David Moyes sacked

enfant terrible

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Wenger is two seasons too long at Arsenal. By the time he goes from there the life will be sucked completely out of them. Board is equally to blame there though, they've sacrificed premiership titles for champions league qualification which is a sin for a club that size

How was Wenger supposed to build a title winning squad while financing a £400 million pound stadium.

It's a miracle Wenger kept them in the Champions League having to sell their best players every year and the new oil clubs on the scene, plus Liverpool and Tottenham constantly outspending them.

jackthelad321

I think it really comes down to trusting him to rebuild the squad. I also don't think the problems are as horrendous as people think. De Gea is fantastic, our attack is very strong, if a little disjointed. If we sorted out the midfield the defense would look nowhere near as weak. It woun't fix everything but it would have a significant effect on how easy teams cut through us and then make the defense look foolish. Think about it. There is a strong squad there, albeit weak across midfield. We need a few players, but it seems crazy to ship out everyone because Moyes can't work with them. All that experience gone from the dressing room. A better manager would be getting far more from them. Seems harsh, but it's true.

I know I would not trust him with 100 million or whatever he might have been given to spend. After Fellaini, I just don't trust him with big-money signings. As for giving him time, well I think he just made an indelible impression than all the time in the world would not be enough. While I have no doubt things would improve (regression to the mean and all that) I can't see united challenging for anything other than the League or FA cups under Moyes. Maybe I am shortsighted, but ... if he had won anything before, or was known for tactical acumen, something to hang your hat on... yes, he did get some in some bargains at Everton. Fair play. And was organised and dogged. Is that it? Is that what united need? Where's the ambition, the arrogance, the cutting edge?

Anyway, who do people want to see after this? Is Klopp still everyone's first choice?

Dcully

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Whatever happens this is only a blip in the club. Its not like years ago when they could fall back into mediocrity and no one would care. One of the biggest clubs in Europe if not world football this will be corrected pretty quickly

They are the very definition of mediocrity right now.

Augmerson

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Writing on the wall really the last couple of games. Team looks good on paper but useless in performance. When the players aren't performing for you the games up

I'm not totally convinced by that, I hear a lot of people coming out with Moyes has lost the players. Why aren't the players playing for the club? They are certainly being paid enough to go out there and do there thing. I will admit though that if a team isn't set up right then it is hard to play successfully but I think the Utd players have to shoulder some of the responsibility of this season, it isn't 100% Moyes' fault.

OneEightSeven

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Wenger is two seasons too long at Arsenal. By the time he goes from there the life will be sucked completely out of them. Board is equally to blame there though, they've sacrificed premiership titles for champions league qualification which is a sin for a club that size

You don't have a clue what you're talking about. We sacrificed trophies for a new stadium. We lost our best players because we had a salary cap. We couldn't buy big players because of our salary cap.

We're having our best season since 2008, so I'm not sure where you're getting this "sucking the life" shít from.

fozz10

looking forward to when they realise that its the squad is the problem not the manager. theyve got 3 maybe 4 top level players at best, that is their problem in my opinion anyways. this is gonna cost them big financially, when they pay him off and get a big expensive manager who still will struggle to get them into top 4 next season unless they buy 4, 5 or 6 players which is what they need. still though good entertainment

dixiefly

Sad to see that it looks to have come to this. He is a good football man but has never recovered from the poor start and hasn't the experience to work within a top level club.

I don't want to be cynical but I hope that the United supporters that made The Chosen One banner get it stuck up their collective arses (sp). Nit made me embarrassed since the first time I saw it.

GLaDOS

Not good enough, pretty obvious at this stage. I'm all for giving managers time, but it's obvious Moyes is out of his depth.

Oat23

I thought he should have been given at least until November/December. It hasn't got well, yes, but look at the team they have. Giggs is like 60 and still playing. Their defenders are either sh*te (Jones, Smalling) or too old/injured (Rio, Vidic). Their midfield is still missing a Scholes-type player. Carrick and Fletcher as the two 6's in a 4-2-3-1 is too defensive.

Nani and Young are terrible as well.

Ferguson jumped at the right time, just before a rebuild was needed. Fair play to him for realising it and getting out.

