Is packaged ham REALLY that bad?

dor843088

New thread are fridges really that bad ?

El_Dangeroso

dor843088 wrote: »

New thread are fridges really that bad ?

They are worse than hitler.

jane82

Sure its presses and cupboards you wanna watch out for.
In every kitchen food cupboard there is a whole tub of salt.
A whole tub.

dor843088

jane82 wrote: »

Sure its presses and cupboards you wanna watch out for.
In every kitchen food cupboard there is a whole tub of salt.
A whole tub.

I just hope it's a bpa free tub .

Alf Veedersane

I once heard of a press that had salt and sugar in it.

I didn't ask if a full inventory showed a tub of lard as well because I was in shock.

Ann Landers

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Fridges came with their own set of problems however, the bacteria that purportedly causes crohns disease grows very well at fridge temps. So crohns was very rare prior to the advent of refrigeration.

Which is bacteria is that? AFAIK, there is still a lot of uncertainty about what causes Crohn's. I'm not sure refrigeration has anything to do with Crohn's. There might be a correlation and, well, we all know the rest.

We know that Crohn's is very much a first world illness, especially prevalent in industrialised areas. There are different theories about why this is. Helminthic therapy is something being mooted, the lack of worms may unbalance the microbiological profile of the gut. Autoimmunity, genetic factors etc.

El_Dangeroso

Ann Landers wrote: »

Which is bacteria is that? AFAIK, there is still a lot of uncertainty about what causes Crohn's. I'm not sure refrigeration has anything to do with Crohn's. There might be a correlation and, well, we all know the rest.

We know that Crohn's is very much a first world illness, especially prevalent in industrialised areas. There are different theories about why this is. Helminthic therapy is something being mooted, the lack of worms may unbalance the microbiological profile of the gut. Autoimmunity, genetic factors etc.

There is a lot of uncertainty, hence 'purportedly'. It's a new hypothesis, but probably the most compelling one:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/4849.php

also:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19177167

But since we're not all getting it, I don't doubt genetic predisposition and/or underlying dysbiosis of some sort also plays a role.

It's a fecker of a disease either way. Looking forward to more research on stem-cell therapy, that seems to be getting amazing rates of remission in early trials.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/804570

metamorphosis

Some of the claims in this thread will probably lower your life expectancy that eating actual ham ...

Anyway, like most things ... a bit here and there won't do harm.

Personally, not a massive ham fan, gimme out the beef instead

Ann Landers

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

There is a lot of uncertainty, hence 'purportedly'.

This just threw me:

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

So crohns was very rare prior to the advent of refrigeration.

For me, personally, I'd be leaning towards the dysbiosis idea.

The psychrophilic bacteria mentioned can be eliminated by keeping the fridge closer to zero than 4 degrees, though that can't always be monitored as many foods go into the freeze at much higher than 4 degrees which affect the fridge temp for a while, as can opening and closing the door often.

El_Dangeroso

Ann Landers wrote: »

For me, personally, I'd be leaning towards the dysbiosis idea.

Yep, it's complex that's for sure, but the evidence for refrigeration is pretty strong, independent of other factors which would definitely contribute.

Would people consider good quality rashers (97%+ pork) to be as bad as packaged ham? If so I'm bollocksed... and I think I'd rather die a few years younger than give up having eggs and rashers for breakfast.

Ann Landers

gvn wrote: »

Would people consider good quality rashers (97%+ pork) to be as bad as packaged ham? If so I'm bollocksed... and I think I'd rather die a few years younger than give up having eggs and rashers for breakfast.

No, rashers would be better for you. Less processed.

El_Dangeroso

gvn wrote: »

Would people consider good quality rashers (97%+ pork) to be as bad as packaged ham? If so I'm bollocksed... and I think I'd rather die a few years younger than give up having eggs and rashers for breakfast.

Drink a glass of orange juice with it, the antioxidants help counteract the AGEs in the bacon, red wine will also work, but I don't think you want to be drinking wine for breakfast.

Orla K

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Drink a glass of orange juice with it, the antioxidants help counteract the AGEs in the bacon, red wine will also work, but I don't think you want to be drinking wine for breakfast.

