Why do you want/ not want children?

Neyite

kylith wrote: »

I'm finding this on my mind a lot at the moment. I want to start trying for a family in a few months time. Himself wants children 'at some point' and doesn't seem to understand my rush; he's not ready, he doesn't know when he'll be ready, and he doesn't understand that even though I'm not ready either I don't have the luxury of waiting until I am. AFAICT most of the men I know are the same as him, they act the same now as when I met them 15 years ago in college. It's kind of scary because it seems that all the men in my age group who want to get married and have kids have already done it so that even if I left OH and tried again I'd run into the same problem again. What's really annoying is that I've always been open and upfront about my desire for a family.

Maybe we should start going for men 10 years our senior in the hope that they'll have matured and be ready to settle down.

I asked my guy how many kids he thought he'd like in the future, like yours, he had allllll the time in the world in his head. I worked out a potential time-line with a cutoff of 40 years of age, allowing for the 40 weeks of pregnancy, the average year to conceive, 6 months of breastfeeding before another pregnancy and allowing for the fact 1 in 4 pregnancies result in miscarriage. I was already 33, nearly 34 so quickly 'used up' my 34-40 years in a timescale.

It got him thinking, and about a week later he came back to me and said he was ready to start our family. Some guys don't have a concept of the potential time-scale required.

kylith

Neyite wrote: »

I asked my guy how many kids he thought he'd like in the future, like yours, he had allllll the time in the world in his head. I worked out a potential time-line with a cutoff of 40 years of age, allowing for the 40 weeks of pregnancy, the average year to conceive, 6 months of breastfeeding before another pregnancy and allowing for the fact 1 in 4 pregnancies result in miscarriage. I was already 33, nearly 34 so quickly 'used up' my 34-40 years in a timescale.

It got him thinking, and about a week later he came back to me and said he was ready to start our family. Some guys don't have a concept of the potential time-scale required.

I guess that's what I'll have to do. I'm 32 in a couple of months and have been diagnosed with PCOS and my doctor told me that, basically, it could take me a week to get pregnant, or six months, or I could need help. I told him that I wanted 2 kids by the time I'm 35, but I don't know whether he assumes that he'll be able to push it back until I'm 35, or if he thinks it'll be a case of start trying at 33, get pregnant immediately, have a baby, and get pregnant again pretty much immediately.

Tranceypoo

green_screen wrote: »

There's one thing I find odd, with me. A lot of people (my oh included) who don't want kids seem indifferent to them, which is grand.

But I adore kids. I think they're adorable, even when having tantrums. I love looking after my friends' kids, and really enjoy being around kids.

Is anyone else like that? Loves kids, loves being around them, loves looking after them, but never wants their own? My bf thinks it's really odd that I love kids, even though the thought of having one fills me with dread.

I can go one better and be really specific, I don't want kids, have no urges or maternal instincts at the grand old age of 40+ and married and with mst of my friends having kids so I know the realities BUT little kids who wear glasses and little kids with DS absolutely melt my heart, I'm drawn to them I want to hug them and sometimes I fill up when I see them. What's that about??!!

ivytwine

Tranceypoo wrote: »

I can go one better and be really specific, I don't want kids, have no urges or maternal instincts at the grand old age of 40+ and married and with mst of my friends having kids so I know the realities BUT little kids who wear glasses and little kids with DS absolutely melt my heart, I'm drawn to them I want to hug them and sometimes I fill up when I see them. What's that about??!!

I get a version of that. I want kids to read stories to and take to the library. If I have kids and they hate books, I think I'll disown them.

