2014 Recruitment!

Sthm

A few weeks back, I posted the link to the transcript of Spence's speech made at the PFNI Annual Conference. Very odd that it's now removed from the PFNI website. A copy was also on the DOJ website which has also been removed. Make of that what you will.

Here's a snippet of Spence's comments that seem to completely contradict this new agreement that apparently is taking effect Sept 2014 (most relevant parts in bold):

The package, which was agreed at PNB in London, followed local agreement with the official side. That is the Department of Justice, the Policing Board and the PSNI.

It doesn’t give us everything we asked for but it acknowledges the case we consistently made, that we are special and different when it comes to the job that we do!

The new Agreement will take effect from September 1st.

Many of you will know the detail but it’s worth revisiting the key points.

There will be no detrimental change to pensionable pay – that was a primary objective of this Federation.

The threat of a 2-year freeze, on incremental pay point progression for Constables, was removed.

CRTP will remain an integral part of our pensionable pay.

On-call allowance will increase, from £3.74 to £15, and for public holidays, increased to £23.

There will also be streamlining of pay points for the Constable rank, which will reduce from the current 10 years, to 7, over a three-year period.

I am pleased that Junior Constables, will now be able to access CRTP after 7 years, instead of the present 10-year arrangement.

Today, I want to take this opportunity of reassuring our rank and file that the worst excesses of the Windsor recommendations, which were unjustifiably imposed on our England and Wales colleagues, have been successfully resisted and finally put to bed.

Overall, we believe this deal is fair and reasonable.

At times, some of the meetings we had were tough and frustrating and, as is the case in any such negotiations, we too compromised by agreeing the abolition of SPPs.

That said, I firmly believe we got the best possible outcome against an economic mantra that calls for doing more, with less.

Interesting to see how this pans out soon. No doubt it'll be all over the media in due course if the salary is reduced to the E&W rate.

MD4PSNI

DesertCreat_15 wrote: »

Don't hate on me for saying this MD4, but if it was anywhere else in the UK or Ireland, I would happily work for £19k a year, but thing is, it's not.


As soon as one becomes a student constable, he/she and his/her family is a target day and night 24/7 - 365.

I would work for £19k a year if it came to it, but to me it doesn't seem very appreciative of the risks and job the PSNI do.

Id never hate on u buddy :-)

I agree that we would all love to be paid well. I just think even if they do drop starting salary, people like me and you would still apply.

But, people who are complaining about the salary arnt totally heart set on the job. If it only comes down to money they are on this campaign too long.

:-) still friends? Lol

junior 1

What kind of salaries can graduates expect to earn as PCs? Do they start off on a higher pay grade? I'm thinking of applying.

oztop1234

junior 1 wrote: »

What kind of salaries can graduates expect to earn as PCs? Do they start off on a higher pay grade? I'm thinking of applying.

Everyone is paid the same whether you are a graduate or not

TDA2

junior 1 wrote: »

What kind of salaries can graduates expect to earn as PCs? Do they start off on a higher pay grade? I'm thinking of applying.

Junior, I am curious as to why you think they'd earn more?

Homer01

Heard it all now :rolleyes:

pcplod

TDA2 wrote: »

Junior, I am curious as to why you think they'd earn more?

im with ya there

DesertCreat_15

Once upon a time they would have started on a higher salary with the Gardai.

Homer01

To be fair this young pup is probably thinking of the officer programme the army does

sweet chuck

Yeah in my work there is a graduate scheme, so not a bad question to be fair.

19087

I don't think it's that ridiculous a question. Eg if you join the royal navy as an officer and you have a degree you earn about 12k more than a non graduate! Lots of places, especially government, have graduate schemes.

TDA2

19087 wrote: »

I don't think it's that ridiculous a question. Eg if you join the royal navy as an officer and you have a degree you earn about 12k more than a non graduate! Lots of places, especially government, have graduate schemes.

Yeah but not if you are joining at the same rank eg constable. Would an employer prefer someone with relevant experience eg. 10 years or someone with a degree. Would a horticulture degree be as relevant as a law or psychology or forensic science degree in the psni? Life skills, people skills and experience are more important in the police. I have no degrees but over 20 specialist courses that would be worth more than the ucas points for a doctorate and most would be a waste in the psni. I don't understand when some people with degrees automatically assume they are better and can do a job better - no offence intended or directed.

One thing great about the psni is that everyone starts at the bottom and works in frontline policing before promotions, apart from transfers that have already. I do not believe that you should be an officer in the police or armed services without frontline experience or a tour. I believe to join the met you must have a degree. Would I not also be safe in saying that graduate schemes are apprenticeships for degree students and normally the pay is lousy for a while.

junior 1

TDA2 wrote: »

Junior, I am curious as to why you think they'd earn more?

If you studied for three or four years at university while earning enough to just about feed yourself you might appreciate the value of a university degree.

