathscythe wrote: »

Dear Nimrod if you really think hundreds of thousands of people speak Irish then your wrong because they are all senior citizens the language is dying with them. It is complete bull**** if you think the new generation speak it. People only speak it in remote areas of the gaeltacht.

My 15 year old cousin speaks fluent Irish and lives in wexford... My 5 year old cousin also speaks it... She too lives in wexford so you're wrong on so many levels because they aren't the only people I know who speak it

Snake

A lot of the people who care about us speaking the language seem to have foreign roots... That's sad... Kind of makes me ashamed... Not ashamed enough to learn Irish... But ashamed nonetheless

Eims14

Manutd_4life wrote: »

Exactly my thoughts. Took the words straight out of my mouth. I understand people want us to keep our roots and culture alive but people also have to understand that the majority of people don't give 2 s**ts about where they came from and the history of their country. TRUTH

I dont get this way of thinking,of course people care (well people I know do)people died so we could be independent and im proud that such a little country manage to gain independence(mostlyish) so that we could speak our own language without persecution and it saddens me that people want to give irish up cos they would rather learn about algebra then aimsir caite

Peregrine

Eims14 wrote: »

it saddens me that people want to give irish up cos they would rather learn about algebra then aimsir caite

As much as I want the language to prosper, it would sadden me if a child chose aimsir caite over algebra.

Algebra, along with the rest of mathematics is knowledge acquired by humans over thousands of years, without which our daily lives today would be drastically different. Why does sadden you to see a student more passionate about maths than Irish?

Let's not compare science with culture.

dalta5billion

Hi everyone,

Currently in 5th year.

Irish should be optional from Junior Cert on. However for the JC, there should be a small written test in Irish - mostly an oral, in which one has to hold a conversation about normal things, no sraith pictiur bullcrap.

I would put more emphasis at Leaving Cert on modern Irish literature - for example popular books translated into Irish, Harry Potter agus an Órchloch, Artemis Fowl. I loved reading as a child - this led to me pronouncing wrongly words I'd never heard before! Dúnmharú ar an Dart is also perfect.

Regarding teaching of it, I would abolish grammar in the exam. Quite frankly I'm just throwing in sheimhiús and taking out i's and e's. I've printed pages and pages of rules and I still don't get it.

I'm a "Leinster-Irish-Speaker", and during the listening I feel like Connemara and Donegal are conspiring to confuse me with their accents. Also, the voice actors pretending to be school children is pathetic and misleading.

This bull**** of making English words Irish seriously has to stop. Ukraine = Ukraine, looking at you TG4 news. That said, I heard an Aran Islands native say "ag headáil" = heading, on a program the other day, which made me wonder whether pidgin Irish could work here.