Non Pool fans: Do you want Liverpool to win with the League this year?

ush

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Yeah so it's quite possible to watch the premier league without supporting any of the teams?

If you'd correct your erroneous statement and move on that'd be great.

Actually, I've formed an opinion on that wall. I wouldn't have painted it exactly that shade of mauve. I am no longer neutral on the wall question.

Omackeral

ush wrote: »

You'll still have prejudices and opinions. I'll stick by my previous statement that there's no such thing as a neutral, if they're watching a competition for sustained periods.

Opinions are formed, that's true. But it's definitely possible to stay neutral if you've no links to a team. I could watch any match of a foreign league and enjoy it without rooting for a team. Same goes for the GAA All Ireland if my county aren't in it. I enjoy it for what it is. Case in point, I'm watching Newcastle vs Swansea here now, couldn't give a fiddlers who wins!

Liam O

garra wrote: »

The "buying" of the league is being discussed.
The more money you spend money on something, the more you "buy it".
The figures below outline the amount of "buying" done by all the clubs, and break it down to a average yearly figure for net spend over the last 5 years.
Man City and Chelski's spending over the last 5 years is clearly indicative of a concerted effort to "buy" success.

Questions still?

I called you up on this chart in the Liverpool thread and you yourself acknowledged it was wrong, and yet you're using it in another argument. Anyway, even though the majority of figures are wrong having a team that's spent 90m on players above one that's spent 300m is just plain ignorance of how the system works and is posting with an agenda. How much extra did Liverpool and Spurs pay in agents/signing fees than Stoke or whoever and the wages for the players who were only there for a year or 2 would be significantly higher in most cases too.

niallo27

rarnes1 wrote: »

No can't stand them or their fans

They are handsome ****ers though in fairness.

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

They are handsome ****ers though in fairness.

I dunno, any Liverpool fan I have met has cross eyes and goats feet

Holsten

To the people who say the fans are horrible, "it's our year" etc..

Can you please give a longer reasoning for this? I don't know of ANY Liverpool fans who've ever thought they were anywhere close to winning the league except for 2009. This is said more from other fans than from Pool fans.

bobbysands81

I voted Yes.

A couple of good friends and my Da follow them so I'd like them to win to make them happy.

ush

Omackeral wrote: »

Opinions are formed, that's true. But it's definitely possible to stay neutral if you've no links to a team. I could watch any match of a foreign league and enjoy it without rooting for a team. Same goes for the GAA All Ireland if my county aren't in it. I enjoy it for what it is. Case in point, I'm watching Newcastle vs Swansea here now, couldn't give a fiddlers who wins!

NUFC v Swansea. Not a fiddlers. Fine.

But no prejudices as to the rest of the league? A neutral. A neutral non-pool fan that OP thinks exists.

I don't think humans are built that way. Which in no way excuses our prejudices in other areas of life. But we pick these things up.

ush

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I voted Yes.

So did I, as did many other anonymous neutrals.

Omackeral

ush wrote: »

NUFC v Swansea. Not a fiddlers. Fine.

But no prejudices as to the rest of the league? A neutral. A neutral non-pool fan that OP thinks exists.

I don't think humans are built that way. Which in no way excuses our prejudices in other areas of life. But we pick these things up.

Actually Bone just equalised for Swansea so forget everything I said. My prejudices have been well and truly formed. Swans Til I Die.

ush

Omackeral wrote: »

Actually Bone just equalised for Swansea so forget everything I said. My prejudices have been well and truly formed. Swans Til I Die.

Thats the spirit.

garra

Liam O wrote: »

I called you up on this chart in the Liverpool thread and you yourself acknowledged it was wrong, and yet you're using it in another argument. Anyway, even though the majority of figures are wrong having a team that's spent 90m on players above one that's spent 300m is just plain ignorance of how the system works and is posting with an agenda. How much extra did Liverpool and Spurs pay in agents/signing fees than Stoke or whoever and the wages for the players who were only there for a year or 2 would be significantly higher in most cases too.

