Incontinence medication

aonb

Im not looking for medical advice - I plan to talk with the vet next week.
My elderly dog has started to pee in the house when we leave him home for more than an couple of hours. This is not really a problem - papertowels & cleaners soon take care of it - our floors are wooden or tiles - its age related I know. Sometimes he will pee overnight, or just pee if taken short during the day. This is a regular occurance for the past months. It is getting worse though.
As I say, not a huge problem, but Im wondering about medication - Ive read of boardsies on here using incontinence meds successfully (for their dogs that is ). Im just wondering, is there any reason that I should put off putting him on incontinence meds? (The vet sees him regularly & suggested when the time comes the meds will sort him) As I say, the dog is 16 yrs old, in pretty good form, but Im wondering if any of you who use incontinence meds know of any side effects or reasons why I should not go down that route yet?

DBB

Do you know, does he make any effort to go out, or ask to go out?
Does he carry out any of the routine of realising he needs to go, getting up, going towards the door, telling you he needs to go? Then going out and peeing when given the opportunity?
Or does he just pee where he stands?
The fact that it only happens when he hasn't you about to watch out for him opens up several possibilities which might call true incontinence into question, at least to some extent.
In which case, whilst there's every chance it's regular incontinence, there is also a chance that it's behavioural, possibly a symptom of advancing canine cognitive dysfunction, or dementia. This tends to be typified by the dog "forgetting" elements of the "going to the toilet" routine. So they might get up, walk to the door, but forget to "tell" you they need out. Or, if you're not there, one of his cues to ask to go out is missing, which may itself cause him to forget.
Cognitive dysfunction often causes older dogs to become more anxious generally, and they often develop separation anxiety, or existing separation issues worsen. And a typical symptom of separation anxiety is toileting in the house. Could this be contributing in your old fella's case?
Another possibility is another medical one... Dogs with any source of pain or discomfort, particularly if it's musculoskeletal, can try to avoid getting up until it's really urgent, because getting up is uncomfortable. So they leave it too late and end up peeing before they can get out.
If, after cancelling out these possibilities, and it turns out to be true medical incontinence, I wouldn't hesitate to start the meds! If he needs them, he needs them and at his age, they could help with his general quality of life: I'm sure peeing inside the house upsets him?
Good luck!

Millem

aonb wrote: »

Im not looking for medical advice - I plan to talk with the vet next week.
My elderly dog has started to pee in the house when we leave him home for more than an couple of hours. This is not really a problem - papertowels & cleaners soon take care of it - our floors are wooden or tiles - its age related I know. Sometimes he will pee overnight, or just pee if taken short during the day. This is a regular occurance for the past months. It is getting worse though.
As I say, not a huge problem, but Im wondering about medication - Ive read of boardsies on here using incontinence meds successfully (for their dogs that is ). Im just wondering, is there any reason that I should put off putting him on incontinence meds? (The vet sees him regularly & suggested when the time comes the meds will sort him) As I say, the dog is 16 yrs old, in pretty good form, but Im wondering if any of you who use incontinence meds know of any side effects or reasons why I should not go down that route yet?

My old girl uses them and they are life changing. The first one she was on was called propalin, it can have side effects thankfully we didn't experience any. http://www.inhousepharmacy.biz/p-342-propalin-100ml.aspx
It literally stopped working one day so she is now on incurrin, again there are possible side effect. http://www.merck-animal-health-usa.com/products/96-59930-4/productdetails_130_163463.aspx
The dosage for propalin depends on the weight of the dog but the dosage for incurrin is or based on weight. She is 30ishkg and it costs around €70 per month for 1 incurrin and 1 squirt of propalin per day but it will be going down to just €35 as propalin has no effect anymore so no point in giving it to her. Vet reckons the medications only work maybe two years. We got a 2 years with just propalin and hopefully the incurrin will give us around two as vet says there are no other options and I am not going down the nappy route! She doesn't leak anymore but still needs to be watched as she has the odd accident and continues to lie in it!
Also I bought vet bed, it is brill, dries so so quick.

aonb

Thank you for your replies - the side effects are my only issue with starting him/holding off on medication - he is in good shape, and I can live with cleaning up accidents for the time being.

DBB, He is a VERY confident, happy little chap. No stress or seperation anxiety - ever!! He KNOWS my only purpose for existing is to serve him yummy home cooked dinners, and a daily walk. If he pees on the floor, he looks at me when I groan, and apart from slouching off elsewhere, it doesnt really bother him. He does still ask to go out to wee, and apart from a bit of arthritis in his shoulder is pretty fit physically. The wees seem for the moment to be when he is caught short or left in the house alone, he cant hold it. He doesnt wee in his bed. There are days when he seems a bit 'vague', so as you say, Cognitive Dysfunction/Dementia may be contributing factors.

Millem, the Incurin link you included seems to indicate that this is only for bitches? Tho it does say something to the effect that it hasnt been evaluated in male dogs:

"For the control of estrogen-responsive urinary incontinence in ovariohysterectomized female dogs"

and the Propalin says it works specifically on the "urethral sphincter" - and refers mostly to bitches - do male dogs have a urethral sphincter(sorry for my ignorance).

As I say, I will talk to the vet next week, I think the time has probably come to put him on some sort of medication. More importantly I forgot to add earlier, over the past week or so, I notice, first thing in the mornings, that he spends a long while 'cocking' his leg before any wee comes out

Poor little chap - he is sitting staring at me sending me his subconscious instructions now to go get his dinner ready, so I better get on!!

DBB

Propalin can be used for males alright,as they have a urinary sphincter... Thank goodness :-D
Delighted to hear it's unlikely to be separation related, as that's a toughie to sort out. However, if he's doing thinks like waking at night and not going back to sleep for ages, or if you find he's just not as mentally sharp as he was a while ago, along with this peeing problem, then cognitive dysfunction could be a runner. If it is, then dietary and drug intervention can make a huge difference, so much so that it'll not be this condition that finishes the old warrior off in the end!
He still has sphincter control, as he only does this when you're not there, so my guess is that his bladder tone or sphincter tone is not as good as it was (he can hold on, but not for extended periods), but another area your vet will certainly check is the prostate gland. Old male dogs, even neutered ones, can be martyrs to their prostate!

aonb

DBB, thank you for (as always)the very informative reply. I will talk to the vet this week re Prostate/Sphincter possibilities.

Just 2 further questions, you might know about, if you dont mind:

Does a blood test show prostrate problems in a dog as it does a human?

What is the difference between Cognitive Dysfunction and Dementia in dogs from a diagnosis point of view? Ive done some reading on CDS and apart from the incontinence (and increasing deafness) he is showing none of the symptoms that are listed. Or is CDS age-related-dementia now, just a 'new' name?

He eats v.well (home cooked), lots of games/interaction/walks/happy to see us etc, sleeps great, grooms, no disorientation, no weight changes, and apart from the odd 'vague' day and gastric episodes occassionally, is really great for an elderly dog. FIngers crossed its 'just' incontinence, and the vet will sort him quickly with anti-incontinence meds