Woo! I would so drink red wine for breakfast! (maybe lunch and dinner too)

El_Dangeroso

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Drink a glass of orange juice with it, the antioxidants help counteract the AGEs in the bacon, red wine will also work, but I don't think you want to be drinking wine for breakfast.

Let's not rule that out.

Ann Landers

Orla K wrote: »

Woo! I would so drink red wine for breakfast! (maybe lunch and dinner too)

I wouldn't because it'd make me want to spend the rest of the day snoozing. :pac: I know in some countries people will have beer with breakfast or lunch and it's normal, with no harm done. I just couldn't do it though, booze makes me so sleepy. When I feel sleepy at night from booze, it feels more normal because it's a time I'd be getting sleepy anyway!

Alf Veedersane

The recipe for success sounds like rashers and wine for breakfast followed by a trip to the gym to do some shrugs to make it extra French.

norwegianwood

I've studied this a bit in college, and while it's probably not going to have a detrimental effect in moderate doses, it's not going to do wonders for your health either. Processed ham, depending on the quality, will be pumped with varying amounts of preservatives like salt, sugar, nitrates/nitrites and ascorbic acid, probably stuff your body can do without. Under certain conditions, the presence of nitrites can lead to nitrosamine formation which have been shown to be carcinogenic. But then, unless you're eating 20 packets of ham a day there's probably nothing to worry about, I wish packet ham was the worst thing about my diet.:pac:

Amazingfun

Processed ham, depending on the quality, will be pumped with varying amounts of preservatives like salt, sugar, nitrates/nitrites and ascorbic acid, probably stuff your body can do without.

:rolleyes:

The belief that nitrates and nitrates cause serious health problems has been entrenched in popular consciousness and media. Watch this video clip to see Steven Colbert explain how the coming bacon shortage will prolong our lives thanks to reduced nitrates in our diets.

In fact, the study that originally connected nitrates with cancer risk and caused the scare in the first place has since been discredited after being subjected to a peer review. There have been major reviews of the scientific literature that found no link between nitrates or nitrites and human cancers, or even evidence to suggest that they may be carcinogenic. Further, recent research suggests that nitrates and nitrites may not only be harmless, they may be beneficial, especially for immunity and heart health.

http://chriskresser.com/the-nitrate-and-nitrite-myth-another-reason-not-to-fear-bacon

mickman

Amazingfun wrote: »

:rolleyes:





http://chriskresser.com/the-nitrate-and-nitrite-myth-another-reason-not-to-fear-bacon

Hardly someone who is a world renowned nutrionalist


My name is Chris Kresser, and I'm a licensed acupuncturist and practitioner of integrative medicine

Amazingfun

mickman wrote: »

Hardly someone who is a world renowned nutrionalist


My name is Chris Kresser, and I'm a licensed acupuncturist and practitioner of integrative medicine

:rolleyes:

If you disagree with him, as your tone suggests, any chance you could argue with the actual evidence he presents instead of attacking him?

**evidence can be found in the links/notes in blue embedded throughout the article

dor843088

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0qIdat6xDI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

mickman

Amazingfun wrote: »

:rolleyes:

If you disagree with him, as your tone suggests, any chance you could argue with the actual evidence he presents instead of attacking him?

**evidence can be found in the links/notes in blue embedded throughout the article

Its highly irresponsible for this chap to be going around saying nitrates are good for you

Amazingfun

mickman wrote: »

Its highly irresponsible for this chap to be going around saying nitrates are good for you

Ummmm: why is that?

mickman

Amazingfun wrote: »

Ummmm: why is that?

as he is not qualified to do so

norwegianwood

Never said they caused cancer, just that your body doesn't need them, no need for the passive aggression. But then, who am I to question the word of chriskresser.com.

Amazingfun

mickman wrote: »

as he is not qualified to do so

Says who? You? lol.

And why didn't you deal with the evidence he presented, as requested?

Amazingfun

norwegianwood wrote: »

Never said they caused cancer, just that your body doesn't need them, no need for the passive aggression. But then, who am I to question the word of chriskresser.com.

But it's not "Chris Kesser's word", is it? Look at the studies he presented to buoy his argument. And by the way this was all discussed in the early pages of this thread, hence my *eyeroll* when the "nitrates are bad" stuff started up again.