Yes you did "call me up" on the veracity of the figures and amended Pool net spend is nearer 23 mil over last 5 years, compared to the multiples of that figure spent by City and Russian-oligarch sponsored Chelsea..

Lets just think about this for a second.. every year, for the last 5 years, City have spent 72 million stg more on transfers than Liverpool. Leaving aside the ethical arguments of fair play, the fact that City are not producing the goods commensurate with their investment and Liverpool are signifcantly over-achieving in this regard is the salient point for a neutral fan's observation.

You are correct in stating that players wages and agents fees are not accounted for, and City have the highest wage bill of all sports team world-wide. Liverpool's wage bill has been steadily decreasing over the 3 last years in contrast to City's & United's.

The Stoke anomaly is an interesting one. This is a product of buying older established pros (the likes of Crouch), who will make an impact but not give a sell-on value, and also not producing any home-grown stars to make a profit on.

RoryMac

ush wrote: »

NUFC v Swansea. Not a fiddlers. Fine.

But no prejudices as to the rest of the league? A neutral. A neutral non-pool fan that OP thinks exists.

I don't think humans are built that way. Which in no way excuses our prejudices in other areas of life. But we pick these things up.

I'd class myself as a neutral when it comes to the EPL and hope Liverpool win the league, they've played the best football and the run they are on at the moment & style with which they had done it is pretty amazing.

You are right about prejudices that fans pick up but as I don't follow any EPL side they can change very quickly. I could watch a Liverpool game and hope they win as they are exciting to watch but that could change straight away if for example a player dived to get a penalty etc.

When Dagleish was in charge I may have classed myself as anti-Liverpool as I thought he made a complete pigs ear of the Suarez situation but under Rogers my opinion has changed.

Same goes for all of the top EPL teams, depending on circumstances I can like or dislike teams but I can't say there is one EPL team that I have formed a permanent opinion on.

Liam O

garra wrote: »

Yes you did "call me up" on the veracity of the figures and amended Pool net spend is nearer 23 mil over last 5 years, compared to the multiples of that figure spent by City and Russian-oligarch sponsored Chelsea..

Lets just think about this for a second.. every year, for the last 5 years, City have spent 72 million stg more on transfers than Liverpool. Leaving aside the ethical arguments of fair play, the fact that City are not producing the goods commensurate with their investment and Liverpool are signifcantly over-achieving in this regard is the salient point for a neutral fan's observation.

You are correct in stating that players wages and agents fees are not accounted for, and City have the highest wage bill of all sports team world-wide. Liverpool's wage bill has been steadily decreasing over the 3 last years in contrast to City's & United's.

The Stoke anomaly is an interesting one. This is a product of buying older established pros (the likes of Crouch), who will make an impact but not give a sell-on value, and also not producing any home-grown stars to make a profit on.

You never answered thwn why are you still producing charts that you know the figures are off? It makes your whole point redundant without the right figures to back it up.

LiamoSail

Liam O wrote: »

You never answered thwn why are you still producing charts that you know the figures are off? It makes your whole point redundant without the right figures to back it up.

A difference of £6m/season in the context of the sums involved is largely irrelevant. You can't expect a random poster on an Internet forum to amend such a chart to reflect that

garra

Liam O wrote: »

You never answered thwn why are you still producing charts that you know the figures are off? It makes your whole point redundant without the right figures to back it up.

I think the obfuscation is strong in this one.

billyhead

This coming from a United supported (which I will probaly get vilified for), but I would like to see them win it this year. We as a nation have more in common with Liverpool then the likes city and Chelsea i.e a large number of Irish moved over their to work in the industrys and their are many people living in Liverpool now with an Irish connection. Also Rodgers is from Ballmena as far as I know and I like his managerial no bull**** style. Hes the complete opposite of that tool Mourinho. Aslo he had to get to this stage with limited financial backing and resources and it makes me squirm when I see these sugar daddies coming into the league thinking they can but success. Asslo the fact that its the Hillsborough anniversary and what a fitting tribute a league win would be and they they have been starved of success for so long and Gerrard deserves silverware for his loyalty and service to the club.

niallo27

Liam O wrote: »

You never answered thwn why are you still producing charts that you know the figures are off? It makes your whole point redundant without the right figures to back it up.

