I improved my diet and now I'm unwell

Akrasia

There's some amount of rubbish in this thread

Processed milk versus 'raw milk'.
WTF

Irish fresh milk goes through 3 stages of processing,
1. Seperation (separating the milk into cream, full fat, low fat skimmed milk etc)
2. Homogenisation (using high pressure to break up the larger fat globules to give the milk a more even consistency
3. Pasteurisation - Heating the milk to 73 degrees for 22 seconds and then rapidly cooling it to 4 degrees. This kills the bacteria while preserving the taste and nutritional value of the milk.

There are NO chemicals added to irish fresh milk

If you buy 'raw milk' you're just buying extra creamy milk that still contains all of the bacteria that would have been removed by pasteurisation. (including the possibility of TB, Salmonella, E. coli, Lysteria, Diphtheria, typhoid and streptococcus

In most of the world where pasteurisation is not performed by the milk producers, sensible people boil their milk before drinking it.

marizpan

Akrasia wrote: »

There's some amount of rubbish in this thread

Processed milk versus 'raw milk'.
WTF

Irish fresh milk goes through 3 stages of processing,
1. Seperation (separating the milk into cream, full fat, low fat skimmed milk etc)
2. Homogenisation (using high pressure to break up the larger fat globules to give the milk a more even consistency
3. Pasteurisation - Heating the milk to 73 degrees for 22 seconds and then rapidly cooling it to 4 degrees. This kills the bacteria while preserving the taste and nutritional value of the milk.

There are NO chemicals added to irish fresh milk

If you buy 'raw milk' you're just buying extra creamy milk that still contains all of the bacteria that would have been removed by pasteurisation. (including the possibility of TB, Salmonella, E. coli, Lysteria, Diphtheria, typhoid and streptococcus

In most of the world where pasteurisation is not performed by the milk producers, sensible people boil their milk before drinking it.

3 members of our family out of 5 are intolerant to processed milk and by products.
It causes rashes, acne, runny noses & eyes, itching, sick stomachs etc etc.
But we can consume raw milk and yogurt and cheese made from raw milk with no problems.
I assume that it is the homogenisation process that is the problem, as it alters the fat.
Many people who have problems with milk can drink raw milk.

mickman

marizpan wrote: »

3 members of our family out of 5 are intolerant to processed milk and by products.
It causes rashes, acne, runny noses & eyes, itching, sick stomachs etc etc.
But we can consume raw milk and yogurt and cheese made from raw milk with no problems.
I assume that it is the homogenisation process that is the problem, as it alters the fat.
Many people who have problems with milk can drink raw milk.

someone to prove my point, eventually!

Akrasia

marizpan wrote: »

3 members of our family out of 5 are intolerant to processed milk and by products.
It causes rashes, acne, runny noses & eyes, itching, sick stomachs etc etc.
But we can consume raw milk and yogurt and cheese made from raw milk with no problems.
I assume that it is the homogenisation process that is the problem, as it alters the fat.
Many people who have problems with milk can drink raw milk.

I'm not calling you a liar, but there is an awful lot of confusion out there about food intolerances and there are a lot of charlatans out there who make money from telling people that they have food intolerances.

There are risks associated with raw unpasteurised milk. I would suggest that if you want to avoid homogenised milk, that you should consider boiling your milk yourselves before consuming it.
Here's what the Centers for Disease Control has to say about it

What are the risks associated with drinking raw milk?
Raw milk can carry harmful bacteria and other germs that can make you very sick or kill you. While it is possible to get foodborne illnesses from many different foods, raw milk is one of the riskiest of all.
Getting sick from raw milk can mean many days of diarrhea, stomach cramping, and vomiting. Less commonly, it can mean kidney failure, paralysis, chronic disorders, and even death.
Many people who chose raw milk thinking they would improve their health instead found themselves (or their loved ones) sick in a hospital for several weeks fighting for their lives from infections caused by germs in raw milk. For example, a person can develop severe or even life-threatening diseases, such as Guillain-Barré syndrome, which can cause paralysis, and hemolytic uremic syndrome, which can result in kidney failure and stroke.
Illness can occur from the same brand and source of raw milk that people had been drinking for a long time without becoming ill.
A wide variety of germs that are sometimes found in raw milk, can make people sick, including bacteria (e.g., Brucella, Campylobacter, Listeria, Mycobacterium bovis (a cause of tuberculosis), Salmonella, Shiga toxin-producing Escherichia coli [e.g., E. coli O157], Shigella, Yersinia), parasites (e.g., Giardia), and viruses (e.g., norovirus).
Each ill person’s symptoms can differ, depending on the type of germ, the amount of contamination, and the person’s immune defenses.
Top of Page
Who is at greatest risk of getting sick from drinking raw milk?
The risk of getting sick from drinking raw milk is greater for infants and young children, the elderly, pregnant women, and people with weakened immune systems, such as people with cancer, an organ transplant, or HIV/AIDS, than it is for healthy school-aged children and adults. But, it is important to remember that healthy people of any age can get very sick or even die if they drink raw milk contaminated with harmful germs.
http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-and-answers.html#risks

sopretty

mickman wrote: »

someone to prove my point, eventually!