G.K.

Oat23 wrote: »

I thought he should have been given at least until November/December. It hasn't got well, yes, but look at the team they have. Giggs is like 60 and still playing. Their defenders are either sh*te (Jones, Smalling) or too old/injured (Rio, Vidic). Their midfield is still missing a Scholes-type player. Carrick and Fletcher as the two 6's in a 4-2-3-1 is too defensive.

Disagree over that - just bad at RB.

Corvo

Oat23 wrote: »

I thought he should have been given at least until November/December. It hasn't got well, yes, but look at the team they have. Giggs is like 60 and still playing. Their defenders are either sh*te (Jones, Smalling) or too old/injured (Rio, Vidic). Their midfield is still missing a Scholes-type player. Carrick and Fletcher as the two 6's in a 4-2-3-1 is too defensive.

Nani and Young are terrible as well.

Ferguson jumped at the right time, just before a rebuild was needed. Fair play to him for realising it and getting out.

Yeah, because Fergie always shyed away from a rebuild - the same Fergie that was probably one of the best managers the world has seen at building, improving, dismantling and rebuilding sides.

Jesus, I always thought the soccer forum here contained some brilliant posters but the amount of hollow heads around here lately, including United fans, is just mystifying.

Will I Amnt

Oat23 wrote: »

I thought he should have been given at least until November/December. It hasn't got well, yes, but look at the team they have. Giggs is like 60 and still playing. Their defenders are either sh*te (Jones, Smalling) or too old/injured (Rio, Vidic). Their midfield is still missing a Scholes-type player. Carrick and Fletcher as the two 6's in a 4-2-3-1 is too defensive.

Nani and Young are terrible as well.

Ferguson jumped at the right time, just before a rebuild was needed. Fair play to him for realising it and getting out.

Smalling is most definitely not shìte.
Nani is most definitely not terrible.

Oat23

G.K. wrote: »

Disagree over that - just bad at RB.

Wasn't aware he was a CB. He has played RB when I have seen him (v Bayer, Everton and Olympiacos). Might be a better CB then.

Just goes to show how bad a state united are in when they have to play someone like that at RB. It isn't right for one of the biggest clubs in the world. Doesn't look like they have a injury crisis or anything like that. The squad has way too many holes in it. He deserved more time because of that if you ask me.

Corvo wrote: »

Yeah, because Fergie always shyed away from a rebuild - the same Fergie that was probably one of the best managers the world has seen at building, improving, dismantling and rebuilding sides.

Fergie was too old. I'm not knocking him for walking away, don't get my wrong. Why should he start something he couldn't finish? He wanted to retire and let the new man oversee the rebuild.

fatherted1969

OneEightSeven wrote: »

You don't have a clue what you're talking about. We sacrificed trophies for a new stadium. We lost our best players because we had a salary cap. We couldn't buy big players because of our salary

We're having our best season since 2008, so I'm not sure where you're getting this "sucking the life" shít from.

Arsenal have accepted champions league qualification as their measure of success for a number of years now. They are a wealthy club that could buy nearly any player they want. Wenger was a great manager and can be again but won't be at Arsenal imo. His biggest and probably only weakness is aside from Ozil which i'm still not sure about, name a big player he bought at the top of his game which improved in their time there.

He's probably the best manager in the would at identifying something in a player, taking a gamble and turning them into superstars but actually buying world class and fitting them into his team then no.

Setting a salary cap and trying to defend it says more about the Arsenal board than anything.

Corvo

Oat23 wrote: »

Wasn't aware he was a CB. He has played RB when I have seen him (v Bayer, Everton and Olympiacos). Might be a better CB then.

Just goes to show how bad a state united are in when they have to play someone like that at RB. It isn't right for one of the biggest clubs in the world. Doesn't look like they have a injury crisis or anything like that. The squad has way too many holes in it. He deserved more time because of that if you ask me.



Fergie was too old. I'm not knocking him for walking away, don't get my wrong. Why should he start something he couldn't finish? He wanted to retire and let the new man oversee the rebuild.

Ah, apologies. I do think he made a few short term signings to appease his own hunger to win the league - Van Persie purchase and the Scholes / Pogba situation certainly did not point towards a rebuild I agree.

