Why do you want/ not want children?

JumpShivers

Mixed feelings...

Firstly, I hate the whole argument that ' your life isn't complete until you have children of your own'.... Just that argument with the typical husband/perfect kids/house/family life.

Myself, on one hand.. I enjoy my freedom too much. I've seen and heard people calling it 'selfish' that a person wouldn't want children for their own gain... But oh well. I enjoy the freedom of kicking back and having a glass of wine, a random meal out or a night to the cinema. Having a bit more money that could go on myself/husband/house/treats.

I love babies, kids.... Maybe. I just don't know whether I'd really enjoy 18 years of raising a few kids, then being too old to enjoy myself again. Why would one want a child, besides the maternal feelings? I don't see any draw to it.
If it happened accidentally, then sure yeah, it could possibly become the best accident.... But realistically, I just don't really *atm* have any want for a child....

diveout

Semele wrote: »

I've been following this thread with interest. I'm not very maternal and hate the thought of having to devote so much of my time to someone else, potentially losing sight of myself and my goals in the process. Yet I'm not averse to the idea of having older children-I can almost picture myself as an older woman with independent adult children more easily than I can picture myself anytime with a baby!

Part of what repels me is the idea of how, once you have a child, your identity becomes that of a mother, first and foremost, and that this is the role that society sees as your most valuable. While I would undoubtedly love any child that I did have, I would resent the idea that my greatest achievement would become something that most people can and will do, rather than a more hard-earned accomplishment that defines me more as a person. Like career etc would automatically have to take second place, despite that being something I've worked for and wanted for years.

Thinking about it more, I think our society is so responsible for the cult of motherhood that I find so repellant. There is a horrible focus on defining women by their marital and maternal status, and of dictating how they should feel about those things. This seems like a relatively recent development to me and I'd love to find out more about its evolution. I'm a huge reader, and what strikes me about a lot of classic literature (Tolstoy, James etc) is that in those books the great romantic lead characters are so often mothers, yet this is barely mentioned and is certainly not something that defines them either to themselves or others. There is instead a sense that a woman who has been married and had children has increased wisdom, sexuality and worldliness in comparison to the younger characters, who are portrayed as innocent, virginal and rather boring in comparison! Contrast this to mainstream media representation today, where sexuality and excitement are almost exclusively the domain of young women and where there is a Madonna-like fetishisation of the mother who lives entirely for and through her children. I think it is participating in this view of motherhood that I reject, rather than the idea of motherhood itself.

Now I know those books reflect a time where parenting (for the richer classes anyway) was quite distant and uninvolved (not to mention reproductive choice a non-entity) and I don't suggest that's a good model of child-rearing for a moment...but I think somewhere along the way we as a society have swung so far in the other direction that pregnancy and motherhood have gone from being fairly unremarkable events, to being these identity-defining choices. If, through equal parental leave, great affordable childcare and involvement of the wider family (grandparents etc), there was a way to have children and yet not sacrifice my life to the role of Mother, I would be much more inclined to do so in future. It's not that I don't want children, it's that I like me and my life. Can the two co-exist?!

This is exactly it.

In fact, it's not the kids that bother me, it's the other adults that bother me once i have a child.

I think its a cultural pathology tbh. But you always had it in Catholic places with the virgin Mary being so adulated.

mariaalice

Semele wrote: »

I've been following this thread with interest. I'm not very maternal and hate the thought of having to devote so much of my time to someone else, potentially losing sight of myself and my goals in the process. Yet I'm not averse to the idea of having older children-I can almost picture myself as an older woman with independent adult children more easily than I can picture myself anytime with a baby!

Part of what repels me is the idea of how, once you have a child, your identity becomes that of a mother, first and foremost, and that this is the role that society sees as your most valuable. While I would undoubtedly love any child that I did have, I would resent the idea that my greatest achievement would become something that most people can and will do, rather than a more hard-earned accomplishment that defines me more as a person. Like career etc would automatically have to take second place, despite that being something I've worked for and wanted for years.

Thinking about it more, I think our society is so responsible for the cult of motherhood that I find so repellant. There is a horrible focus on defining women by their marital and maternal status, and of dictating how they should feel about those things. This seems like a relatively recent development to me and I'd love to find out more about its evolution. I'm a huge reader, and what strikes me about a lot of classic literature (Tolstoy, James etc) is that in those books the great romantic lead characters are so often mothers, yet this is barely mentioned and is certainly not something that defines them either to themselves or others. There is instead a sense that a woman who has been married and had children has increased wisdom, sexuality and worldliness in comparison to the younger characters, who are portrayed as innocent, virginal and rather boring in comparison! Contrast this to mainstream media representation today, where sexuality and excitement are almost exclusively the domain of young women and where there is a Madonna-like fetishisation of the mother who lives entirely for and through her children. I think it is participating in this view of motherhood that I reject, rather than the idea of motherhood itself.

Now I know those books reflect a time where parenting (for the richer classes anyway) was quite distant and uninvolved (not to mention reproductive choice a non-entity) and I don't suggest that's a good model of child-rearing for a moment...but I think somewhere along the way we as a society have swung so far in the other direction that pregnancy and motherhood have gone from being fairly unremarkable events, to being these identity-defining choices. If, through equal parental leave, great affordable childcare and involvement of the wider family (grandparents etc), there was a way to have children and yet not sacrifice my life to the role of Mother, I would be much more inclined to do so in future. It's not that I don't want children, it's that I like me and my life. Can the two co-exist?!

That's an excellent post, however if you step outside of what is the cultural expectation of parenting in our society you will be judged for it.

I have a friend who when her children where small openly admitted that she put the children to bed early so she and her husband could have time alone together, when the children were older they built on a sort of sunroom/conservatory and at the weekends the children were encouraged not to come in to it because she and her husband like to spend time together reading the newspapers with out the children, they often give the children dinner first and then have their dinner afterwards again so they can have time without the children. They have a great relationship with their children but the way they do it is judged a lot, comment such as why have children If you what to get away form them and so on. I think parenting had become a mind field in out society and a touch stone for every thing that is wrong in society...every problem is blamed on parenting.