Remind me - what was your point again?

mickman

sopretty wrote: »

Remind me - what was your point again?

Do you have trouble keeping up ?

Its not neccessarily the milk thats the issue, its what processing does to it that causes problems

Akrasia

mickman wrote: »

someone to prove my point, eventually!

That's not proof, that's anecdotal evidence and anecdotal evidence is very problematic.

One of the first things doctors are taught is that 'In my experience' is not the way to assess the risks or benefits of any treatment. Personal experience is not generalisable, this is why scientists use randomised controlled trials to assess whether treatments are effective.

It's also why blinded controlled samples are essential for a good study. Knowing whether you're receiving the treatment or a placebo will influence how you report the results of the treatment.

sopretty

mickman wrote: »

Do you have trouble keeping up ?

Its not neccessarily the milk thats the issue, its what processing does to it that causes problems

Oh right. I'm a bit slow. Beer does that to me you see.

Akrasia

mickman wrote: »

Do you have trouble keeping up ?

Its not neccessarily the milk thats the issue, its what processing does to it that causes problems

The processing of the milk does nothing that whisking the milk yourself, and boiling it yourself would not do (except if you boiled it, it would do much more to change the taste and nutritional value of the milk than pasteurising does because the temperatures are higher and sustained over a longer period)

mickman

Akrasia wrote: »

The processing of the milk does nothing that whisking the milk yourself, and boiling it yourself would not do (except if you boiled it, it would do much more to change the taste and nutritional value of the milk than pasteurising does because the temperatures are higher and sustained over a longer period)

explain why the earlier poster so can use raw milk products and not conventional ones

mickman

sopretty wrote: »

Oh right. I'm a bit slow. Beer does that to me you see.

you should drink less

sopretty

mickman wrote: »

you should drink less

I would, but I've an allergy to alcohol, causing me to crave it. :eek:

mickman

sopretty wrote: »

I would, but I've an allergy to alcohol, causing me to crave it. :eek:

well done

Akrasia

mickman wrote: »

explain why the earlier poster so can use raw milk products and not conventional ones

I'm not convinced that there really is the described negative reaction to the pasteurised milk
A recent study tested this and found no difference in the effects on our bodies between pasteurised and raw milk

http://med.stanford.edu/ism/2014/march/milk.html

An interesting point from the linked study, is that there were 63 volunteers for the study which was only looking at the effects on lactose intolerant people. Of the 63 people who said they were lactose intolerant, when tested, only 43% of those people met the clinical standard for lactose intolerance.

mickman

Akrasia wrote: »

I'm not calling you a liar, but there is an awful lot of confusion out there about food intolerances and there are a lot of charlatans out there who make money from telling people that they have food intolerances.

There are risks associated with raw unpasteurised milk. I would suggest that if you want to avoid homogenised milk, that you should consider boiling your milk yourselves before consuming it.
Here's what the Centers for Disease Control has to say about it

More people get sick from eating fish products than raw milk, the risks have been greatly exagerated

sopretty

mickman wrote: »

More people get sick from eating fish products than raw milk, the risks have been greatly exagerated

Mickman - out of a matter of interest, could you give me an idea of what you eat? Are you allergic to anything?

mickman

sopretty wrote: »

Mickman - out of a matter of interest, could you give me an idea of what you eat? Are you allergic to anything?

I dont believe I am allergic to anything. I eat a mixed diet, dairy, fish, meat, wholegrains, veg ,fruit etc

sopretty

mickman wrote: »

I dont believe I am allergic to anything. I eat a mixed diet, dairy, fish, meat, wholegrains, veg ,fruit etc

Did you ever have a pint?

mickman

sopretty wrote: »

Did you ever have a pint?

yes of course. i have a few bottles of beer every now and again - i suppose it would average 3-4 units a month

Akrasia

mickman wrote: »

More people get sick from eating fish products than raw milk, the risks have been greatly exagerated

More people (in western countries) eat fish than drink raw milk

marizpan

Akrasia wrote: »

I'm not calling you a liar, but there is an awful lot of confusion out there about food intolerances and there are a lot of charlatans out there who make money from telling people that they have food intolerances.it

I am not confused about intolerances. My son was hospitalised due to a milk allergy which was causing him to pass blood etc. He was diagnoised as allergic to milk in the hospital. The other two in my family have strong reactions to milk, hence why I know it is a problem, I don't need to get them tested by a food intolerance test place.
We get our milk tested regularly and are well aware of the risks. For us, it is riskier to drink store bought milk and byproducts.

Akrasia

marizpan wrote: »

I am not confused about intolerances. My son was hospitalised due to a milk allergy which was causing him to pass blood etc. He was diagnoised as allergic to milk in the hospital.

Was this when your son was a baby?
Milk allergies are not uncommon in babies (2 to 3% of babies may be allergic to cows milk) but most of these children will outgrow the allergy as they get older.
This may be why your son is able to tolerate raw milk now (and would also be able to tolerate pasteurised milk)

But whatever works best for you.

All I'm saying is that I have searched and I haven't seen any medical evidence that demonstrates that raw milk is more hypoallergenic compared with pasteurised milk. All I have seen is a lot of 'testimonial evidence' which I don't trust because there is ample 'testimonial evidence' for everything from reiki to voodoo