Weakened cat immune system after having teeth removed

Nelly 21

Hoping to find some cat experts here
I have a 6 year old cat who is normally very healthy and playful. 5 weeks ago after noticing that he was a bit off and not eating we took him to the vets. Turns out he had a bad dose of gingivitis and stomatitis. HD was put on a course of antibiotics and then a week later he had all of his teeth out bar his canines. Since then I've been up the walls with him.

The poor thing has been back at the vets with another infection and is on more antibiotics. The infection is affecting his nose and this results in constant sneezing and a blocked nose. He is also on a daily painkiller.

His gums are still fairly red and I'm not sure what to do. The vet mentioned giving him a new diet but this worked out to be quite expensive. She also mentioned a diet high in protein feeding him fish and chicken. I have been doing this. I think she mentioned a hyper allergenic diet.

Has anyone any tips on how to help him, what to feed him, how I can build him up. Anything I can do for him at all. Any advise would be appreciated.

Nody

Well for starters if he is hyper allergenic you need to figure out against what and this will require a bit of experimenting. For starters go wet feed only (avoid the dust mites in kibble) and see if that helps. If not look at what wet food you use; for example Porta21 does a foodcalled pure chicken (shredded chicken in broth, nothing else) that you can try to see if it's chicken related, chicken and rice to test rice, pure tuna, tuna and sweet potatos etc. to see what's the issue basically. Once you've narrowed down the food issue you can look at alternative brand that don't have it to get to an acceptable price level and/or combine in raw (but you'd need to grind it obviously).

Nelly 21

Nody wrote: »

Well for starters if he is hyper allergenic you need to figure out against what and this will require a bit of experimenting. For starters go wet feed only (avoid the dust mites in kibble) and see if that helps. If not look at what wet food you use; for example Porta21 does a foodcalled pure chicken (shredded chicken in broth, nothing else) that you can try to see if it's chicken related, chicken and rice to test rice, pure tuna, tuna and sweet potatos etc. to see what's the issue basically. Once you've narrowed down the food issue you can look at alternative brand that don't have it to get to an acceptable price level and/or combine in raw (but you'd need to grind it obviously).

I've been feeding him wet food and tuna and boiled chicken. He drinks water. The food the vet told me about was for cats who had their teeth out. To be honest this is something I'm trying to sort myself as I'm out the door with vet bills. Unfortunately 2 weeks after our cat had his teeth out our other cat got hit by a car and broke his leg. He had an op for a new hip!! So you can imagine the vet bills!!

Our cats are house cats and we.re very attached as you can imagine!!!!

I didn't figure that he might have been allergic to something. I just thought the diet change was because he had no teeth!!!!

Nody

Well he may or may not be allergic but honestly most, if not all, wet foods are eatable with out teeth as they are jelly/water based. Porta21 Aloevera for example is shredded chicken, Cosma is chicken in jelly form which require no teeth to chew or break up and I can't recall a single soft brand that was not so soft you'd need teeth for it (simply mash it up a bit on the plate to help him).

I'd be careful with the tuna due to heavy metals (tuna contain relatively high amounts for a cat) as occasional treat but not more and if possible go for smaller fish instead.

Nelly 21

Nody wrote: »

Well he may or may not be allergic but honestly most, if not all, wet foods are eatable with out teeth as they are jelly/water based. Porta21 Aloevera for example is shredded chicken, Cosma is chicken in jelly form which require no teeth to chew or break up and I can't recall a single soft brand that was not so soft you'd need teeth for it (simply mash it up a bit on the plate to help him).

I'd be careful with the tuna due to heavy metals (tuna contain relatively high amounts for a cat) as occasional treat but not more and if possible go for smaller fish instead.

Thanks a million for advise. He is happy on wet food as he was on dry food before he had his teeth out. I'm going to look up stuff you mentioned.

Smaller fish..... I'm clueless I just automatically went for tuna!

Again thanks for taking the time and the advise!!!

Pumpkinseeds

Sorry to hear that your cat is having such a rough time. 1 of our cats has had a few teeth out. He's about 5 years old now and had 2 out last year and 2 out this year. We've put all of our cats on tins of Bozita about 6 weeks ago and they're thriving on it.

It's very soft, and much smoother than the Felix stuff we were feeding them, a lot like the texture of pate. A pack of 6 tins costs 6.99 and we use about 1.5 tins a day between 4 cats, they have dry food too.