Das Kitty

I love that line. "Why have children if you're just going to XYZ...?"

Yes, my kids' needs come ahead of mine. But our wants are on equal footing, IMO.

I also believe that nourishing your relationship with your partner is one of the most important things you can do for your children (and yourselves).

IvyTheTerrible

mariaalice wrote: »

That's an excellent post, however if you step outside of what is the cultural expectation of parenting in our society you will be judged for it.

I have a friend who when her children where small openly admitted that she put the children to bed early so she and her husband could have time alone together, when the children were older they built on a sort of sunroom/conservatory and at the weekends the children were encouraged not to come in to it because she and her husband like to spend time together reading the newspapers with out the children, they often give the children dinner first and then have their dinner afterwards again so they can have time without the children. They have a great relationship with their children but the way they do it is judged a lot, comment such as why have children If you what to get away form them and so on. I think parenting had become a mind field in out society and a touch stone for every thing that is wrong in society...every problem is blamed on parenting.

My son goes to sleep early, we didn't train him it's just how he is. It's so lovely to have 3 or 4 hours of our own time in the evenings. My nephew (not much older than my son) takes hours to go to bed, his parents' evenings just completely revolve around the struggle to get him to sleep, it seems very stressful.

mariaalice

The media and advertisement are a great reflection on where society is at on an issue so with parenting look at a certain ads for follow on milk ( a product that was not around when my children were small ) anyway the ad is a clear explanation of how aspirational parenting has become...a toddler is looking in to a thank of fish or she is dancing and guess what she is going to grown up to be a marine biologist or a ballet dancer!!!!!, both very aspirational careers and its all down to you giving them follow on milk.

eviltwin

Das Kitty wrote: »

I love that line. "Why have children if you're just going to XYZ...?"

Yes, my kids' needs come ahead of mine. But our wants are on equal footing, IMO.

I also believe that nourishing your relationship with your partner is one of the most important things you can do for your children (and yourselves).

Exactly, your kids will grow up and make their own lives, you'll be hopefully with your other half forever. I see couple time and me time as an investment in the family.

ash23

I was out for dinner with himself the other night. Nothing too posh, just a nice bar/restaurant.

We were both sans child for the night. It was about 8.30pm and a family next to us had a small toddler who was clearly wrecked tired and wailing his head off. Himself texted me across the table "best contraceptive ever!!!" and I had to say I agreed.

Watching the couple trying to juggle the weary crying toddler, getting daggers from the table of young lads next to them, getting "helpful advice" from the old dears the other side of them and trying to eat while the child cried and covered them in snot....I will admit, it brought me right back to those days and I was quite happy to be sitting pretty with my glass of wine enjoying my meal with both hands free!

Penny Dreadful

I don't think I can articulate fully why I want to have children - its something very basic and primal in me to a large extent. I am currently 20 weeks pregnant and delighted to be. Myself and my husband had been TTC for almost a year before I fell pregnant.
I like children a lot, not so much tiny babies (although I do think they are cute in that tiny baby way) but more so when their personalities start to shine through and they are more interactive.
I like to see them grow up and develop into nice people that will make a positive contribution to society - my nieces and nephews are growing up now (aged from 12-7) and they are lot of fun, they certainly have their moments too! but over all they are good company and I think its a real privilage to be a positive part of their lives.
I was very close to some of my aunts and uncles growing up and they really did have a big influence on my life in a positive way and I think I am very lucky to have had that.
I ended a 10 year relationship because the man I was with at the time admitted that he didn't want to have children ever.
Everyone has a choice as to whether or not they have children and I have absolutely no issue with people exercising that choice. I do think that if you opt to have them you need to be willing to make the changes and adjustments to your life that this requires. I'm lucky in that I have had a lot of fun over the years, gone on great holidays, had my whimsical purchases and my cool car (that I now have to change for something more practical) and don't feel like I'm missing out on anything by having children at this stage.

meeeeh

ash23 wrote: »

I was out for dinner with himself the other night. Nothing too posh, just a nice bar/restaurant.

We were both sans child for the night. It was about 8.30pm and a family next to us had a small toddler who was clearly wrecked tired and wailing his head off. Himself texted me across the table "best contraceptive ever!!!" and I had to say I agreed.

Watching the couple trying to juggle the weary crying toddler, getting daggers from the table of young lads next to them, getting "helpful advice" from the old dears the other side of them and trying to eat while the child cried and covered them in snot....I will admit, it brought me right back to those days and I was quite happy to be sitting pretty with my glass of wine enjoying my meal with both hands free!

I don't mind taking kids out for a meal in the middle of the day but I never understood why at night. Unless you are in the middle of travelling and need to stop for some food I don't know why would you bring that upon yourself. I'm probably luckier than most because kids can spend the night with one or the other set of grandparents. We don't do it that often but we do have kid free evenings out or even weekend breaks.

I realise not every body can do what we can but I also think sometimes parents are a bit too protective or just simply afraid to ask. We visited my parents when our first was six months old. We left the son with my parents and went to a wedding in Florence for four days. On the other habd my brother first asked my mum to take his son when he was 10 months for couple hours. And I think my mum would probably like to have him a bit more often. Speaking of my brother him and sil took the little one to dominicsn Republic for couple of weeks and did some serious travelling around. I don't have patience for such a long flightbut it really doesn't mean that more adventurous side to your life has to end when you have kids.

lazygal

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/11/mother-childfree-happy


For the childfree.

DM addict

This thread is really interesting, and I admire the honesty of the posters. I think one of the most important things that parents can do is admit that it's not all perfect, or easy - and that although you will always love your children, that doesn't mean that you always want them around.

I do want kids. I work in childcare and I love being around kids. I feel like I understand children better than I do most grown-ups. Been married for (nearly) two years now, and probably going to start trying within the next 18 months, although that's still up for debate between ourselves.

When I was younger, having kids wasn't necessarily something I'd wanted - certainly not when I was a teenager. But I love working with kids, and being around them - and I think myself and himself could be good parents - not great parents, and not all the time - but good enough. And it's something we both want.