DesertCreat_15 wrote: »

Once upon a time they would have started on a higher salary with the Gardai.

Like this poster said.

TDA2 wrote: »

I don't understand when some people with degrees automatically assume they are better and can do a job better - no offence intended or directed.

Like I said before, if you don't have a degree then how would you know how valuable it is? It's stupid not to reward PCs with relevant degrees. A PC with a Law Degree is far more valuable than one without. My understanding is that senior members of the police force need third level education before they can progress any further. Who exactly will call the shots in the upper ranks in complicated situations? A guy with a couple of certificates?
What about the PSNIs equivalent of the Criminal Assets Bureau or Department of Fraud?
These aren't jobs you just walk into and require certain education and skills.

oztop1234

I think everyone needs to be careful here.

No one is more valuable to the PSNI because they may or may not have a degree. The PSNI benefit from attracting people from all walks of life with different qualifications. The new chief constable started as a PC in the RUC and has achieved his degrees whilst serving.

The old assistant chief con started as a PC in the RUC. I'm pretty sure.

Basically the Police are unique as they train you in their mould and they as an organisation benefit from attracting loads of different people. Which is what it's about as you are protecting and serving your community.

TDA2

junior 1 wrote: »

If you studied for three or four years at university while earning enough to just about feed yourself you might appreciate the value of a university degree.



Like this poster said.



Like I said before, if you don't have a degree then how would you know how valuable it is? It's stupid not to reward PCs with relevant degrees. A PC with a Law Degree is far more valuable than one without. My understanding is that senior members of the police force need third level education before they can progress any further. Who exactly will call the shots in the upper ranks in complicated situations? A guy with a couple of certificates?
What about the PSNIs equivalent of the Criminal Assets Bureau or Department of Fraud?
These aren't jobs you just walk into and require certain education and skills.

The point is we all join as a PC and all receive the same training. They do the same job and everyone with the required level of intelligence has the opportunity to be streamlined in promotion through a program. A law degree for starters would have to be on NI criminal law. That does not mean for one second that they will make a good police officer at any level.

In terms of your struggles in paying for uni that was your choice and you do not know any other persons background or difficulties they have encountered. Richard Branson never had a degree and I bet you he could spot a fraud pretty quickly. I'd bet someone with experience in insurance fraud and investigations could perform well on the fore mentioned roles better than someone just out on uni.

If you want some very senior roles yes they want certain degrees but they want and need experience not statisticians and historians.

Why do employers say a degree with 2 years experience or 6 years experience? Don't get me wrong degrees have a purpose and a very valuable in certains areas eg Drs. Do computer hackers and bombers have degrees?

I will agree that relevant experience and relevant degrees are vital but to expect more money. Anyhow a lot of employers and graduates are paying and working for the minimum wage and this makes a mockery of the value of the degree.

Mop a top

Well said oztop1234

Totally honest I dropped out of uni cos I couldn't afford to stay and parents couldn't support me. After a couple of months I got a job working in a chain pub and worked my way up to manager. Sorry to say but I'm quite happy managing the nasties but I totally agree, PSNI gave seen something in all of us to get this far and they'll strengthen our weaknesses and make our strengths greater. There's a lot to be said for variety, whether you're academic/have life skills and starting at the bottom. You can at least appreciate what your subordinates (I hate that word lol) go through when you've been there and done it. Well each be able to learn from each other and work as a team to improve ourselves and the service were hoping to join.

So with that said, this time I'm happy sitting on the fence in this debate/discussion

junior 1

TDA2 wrote: »

The point is we all join as a PC and all receive the same training. They do the same job and everyone with the required level of intelligence has the opportunity to be streamlined in promotion through a program. A law degree for starters would have to be on NI criminal law. That does not mean for one second that they will make a good police officer at any level.

In terms of your struggles in paying for uni that was your choice and you do not know any other persons background or difficulties they have encountered. Richard Branson never had a degree and I bet you he could spot a fraud pretty quickly. I'd bet someone with experience in insurance fraud and investigations could perform well on the fore mentioned roles better than someone just out on uni.

If you want some very senior roles yes they want certain degrees but they want and need experience not statisticians and historians.

Why do employers say a degree with 2 years experience or 6 years experience? Don't get me wrong degrees have a purpose and a very valuable in certains areas eg Drs. Do computer hackers and bombers have degrees?

I will agree that relevant experience and relevant degrees are vital but to expect more money. Anyhow a lot of employers and graduates are paying and working for the minimum wage and this makes a mockery of the value of the degree.

Just to add to that, those who lead the Anglo Investigation in Dublin needed to have a high degree of education to do that. It wasn't something they would have picked up 'on the job'.

White collar crime is a very serious matter and your average cop may never understand it. It's one of the reasons why so much of it goes undetected.

Mop a top

Now like I said I'm sitting on the fence here. I can see pros and cons to both side of the argument but that statement makes it sound like folk without a degree aren't as intelligent as those who do. I think we should all just move on from the subject before anyone gets offended by ANY OF THE POSTS not just those by particular people :-/

oztop1234

Agree.....

