Is packaged ham REALLY that bad?

purplecow1977

Is it really that bad for the 'average' person or is just the equivalent of garlic to a vampire for the extremely health conscious amongst us?

Ham & cheese toasties are just so easy & tasty for lunchtimes! :-(

If it really IS that bad, what are the alternatives? Freshly carved ham from the deli counter?

El_Dangeroso

As with anything, the dose makes the poison.

If it's one ham and cheese toastie a week (btw, shop-bought bread and processed cheese aren't super healthy either) and you're otherwise in good health and a healthy weight I wouldn't let it bother you.

But if it's everyday then maybe not. From the most conservative estimates of observational studies, 50g a day of processed meat is the limit, but that could be that people who eat a lot of processed meat don't have great diets to begin with.

Fresh meat is best though, so get your meat needs from fresh wherever possible and don't sweat the odd slice of ham. (fresh everything else is also a good rule of thumb!)

dor843088

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Is it really that bad for the 'average' person or is just the equivalent of garlic to a vampire for the extremely health conscious amongst us?

Ham & cheese toasties are just so easy & tasty for lunchtimes! :-(

If it really IS that bad, what are the alternatives? Freshly carved ham from the deli counter?

No its not that bad. Is it the healthiest choice ? No . Is it the worst choice ? No.

whirlpool

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Is it really that bad for the 'average' person or is just the equivalent of garlic to a vampire for the extremely health conscious amongst us?

Ham & cheese toasties are just so easy & tasty for lunchtimes! :-(

If it really IS that bad, what are the alternatives? Freshly carved ham from the deli counter?

I suppose it really depends on who you ask. A vegetarian organic-crazy person will tell you it's the worst thing ever. Someone on your more average kind of diet will tell you it's grand. It's going to be hard to get a regulated answer. Is there anything specifically in the packaged ham that you'd be concerned about?

For me personally, I decided recently to remove processed meats from my diet, as I've read a tonne of info about processed foods and meats lacking nutrients and containing damaging chemicals. Myself, I can't say for certain that that is correct information, but I've had to just make the best decision I can with the information I've read that I trust the most.

conzy

I eat a full packet of ham as a snack most days, have not died yet.

~100 cals ~20g of protein ~2g of fat

mickman

conzy wrote: »

I eat a full packet of ham as a snack most days, have not died yet.

~100 cals ~20g of protein ~2g of fat

A packet of processed ham a day is terribly bad for you. And i presume you mean 100 cals per slice

maximoose

mickman wrote: »

And i presume you mean 100 cals per slice

I doubt it. It's around 10cal per slice in most of Denny's range anyway.

Kyro

mickman wrote: »

A packet of processed ham a day is terribly bad for you. And i presume you mean 100 cals per slice

What's so terribly bad about it?

Ash.J.Williams

Kyro wrote: »

What's so terribly bad about it?

it's processed, pumped with a salt solution, not great for your stomach in large doses, can contribute to cancer like all processed stuff.....

but then again....doesn't everything

i'd prefer slices off the cut, however the cheaper packaged slices would be made of many types of pig meat compressed in a container and baked giving it a square or rounded shape that's easy to slice. (like sausages only without the gristle and spices)

Even the proper ham (think it's a hind quarter) is pumped with a solution and cured in a tank of salt for days.

mickman

Kyro wrote: »

What's so terribly bad about it?

Nitrates and heaps of salt

jane82

Great source of protein when theres nothing else in the fridge.
Bit salty but so is salt.

Alf Veedersane

A pack has less than half a gram of salt in 100g.
112 kcal (based on Denny's crumbed ham).

It's not my idea of fine dining but I don't think Conzy is going to be on his death bed from eating it anytime soon.

Unless he's distracted by a passing pack as he benches and dies when he drops the bar on himself.

mickman

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

A pack has less than half a gram of salt in 100g.
112 kcal (based on Denny's crumbed ham).