**You know we have nitrates in our saliva?

When it comes to food, vegetables are the primary source of nitrites. On average, about 93% of nitrites we get from food come from vegetables. It may shock you to learn that one serving of arugula, two servings of butter lettuce, and four servings of celery or beets all have more nitrite than 467 hot dogs. (2) And your own saliva has more nitrites than all of them! So before you eliminate cured meats from your diet, you might want to address your celery intake. And try not to swallow so frequently.

El_Dangeroso

Nitrates are a red herring when it comes to cured meats. It's most likely Advanced Glycation Endproducts (AGEs) that cause an issue if anything.

nice_guy80

TimeToShine wrote: »

I'd be more worried about the white bread and cheese than the ham but that's just me!

bingo.
why have ham when you can have egg. or tuna.

mickman

Amazingfun wrote: »

Says who? You? lol.

And why didn't you deal with the evidence he presented, as requested?

Do you bow down to CHris Kesser every evening before bedtime ?

Eat your packaged ham like a good lad

Ashbx

There is a programme on Channel 4 (I don't want to name it incase its not allowed!) that ring the likes of Denny support and ask them questions about the product. So one particular one he did was about processed meat. Its a very informative programme and if you are genuinely interested in this, you should give it watch.

The only one I did watch was actually about processed ham and he questioned everything they put on the label. Not sure if all of them are the same but the main issue with these hams is that, yes its all from the same part of the animal (like the leg) but the one slice of ham you have, could have 10 different pigs legs in it! Whereas, you buy a joint of ham in a butcher and that is obviously all from one animal. The other thing was the "glue" that they used...this is the nasty part. If a mod can confirm I can name the programme, I will but defo suggest you should give it a watch and you may think twice about processed ham going forward.

mickman

Ashbx wrote: »

There is a programme on Channel 4 (I don't want to name it incase its not allowed!) that ring the likes of Denny support and ask them questions about the product. So one particular one he did was about processed meat. Its a very informative programme and if you are genuinely interested in this, you should give it watch.

The only one I did watch was actually about processed ham and he questioned everything they put on the label. Not sure if all of them are the same but the main issue with these hams is that, yes its all from the same part of the animal (like the leg) but the one slice of ham you have, could have 10 different sheeps legs in it! Whereas, you buy a joint of ham in a butcher and that is obviously all from one animal. The other thing was the "glue" that they used...this is the nasty part. If a mod can confirm I can name the programme, I will but defo suggest you should give it a watch and you may think twice about processed ham going forward.

That is just gross! meat from different animals

conzy

Ashbx wrote: »

There is a programme on Channel 4 (I don't want to name it incase its not allowed!) that ring the likes of Denny support and ask them questions about the product. So one particular one he did was about processed meat. Its a very informative programme and if you are genuinely interested in this, you should give it watch.

The only one I did watch was actually about processed ham and he questioned everything they put on the label. Not sure if all of them are the same but the main issue with these hams is that, yes its all from the same part of the animal (like the leg) but the one slice of ham you have, could have 10 different sheeps legs in it! Whereas, you buy a joint of ham in a butcher and that is obviously all from one animal. The other thing was the "glue" that they used...this is the nasty part. If a mod can confirm I can name the programme, I will but defo suggest you should give it a watch and you may think twice about processed ham going forward.

I will stop eating packaged ham if there is sheep in it alright

Ashbx

conzy wrote: »

I will stop eating packaged ham if there is sheep in it alright

I cant believe I actually wrote that! That should read pig!

Ashbx

conzy wrote: »

I will stop eating packaged ham if there is sheep in it alright

Well with all this horse meat etc, you just never know, could be a bit of sheep in there too

mickman

Ashbx wrote: »

Well with all this horse meat etc, you just never know, could be a bit of sheep in there too

this is the problem. with meat in packets, we just dont know what is in it

maximoose

Why could you not name the program? Sounds like Dispatches.

Ashbx

maximoose wrote: »

Why could you not name the program? Sounds like Dispatches.