Move on from it.

Let's get it back on topic

Dekkers

Ah the degree debate again. Joy!

See I have a 'relevant' degree. Have argued in the past that it should be taken into account at some stage but, realistically, this is unworkable.

There is no way that I would expect to start on a higher grade than others. Would be ill deserved and woeful for morale and, inevitably, create a split.

Starting on the bottom rung is fair for all. If your confident in your degree maybe it will help you progress through the ranks but I do get the impression that there isn't all that much room for progression in the PSNI.

popolive

Dekkers wrote: »

Starting on the bottom rung is fair for all. If your confident in your degree maybe it will help you progress through the ranks but I do get the impression that there isn't all that much room for progression in the PSNI.

I think it could depend upon your attitude and level of commitment.

A good question might be: How easy is it to eventually transfer to the mainland police , (say London Met for example) and if that is achieved, is there much room for progression over there ?

Dekkers

popolive wrote: »

I think it could depend upon your attitude and level of commitment.

A good question might be: How easy is it to eventually transfer to the mainland police , (say London Met for example) and if that is achieved, is there much room for progression over there ?

I'm not applying with transferring in mind so hard to say really.

Probably easier to get into a mainland police service in the first place, I'd imagine.

junior 1

Application gone in their tonight lads. Hopefully not so long to wait.

Choobs

junior 1 wrote: »

Application gone in their tonight lads. Hopefully not so long to wait.

*there

You...I don't like you...The superior attitude needs to be adjusted before you begin

kriya

Value of a degree versus life experience is a moot point. The value of the current system within the police is, at least, meritocratic.

While a degree can broaden one's horizons and sharpen thinking skills, particularly analytical reasoning, it could be argued that initial police training provides a similar environment, albeit in a more compact, concentrated time-frame, certainly with regards to time management.

However, on the ground, at your stations, there will be little room for over-thinking and the luxury of time is not one which you will be afforded.

You will need to make decisions which are legally correct, fair and impartial while remaining composed, calm and vigilant, without buckling under stress or succombing to anger.

A degree cannot prepare you for such circumstances, but police training will.

Dekkers

The entire debate is moot due to the fact that 'having life experience' and 'having a degree' aren't mutually exclusive.

junior 1

Choobs wrote: »

*there

You...I don't like you...The superior attitude needs to be adjusted before you begin

Does it? All I see are people with chips on their shoulders because I raised the subject. I didn't know the police attracted those types.

Anyway, I'm not joining up to make friends, only to make money and to use guns.

TDA2

junior 1 wrote: »

Does it? All I see are people with chips on their shoulders because I raised the subject. I didn't know the police attracted those types.

Anyway, I'm not joining up to make friends, only to make money and to use guns.

Hey buddy
Don't take offence. It's a bit like a debate society! At least there won't be problems with ecdl this time! Life is all about choices, some good some bad. We choose a career and do what we see best to get there whether it be apprenticeship, degree or other. To flip the question should someone with 4 years relevant experience earn more!

We are all here to join and some of us have tried many times before. So when we get to Garnerville we'll continue the debate!

Homer01

junior 1 wrote: »

Does it? All I see are people with chips on their shoulders because I raised the subject. I didn't know the police attracted those types.

Anyway, I'm not joining up to make friends, only to make money and to use guns.

:rolleyes:

You've clearly no interest in this perhaps you're just here to troll. So did you choose your degree with the intention of joining the police or have you given up on your original choices?

Mop a top

junior 1 wrote: »

Application gone in their tonight lads. Hopefully not so long to wait.

Like I said I'm sitting on the fence as far as this debate goes however I will say this.

The first part of your IST is to spot grammatical errors and spelling mistakes. So Choobs was right to correct you.

Secondly if you're fortunate enough to get through to GV you will need to develop relationships, maybe not friendships, but some form of one with your colleagues. I'm assuming team work will feature heavily in GV as it's trying to set you up for life in your station and obviously PC's work in pairs.

You're applying for a service industry now. PSNI isn't a force. They want people with good interpersonal skills and it's very evident in the online training that this is their mind set. It's only my opinion but you can come across as condescending, I'm not sure if that's intentional or not as we obviously interpret the written word differently. However I couldn't see that attitude getting you through the AC so my advice would be to work on losing the condescending attitude, you're under no obligation to take my advice but I couldn't see it being part of the PSNI's desired criteria.

You will potentially be working with people on this forum, spending an awfully long time working in close quarters with them, is it wise to get their backs up? I'm not saying you're doing it intentionally but that's the way it's coming across.

Lastly and this is food for thought for everyone. If we're all doing the same job to the same standard why should some be paid more than others?? A degree or life experience shouldn't warrent you being unfairly paid more than your probationary colleagues if we are all doing the same job but that's just my opinion.