It's not my idea of fine dining but I don't think Conzy is going to be on his death bed from eating it anytime soon.

Unless he's distracted by a passing pack as he benches and dies when he drops the bar on himself.

Toxin ingestion in processed meat won't kill you right away but it will cause a build up in the body and eventually lead to disease

Alf Veedersane

mickman wrote: »

Toxin ingestion in processed meat won't kill you right away but it will cause a build up in the body and eventually lead to disease

He's talking about 100g. There won't be enough toxins in there to eventually definitely result in disease.

Essien

For me, it's the type of thing where the threat is just so remote and vague that I just can't see myself ever caring enough to not eat ham.

purplecow1977

Thanks guys.
I have an 'okay' diet otherwise but it's not extremely healthy - I eat crisps and chocolate and drink alcohol but I had heard reports about packaged ham linked to some forms of cancers and just wanted to see if it was an urban myth or what.

I don't think 1 slice of ham a day is going to kill me!

whirlpool

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Thanks guys.
I have an 'okay' diet otherwise but it's not extremely healthy - I eat crisps and chocolate and drink alcohol but I had heard reports about packaged ham linked to some forms of cancers and just wanted to see if it was an urban myth or what.

I don't think 1 slice of ham a day is going to kill me!

No, it's more likely to be the crisps and chocolate and alcohol that kill you :P

But no I don't think 1 slice a day is going to kill you. While eating that diet, you mightn't be the healthiest you could be, or feel the best you could feel, but unless you're willing to cut out most of the junk in your diet then I wouldn't be getting bogged down with 1 slice of ham a day.

purplecow1977

whirlpool wrote: »

No, it's more likely to be the crisps and chocolate and alcohol that kill you :P

But no I don't think 1 slice a day is going to kill you. While eating that diet, you mightn't be the healthiest you could be, or feel the best you could feel, but unless you're willing to cut out most of the junk in your diet then I wouldn't be getting bogged down with 1 slice of ham a day.

I could have predicted people would hone in on that!!!

Small changes eh!!

conzy

These threads are hilarious

I eat a packet of ham / chicken / tuna / roast beef as a high protein snack and im going to get cancer?

I think I'll just start eating Nutri-grains and Belvita "Breakfast Biscuits" instead

purplecow1977

conzy wrote: »

These threads are hilarious

I eat a packet of ham / chicken / tuna / roast beef as a high protein snack and im going to get cancer?

I think I'll just start eating Nutri-grains and Belvita "Breakfast Biscuits" instead

You're easily entertained.

conzy

Ham is serious business

dor843088

conzy wrote: »

These threads are hilarious

I eat a packet of ham / chicken / tuna / roast beef as a high protein snack and im going to get cancer?

I think I'll just start eating Nutri-grains and Belvita "Breakfast Biscuits" instead

Nutrition and diet threads have always been hilarious. Mention bread for guaranteed comedy.

purplecow1977

dor843088 wrote: »

Nutrition and diet threads have always been hilarious. Mention bread for guaranteed comedy.

WHITE bread?! :P :eek:

mickman

conzy wrote: »

These threads are hilarious

I eat a packet of ham / chicken / tuna / roast beef as a high protein snack and im going to get cancer?

I think I'll just start eating Nutri-grains and Belvita "Breakfast Biscuits" instead

Well you have a 1 in 3 chance of getting cancer in your lifetime anyway. Adding known carcinogens into your diet won't help your cause

Alf Veedersane

I nearly got knocked down as I crossed the road at the weekend to buy ham in the shop.

Q.E.D.

Amirani

mickman wrote: »

Well you have a 1 in 3 chance of getting cancer in your lifetime anyway. Adding known carcinogens into your diet won't help your cause

The fact that 1 in 3 people get cancer doesn't necessarily mean that you automatically have a 1 in 3 chance of getting cancer.

NoPainNoGain

Do you ever look at the pork content on the back of the packets? Scary on some branded products :-O

Ludikrus

conzy wrote: »

I eat a full packet of ham as a snack most days, have not died yet.