It might be easier for your cat to eat Bozita or something of that texture. It's very easy to mush up and hide crushed pills in too. Ours love the tins of chicken and the salmon ones too. Hope your cat is better soon. Have a look at Zooplus.ie or Zooplus.uk for more info on cat food. They have a huge range with lots of info on each one and reviews from people who've bought the food.

maggiepip

Stomatitis in cats is an autoimmune issue - basically an over reaction to the plaque on teeth so Im surprised your vet didnt extract all the teeth OP. Usually all the teeth are taken out for a successful outcome.

Theres a good probiotic you can give to cats which is great for the immune system - you can get it online from iherb - its called Jarrow Pet Dophilus. Coconut oil is also an immune system booster which you could try, and in terms of food zooplus have many excellent quality wet foods - make sure they are grain free - to choose from. Feeding a high quality grain free diet would be a must for a cats health. Hope you get some improvement soon.

EmmaKd

Try L Lysine & Plaque Off

Rips

My cat is 5 now but he has always been affected by gingivitis.

He had his first dental at 2 years of age, no teeth removed and few weeks later he starting occasionally sneezing and later developed a bad allergic skin condition.

After many diagnostic tests and 2 months of illness, he was diagnosed with Atopic Dermatitis. And the condition has since resolved with implemented changes. It hasn't reoccurred, but he has had bouts were it looked like it might. Sneezing, scratching a bit and some hair thinning. Which we quickly got on top of.

The waters are a bit muddied because after the dental, I introduced some dental kibble to see if it would make any difference. But he also got a small dose of a potent steroid at the time of the dental, so that may have triggered it.
He was also of an age where these inherent problems develop, and then you can go full circle and ask yourself whether the gingivitis stomatitis is a symptom of the greater disease (as his gums get very inflamed when he is having a bout)

In either case, he's now 5 and he's had three subsequent dentals and 4 teeth removed (well, one fell out :rolleyes:)

We use plaque-off, which does definitely help, reduces but not eliminates plaque build up, and personally, I find the plaque has a much softer consistency and comes away easier, but this is an inherent problem that will not go away.
I decided against having his teeth taken out, because the roots of the good ones he has are rock solid and it is a traumatic procedure, as soon as the teeth start to fail, they come out easily, but this does mean we have to check his mouth all the time and he has annual dentals. He will lose them all very shortly at this rate though.

In the course of the diagnostics for his skin, we tried everything, exclusion, hypoallergenic diets, boiled chicken and white fish home cooked, various courses of antibiotics etc

He got worse and worse and worse. He was actually worst on the hypo food :rolleyes:

Finally we got the atopy diagnosis and started talking about atopica. However, he was in such a grim state (he'd lost 1kg in bodywight and he only weighs 3.5kg to start with) that I felt he needed time to recover without any meds, to build him up before starting Atopica, its quite a harsh drug and takes some getting used to.

I decided he needed spoiling for this period, he'd just come off the horrid hypo food so I actually just wanted something extremely tasty, but I wanted to stick to exclusion, so I tried Thrive Complete wet food. It has no carbs, no additives, its just canned chicken and/or fish in a mineral broth. The fish are high in omegas and it also has a high water content.

Within two weeks he started coming back to himself and we never needed the drugs. He's an indoor cat so we try and keep the environment 'allergen' free etc Fed from ceramic bowls, washed daily in boiled water. If you get lax on the hovering, you know about it!!

Rips

We also have dentisept at home, which we use when his gums are particularly inflamed. Stress can be a bit of a trigger though, so its really just a case of what little we can do. Plaque-off is easy and he's not adverse to a the occasional dentisept loaded cutip :pac:
Omega supplements as well.

Nelly 21

Thanks a mill for all of your helpful replies!! Obviously we love our cats and want the best. We have 2 toms. 5 months after the op the vet still wants him on painkiller for now which we will eventually have to wean him off of. I've been boiling chicken for him to eat and trying different cat food because he's been very fussy (spoiled, my fault of course). I indulge him. I was on the phone with the vet and she recommended Applaws cat food. Any type I think as it's hypoallergenic. Have any of you used this.

His form is good, it's just the food we can't seem to get right. With regard to plaque off. All he has are his molars and thank god his gums are looking fine.

angeline

Why is your cat on painkillers 5 months later? My cat had the equivelent to morphine before coming home and then I gave her Loxicolm with her food for a few days after but that was it.