I just don't think he intentionally said " fook this - it's too tough I'm outta here"

EuropeanSon

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Arsenal have accepted champions league qualification as their measure of success for a number of years now. They are a wealthy club that could buy nearly any player they want. Wenger was a great manager and can be again but won't be at Arsenal imo. His biggest and probably only weakness is aside from Ozil which i'm still not sure about, name a big player he bought at the top of his game which improved in their time there.

He's probably the best manager in the would at identifying something in a player, taking a gamble and turning them into superstars but actually buying world class and fitting them into his team then no.

Setting a salary cap and trying to defend it says more about the Arsenal board than anything.

So where was the money for the stadium supposed to come from?

You clearly have no idea what you're on about, you should probably just drop the subject before your ignorance becomes even more obvious.

Lukker-

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Nani is most definitely not terrible.

He's not good either.

Oat23

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Nani is most definitely not terrible.

He has hardly set the world alight this season. No goals, no assists. He barely played last season as well.
He looked like he didn't give a sh*t yesterday either.

Not worth his salary.

niallo27

EuropeanSon wrote: »

So where was the money for the stadium supposed to come from?

You clearly have no idea what you're on about, you should probably just drop the subject before your ignorance becomes even more obvious.

How long before the stadium excuse is gone. I'm not being smart either. Are we still going be hearing it in 5 years.

gosplan

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Arsenal have accepted champions league qualification as their measure of success for a number of years now. They are a wealthy club that could buy nearly any player they want. Wenger was a great manager and can be again but won't be at Arsenal imo. His biggest and probably only weakness is aside from Ozil which i'm still not sure about, name a big player he bought at the top of his game which improved in their time there.

He's probably the best manager in the would at identifying something in a player, taking a gamble and turning them into superstars but actually buying world class and fitting them into his team then no.

Setting a salary cap and trying to defend it says more about the Arsenal board than anything.

There are a handful of clubs that can buy world class players at their peak.

Arsenal have never really done it. Neither have Utd tbh, unless you count Veron or Berbatov.

It's a very weird thing to try and slate a club and manager over.

thelad95

Oat23 wrote: »

Giggs is like 60 and still playing.

No. Giggs is 40.

Oat23 wrote: »

Ferguson jumped at the right time, just before a rebuild was needed. Fair play to him for realising it and getting out.

Fergie would have been able to rebuild the team. He just felt he wasn't up to it at his age. He owed Manchester United absolutely nothing and saying he jumped is disrespectful to his legacy at Manchester United. The biggest mistake he made as Manchester United, even worse than signing Bebe on a hunch or letting Paul Pogba go was recommending David Moyes to be his successor. Privately, I imagine it torments him greatly and I don't think he will lose too much sleep over his imminent sacking but will probably be regretful it didn't work out.

If we gave Moyes the next 5 years he might get it together but apparently if you gave a monkey a typewriter and an infinite amount of time he would type the whole works of shakespeare. A club like ourselves can absorb one season like this but can't afford another few years like this. Goodbye David Moyes. Sorry it didn't work out.

fatherted1969

EuropeanSon wrote: »

So where was the money for the stadium supposed to come from?

You clearly have no idea what you're on about, you should probably just drop the subject before your ignorance becomes even more obvious.

10 years without challenging for a title and your defending it is laughable. Touched a nerve methinks but its only my opinion, was it last year they were pictured celebrating 4th place in the dressing room as if they'd won the league, embarrassing.

fatherted1969

Dcully wrote: »

They are the very definition of mediocrity right now.

Mediocrity over a season alright but it will be corrected, of that i'm certain. Roll on next season

Mr.Micro

thelad95 wrote: »

No. Giggs is 40.



Fergie would have been able to rebuild the team. He just felt he wasn't up to it at his age. He owed Manchester United absolutely nothing and saying he jumped is disrespectful to his legacy at Manchester United. The biggest mistake he made as Manchester United, even worse than signing Bebe on a hunch or letting Paul Pogba go was recommending David Moyes to be his successor. Privately, I imagine it torments him greatly and I don't think he will lose too much sleep over his imminent sacking but will probably be regretful it didn't work out.