Jackal756

It makes my blood boil when people list having someone to look after them as a reason for having kids
You choose to have kids no child asks to be born or to be saddled with looking after parents and be prevented from living their own lives all it does is cause resentment let your kid live their own life and make your own provisions for your old age
It's not their responsibility

Naid23

the thought of having kids absolutely terrifies me - I normally get funny looks when i tell people that the whole pregnancy thing really freaks me out. So while a very small part of me would like kids at some stage - i just cant really see it happening but who knows, that could all change in a few years.

pwurple

Jackal756 wrote: »

It makes my blood boil when people list having someone to look after them as a reason for having kids
You choose to have kids no child asks to be born or to be saddled with looking after parents and be prevented from living their own lives all it does is cause resentment let your kid live their own life and make your own provisions for your old age
It's not their responsibility

there's a big difference between what people mean by being looked after I'd say. I'd like to think my children would be someone I could call for a lift to the hospital if I fall down the stairs in my 80's. That's about the extent of it. As soon as I can't look after myself, chuck me in a home (or if i can afford it, get me a nice friendly butler/home help).

Narsil

Have never wanted children. I'm 31 now and feelings have never changed. I haven't got a maternal bone in my body and have no interest whatsoever in any children (including nieces, nephew etc). Now puppies and kittens, they make me squee! Might sound awful to some, but I just have no liking for being around children. I might also point out that I am always happy for those who want to have kids and do as I'm all for getting what you want in life.

It is more taboo to not want to have children in Ireland than being atheist from what I see (I'm also atheist).I get weird looks and have had some people (who I've known for years) practically blank me once I mention to them I don't want kids. I just don't get that as I'm still the same person they first met and liked, but all of a sudden they don't want to interact with me because I don't want to have children I have also seen people, who were previously disliked for their attitude in social situations, suddenly have all forgiven and become darlings of social occasions just because they've had children

Many social situations now do include children (visiting friends/family, weddings etc) and I have noticed that some don't want to talk to me anymore as all they want to discuss is kids and that obviously doesn't include me. It does make me feel ostracised and sometimes that is upsetting, but I won't change my mind just to feel more included. I am lucky though that my fiance is happy to never have kids and that gives me some comfort that I'm not a horrible person!

I don't personally understand why some people don't enjoy being around animals, but I'm certainly not going to make them feel bad for it or stop being friends with them/talk to them, so I just cannot understand why people do this to me in regards to having kids. I just want to be treated as 'me' and not as someone who 'doesn't have kids'.

Semi rant over, thanks for reading!

Oops....also my specific reasons for not having kids are:
- Don't enjoy being around kids
- Want to spend my money saving to travel
- Like my free time
- Like peace and quiet
- Love relaxing at weekends, including lying-in

DoozerT6

Is it weird to be 40 this year, childless, and still not be sure how you feel about having children?

I guess the crux of this is my total lack of relationship experience - I have never been in love with someone, or had anybody in love with me, so I guess I have never built up the closeness (I imagine) I should feel with a guy to consider them as a father to my children. So here I am, almost 40 and still clueless as to whether or not I want children (leaving out the fact that I may have trouble conceiving in my 40's if I want them).

Did you ladies know when you were single that you DEFINITELY wanted children in the future, or was it a case of meeting The Right Guy and deciding once you were secure in your feelings for each other that that's where the relationship was heading?

pwurple

Narsil wrote: »

Might sound awful to some, but I just have no liking for being around children.

I just find it a little weird to have assigned all children to the one pile. I mean... How can you possibly know them all? Some are little gits, and some are awesome people. Not liking ALL children to me is as bizaar as someone saying they don't like any ginger-haired people, or don't like being around anyone from ecuador. It's just fairly random. Humans are not all the same as eachother.

Neyite

DoozerT6 wrote: »

Did you ladies know when you were single that you DEFINITELY wanted children in the future, or was it a case of meeting The Right Guy and deciding once you were secure in your feelings for each other that that's where the relationship was heading?

It was a little bit of both for me. I always knew I wanted children, and even through one disaster of a relationship, I was broody, but I was absolutely NOT tempted to have a baby that was his. In fact, when we had a nasty break up, the stress delayed my periods and I was horrified that I might be pregnant.

But in the right relationship a few years later, we were pretty sloppy with birth control long before we officially decided to start trying for our family. While we may not have been able to say that we would stay together forever at that point, we both knew that if we had to co-parent as ex partners, that we could trust each other to be fair to the other and put our own feelings to one side and focus on what was best for that child we shared.