Nody

Nelly 21 wrote: »

Thanks a mill for all of your helpful replies!! Obviously we love our cats and want the best. We have 2 toms. 5 months after the op the vet still wants him on painkiller for now which we will eventually have to wean him off of. I've been boiling chicken for him to eat and trying different cat food because he's been very fussy (spoiled, my fault of course). I indulge him. I was on the phone with the vet and she recommended Applaws cat food. Any type I think as it's hypoallergenic. Have any of you used this.

Applaws is a very high quality food but the wet version is not a complete food (i.e. they would need kibble as well). Along the same set up as Applaws you'd also have Porta21 and Cosma Nature.

angeline

Also for immune system I give my cat Moducare, Lactoferrin and Purina Fortiflora Feline.

Nelly 21

angeline wrote: »

Why is your cat on painkillers 5 months later? My cat had the equivelent to morphine before coming home and then I gave her Loxicolm with her food for a few days after but that was it.

He was on lexicon after the op and antibiotics. Then he had a bad flare up where he got a really bad infection that affected his sinus and he was drooling a lot. The vet then said that he needed more antibiotics and that he should still be on painkillers. She said it takes the gums a long time to heal. Maybe because the original infection was so bad, I don't know??? Also the cat had all his teeth removed other than his 4 fangs!!!

Nelly 21

Nody wrote: »

Applaws is a very high quality food but the wet version is not a complete food (i.e. they would need kibble as well). Along the same set up as Applaws you'd also have Porta21 and Cosma Nature.

Getting it hard to get him to eat kibble. Sometimes if he does eat it he brings it back up. Even treats. Thanks for the other recommendations. Seems a pricey option. I gave been feeding him boiled chicken which he loves.

So I need to try to get him to eat dry again. Someone suggested softening it with water?

Nody

Well cooked chicken is not enough for a cats needs; they need stuff you'd not boil (i.e. hearts, liver etc.). Putting down kibble in a bit of skin hot water in kibble is not a bad if it will help.

Nelly 21

Nody wrote: »

Well cooked chicken is not enough for a cats needs; they need stuff you'd not boil (i.e. hearts, liver etc.). Putting down kibble in a bit of skin hot water in kibble is not a bad if it will help.

Like raw ick!!! So they would eat that? Stupid question.... From what animal or any animal. I assume I can get it in the butchers. Sorry I've just never given my cats anything like that. I feel I need to be giving him foods to build him up a bit. Plus his appetite hasn't been the best in the last few days

DorInTheWall

I wonder if his tastebuds have been effected - chicken is quite bland, too. Have you tried mashing up some tinned pilchards or sardines in with his normal food to give it bit more flavour?

I feed my cat on Bozita and I'm pretty happy with it. I also like Lily's kitchen although it's twice the price. The tins of Salmon, and turkey flavour smell lovely.

Nelly 21

DorInTheWall wrote: »

I wonder if his tastebuds have been effected - chicken is quite bland, too. Have you tried mashing up some tinned pilchards or sardines in with his normal food to give it bit more flavour?

I feed my cat on Bozita and I'm pretty happy with it. I also like Lily's kitchen although it's twice the price. The tins of Salmon, and turkey flavour smell lovely.

Believe it or not I have a cat that doesn't like fish!!! I tried him with different types but he would just tip at it. I heard about that bozita, you recommend it. Seems I need food with a high meat content

angeline

My vet told me that things are changing in the cat world regarding their diet. Says good quality wet food is better for cats than dry food. Now to figure out the best quality wet food as vets tend to be biased towards Royal Canin...

Nelly 21

angeline wrote: »

My vet told me that things are changing in the cat world regarding their diet. Says good quality wet food is better for cats than dry food. Now to figure out the best quality wet food as vets tend to be biased towards Royal Canin...

Yeah I was always told dry was best and it was a fight to get the cat to eat it! Best for his teeth and all that! Then my poor cat had to have his teeth out!!! Also now I have a one year old cat who won't touch dry food either as he knows our other cat is getting different food!!!!!

With regards to the royal canin, that's the food our vet sells and she wanted me to put our cat on it. I just said I couldn't afford it and she said the next in line would be Applaws. I've been on that zoo plus website

Nody

Nelly 21 wrote: »

Like raw ick!!! So they would eat that? Stupid question.... From what animal or any animal. I assume I can get it in the butchers. Sorry I've just never given my cats anything like that. I feel I need to be giving him foods to build him up a bit. Plus his appetite hasn't been the best in the last few days

A cat would normally eat the whole mouse/bird/what ever inc. intestines, brain, heart etc. It's what gives them much needed taurine. What you can do to make your life easier is to get something like this to supplement your chicken to make sure they get everything they need. Make sure it's for cats and complete though