I do wonder sometimes about some of my friends, who assume that after getting married you'll be reproducing within a year. I've known people who've gone that route, and they don't seem hugely excited about having a child so much as having a baby to dress/buy toys for. But then, everyone is different.

Semele

lazygal wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/11/mother-childfree-happy


For the childfree.

Great article, thanks Lazygal! I'd argue that it's not just of interest to the child free though- she touches on the lack of support for mothers in the article. I like how she points out the fundamental disconnect in a society where millions are spent in sentimental tributes to motherhood ( Mother's Day etc) and yet there is so little financial and legal support for families where it would really make a difference. Mothers are sentimentalised and yet devalued as people.

I think it's unfortunate that this debate so easily becomes a childfree versus parents issue ( I am guilty of this myself!). Surely we are all on the same side- that of wanting true, unjudged, supported, CHOICE in our decisions as to whether or not to have children? Even though I'm fairly sure I don't want them, I'm fully in support of legislation and benefits that support women who do. It's a larger feminist issue to me, rather than a children-or-no-children one.

Demonique

1) I can't stand high pitched noises and this includes the shrieks that emit from small children
2) The same sensory problems I have that affect my hearing also effect my sense of smell, smells affect me a lot more than other people, I can't stand the smell of nappies
3) They are expensive, I have no desire to waste money raising a child
4) Family members would stick their noses where they're not wanted in regards to the rearing of said child, they stick their noses where it's not wanted enough already

LegacyUser

I will be 27 this year. In a 10 year relationship and still don't want kids. (or marriage)
I have many reasons.
I mainly hate the responsibility associated with it all. The way I would always have a little child to consider before every life decision. I love my peace and quiet at home and relaxation time. I appreciate being able to go anywhere at he drop of a hat, or do whatever I feel like on a whim.

I have young relatives whom I love and enjoy, but at the same time after awhile I can feel myself feeling very drained and becoming a bit tense/stressed after maybe a whole day in their company. I feel like a release of pressure when I'm at home again. I hope that doesn't sound terrible, because it's not like they are bad kids. They are infact 99% of the time extremely well behaved and very pleasant fun kids that I absolutely adore, I just find kids very tiring like they zap all my zest from me or something?

I am also a mature student with a couple more years to go so that is also my main focus right now. I hope to build myself a successful career in my field and everything is looking very promising so far regarding that. I am getting great grades and there are jobs in this field.

I have not yet travelled many places and would like to do so without kids.

My partner smokes weed and like many others enjoys too much drink at the weekend.(I rarely drink myself anymore) I've no problem with the smoking or I wouldn't still be there, but for some reason I wouldn't want to have kids in a home where weed was smoked daily or every weekend was a party. It just doesn't gel with how I believe kids should be raised in my ideal scenario. As I don't actually want kids it's not an issue. However if I changed my mind about kids it would be an issue. My partner is aware of this.

The above (perhaps aside from my partner) are all common enough reasons why some people don't want kids. Lately though I have been sort of self analysing myself, and have begun to think of another possible reason to explain why I don't have any real maternal yearnings.

Growing up had some alcohol addiction issues in my family and I grew up very quickly. In many respects I am very mature for my age. I am very independent when it comes to taking care of myself financially and I actually find my partner very immature in many ways which we do argue about. Despite him being a good few years older than me, some of his lifestyle choices and spending habits seem like the acts of a teenager to me and not the role I would expect a mature man to act as a father hence my earlier comments. (He is otherwise extremely intelligent, and loving - just disagree over some aspects)

There is a big contrast between my personal and social life. Whilst I had a lot of responsibilities and worries as a teenager at home, in school I was one of the youngest people in my year. Outside school I also had friends who were a few years older than me. I was always the "baby" of the group. When older in houseshares I was again the youngest of the groups. In the entire social group I have met and formed friendships with over the years through my boyfriend who is older than me, I am the youngest by many years. In college now, I am obviously not the youngest but am friends with a mixture of mature students and younger students. Even the younger ones are much more organised academically than me, although I still always manage to bring in top grades thankfully- I seem to do it in a haphazard immature way and my disorganisation and being last minute is a long running joke at this stage.

ALL of my friends outside college have children and majority of mature student friends in college also have children. My friends outside college often nag me and my partner about when are we having kids or getting married, even when I straight out say I don't want them it inevitably comes up again and gets questioned. Not in a nasty way just kind of irritating at the same time. Sometimes I do feel friends think I'm a weirdo/oddball for not wanting the same things as them.

I think what I'm trying to say is that I may have a fear of becoming older? I think it was in this forum before that I read some post that was talking about due to media and culture and the high regard placed on female youth etc -females fear of becoming older and wanting to remain being seen as girls as opposed to women.
I have to admit the first time I heard a mother in a queue in front of me say to her child "move out of the way for the woman" it for some reason sounded strange to me. Or "ask that woman there". I am more used to "let the girl past", "say hello to the girl". The word woman sounded foreign to me ridiculous as that will sound to most.

I see mothers as women and all parents as "grown ups". I don't for a second think that becoming a parent means that you can no longer be fun or do silly things, it's just that you will always have the massive responsibility of the children there underlying everything that needs to be considered.
I had to be a grown up too young in my family, and in my relationship always have to make the more sensible decisions. To friends outside the home I have been seen as the opposite really which has sometimes been an escape for me and a release of expectations and responsibility. I cherish the FREEDOM from responsibility that not having children affords me.

I guess to sum up this jumble of a post, I see parenthood as adult, mature, responsible etc. and I guess even though I will be 27 this year I just don't fully feel like a "responsible adult" yet. I am in many ways in that I've dealt with a lot of death in my family, I've worked from an extremely young age, I take care of myself financially and so on... But I still just don't see myself mentally as a "parent" type and I don't know if I ever will. Aside from these feelings I have also just never had any maternal yearnings or want for a child of my own. I am just pondering what (if any) role my feelings regarding youth and freedom play in this. Freedom and independence are hugely important to me and I don't think I would cope well losing any of that.I get hugely stressed if I ever feel tied down or trapped in any situation. Although I respect and understand that others feel very differently to me in this regard and believe that kids and all they entail are worth infinitely more than their previous childfree lives.
At the minute though, even the THOUGHT of parenthood fills me with a weird feeling of fear, dread and being trapped.