Because I never know what can be mentioned and what cant be! Its called Food Unwrapped! http://www.channel4.com/programmes/food-unwrapped

Alf Veedersane

conzy wrote: »

I will stop eating packaged ham if there is sheep in it alright

Mutton dressed as ham, wha'!

norwegianwood

Amazingfun wrote: »

But it's not "Chris Kesser's word", is it? Look at the studies he presented to buoy his argument. And by the way this was all discussed in the early pages of this thread, hence my *eyeroll* when the "nitrates are bad" stuff started up again.

**You know we have nitrates in our saliva?

Yeah I read the earlier stuff, hence why I didn't harp on about nitrates and just mentioned them in passing. I never said they were necessarily bad, just that we don't need to take them in our diet, which is true of many additives. I was more talking about nitrosamines, which may or may not cause cancer and are derived from nitrites. Also, I've spent the past three years studying nutrition at university and have yet to hear one of my lecturers tell us nitrates are something we should include in out diet, and I think I'll take their word over some guy on a website.

purplecow1977

Ashbx wrote: »

There is a programme on Channel 4 (I don't want to name it incase its not allowed!) that ring the likes of Denny support and ask them questions about the product. So one particular one he did was about processed meat. Its a very informative programme and if you are genuinely interested in this, you should give it watch.

The only one I did watch was actually about processed ham and he questioned everything they put on the label. Not sure if all of them are the same but the main issue with these hams is that, yes its all from the same part of the animal (like the leg) but the one slice of ham you have, could have 10 different pigs legs in it! Whereas, you buy a joint of ham in a butcher and that is obviously all from one animal. The other thing was the "glue" that they used...this is the nasty part. If a mod can confirm I can name the programme, I will but defo suggest you should give it a watch and you may think twice about processed ham going forward.

Any food that has been processed in any way always has a risk of having something 'foreign' ending up in the product, accidentally or otherwise.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2095359/Hairdresser-bites-Tesco-sandwich-chews-dirty-false-FINGERNAIL.html

http://www.joe.ie/dumb-it-down/what-can-you-find-in-irish-food-dead-rodents-and-insects-if-youre-really-unlucky/

dor843088

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Any food that has been processed in any way always has a risk of having something 'foreign' ending up in the product, accidentally or otherwise.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2095359/Hairdresser-bites-Tesco-sandwich-chews-dirty-false-FINGERNAIL.html

http://www.joe.ie/dumb-it-down/what-can-you-find-in-irish-food-dead-rodents-and-insects-if-youre-really-unlucky/

Yeah ill stick to the organic veg some farmer has spread cow sh1te all over and not bothered to wash it off so it looks more organic .

mickman

dor843088 wrote: »

Yeah ill stick to the organic veg some farmer has spread cow sh1te all over and not bothered to wash it off so it looks more organic .

What a ridiculous comment

dor843088

mickman wrote: »

Do you bow down to CHris Kesser every evening before bedtime ?

Eat your packaged ham like a good lad

More rediculous than this one?
Mickman is afraid of ham
She gave him a sandwich so he divorced his mam.
He tried to chill and took a blue pill
But silly mickman ended up ill.

runawaybishop

dor843088 wrote: »

Yeah ill stick to the organic veg some farmer has spread cow sh1te all over and not bothered to wash it off so it looks more organic .

Cows dont wander into the veg fields

The term organic is not very well regulated though, it can vary from not spraying a crop X weeks before harvest to never using anything extra at all. I'd rather eat foods that have been treated to remove disease myself.

mickman

runawaybishop wrote: »

Cows dont wander into the veg fields

The term organic is not very well regulated though, it can vary from not spraying a crop X weeks before harvest to never using anything extra at all. I'd rather eat foods that have been treated to remove disease myself.

The key is to "know your farmer"

dor843088

Id rather just eat foods that I enjoy and exercise a degree of common sense instead of spending 99% of my time worrying about the stuff that will make 1% of difference. Eat your greens and take it easy on the junk and stay active. Job done.

mickman

dor843088 wrote: »

Id rather just eat foods that I enjoy and exercise a degree of common sense instead of spending 99% of my time worrying about the stuff that will make 1% of difference. Eat your greens and take it easy on the junk and stay active. Job done.

True