Nelly 21 wrote: »

With regards to the royal canin, that's the food our vet sells and she wanted me to put our cat on it. I just said I couldn't afford it and she said the next in line would be Applaws. I've been on that zoo plus website

I'd seriously look at changing vet because RC is way worse in quality than Applaws and it sounds to me that your vet is simply throwing out the most expensive brand they can think off as a way to get you to buy their RC instead rather then consider what's best for your cat. Porta21 for example should be cheaper then RC while having the same consistency (shredded chicken in broth making it easy to eat) and even with out teeth a cat can eat 95% of the canned stuff in jelly (there's nothing to actually chew as it's all minced together in a jelly anyway).

angeline wrote: »

My vet told me that things are changing in the cat world regarding their diet. Says good quality wet food is better for cats than dry food. Now to figure out the best quality wet food as vets tend to be biased towards Royal Canin...

Well excluding raw here's a list to get you started:

Applaws (not complete)
Classic Almo Nature (can, not complete)
Almo Nature Green (pouch, treat, not complete)
Almo Nature Orange (pouch, not complete)
Almo Nature Azure (pouch, not complete)
Schesir (best used as treat)
Porta 21 (not complete)
Cosma Nature (not complete)
Feringa (complete)
Catz finefood (complete)
Schmusy Nature (complete)
Granata Pet (complete)
Cosma (not complete)
Animonda Carny (complete)
Bozita (complete, likely to grow bored of over time, recommend cans over tetra pack)
Grau (complete; likely to grow bored over time)
Royal Canin pouches (likely to like jelly rather than eat the meat)

The thing with wet is that many of the better once are sadly not complete which means you need wet & kibble.

Nelly 21

Nody wrote: »

A cat would normally eat the whole mouse/bird/what ever inc. intestines, brain, heart etc. It's what gives them much needed taurine. What you can do to make your life easier is to get something like this to supplement your chicken to make sure they get everything they need. Make sure it's for cats and complete though

I'd seriously look at changing vet because RC is way worse in quality than Applaws and it sounds to me that your vet is simply throwing out the most expensive brand they can think off as a way to get you to buy their RC instead rather then consider what's best for your cat. Porta21 for example should be cheaper then RC while having the same consistency (shredded chicken in broth making it easy to eat) and even with out teeth a cat can eat 95% of the canned stuff in jelly (there's nothing to actually chew as it's all minced together in a jelly anyway).

Well excluding raw here's a list to get you started:

Applaws (not complete)
Classic Almo Nature (can, not complete)
Almo Nature Green (pouch, treat, not complete)
Almo Nature Orange (pouch, not complete)
Almo Nature Azure (pouch, not complete)
Schesir (best used as treat)
Porta 21 (not complete)
Cosma Nature (not complete)
Feringa (complete)
Catz finefood (complete)
Schmusy Nature (complete)
Granata Pet (complete)
Cosma (not complete)
Animonda Carny (complete)
Bozita (complete, likely to grow bored of over time, recommend cans over tetra pack)
Grau (complete; likely to grow bored over time)
Royal Canin pouches (likely to like jelly rather than eat the meat)

The thing with wet is that many of the better once are sadly not complete which means you need wet & kibble.

My goodness thanks for the reply!! Thanks for taking the time typing all that information!!! I'm going on zooplus to root around and thanks f or the help!!!!

Nelly 21

So I've been shopping around for food. Nothing suits in the pet shops so I think I'll have to order online. I went in to another vets shop to inquire about food. They only stock royal canin as well. She reckoned that we didn't need to buy medicated food and said allergies normally affect the cats skin/coat and stomach. Our cat has no problem with his skin or stomach as far as I am aware. He's fussy but will eat and has a healthy problem. One thing we discovered us that we are over feeding him, indulging him too much really.

At the end we bought some wet and dry food and he us loving it. The vet gave us senior cat food and said to give him a go on it. We bought omega 3 treats for him and he seems happy enough.so we'll see how it goes.

Sorry for the rambling!!! Then the vet in the shop asked had we ever tested him for FIV. I said no. She said that can affect the cats gums, sneezing... Our cat is healthy, our only problems with have been the dental problems but he also sneezes a lot and recently he had a bad sinus infection. Now I'm worried that he has FIV. I've read up on it and I know it's not a death sentence but I'm still upset and worried. I'm thinking of bringing him to be tested. Have any of you had experience of this?

Thanks also for all the help and advice that you all Rajendra the time out to give me!!!!