We are engaged now and have that baby (and hoping for more), and I hope to live out my days with him, but you never know what the future holds. I know though that we would still do our best to put our child(ren) first whatever our relationship status.

So I don't know if its important whether you are together or single while rearing a family, I don't particularly think so, its more important that you both are committed to that child, that neither of you would use the child to manipulate the other, that you would fully respect each other as parents.

Tigger99

Pwurple you might think that's weird, but that's the way some people feel. They don't like the dependence kids have on their parents, the noise, the mess, the unpredictability. I completely understand that. I don't feel like that about kids, but think it's a valid opinion.

username123

Narsil wrote: »

Might sound awful to some, but I just have no liking for being around children.

Yeah I totally get that. I try to go on adult holidays, I don't go to social events that children will be at, I avoid situations where there will be children, I only call to friends with children after the kids have gone to bed, I use my gym pool during the hours that exclude children etc....

Just no interest in being around them.

Narsil

pwurple wrote: »

I just find it a little weird to have assigned all children to the one pile. I mean... How can you possibly know them all? Some are little gits, and some are awesome people. Not liking ALL children to me is as bizaar as someone saying they don't like any ginger-haired people, or don't like being around anyone from ecuador. It's just fairly random. Humans are not all the same as eachother.

It's very different to hair colour/ethnicity. I'm not saying all children are not nice, some are very well behaved, I'm saying I don't personally enjoy being around them or interacting with them. I have zero interest in kids and, by extension, 'getting to know' any.

I would liken it more to some people not enjoying being around dogs, I love dogs but people are unique and if someone doesn't enjoy being around dogs I would never dare to make them feel weird about it or push my liking on them, or tell them they're odd for not liking dogs.

pwurple

Tigger99 wrote: »

Pwurple you might think that's weird, but that's the way some people feel. They don't like the dependence kids have on their parents, the noise, the mess, the unpredictability. I completely understand that. I don't feel like that about kids, but think it's a valid opinion.

That's the idea of having your own child, which is a big undertaking and makes sense... Totally different to just being around them. You can't go anywhere without some child being around. A walk, the shops, the beach, the bus.

There are people who don't like dogs, i have a friend who will cross the road to avoid. Is this the level of youth-repulsion we are talking about? At what age does the aversion end? 21, 18, 16?


And btw, "that's the way some people feel" is an expression which is one of my biggest pet peeves. It's used to justify racism, sexism, homophobia and general bigotry. It's not always valid by any means.

Narsil

Let me clarify:

I don't instantly hate every child I see in my line of vision! i just don't want to interact with them - I do not want to have to talk to children or play with them or coo over them, as I just don't care about them.

I just don't see why people take such offense that I have no interest in children. I don't get up in arms if people have no interest in my dog and I don't treat them any differently because they don't like something that I do. I would just prefer if people could accept my choice and respect me for it, not try and force the issue or treat me differently for it.

pwurple

Narsil wrote: »

Let me clarify:

I don't instantly hate every child I see in my line of vision! i just don't want to interact with them - I do not want to have to talk to children or play with them or coo over them, as I just don't care about them.

I just don't see why people take such offense that I have no interest in children. I don't get up in arms if people have no interest in my dog and I don't treat them any differently because they don't like something that I do. I would just prefer if people could accept my choice and respect me for it, not try and force the issue or treat me differently for it.

Hold on a second... children are not dogs, they are people. Same as gay people are people, black people are people, women and men are people, etc.

Let's try your phrase with an adjustment. I don't instantly hate every black person I see in my line of vision! I just don't want to interact with them - I do not want to have to talk to black people

See any issue? These are human beings, who inhabit the same space as yourself.

I have no issue with people not getting on with anyone they don't like, or their children. We don't all have to be friends by any stretch. Where I have a problem is if someone is prejudging because of age, skin colour, gender, sexual orientation or any other similar rubbish. It's just ridiculous.