I know some would probably laugh in my face and tell me to grow up or just cop the feck on for not feeling like an adult at nearly 27, but just giving a truthful explanation of how I feel to add to the thread.
Enough self analysing for now I think, sorry for long post.:-D

Gatica

Amazing thread and really refreshing to read other women's perspectives as I used to think that women who didn't want kids were a really really incredibly small minority. I think the point about choice nowadays is a valid one.

I wanted kids when I was small, cos it seemed at the time like it's what all women do. However into my teens I realised I was not drawn to children and didn't find babies fascinating like other women/girls, and for ages felt like there was something wrong with me. In my early 20's I convinced myself the world was a terrible place to bring up children anyway and decided I probably didn't want kids.

However, then I met my OH who I found out felt the opposite. Over time I felt more apathetic to having children (swinging towards a positive you could say), rather than a definite no.
And now for me it has become a natural progression of our relationship. If it wasn't for his desire to have children, and our discussing them, I'm not sure what I would've thought on the topic now. Once we were serious we often talked about our family, our children and what we'd do together, or what we'd do as parents, I wondered what his children would be like or look like. It's funny but now I'm looking forward to having children with him. Not because I suddenly love babies, I don't, but because I want to have us (kinda egocentric? ), mini us.

However, the whole sentimental thing of "I need to be a mother" never hit me. I was never a broody type. I never felt that children were essential to my happiness or fulfilment. I also like being free to choose how I spend my money and my time and I think I'll find that part of it difficult.
My family as his I think has long been expecting children from us. I see the looks, hints and hopes (can't begrudge them that as grandparents to be I suppose) in conversations. I really hate that. It makes me feel under pressure. It is also a really annoying expectation that once you get married you should be popping out kids, or that maybe you're getting married now just so that you can have kids.
Many of our friends who've been getting married were having children soon after, and often when there's a good few who are parents in company 95% of conversation ends up revolving around children or their children. I know it's to be expected. I just wish some conversation could be other than how dark baby poo looks for the first few weeks... LOL!

alleystar wrote: »

I still find pregnancy fascinating though

This! LOL!
Despite not loving children, I always thought it would be nice to just be pregnant. I really like how pregnant women look, all lovely and round. I thought I might be a surrogate back in the day when I didn't think I'd have my own...

lazygal

Just FYI baby poo is only black for a few days. Then you get the nice green/yellow/mustard ones. Yeah it's gross.

Gongoozler

Lovely

Cazzoenorme

Fear of Responsibility wrote: »

I will be 27 this year. In a 10 year relationship and still don't want kids. (or marriage)
I have many reasons.
I mainly hate the responsibility associated with it all. The way I would always have a little child to consider before every life decision. I love my peace and quiet at home and relaxation time. I appreciate being able to go anywhere at he drop of a hat, or do whatever I feel like on a whim.

I have young relatives whom I love and enjoy, but at the same time after awhile I can feel myself feeling very drained and becoming a bit tense/stressed after maybe a whole day in their company. I feel like a release of pressure when I'm at home again. I hope that doesn't sound terrible, because it's not like they are bad kids. They are infact 99% of the time extremely well behaved and very pleasant fun kids that I absolutely adore, I just find kids very tiring like they zap all my zest from me or something?

I am also a mature student with a couple more years to go so that is also my main focus right now. I hope to build myself a successful career in my field and everything is looking very promising so far regarding that. I am getting great grades and there are jobs in this field.

I have not yet travelled many places and would like to do so without kids.

My partner smokes weed and like many others enjoys too much drink at the weekend.(I rarely drink myself anymore) I've no problem with the smoking or I wouldn't still be there, but for some reason I wouldn't want to have kids in a home where weed was smoked daily or every weekend was a party. It just doesn't gel with how I believe kids should be raised in my ideal scenario. As I don't actually want kids it's not an issue. However if I changed my mind about kids it would be an issue. My partner is aware of this.

The above (perhaps aside from my partner) are all common enough reasons why some people don't want kids. Lately though I have been sort of self analysing myself, and have begun to think of another possible reason to explain why I don't have any real maternal yearnings.

Growing up had some alcohol addiction issues in my family and I grew up very quickly. In many respects I am very mature for my age. I am very independent when it comes to taking care of myself financially and I actually find my partner very immature in many ways which we do argue about. Despite him being a good few years older than me, some of his lifestyle choices and spending habits seem like the acts of a teenager to me and not the role I would expect a mature man to act as a father hence my earlier comments. (He is otherwise extremely intelligent, and loving - just disagree over some aspects)

There is a big contrast between my personal and social life. Whilst I had a lot of responsibilities and worries as a teenager at home, in school I was one of the youngest people in my year. Outside school I also had friends who were a few years older than me. I was always the "baby" of the group. When older in houseshares I was again the youngest of the groups. In the entire social group I have met and formed friendships with over the years through my boyfriend who is older than me, I am the youngest by many years. In college now, I am obviously not the youngest but am friends with a mixture of mature students and younger students. Even the younger ones are much more organised academically than me, although I still always manage to bring in top grades thankfully- I seem to do it in a haphazard immature way and my disorganisation and being last minute is a long running joke at this stage.

ALL of my friends outside college have children and majority of mature student friends in college also have children. My friends outside college often nag me and my partner about when are we having kids or getting married, even when I straight out say I don't want them it inevitably comes up again and gets questioned. Not in a nasty way just kind of irritating at the same time. Sometimes I do feel friends think I'm a weirdo/oddball for not wanting the same things as them.

I think what I'm trying to say is that I may have a fear of becoming older? I think it was in this forum before that I read some post that was talking about due to media and culture and the high regard placed on female youth etc -females fear of becoming older and wanting to remain being seen as girls as opposed to women.
I have to admit the first time I heard a mother in a queue in front of me say to her child "move out of the way for the woman" it for some reason sounded strange to me. Or "ask that woman there". I am more used to "let the girl past", "say hello to the girl". The word woman sounded foreign to me ridiculous as that will sound to most.