~100 cals ~20g of protein ~2g of fat

Buy yourself a cooked ham hock from a supermarket or butchers hot food counter instead. They're about 4 or 5 quid, just as convenient and far nicer ham.

El_Dangeroso

People joke, but we used to have shocking rates of stomach cancer in this country. There were no fridges in homes, most meats were heavily salted to preserve them. When fridges made an appearance, stomach cancer became very rare.

I don't know if it's causation or not, but I'm sure as hell not taking the chance.

ezra_pound

mickman wrote: »

A packet of processed ham a day is terribly bad for you. And i presume you mean 100 cals per slice

Isn't all ham processed?

Akrasia

mickman wrote: »

Toxin ingestion in processed meat won't kill you right away but it will cause a build up in the body and eventually lead to disease

And what 'toxins' are these?

Akrasia

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

People joke, but we used to have shocking rates of stomach cancer in this country. There were no fridges in homes, most meats were heavily salted to preserve them. When fridges made an appearance, stomach cancer became very rare.

I don't know if it's causation or not, but I'm sure as hell not taking the chance.

Might also have been the gallons of Poitin people were horsing into themselves every night

Akrasia

ezra_pound wrote: »

Isn't all ham processed?

Yeah. A lot (possibly all?) of the deli ham that you presume is a from a full joint of ham, is actually reformed ham that's no different to the stuff in the packets (some suppliers are higher quality than others)

mickman

Akrasia wrote: »

And what 'toxins' are these?

Nitrates

El_Dangeroso

Akrasia wrote: »

Might also have been the gallons of Poitin people were horsing into themselves every night

Not likely considering it affected women and men equally, and women did not drink as much as men in those times if at all.

Orla K

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

As with anything, the dose makes the poison.

If it's one ham and cheese toastie a week (btw, shop-bought bread and processed cheese aren't super healthy either) and you're otherwise in good health and a healthy weight I wouldn't let it bother you.

But if it's everyday then maybe not. From the most conservative estimates of observational studies, 50g a day of processed meat is the limit, but that could be that people who eat a lot of processed meat don't have great diets to begin with.

Fresh meat is best though, so get your meat needs from fresh wherever possible and don't sweat the odd slice of ham. (fresh everything else is also a good rule of thumb!)

You can probably ignore all posts after this one, it's mostly just 'I eat ham and I haven't died yet' or 'that s**t will give you cancer' A lot of things just fall into a grey area of healthy.

Orla K

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Not likely considering it affected women and men equally, and women did not drink as much as men in those times if at all.

About what year did fridges come into Ireland?

I'm looking after my granny today and I have to ask her about this.
She's also told me before that she used to have to cure the meat when she was young and she was saying that what was used to cure it later turned out to be pretty toxic stuff. Also she was saying that women didn't really drink, few women would even go into pubs, they'd be separate from the men and all they'd be served was sherry. To be even tipsy as a woman was a disgrace.

Amazingfun

mickman wrote: »

Nitrates

http://chriskresser.com/the-nitrate-and-nitrite-myth-another-reason-not-to-fear-bacon

The belief that nitrates and nitrates cause serious health problems has been entrenched in popular consciousness and media. Watch this video clip to see Steven Colbert explain how the coming bacon shortage will prolong our lives thanks to reduced nitrates in our diets.

In fact, the study that originally connected nitrates with cancer risk and caused the scare in the first place has since been discredited after being subjected to a peer review. There have been major reviews of the scientific literature that found no link between nitrates or nitrites and human cancers, or even evidence to suggest that they may be carcinogenic. Further, recent research suggests that nitrates and nitrites may not only be harmless, they may be beneficial, especially for immunity and heart health.

jester77

Packaged ham is reformed ham and no where near as good as a proper slice of ham and usually full of a lot of crap. Next time you are eating a slice, hold it up against the light and you will see where it has been reprocessed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeEtO1wLS-k

moc moc a moc

mickman wrote: »

Nitrates

Right, you're going to have to start providing sources for these claims if you want anybody to take you seriously. You've made three or four unsubstantiated claims on this thread and so far, all it looks like you're doing at the moment is spewing FUD and arguing for the sake of it.