I was a quiet, well behaved child, and I distinctly remember encountering the odd person who would visibly turn up their nose at my mere presence when my parents brought me places. It's hurtful, even to a child. I remember my parents taking me out with them to a nice restaurant in the city at about age 7 for some celebration, i felt so grown up! Nice dress on, hair done. Reading my own menu. A pair of women were being seated next to us, and I can remember plainly one of them looking at me, making eye contact with her friend, and asking to be seated elsewhere.

username123

Not wanting to be around children is absolutely nothing like not wanting to be around black people and to suggest so shows a complete lack of understanding of the point of view presented. It is not a valid comparison to make. No one is saying they discriminate against children, just some people dont like being around them - thats totally valid!

Not wanting to be around children or not liking being around children is comparable to not wanting to be around or not liking being around people who are football supporters.

I wouldnt go to a football supporters bar, or have any interest in hanging around with football supporters - no interest whatsoever. That doesnt mean I hate football supporters.

Why do you think travel agents and hotels offer adult only holidays or events are advertised as adult only? Being a child is a temporary state of affairs, its utter nonsense to compare it to race!

Malari

Babies and young children tend to have certain traits in common no matter what other personality traits they may have. They are often noisy, sticky, smelly, and attention-seeking. If someone in a restaurant doesn't want to sit next to a baby for that reason it's not discrimination, it's personal preference. A quietly sitting 7 year old wouldn't bother me, however.

If I see a stag or hen party go into a restaurant or pub I would also either leave or ask to be moved far, far away. That's not to say those individuals are not perfectly nice people, I just don't want the chances of being exposed to loud, brash, boisterous behaviour which are the traits they tend to have in common.

Narsil

pwurple wrote: »

Hold on a second... children are not dogs

Let's try your phrase with an adjustment. I don't instantly hate every black person I see in my line of vision! I just don't want to interact with them - I do not want to have to talk to black people

I don't understand why you are trying to liken my not wanting to interact with children with being a racist/bigot

Chattastrophe!

I have a kid, and while I like him (obviously!) I still wouldn't necessarily say I like babies/children in general.

Sure, they can look cute, sometimes, but the noisiness and bodily fluids puts me off. It's definitely different when it's your own, I can totally handle cleaning up my own baby's puke/pee/poo/cradle cap/snot/drool/etc, but wouldn't be so good with anyone else's baby.

And as they get older, I'm just not sure how to talk to them ... yes they're humans, and you don't want to be condescending or patronising, but at the same time they're only little and I'm never really sure what tone/type of conversation is age-appropriate for them. And their parents are usually there so it's all forced and awkward. Maybe I'll get better at it as my own son gets older!

Funny thing is, kids generally tend to love me!

So even if you have kids, it doesn't necessarily mean you have to be the sort of person who likes children in general. I think it's a perfectly reasonable way of thinking. I'd never judge anyone for not fawning over my son. I adore him, but I completely understand that not everyone will feel that way, and I don't expect them to!

meeeeh

I don't like old people. They smell.

lazygal

Some people here need serious in depth treatment for their childrenphobia.

Jackal756

lazygal wrote: »

Some people here need serious in depth treatment for their childrenphobia.

Personally I think it's better to admit to yourself that you don't want kids than to have a child that won't feel love from you

Malari

lazygal wrote: »

Some people here need serious in depth treatment for their childrenphobia.

But needing treatment suggests that there is something wrong with not wanting to interact with children in general, which there isn't.

lazygal

Jackal756 wrote: »

Personally I think it's better to admit to yourself that you don't want kids than to have a child that won't feel love from you

Personally I think there's a cohort of posters here who think every child is a badly behaved snot filled brat. Which isn't the case, of course. Personally I think they're a bit over the top with their vitriolic attitudes towards all children.

Chattastrophe!

lazygal wrote: »

Personally I think there's a cohort of posters here who think every child is a badly behaved snot filled brat. Which isn't the case, of course. Personally I think they're a bit over the top with their vitriolic attitudes towards all children.

I'm really not sensing that.

It's more like, like me, a lot of posters are apathetic when it comes to children.

Sure, I think every tiny thing my son does is amazing and magical and wonderful.

I don't want or expect anyone else to give a sh#t, tbh. Why would they?