If we gave Moyes the next 5 years he might get it together but apparently if you gave a monkey a typewriter and an infinite amount of time he would type the whole works of shakespeare. A club like ourselves can absorb one season like this but can't afford another few years like this. Goodbye David Moyes. Sorry it didn't work out.

Ferguson made mistakes, just like any other manager. He may well feel that Moyes was right for the job, but it would take time. Moyes did not get to buy his own players, so we may never truly know how successful he could have become, if he had been allowed to develop the team in his own style.

Mr.Micro

fatherted1969 wrote: »

10 years without challenging for a title and your defending it is laughable. Touched a nerve methinks but its only my opinion, was it last year they were pictured celebrating 4th place in the dressing room as if they'd won the league, embarrassing.

Not something that United will be doing this season, ironically.

Oat23

thelad95 wrote: »

Fergie would have been able to rebuild the team. He just felt he wasn't up to it at his age. He owed Manchester United absolutely nothing and saying he jumped is disrespectful to his legacy at Manchester United.

I said this in my next post if you continued reading. What I said was misinterpreted.

fatherted1969

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Not something that United will be doing this season, ironically.

But al least if rumours are to be believed then they are going to act on it. I could tolerate a season or two of rebuilding because we haven't targeted our problem positions for a number of years now, but i could never accept anything less than a good campaign and challenge right to the end.

Champions league qualification would never be a measure of success for me. I've defended Moyes throughout and said all along he needs time to rebuild but over the last couple of months he's lost the players and there's no way back from that. The team selection yesterday was actually fairly good but the performance from them was terrible

thelad95

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Ferguson made mistakes, just like any other manager. He may well feel that Moyes was right for the job, but it would take time. Moyes did not get to buy his own players, so we may never truly know how successful he could have become, if he had been allowed to develop the team in his own style.

Moyes had all of last summer and the month of January to bring in his own players. Instead of making signings, he dithered and dathered for weeks on end, making laughable bids. I think we could have actually gotten Fabregas and/or Herrera last season but he just wasn't ruthless enough to finish the deals. Instead of overpaying for them, he overpayed for Mata and Fellaini, neither of whom were anywhere near the answer to our problems (although I believe they will both gain cult status over the next few years).

Ultimately Moyes just wasn't charasmatic, ruthless, or clever enough to be Manchester United's manager. He was out of his depth from day one and sadly was always destined for failure.

5starpool

sea_monkey wrote: »

Points in first 50 matches. they took into account CL matches for moyes as he hasnt been in charge of 50PL matches. its a stupid chart.

A stupid chart with awful maths as the points totals aren't right in some cases.

gosplan

fatherted1969 wrote: »

10 years without challenging for a title and your defending it is laughable. Touched a nerve methinks but its only my opinion, was it last year they were pictured celebrating 4th place in the dressing room as if they'd won the league, embarrassing.

Just when you'd started feeling sorry for Utd and that perhaps enough was enough.

Thanks for reminding me

Will I Amnt

Oat23 wrote: »

He has hardly set the world alight this season. No goals, no assists. He barely played last season as well.
He looked like he didn't give a sh*t yesterday either.

Not worth his salary.

He did look like he couldn't give a sh*t yesterday, as did many of the squad this season. He has it in his locker, given the opportunity to play week in week out he has shown himself to be a very good player. He has been out of favour with Fergie and injured for large parts of recent times. I wouldn't be devestated to see him go but he is as I said, far from terrible.

Donnielighto

fatherted1969 wrote: »

10 years without challenging for a title and your defending it is laughable. Touched a nerve methinks but its only my opinion, was it last year they were pictured celebrating 4th place in the dressing room as if they'd won the league, embarrassing.

Stop embarrassing utd fans. Wenger has done an unparralled job in top level football.

Donnielighto

gosplan wrote: »

Just when you'd started feeling sorry for Utd and that perhaps enough was enough.

Thanks for reminding me

I think wenger is class...

EuropeanSon

fatherted1969 wrote: »

10 years without challenging for a title and your defending it is laughable. Touched a nerve methinks but its only my opinion, was it last year they were pictured celebrating 4th place in the dressing room as if they'd won the league, embarrassing.