Liam O

LiamoSail wrote: »

A difference of £6m/season in the context of the sums involved is largely irrelevant. You can't expect a random poster on an Internet forum to amend such a chart to reflect that

If the figures are wrong for one team there's a good chance they're wrong for everyone else, but sure, why not keep using a chart that's wrong to prove a point about net spend and now it seems when called up he's going to make an irrelevant post and slink off into the woodwork rather than argue the point he made. Great.

NukaCola

Its turned into an accountancy thread. Great.......

garra

billyhead wrote: »

This coming from a United supported (which I will probaly get vilified for), but I would like to see them win it this year. We as a nation have more in common with Liverpool then the likes city and Chelsea i.e a large number of Irish moved over their to work in the industrys and their are many people living in Liverpool now with an Irish connection. Also Rodgers is from Ballmena as far as I know and I like his managerial no bull**** style. Hes the complete opposite of that tool Mourinho. Aslo he had to get to this stage with limited financial backing and resources and it makes me squirm when I see these sugar daddies coming into the league thinking they can but success. Asslo the fact that its the Hillsborough anniversary and what a fitting tribute a league win would be and they they have been starved of success for so long and Gerrard deserves silverware for his loyalty and service to the club.

I couldn't have put it better myself...

Mr Alan

Liam O wrote: »

If the figures are wrong for one team there's a good chance they're wrong for everyone else, but sure, why not keep using a chart that's wrong to prove a point about net spend and now it seems when called up he's going to make an irrelevant post and slink off into the woodwork rather than argue the point he made. Great.

Do you agree that the figures in the chart are there or thereabouts accurate? (Taking into account that no chart of this nature will ever be 100% accurate)

garra

Liam O wrote: »

If the figures are wrong for one team there's a good chance they're wrong for everyone else, but sure, why not keep using a chart that's wrong to prove a point about net spend and now it seems when called up he's going to make an irrelevant post and slink off into the woodwork rather than argue the point he made. Great.

Even if the figures are out by up to 20% (not likely), the differentials are such that the point is still the same. Argue the point, not the figures. I dont have a qualification in accountancy and dont intend to acquire one as a by product of posting about a football team. Good day now sir

AdamD

Liam O wrote: »

If the figures are wrong for one team there's a good chance they're wrong for everyone else, but sure, why not keep using a chart that's wrong to prove a point about net spend and now it seems when called up he's going to make an irrelevant post and slink off into the woodwork rather than argue the point he made. Great.

The figures don't need to be 100% accurate for people to get a general understanding for the circumstances. A more important point would be that they need to be considered in the context of wage bills too

Matt_Trakker

Anyone but Chelsea, plus would be nice to see the first Irishman in what, nearly a century winning the top flight title in England.

How Soon Is Now

All messing aside rivalry's whatever i actually wouldn't begrudge them winning it this year because they would deserve it.

Grand i dont like there manager and Sturridge is a smug arrogant glory hunter but this season they have played some great football.

As many have mentioned though its not really the team its there fans.

Ireland and Dublin is bloody full of Liverpool fans and ive come across many good ones who are just there to enjoy it like anyone else but and heres the BIG BUT......... There are a portion of total yokes who follow Liverpool and believe me you hear them before you see them.

Loud mouth over the top tools who only have an interest in starting **** with rival fans half of them id imagine know nothing else about football other then ''Uhhh Stevie G's a legend and Suarez is an animal''

Before anyone comes out with it its not bitterness because ive been there to see Blackburn Arsenal Chelsea and City win the league and i dont love there fans but ive had plenty of laugh and banter with them in the past. They win games and titles but tend to just look after there own interests and not mind others.