I see mothers as women and all parents as "grown ups". I don't for a second think that becoming a parent means that you can no longer be fun or do silly things, it's just that you will always have the massive responsibility of the children there underlying everything that needs to be considered.
I had to be a grown up too young in my family, and in my relationship always have to make the more sensible decisions. To friends outside the home I have been seen as the opposite really which has sometimes been an escape for me and a release of expectations and responsibility. I cherish the FREEDOM from responsibility that not having children affords me.

I guess to sum up this jumble of a post, I see parenthood as adult, mature, responsible etc. and I guess even though I will be 27 this year I just don't fully feel like a "responsible adult" yet. I am in many ways in that I've dealt with a lot of death in my family, I've worked from an extremely young age, I take care of myself financially and so on... But I still just don't see myself mentally as a "parent" type and I don't know if I ever will. Aside from these feelings I have also just never had any maternal yearnings or want for a child of my own. I am just pondering what (if any) role my feelings regarding youth and freedom play in this. Freedom and independence are hugely important to me and I don't think I would cope well losing any of that.I get hugely stressed if I ever feel tied down or trapped in any situation. Although I respect and understand that others feel very differently to me in this regard and believe that kids and all they entail are worth infinitely more than their previous childfree lives.
At the minute though, even the THOUGHT of parenthood fills me with a weird feeling of fear, dread and being trapped.

I know some would probably laugh in my face and tell me to grow up or just cop the feck on for not feeling like an adult at nearly 27, but just giving a truthful explanation of how I feel to add to the thread.
Enough self analysing for now I think, sorry for long post.:-D

What is it about getting older that scares you?

Unless you die prematurely you will be a 60 year old woman in the year 2047.

Addle

Fear of responsibility, I wonder if your partner wasn't into weed, would your opinion be the same?
My ex smoked a lot and it def influenced my decisions.

Cazzoenorme

Addle wrote: »

Fear of responsibility, I wonder if your partner wasn't into weed, would your opinion be the same?
My ex smoked a lot and it def influenced my decisions.

You don't necessarily have to be any more responsible as you age.

LegacyUser

Addle wrote: »

Fear of responsibility, I wonder if your partner wasn't into weed, would your opinion be the same?
My ex smoked a lot and it def influenced my decisions.

Well it is only one factor I consider when I think of reasons not to have kids, but I wouldn't say it was the overriding factor. Even if he didn't smoke any at all I would still have all the other fears there.
I'm not against weed. I've seen all the studies that show it is less harmful than alcohol and many other drugs, I could also see the merits in the arguments for having it legalised. At the minute though it is not legal, and I have seen the effects it has caused in other couples I know with children. One couple have had house searches that their kids have had to witness and the fear of jail time for repeated finds of personal use possession. You'd think they'd stop after the first time getting caught but selfishly they didn't. No kid should have to deal with that. Others who have never got in trouble for possession but are always looking over their shoulder, panic if a stranger called to the front door, hiding and sneaking it from the kids etc.
Then there's the money issues. Some people are fine, can smoke recreationally no problems really, others spend far too much money on it and spent more time stoned than sober - this would be an issue if raising kids.
My partner knows how I feel about this and actually agrees with me. If we were ever to change our mind about kids he knows that I would have to witness a massive change with him regarding weed use/spending habits and see him being consistent with these changes for at least at year before I'd even start trying for a pregnancy!

As I mentioned though, it is still really only one of my minor considerations because my partner agrees that things would change if needs be, but the other fears and worries would still remain regardless.

Cazzoenorme wrote: »

What is it about getting older that scares you?

Unless you die prematurely you will be a 60 year old woman in the year 2047.

Well it's not the number as such. Nor is it the physical ageing process that bothers me. Don't care much about future wrinkles or sagging!:) Being 60 and childfree sounds good to me personally anyways.

I think what I was trying to say but probably didn't explain myself very well is that when I say I fear the thought of being older, I don't mean the thought of wrinkles, or age number really. (Although I used to - I used to worry about physical ageing in the future but only really in the last year or 2 have stopped caring about, as now I see it as that wouldn't I be lucky to live long enough to get old and wrinkly instead of less fortunate people.)

My fears are more based in the idea of older as being "grown up" regarding being a responsible parent. I am a "grown up" in many ways in my life like those I mentioned in previous post, but that other step of adulthood - becoming responsible for the well-being of another little human life is just MASSIVE! I see that as another phase of adulthood that I have not reached, possibly will never reach, and that I even baulk at the thought of.
My previous post was me just wondering if maybe I have that fear because I feel I had too much responsibilities already pushed upon me growing up when I didn't want or ask for them, and that being childfree is a remaining freedom that I can keep and actually have some control over.
Not having a child is one less stress, and allows me to enjoy my life the way I want to.
I know others go through a hell of a lot worse than me as a kid and still want kids and/or make great parents, so I don't know if my past plays a role but have just been wondering to myself recently if maybe it plays a small role.

Again though, my fear of responsibility is also just one of other aspects(although a major one) that makes me not want kids. There's still all the other things there too like just loving my freedom, focusing on my education at the min, wanting to travel too, the way I feel trapped and panicked if I am tied down to any situation etc.

Cazzoenorme wrote: »

You don't necessarily have to be any more responsible as you age.

No but you do if you have kids.

poundapunnet

Don't want any, have felt the same since I was a kid myself and am regularly told that I'll feel differently when I'm older.

I have a few reasons. One is that I've had an eating disorder for over ten years which must has probably taken a significant toll on my body by now. I don't want to make things worse by going through pregnancy, and I don't think it'd be fair to bring a child into the world when my health is probably going to be so bad in later life. I also don't think I have the temperament to be a very good mother. Added to that is I plan to travel, would like to do a doctorate, I like my sleep, I like my drink and my drugs etc, I like plenty of things that are not very child friendly.