Might want to fix your definition of challenging for. Top for most of the season certainly looks like a challenge, just because it faltered doesn't change that.

And your ability to read for that matter, as you clearly didn't attempt to address my point.

fatherted1969

Donnielighto wrote: »

Stop embarrassing utd fans. Wenger has done an unparralled job in top level football.

I've said he's a brilliant manager check my post i just said i don't think he'll ever get them back to where they were

messinkiapina

I might cause a meltdown with this question.... but how would United fans feel about appointing Rafa Benitez?

seligehgit

Who's the favourite to get the job long term if the axe falls?

messinkiapina

messinkiapina wrote: »

I might cause a meltdown with this question.... but how would United fans feel about appointing Rafa Benitez?

As a Liverpool fan I'd hate for that to happen tbh.

seligehgit

seligehgit wrote: »

Who's the favourite to get the job long term if the axe falls?

Van Gal but Giggs odds have tumbled. He's now 3rd favourite

Schwiiing

seligehgit wrote: »

Who's the favourite to get the job long term if the axe falls?

Would love De Boer Garcia Klopp or Simeone.

Agent Coulson

Two previous Swansea managers leading the chase for CL football.

I'd say Laudrup is nailed on to be the next Utd manager. He's a free agent and won't cost money to buy out of a contract, He is a sexy enough name in football not to have the stock market crash the Utd shares (which is all the Glasers care about really).

So I say Utd follow suit and go for a former Swansea manager.

messinkiapina

rarnes1 wrote: »

Van Gal but Giggs odds have tumbled. He's now 3rd favourite

Giggs would be a really stupid appointment. Replace a guy who was proven quality at a mid-table club (but unproven at the top level) with a guy who is unproven at every level? I'd love it to be true, but it just cannot be!

gosplan

messinkiapina wrote: »

I might cause a meltdown with this question.... but how would United fans feel about appointing Rafa Benitez?

I'm not a Utd fan and obviously they'd have issues with him but he'd be good IMO.

Was arguing the other day that last year, he did every bit as well as Jose has done this year, only without spending 100 million and blaming everyone else.

I don't think he'd take Utd where they want to be but if you need a guy to spend a couple if years steadying the ship and changing the squad a bit, he'd be a good choice.

Turtwig

messinkiapina wrote: »

Giggs would be a really stupid appointment. Replace a guy who was proven quality at a mid-table club (but unproven at the top level) with a guy who is unproven at every level? I'd love it to be true, but it just cannot be!

Giggs would be a good interim appointment until the end of the season. Benitez wouldn't necessarily be a bad replacement. He's been largely consistent wherever he goes. Klopp or Blanc would be better replacements. Van Gal is a bit of a character but not a bad choice either.

ThirdMan

messinkiapina wrote: »

I might cause a meltdown with this question.... but how would United fans feel about appointing Rafa Benitez?

I would have no problem with Rafa the person, and that includes his links to Anfield. But as a manager I'm just not sure he has what it takes. He hasn't got the X-factor, and that could be important when trying to draw players to a club that aren't in the Champions League.

5starpool

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Two previous Swansea managers leading the chase for CL football.

I'd say Laudrup is nailed on to be the next Utd manager. He's a free agent and won't cost money to buy out of a contract, He is a sexy enough name in football not to have the stock market crash the Utd shares (which is all the Glasers care about really).

So I say Utd follow suit and go for a former Swansea manager.

Laudrup would not be a good appointment for utd. He has started well but quickly faded nearly everywhere he has been manager.

Oat23

Klopp just shot down rumours of him going to Barca a few days ago. He's hardly going to go to United.

He'll be at Dortmund for the forseeable future.

Rayne Wooney

Oat23 wrote: »

Klopp just shot down rumours of him going to Barca a few days ago. He's hardly going to go to United.

He'll be at Dortmund for the forseeable future.

We aren't Barcelona though in fairness

Soups123

5starpool wrote: »

Laudrup would not be a good appointment for utd. He has started well but quickly faded nearly everywhere he has been manager.

Many managers would be more appealed by a Club like United than they would be by a club like Barca

Rayne Wooney

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

We aren't Barcelona though in fairness

Exactly