Its no shock that the ones who always got me going where Liverpool fans.

If they win the league they will deserve it and fair play but ffs god help everyone else having to listen to pure ****e for a long time to come.

5starpool

Thread delivers. Thanks OP.

That_Guy

Yep. Wouldn't mind seeing them win it. Liverpool have quickly turned around my opinion of them and I think that's more down to Rodgers and their style of play.

He's kept his mouth relatively shut and hasn't been a knob end like Mourinho with offensive comments.

Something nice about Liverpool in that they remind me of Newcastle's "entertainers" somewhat though they know how to win games in different ways.

Enjoying them this season so would like them to win it.

Liamalone

Matt_Trakker wrote: »

Anyone but Chelsea, plus would be nice to see the first Irishman in what, nearly a century winning the top flight title in England.

But Sky only invented football in 1992?

LuckyLloyd

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

All messing aside rivalry's whatever i actually wouldn't begrudge them winning it this year because they would deserve it.

Grand i dont like there manager and Sturridge is a smug arrogant glory hunter but this season they have played some great football.

As many have mentioned though its not really the team its there fans.

Ireland and Dublin is bloody full of Liverpool fans and ive come across many good ones who are just there to enjoy it like anyone else but and heres the BIG BUT......... There are a portion of total yokes who follow Liverpool and believe me you hear them before you see them.

Loud mouth over the top tools who only have an interest in starting **** with rival fans half of them id imagine know nothing else about football other then ''Uhhh Stevie G's a legend and Suarez is an animal''

Before anyone comes out with it its not bitterness because ive been there to see Blackburn Arsenal Chelsea and City win the league and i dont love there fans but ive had plenty of laugh and banter with them in the past. They win games and titles but tend to just look after there own interests and not mind others.

Its no shock that the ones who always got me going where Liverpool fans.

If they win the league they will deserve it and fair play but ffs god help everyone else having to listen to pure ****e for a long time to come.

Brilliant post

How Soon Is Now

That_Guy wrote: »

Agreed. Makes me wonder why it has a yellow card attached to it.

I called Sturridge a cnut :P edited it out to be nice ha.

LuckyLloyd

That_Guy wrote: »

Agreed. Makes me wonder why it has a yellow card attached to it.

We need more hate like it. This is the bitterness we were promised.

Utopia Parkway

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

All messing aside rivalry's whatever i actually wouldn't begrudge them winning it this year because they would deserve it.

Grand i dont like there manager and Sturridge is a smug arrogant glory hunter but this season they have played some great football.

As many have mentioned though its not really the team its there fans.

Ireland and Dublin is bloody full of Liverpool fans and ive come across many good ones who are just there to enjoy it like anyone else but and heres the BIG BUT......... There are a portion of total yokes who follow Liverpool and believe me you hear them before you see them.

Loud mouth over the top tools who only have an interest in starting **** with rival fans half of them id imagine know nothing else about football other then ''Uhhh Stevie G's a legend and Suarez is an animal''

Before anyone comes out with it its not bitterness because ive been there to see Blackburn Arsenal Chelsea and City win the league and i dont love there fans but ive had plenty of laugh and banter with them in the past. They win games and titles but tend to just look after there own interests and not mind others.

Its no shock that the ones who always got me going where Liverpool fans.

If they win the league they will deserve it and fair play but ffs god help everyone else having to listen to pure ****e for a long time to come.

In fairness you can't compare being in Ireland and when Arsenal, Chelsea, Blackburn and City won the league to Liverpool possibly winning it. There are undoubtably way way more Liverpool fans in Ireland than the 4 others combined together. So you are going to come across more annoying Liverpool fans through sheer force of numbers. There are also way more sound Liverpool fans out there for the exact same reason.

niallo27

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

I called Sturridge a cnut :P edited it out to be nice ha.

Sturridge come across as a real nice bloke who seems to love just playing football. He always gives his shirt to some young fella home or away.