You imply there's something fundamentally wrong with people who don't love all children. Tbh I think a person who says "I love kids" is quite naive.

username123

lazygal wrote: »

Personally I think there's a cohort of posters here who think every child is a badly behaved snot filled brat. Which isn't the case, of course. Personally I think they're a bit over the top with their vitriolic attitudes towards all children.

I'm not getting that at all. No interest does not equal vitriol.

I don't understand this attitude. Is it that you find other people's disinterest in children offensive? Why does it matter to you?

lazygal

username123 wrote: »

I'm not getting that at all. No interest does not equal vitriol.

I don't understand this attitude. Is it that you find other people's disinterest in children offensive? Why does it matter to you?

It's the really aggressive attitude to not wanting any interaction with children that I don't get. If you said this about any other groups I don't think you'd get away without being challenged on it.
I'm personally not mad on children, but I'm realistic enough to know that if I go outside the door they're part of life. There's certain groups of adults I'm not keen on but I'll just get on with interactions with them.

username123

lazygal wrote: »

It's the really aggressive attitude to not wanting any interaction with children that I don't get. If you said this about any other groups I don't think you'd get away without being challenged on it.
I'm personally not mad on children, but I'm realistic enough to know that if I go outside the door they're part of life. There's certain groups of adults I'm not keen on but I'll just get on with interactions with them.

What's aggressive about it? There's no need to over exaggerate what's been said or tones used. No one said they don't go outside the door in case they bump into children. No one is being aggressive.

Why do you think adult only holidays, hotels, events etc have a market?

Why does it matter to you ? I'm delighted for you you like children, go you! But I don't, so what? I'm not infringing on your right to like being with children or to have them.

Malari

I really don't see anyone with a "really aggressive attitude". Even some with kids are saying they are not fond of other people's, so it's certainly not an anti-child brigade or anything. And of course there are children around everywhere, that's not a issue, but if someone wants to have a nice dinner I see no reason not to choose a table that isn't next to a toddler or baby. Some parents (and I have experienced this more than once) see no problem with their child virtually begging at the neighbours' tables and I'd rather not put myself in that position. I prefer going to the cinema at a time when I know it won't be full of kids either, because of the noise, disruption, etc.

Having said that, I have several friends with children and I have no problem interacting with them when it's necessary. If you think that's vitriolic Lazygal, you might have a pretty low tolerance for it?

Susie564

This thread has taken an odd turn!

I've been reading it with interest as like some of the other posters I don't have that much interest in children. I'm 33 and single but have no great desire to have children. When I answer no to the "don't you want to have children?" question I get that funny look that says - but you're female, in your thirties, you MUST want children!:D It's so great to know I'm not the only one!! I avoid kids parties if I can, and like others have posted would prefer not to be seated next to children in restaurants/cinema etc., but no one has yet accused me of being similar to a racist/bigot!

I often wonder if I am to meet the man of my dreams :rolleyes: maybe I might want to have a family, so who knows. I also do think though that because I don't have that desire to have children maybe I'd make a crap mum. I have 4 niblings who I love but I don't coo over them or other babies, it's just not me. I spend time with them (some, not a lot) and I'm a good auntie. I'm pretty sure they love me too. It drives me mad when someone has a kid and all of a sudden that's all they think about and talk about. One of my sisters is like that the other one isn't. And I have friends who are both ways too - so it's not like if you have a kid you have to do this. If it is then I definitely don't want to have any - I think it would drive me nuts :eek:

Addle

The last few posts are the reason why I never (identifiably) answer the question 'do you want kids?'.
If you say yes and don't have them, some people will forever feel sorry for you.
If you say no, some people think there's something wrong with you!

meeeeh

lazygal wrote: »

It's the really aggressive attitude to not wanting any interaction with children that I don't get. If you said this about any other groups I don't think you'd get away without being challenged on it.

Except the old people.

Judging by this thread I was really blind to the plight of people being chased by crazed parents throwing their kids at them to kiss them, they hear them crying at parties, people talk about their kids and, oh the horror, they even talk to other parents. And the restaurants, the restaurants!!! There is not a child free McDonald's in the country. How is one supposed to enjoy the gourmet food they serve?