(Personally, the fact that you thought a single slice of ham could possibly contain 100 calories is enough to dismiss you as someone who has no idea what they're talking about)

Akrasia

mickman wrote: »

Nitrates

First of all, there are more Nitrates/Nitrites in vegetables than there are in processed meats,
Secondly, Nitrates/Nitrites do not cause harm to the human body and are in fact essential for a healthy digestion

Nitrates don't persist in your body. Nitrates are produced naturally in your own body, are present in your saliva in greater quantities than in any processed meat, and excess nitrates are urinated out as a normal waste product.
http://healthworkscollective.com/drterrysimpson/81016/are-nitrates-or-nitrites-bad-not-really

ford2600

I eat a lot of meat.

I come from a farming background and IMHO it is hard not to get quality Irish beef/lamb, as it is for most part grass fed and outside most of the year. Doesn't need to be organic.

As someone who has been in pig farms the contrast is stark
* 100% of their life is indoors
* They stand, lie on concrete slats over tanks of their own waste all day every day
* temperature is kept artifically high
* They eat only concentrate
* They are fed antibiotics to fight disease

It's pretty ****e meat to start with processed or not. Conditions are similar to chicken "farming"

Both might be healthy food choices but I really doubt it

Dotcomdolly

I don't buy the likes of Denny etc but I do eat prosciutto ham as the ingredients list is way shorter.

mickman

ford2600 wrote: »

I eat a lot of meat.

I come from a farming background and IMHO it is hard not to get quality Irish beef/lamb, as it is for most part grass fed and outside most of the year. Doesn't need to be organic.

As someone who has been in pig farms the contrast is stark
* 100% of their life is indoors
* They stand, lie on concrete slats over tanks of their own waste all day every day
* temperature is kept artifically high
* They eat only concentrate
* They are fed antibiotics to fight disease

It's pretty ****e meat to start with processed or not. Conditions are similar to chicken "farming"

Both might be healthy food choices but I really doubt it

Yes, Irish beef is very good

TimeToShine

I'd be more worried about the white bread and cheese than the ham but that's just me!

runawaybishop

People spend too much time worrying. A ham and cheese sandwich on white would be fairly far down on my list of "things that might kill me I need to worry about".

purplecow1977

runawaybishop wrote: »

People spend too much time worrying. A ham and cheese sandwich on white would be fairly far down on my list of "things that might kill me I need to worry about".

Yeah, like that galaxy bar I ate yesterday! :P

Alf Veedersane

runawaybishop wrote: »

People spend too much time worrying. A ham and cheese sandwich on white would be fairly far down on my list of "things that might kill me I need to worry about".

Ham + cheese + white bread = Cancer + ebola + Aids.

mufcboy1999

Some of the salt content in packaged ham's is ridiculous too, for anyone watching their sodium intake stay away from it.

dor843088

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Ham + cheese + white bread = Cancer + ebola + Aids.

Washed down with a coke for extra diabetes.

El_Dangeroso

Orla K wrote: »

About what year did fridges come into Ireland?

I'm looking after my granny today and I have to ask her about this.
She's also told me before that she used to have to cure the meat when she was young and she was saying that what was used to cure it later turned out to be pretty toxic stuff. Also she was saying that women didn't really drink, few women would even go into pubs, they'd be separate from the men and all they'd be served was sherry. To be even tipsy as a woman was a disgrace.

I'm guessing very late 60's for the well off, 70's for everyone else.

Fridges came with their own set of problems however, the bacteria that purportedly causes crohns disease grows very well at fridge temps. So crohns was very rare prior to the advent of refrigeration.

Swings and roundabouts.