5starpool

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

In fairness you can't compare being in Ireland and when Arsenal, Chelsea, Blackburn and City won the league to Liverpool possibly winning it. There are undoubtably way way more Liverpool fans in Ireland than the 4 others combined together. So you are going to come across more annoying Liverpool fans through sheer force of numbers. There are also way more sound Liverpool fans out there for the exact same reason.

This point is lost on so many people though for some reason.

Liam O

garra wrote: »

Even if the figures are out by up to 20% (not likely), the differentials are such that the point is still the same. Argue the point, not the figures. I dont have a qualification in accountancy and dont intend to acquire one as a by product of posting about a football team. Good day now sir

A 20% difference and suddenly Liverpool shoot up your little league table to 3rd. Hardly outrageous to expect you not to say it's a great achievement for Liverpool based on that. I'm not saying Rodgers hasn't done brilliantly with what's available but Liverpool have hugely underachieved for a long time now based on money spent so using that chart, especially when you know the figures are I think it was 30m off after you looked into just Liverpool sales is just silly imo.

How Soon Is Now

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

In fairness you can't compare being in Ireland and when Arsenal, Chelsea, Blackburn and City won the league to Liverpool possibly winning it. There are undoubtably way way more Liverpool fans in Ireland than the 4 others combined together. So you are going to come across more annoying Liverpool fans through sheer force of numbers. There are also way more sound Liverpool fans out there for the exact same reason.

The country is full of Liverpool fans as well as United fans but theres plenty of other rival clubs fans around to. Its just the fact ''they'' tend to stand out a lot more then the rest. You could have one Liverpool fan sitting in a pub watching a United and Chelsea match and guess whos gonna start mouthing off and slagging people when the goals start going in.....

murpho999

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

All messing aside rivalry's whatever i actually wouldn't begrudge them winning it this year because they would deserve it.

Grand i dont like there manager and Sturridge is a smug arrogant glory hunter but this season they have played some great football.

As many have mentioned though its not really the team its there fans.

Ireland and Dublin is bloody full of Liverpool fans and ive come across many good ones who are just there to enjoy it like anyone else but and heres the BIG BUT......... There are a portion of total yokes who follow Liverpool and believe me you hear them before you see them.

Loud mouth over the top tools who only have an interest in starting **** with rival fans half of them id imagine know nothing else about football other then ''Uhhh Stevie G's a legend and Suarez is an animal''

Before anyone comes out with it its not bitterness because ive been there to see Blackburn Arsenal Chelsea and City win the league and i dont love there fans but ive had plenty of laugh and banter with them in the past. They win games and titles but tend to just look after there own interests and not mind others.

Its no shock that the ones who always got me going where Liverpool fans.

If they win the league they will deserve it and fair play but ffs god help everyone else having to listen to pure ****e for a long time to come.

No, your post didn't come across as bitter at all!

Utopia Parkway

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

The country is full of Liverpool fans as well as United fans but theres plenty of other rival clubs fans around to. Its just the fact ''they'' tend to stand out a lot more then the rest. You could have one Liverpool fan sitting in a pub watching a United and Chelsea match and guess whos gonna start mouthing off and slagging people when the goals start going in.....

The United fan obviously. Duh.

murpho999

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

The country is full of Liverpool fans as well as United fans but theres plenty of other rival clubs fans around to. Its just the fact ''they'' tend to stand out a lot more then the rest. You could have one Liverpool fan sitting in a pub watching a United and Chelsea match and guess whos gonna start mouthing off and slagging people when the goals start going in.....

Eh....that's called rivalry.....Liverpool and Utd is the biggest and most passionate.
You could hardly expect each set of fans to enjoy their rivals fortunes and not laugh at their misfortunes.

How Soon Is Now

niallo27 wrote: »

Sturridge come across as a real nice bloke who seems to love just playing football. He always gives his shirt to some young fella home or away.

He could do with passing to a team mate every now and again for starters.