Seriously. You don't want children. Fine. Almost every 22 year old doesn't and then the percentage falls through the decades but it is still significant amount. Child free people are not some endangered species, far more than half of my friends in thirties don't have kids and I don't know if they ever will. Surprisingly enough they are still my friends and I don't throw my precious little darlings at them to kiss them or puke on them at every opportunity. We even manage to go out without kids and find restaurants that serve grown up food and are 90% of the time child free. And we also manage to talk about subjects such as politics, economy, movies, even art. Not kittens though, none of my friends have cats so there has to be something wrong with them.

Malari

meeeeh wrote: »

Except the old people.

Judging by this thread I was really blind to the plight of people being chased by crazed parents throwing their kids at them to kiss them, they hear them crying at parties, people talk about their kids and, oh the horror, they even talk to other parents. And the restaurants, the restaurants!!! There is not a child free McDonald's in the country. How is one supposed to enjoy the gourmet food they serve?

Seriously. You don't want children. Fine. Almost every 22 year old doesn't and then the percentage falls through the decades but it is still significant amount. Child free people are not some endangered species, far more than half of my friends in thirties don't have kids and I don't know if they ever will. Surprisingly enough they are still my friends and I don't throw my precious little darlings at them to kiss them or puke on them at every opportunity. We even manage to go out without kids and find restaurants that serve grown up food and are 90% of the time child free. And we also manage to talk about subjects such as politics, economy, movies, even art. Not kittens though, none of my friends have cats so there has to be something wrong with them.

I'm not seeing a prevalence of the attitude you are parodying on this thread at all.

meeeeh

Malari wrote: »

I'm not seeing a prevalence of the attitude you are parodying on this thread at all.

So do you want quotes from those who discovered that they are not the only person on the planet who doesn't want kids after reading this thread? From those who were slobbered all over by toddlers dumped on them by ignorant parents? From those who eat in McDonald's? Or just from those who think that love for kittens, babies and carrots is all the same (not including vegetables would be bigoted)?

username123

I'm kinda baffled by the odd overly defensive judgemental attitudes on display.

bronte

username123 wrote: »

I'm kinda baffled by the odd overly defensive judgemental attitudes on display.

Happens in every thread CF gets mentioned. They get totally derailed. Always by the same posters too.

username123

bronte wrote: »

Happens in every thread CF gets mentioned. They get totally derailed. Always by the same posters too.

Really? Ah feck, if I'd known that I'd never have bothered posting.

lazygal

username123 wrote: »

I'm kinda baffled by the odd overly defensive judgemental attitudes on display.

Me too. I must hang out with some very unusual parents. And childfree people.

bronte

username123 wrote: »

Really? Ah feck, if I'd known that I'd never have bothered posting.

There's always reddit!

username123

lazygal wrote: »

Me too. I must hang out with some very unusual parents. And childfree people.

If the carry on here is reflective of what parenting does to a person, well, I'll just add it to my list of reasons!!

Sauve

Mod

The sniping and off-topic posting stops here. Please and thank you.

lazygal

username123 wrote: »

If the carry on here is reflective of what parenting does to a person, well, I'll just add it to my list of reasons!!

What carry on? What does parenting do to a person? I can't say I've changed who I am that much because I've procreated.

lubie76

lazygal wrote: »

It's the really aggressive attitude to not wanting any interaction with children that I don't get. If you said this about any other groups I don't think you'd get away without being challenged on it.
I'm personally not mad on children, but I'm realistic enough to know that if I go outside the door they're part of life. There's certain groups of adults I'm not keen on but I'll just get on with interactions with them.

Lazygal. Children are just small humans and so cannot be compared to an ethnic minority group. I don't think that people are saying that they dislike all children just that they don't really identify with them as they have nothing in common with them and as such don't enjoy time in their company .. It's nothing personal against every child and people should make their own choices about who they give their time to.