But essentially I just don't want children, that's my starting position. It often (not this thread) feels like if you're a woman who doesn't want them, you have to start from the position that you SHOULD want them and reason backwards from there. The implication being of course that there's something wrong with you. Not wanting or wanting kids are both perfectly reasonably positions, until you get down to specifics neither needs to be justified or explained more than the other.

It really gets frustrating when you see everywhere women (and men) just wailing and raving that they want their own kids because it's just such a strong, natural drive, and that's seen as a perfectly reasonable or even commendable reason to make sacrifices in their careers, spend thousands, travel across the world etc., and yet 'I just don't really want them' gets you looked at like you've two heads!!

Sorry, that turned into a bit a rant, phew

username123

lazygal wrote: »

Just FYI baby poo is only black for a few days. Then you get the nice green/yellow/mustard ones. Yeah it's gross.

^^ Another reason I wouldn't want to be a mother, feeling the need to offer this kind of info unrequested is not the kind of thing I'd be happy to see myself doing. I don't need to know about baby poo colour.

Tigger99

Thankfully I know a good few mothers that feel the same username123. Way way tmi.

Gongoozler

poundapunnet wrote: »

Don't want any, have felt the same since I was a kid myself and am regularly told that I'll feel differently when I'm older.

I have a few reasons. One is that I've had an eating disorder for over ten years which must has probably taken a significant toll on my body by now. I don't want to make things worse by going through pregnancy, and I don't think it'd be fair to bring a child into the world when my health is probably going to be so bad in later life. I also don't think I have the temperament to be a very good mother. Added to that is I plan to travel, would like to do a doctorate, I like my sleep, I like my drink and my drugs etc, I like plenty of things that are not very child friendly.

But essentially I just don't want children, that's my starting position. It often (not this thread) feels like if you're a woman who doesn't want them, you have to start from the position that you SHOULD want them and reason backwards from there. The implication being of course that there's something wrong with you. Not wanting or wanting kids are both perfectly reasonably positions, until you get down to specifics neither needs to be justified or explained more than the other.

It really gets frustrating when you see everywhere women (and men) just wailing and raving that they want their own kids because it's just such a strong, natural drive, and that's seen as a perfectly reasonable or even commendable reason to make sacrifices in their careers, spend thousands, travel across the world etc., and yet 'I just don't really want them' gets you looked at like you've two heads!!

Sorry, that turned into a bit a rant, phew

Yeah there's babies being brought into work now, and there's lots of cooing going on which is fine, but I know I'm being thought of as rude as I'm not over cooing at the baby too, and just sitting trying to get my work done, despite the unnecessary disruption.

Legs.Eleven

I want children specifically with the man I´m with now. If we broke up tomorrow, I wouldn´t want them at all. I only thought about having them after a year or so of us being together and realising he was "the one". I think he´d be a great dad (I´ve seen him around children - it´d melt your heart) and together we´d be great parents and I want one or two because I think I´ve got a lot of love to give them and have the potential to be a good mother. My own mother passed away years ago when I was 10, so part of me wants to give to my children what I didn´t have growing up.

I partied and travelled me arse off in my 20s and into my 30s, so I´m ready for the "quiet" life at this stage.

I´m the youngest of 5 and I wasn´t around kids as a child growing up (I was the baby) and only with my nieces and nephews have I learned how to be comfortable around kids and turns out I´m pretty good with them, which I think surprised a few family members (being the youngest, I´ve always been seen as the "baby" of the family and not a potential mother). I´d be the kind of person who´d coo over babies of strangers and love kids and babies generally; I turn into a bit of a sap around them. My friends and siblings with kids love being parents and have definitely shown parenting in a positive light and that´s increased the broodiness.

I am concerned though that it might not happen. My boyfriend is unemployed and I don´t know if we´ll be in a financial position to have them anytime soon (I´m 34). If we didn´t, I´d be heartbroken tbh as I have my heart set on having them. Hopefully it works out. We´ll see.

R.D. aka MR.D

I've never wanted kids.
I also hate the whole 'you'll change your mind'.

Honestly, my reasons probably go back to having a very unhappy childhood. From my childhood, i've seen how things shouldn't be done! My parents basically didn't want me and made that clear from the age that I was old enough to understand.
At other times my mother would use me as an emotional crutch.
I feel that when you have kids you should make sure they are loved and wanted. They should also be loved in a healthy way.

A friend of mine has 2 kids now and I feel bad for them because she only had them to fill a void in her life. She's really clingy with them and says things like 'i finally have some one to hug me'.

My brother's wife is also pregnant again. I love my nephew and he is great but the amount of disgusting things she tells me about being pregnant and the horrible disgusting things that happen to the baby and can also happen to you , keep my mind made up that I don't want them.

She's a very realistic and supportive person. She tells me that it's not all it's cracked up to be. She tells me that she hates when people make out like pregnancy, birth and bringing up a baby is all sunshine and roses. She still wants 5 kids though!

Children are a huge burden financially.
I know that I could never provide appropriate emotional and financial support for a child so I won't have them.

I just wish that people would be more open minded when it comes to women who choose not to have children. My OH and my Sister-in-law are the only 2 people in my life who don't belittle me when it comes to the subject of not having children.

Cazzoenorme

Gongoozler wrote: »

Yeah there's babies being brought into work now, and there's lots of cooing going on which is fine, but I know I'm being thought of as rude as I'm not over cooing at the baby too, and just sitting trying to get my work done, despite the unnecessary disruption.

How do you know you are thought of as rude?

username123

Cazzoenorme wrote: »

How do you know you are thought of as rude?

Even if it's not seen as rude it's seen as odd. I've suffered it my whole working life, particularly as I've mostly worked in an all male environment so people specifically bring the babies into my office to see me! Then I've no interest, don't know what to say, feel awkward, etc, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that it's not viewed well. It got so that I'd just pretend to coo and then pretend to be called away quickly.

lazygal

Seriously, people tell you they brought the baby in to see you specifically? That's really strange. I've brought my babies into work when I was on maternity leave, not to show them off to a particular person but because I breastfeed so they have to be with me. I don't expect any cooing over them, of course my colleagues who went for a coffee with me had a goo but that was it.

Chattastrophe!