That solo run straight into Joe Hart in the city match could of seriously cost Liverpool if city took one or two of there chances. At that stage in the game you do whats best for the team not look for glory yourself.

As much as i hate to admit it its part of the reason id be quietly happy for Steven Gerrard to finally win the league. He deserves it more then any other player whos yet to win it does.

How Soon Is Now

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

The country is full of Liverpool fans as well as United fans but theres plenty of other rival clubs fans around to. Its just the fact ''they'' tend to stand out a lot more then the rest. You could have one Liverpool fan sitting in a pub watching a United and Chelsea match and guess whos gonna start mouthing off and slagging people when the goals start going in.....

Surely if he's on his own you all could throw him out and then write a strongly worded letter to your local councillor?

How Soon Is Now

murpho999 wrote: »

Eh....that's called rivalry.....Liverpool and Utd is the biggest and most passionate.
You could hardly expect each set of fans to enjoy their rivals fortunes and not laugh at their misfortunes.

There rivalry and then theres just looking to cause hassle its different and its fairly obvious most of the time.

How Soon Is Now

murpho999 wrote: »

No, your post didn't come across as bitter at all!

The above is why i mentioned it.....

If i was bitter i wouldnt be saying Liverpool will deserve to win the league if they do.

The fact is i just dont want them to because ill be listening and putting up with all kinds of bollox from so many of there fans i have to be around and have the pleasure of knowing. It wont be just banter etc either.

NukaCola

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

There are a portion of total yokes who follow Liverpool and believe me you hear them before you see them.

Loud mouth over the top tools who only have an interest in starting **** with rival fans half of them id imagine know nothing else about football

You could be describing every single fan base anywhere in world football with this.

A Dub in Glasgo

I voted No as my car got broken into 20 minutes after arriving in Liverpool to do a nightshift with work and the chances are the fecker was a Liverpool fan

How Soon Is Now

NukaCola wrote: »

You could be describing every single fan base anywhere in world football with this.

But im not im talking about your average Liverpool fan :P.

Look like i said if they win they win i hope there proper fans enjoy it cause they have been waiting a long time now.

But i can just picture the ****e the other big section of tools will come out with and even if they where to never win another thing again everyone will be reminded of this season until where all long and dead.

Soft Falling Rain

NukaCola wrote: »

Its turned into an accountancy thread. Great.......

Once net spend was mentioned the thread was facked tbh. The wrong, unwelcome, kind of nostalgia. :pac:

murpho999

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

There rivalry and then theres just looking to cause hassle its different and its fairly obvious most of the time.

It's not wanting to cause hassle it's because they simply don't like each other.

Liverpool were kings in the 70's and 80's whilst Utd fought stuff like relegation etc.
Liverpool declined and Utd took over.

Twenty years later it's being reversed and you dont expect Liverpool fans to make hay of that after hurting for so long? Do you think Utd fans didn't at the end of 26 barren years?
Of course you don't like it but neither have Liverpool fans over the last 24 years.

It's arguably the biggest rivalry in world sport and rivalry Utd have with Arsenal and Chelsea fails in comparison and that's why you don't see the same intensity.

How Soon Is Now

murpho999 wrote: »

It's not wanting to cause hassle it's because they simply don't like each other.

Liverpool were kings in the 70's and 80's whilst Utd fought stuff like relegation etc.
Liverpool declined and Utd took over.

Twenty years later it's being reversed and you dont expect Liverpool fans to make hay of that after hurting for so long? Do you think Utd fans didn't at the end of 26 barren years?
Of course you don't like it but neither have Liverpool fans over the last 24 years.

It's arguably the biggest rivalry in world sport and rivalry Utd have with Arsenal and Chelsea fails in comparison and that's why you don't see the same intensity.

Fair enough but you know what the funny thing is most of ones im talking about will have no memory of that period of time for many different reasons.

There are loads of decent liverpool fans of all ages but and i keep repeating myself here they tend to be much harder to find.