I love my nieces and nephews but wouldn't be bothered with any other kids including friends children but wouldn't say I dislike them more that I have no interest in them.

eviltwin

I can kinda see what Lazygal is trying to say. Its okay to say you don't like kids, if you were to say however that you hate being around the elderly for instance it would be considered rude. There is more of an acceptance that children are annoying even though any human regardless of age has the capacity to be a pain.

I can understand though people who don't want to be around children, I personally only spend time with other children to facilitate my son, I wouldn't choose to be around them if I could avoid it. Most kids are great and I've never encountered the brats that some people describe but they can be a bit much sometimes. Its the things that make kids a great, interesting and unique part of the human race that can also make them highly irritating.

WarOnDrugs78

Look up "This Be The Verse" by Philip Larkin on YouTube. It sums up my opinion on this debate.

username123

eviltwin wrote: »

I can kinda see what Lazygal is trying to say. Its okay to say you don't like kids, if you were to say however that you hate being around the elderly for instance it would be considered rude. There is more of an acceptance that children are annoying even though any human regardless of age has the capacity to be a pain.

By the same token that I wouldn't book a child friendly holiday though, I also wouldn't book a OAPs holiday. I don't think there is anything wrong with that? I just wouldn't be into what's on offer for either group.

While I understand that some posters don't agree with the perspective that some of us have no interest in being around children, I cannot agree that (a) that implies there is something wrong with some of us and (b) that it is "vitriolic" to have such a view.

It is interesting that the points of view on this thread range from wanting and really liking being around children through liking your own through not wanting to have any but not minding being around them through to not wanting to have or be around them, and the only view that is drawing disrespect, judgemental attitudes and defensive responses is the view of not wanting to have or be around children.

Why is that?

Is it reflective of society, the view that somehow something is wrong with you if you are female and not interested in children? I'd hoped we had matured more as a society tbh.

If I posted some of the posts here but directed them at those who want and like children I'd be red carded. Particularly the parody of attitudes that were not even on display.

meeeeh

eviltwin wrote: »

I can kinda see what Lazygal is trying to say. Its okay to say you don't like kids, if you were to say however that you hate being around the elderly for instance it would be considered rude. There is more of an acceptance that children are annoying even though any human regardless of age has the capacity to be a pain.

I can understand though people who don't want to be around children, I personally only spend time with other children to facilitate my son, I wouldn't choose to be around them if I could avoid it. Most kids are great and I've never encountered the brats that some people describe but they can be a bit much sometimes. Its the things that make kids a great, interesting and unique part of the human race that can also make them highly irritating.

Just to make it clear that statement about old people was a joke.

I actually completely understand why people don't like children. I think more accurate description would be don't like being around children because you can't like or not like something if you don't know it. (But that is more semantics). But the thing is before I had my own I held one baby in my arms. I didn't even realise that child menus exist or that Tesco sell kid clothes. I just don't buy the whole hoopla how much discomfort other people's children cause. And I also don't appreciate being told how miserable I am supposed to be because I have kids and how much nuisance people with kids are supposed to be to their childfree friends. All that is in my opinion greatly exaggerated. I think people often blame kids for putting distance between them and their friends without realising that their friends are at different stage of life anyway and that they will either have to adapt or find friends at the similar stage of life.

sambuka41

meeeeh wrote: »

I actually completely understand why people don't like children. I think more accurate description would be don't like being around children because you can't like or not like something if you don't know it.

I don't think you have listened to what has been said, you are making assumptions there. Most people on this thread who have said that they do not want to have kids, know well what is involved and have made an INFORMED decision not to have any. Respect it.

meeeeh wrote: »

I just don't buy the whole hoopla how much discomfort other people's children cause.

And you don't have to, but you can at least respect that some of us here are expressing our opinions and experiences, believe them or don't.

meeeeh wrote: »

And I also don't appreciate being told how miserable I am supposed to be because I have kids and how much nuisance people with kids are supposed to be to their childfree friends. All that is in my opinion greatly exaggerated.

I don't think anyone said YOU personally were miserable, you are clearly not miserable with kids, and fair play to you. But I agree with the observation of the others who have noted that some of their friends with children are not happy, I have seen it myself, but I also have friends who are very happy with their families.