I'm not a baby-person, but I'm grand in those situations. You go through the formalities - "Oh isn't it gorgeous, oh look at those eyes, oh look at it's hair (or lack of hair), oh it's so alert." (Hopefully you'll be able to manage a he/she instead of IT, but that's the general theme. Oh and you always mention the "alert" thing. :pac:)

I think it's pretty standard to congratulate a fellow colleague on a major lifechanging event.

Even though I'm a mother, I don't have any particular maternal feelings. In fact there's a hilarious photo of me about seven months pregnant holding a colleague's newborn, which was shoved onto me at a moment's notice, and my expression is just, "Oh god there's a baby on me what do I do!!!"

Some people just aren't really into kids. I'm not, I'm a mother myself and I have all the time in the world for my own little baby. But I'm really not into gooing and gaaing over most other babies, at all!

Fair enough, some are cute, but becoming a mother doesn't mean that you have to adore EVERY child!

Gongoozler

Cazzoenorme wrote: »

How do you know you are thought of as rude?

Yeah, you kinda just know. I can see out of the corner of my eye that there's a few wondering glances.

This baby the other day was crying, and then had to have his nappy changed, which as far as I'm concerned is totally inappropriate for a work place. It was very difficult to concentrate on my work, which was quite urgent. I mean bring your baby in if you like and people want to see it, but just go to the canteen or kitchen or wherever, just not have it crying and stinking up the office. It's common courtesy and sense.

username123

lazygal wrote: »

Seriously, people tell you they brought the baby in to see you specifically? That's really strange. I've brought my babies into work when I was on maternity leave, not to show them off to a particular person but because I breastfeed so they have to be with me. I don't expect any cooing over them, of course my colleagues who went for a coffee with me had a goo but that was it.

Yes. They were bringing them in to show in the specific office they worked in then they'd do a little tour popping into other offices (it was a friendly place) and I'd be able to hear them out in the corridor saying "I'm just gonna pop in here so username123 doesn't feel left out". The assumption that I have experienced my whole life is that every woman wants to see a new baby.

I'm surprised you find that strange, it happened literally every time someone in the place had a kid, over the 15 tears I worked there that was a lot. I thought it was the norm for people to bring the new baby in for show and tell. It happened in the previous workplace too although that wasn't an office environment so I could hide more easily. Just no interest at all. Delighted to congratulate people on a new baby, do not need to see it.

I hope it is strange, because I always felt weird about it but everyone else acted like it was normal so I assumed it was the done thing!

Nymeria

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

I want children specifically with the man I´m with now. If we broke up tomorrow, I wouldn´t want them at all. I only thought about having them after a year or so of us being together and realising he was "the one".

This is what I find a bit strange to be honest, not trying to start a fight or anything Legs, I am just genuinely wondering have you thought about the fact that your relationship could end, and then you could well be left raising kids on your own, that in your own words you only wanted because of your partner. I'm not saying it will happen, but you never know what the future brings, and while relationships can end your children are always your children.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, or misunderstand or something, I just always thought it should be something you do because you want to raise a child, not because of a specific relationship.

meeeeh

Nymeria wrote: »

This is what I find a bit strange to be honest, not trying to start a fight or anything Legs, I am just genuinely wondering have you thought about the fact that your relationship could end, and then you could well be left raising kids on your own, that in your own words you only wanted because of your partner. I'm not saying it will happen, but you never know what the future brings, and while relationships can end your children are always your children.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, or misunderstand or something, I just always thought it should be something you do because you want to raise a child, not because of a specific relationship.

I don't want to answer for anyone else but my feelings were the same as Legse's.

I think it is more that you want children with the right person. I wouldn't want to be a single parent. Yes it can happen and then you deal with the situation, you don't suddenly stop loving your kids. But for me ideal situation is either two parent family or childless single person. Some people feel differently and want to become single parents either because they don't want an abortion or because they want a child regardless of their relationship status. I am not one of them. It is not that I would want children because of my partner, I wanted to have children with the right partner or none at all.

eviltwin

username123 wrote: »

Yes. They were bringing them in to show in the specific office they worked in then they'd do a little tour popping into other offices (it was a friendly place) and I'd be able to hear them out in the corridor saying "I'm just gonna pop in here so username123 doesn't feel left out". The assumption that I have experienced my whole life is that every woman wants to see a new baby.

I'm surprised you find that strange, it happened literally every time someone in the place had a kid, over the 15 tears I worked there that was a lot. I thought it was the norm for people to bring the new baby in for show and tell. It happened in the previous workplace too although that wasn't an office environment so I could hide more easily. Just no interest at all. Delighted to congratulate people on a new baby, do not need to see it.

I hope it is strange, because I always felt weird about it but everyone else acted like it was normal so I assumed it was the done thing!

I suppose it depends on your work environment but where I work we are a fairly tight little group and its great to see someone on the team again after they go on maternity leave, 6 months is a long time now to see them and as Chattastrophe says they have gone through a major life event, I want to see them and ask how they are, if they will be back etc. Its not about fawning over the child although I will have a look and say the right things.

I've worked with people who flat out refuse to go over because they don't like babies which is so rude imo, unless you are really busy then its just basic manners to say hello to someone who has come in.

Legs.Eleven

Nymeria wrote: »

This is what I find a bit strange to be honest, not trying to start a fight or anything Legs, I am just genuinely wondering have you thought about the fact that your relationship could end, and then you could well be left raising kids on your own, that in your own words you only wanted because of your partner. I'm not saying it will happen, but you never know what the future brings, and while relationships can end your children are always your children.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, or misunderstand or something, I just always thought it should be something you do because you want to raise a child, not because of a specific relationship.

Fair enough.

It´s not that I didn´t want kids at all before meeting him but the desire to have them, guessing he might be a great dad potentially, has increased that desire. If he he left me of course I´d love my kids regardless but that push to have them in the first place has come about with meeting him. My love for my kids wouldn´t depend on him being around. I don´t want to raise my kids on my own ideally and I don´t think too many people would choose that for themselves. It´s simply that he´s the first man I´ve met in my life who I think I could work well with to raise kids with similar ideals on how that might ideally happen. Nothing more than that. I´m not great at explaining myself either verbally or in the written word, so it´s very hard to put into words.


I´ve had boyfriend that although they were great men, I think we would´ve clashed on how we should raise our kids but with this particular man it hasn´t been the case. I also didn´t see myself with them for the rest of my life and I do with this man. It´s the first relationship where things have worked out and I love the person completely. He wants to have kids with me, which obviously increases the desire that only seemed like a passing whim in the past (if even that). When someone says they want to have your kids, it becomes something more serious.


I want to have kids but I want to set out with the goal of having them with a partner as I think it´s a tough job and I think he´d be a good partner in raising them; he´s brought out a dormant desire in me that might´ve been there all along because I never took my life, myself or my relationships very seriously...and now I do. If he leaves me, I will, of course, love my kids completely.


Hard to put into words.

username123

username123 wrote: »

Yes. They were bringing them in to show in the specific office they worked in then they'd do a little tour popping into other offices (it was a friendly place) and I'd be able to hear them out in the corridor saying "I'm just gonna pop in here so username123 doesn't feel left out". The assumption that I have experienced my whole life is that every woman wants to see a new baby.

I'm surprised you find that strange, it happened literally every time someone in the place had a kid, over the 15 tears I worked there that was a lot. I thought it was the norm for people to bring the new baby in for show and tell. It happened in the previous workplace too although that wasn't an office environment so I could hide more easily. Just no interest at all. Delighted to congratulate people on a new baby, do not need to see it.

I hope it is strange, because I always felt weird about it but everyone else acted like it was normal so I assumed it was the done thing!

It is pretty strange. In our place new babies are brought to general reception area only and anyone who wants to go down and see them can, and that's it

username123

bluewolf wrote: »

It is pretty strange. In our place new babies are brought to general reception area only and anyone who wants to go down and see them can, and that's it

I feel less Dexter like now.

Legs.Eleven

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't want to answer for anyone else but my feelings were the same as Legse's.

I think it is more that you want children with the right person. I wouldn't want to be a single parent. Yes it can happen and then you deal with the situation, you don't suddenly stop loving your kids. But for me ideal situation is either two parent family or childless single person. Some people feel differently and want to become single parents either because they don't want an abortion or because they want a child regardless of their relationship status. I am not one of them. It is not that I would want children because of my partner, I wanted to have children with the right partner or none at all.

And there´s what I wanted to say in fewer words. Bingo.

woodchuck

bluewolf wrote: »

It is pretty strange. In our place new babies are brought to general reception area only and anyone who wants to go down and see them can, and that's it

People bring them up the main office area in my workplace too, same with the last place I was in. I thought that was the norm to be honest.

Gatica

Tigger99 wrote: »

Thankfully I know a good few mothers that feel the same username123. Way way tmi.

I think lots of parents forget how gross babies and children can be to people who don't have them.
I don't like the smell of babies (everyone always seems to go on how great they smell), I don't like the smell of creams or talcum they use on them, I can really sense the smell of stuff in their nappies, and the vomit that was wiped off, and the gunk and drool on their faces grosses me out. I also don't like when parents pick up bits of mushed up food off their kids faces and eat it themselves. Eugh... I really have to turn away when they do that as it really churns my stomach.
I think little kids and babies can be cute, but that does not mean I am dying to hold them. My OH is really good with children, and I do love that about him. I wish I was a bit more like that...

Gatica

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

I've never wanted kids.
I also hate the whole 'you'll change your mind'.

I think people don't realise how disrespectful something like that sounds. It's like you don't know yourself well enough and they're so wise, they know that you'll change your mind, cos obviously your biological clock will kick in, as that's the expectation...

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't want to answer for anyone else but my feelings were the same as Legse's.

I think it is more that you want children with the right person.

This is me too. I wouldn't have thought of kids if it weren't for my partner.

Das Kitty

Gatica wrote: »

I think lots of parents forget how gross babies and children can be to people who don't have them.
I don't like the smell of babies (everyone always seems to go on how great they smell), I don't like the smell of creams or talcum they use on them, I can really sense the smell of stuff in their nappies, and the vomit that was wiped off, and the gunk and drool on their faces grosses me out. I also don't like when parents pick up bits of mushed up food off their kids faces and eat it themselves. Eugh... I really have to turn away when they do that as it really churns my stomach.
I think little kids and babies can be cute, but that does not mean I am dying to hold them. My OH is really good with children, and I do love that about him. I wish I was a bit more like that...

I'm a mum, and my stomach is churning reading that post.

Too much vivid detail about these things is bad no matter who it's coming from. :pac:

Gatica

Das Kitty wrote: »

I'm a mum, and my stomach is churning reading that post.

Too much vivid detail about these things is bad no matter who it's coming from. :pac:

my bad

meeeeh

Ok l have no problem with nappies or even puke. But that thing with mustard is making me sick. Who does that?

Malari

Gatica wrote: »

I think lots of parents forget how gross babies and children can be to people who don't have them.
I don't like the smell of babies (everyone always seems to go on how great they smell), I don't like the smell of creams or talcum they use on them, I can really sense the smell of stuff in their nappies, and the vomit that was wiped off, and the gunk and drool on their faces grosses me out. I also don't like when parents pick up bits of mushed up food off their kids faces and eat it themselves. Eugh... I really have to turn away when they do that as it really churns my stomach.
I think little kids and babies can be cute, but that does not mean I am dying to hold them. My OH is really good with children, and I do love that about him. I wish I was a bit more like that...

Oh god, I just threw up a bit in my mouth. :pac:

I can't stand even seeing parents put their fingers in babies' mouth to retrieve something it shouldn't have been trying to eat. Ick.

vitani

It's amazing what you adjust to. When your toddler proudly holds up a piece of half-chewed toast and tries to feed it to you, it's very hard to say no to them!

username123

Malari wrote: »

Oh god, I just threw up a bit in my mouth. :pac:

I can't stand even seeing parents put their fingers in babies' mouth to retrieve something it shouldn't have been trying to eat. Ick.

I'm going to have to stop reading this thread, it's become really gross!!