Get caught stealing chips - Win €8000 !!!

dirtyden

Red Nissan wrote: »

My family has had good experiences from Anne Dunne in the past, she gave my wife food, money and cloths for our twins, my wife's father worked in the Patrick Street Branch. She was also very good to him and attended his funeral.

How does that change what happened here? What is the relevance?

Red Nissan

dirtyden wrote: »

How does that change what happened here? What is the relevance?

I was replying to a post that said some companies treat their staff very poorly.

In this exact thread I can only speak for my experience as a recipient of generosity being two parts removed from being staff.

The assumption to draw is in fact that Dunne's Stores were actually VERY good to their staff.

But I don't know I never worked directly under their management, IE they never paid me directly.

Some companies probably do treat their staff poorly, I suggest that Dunne's is not actually one of them and neither I nor my wife worked directly for them.

pragmatic1

Garrigai wrote: »

Employment law, where the employer is guilty until proven innocent

Employment law is there for very good reason. Without it many peoples working lives would be miserable.

sdanseo

crusher000 wrote: »

The law is very rigid about this you cannot put surveillance cameras on any staff members without them being notified. All employers know this and the law can't be flaunted regardless of the action taken by hte employee.

Were they addressed verbally about their actions of theft? Were they formally warned about their actions ?

Theft is gross misconduct, no warning is required and nor should it be.

HUGE caveat there though, nabbing a couple of chips out of the hot counter is hardly a big deal and not something I'd ever want to see someone fired for, unless they were taking the piss and helping themselves to container loads of the stuff.

Red Nissan

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Employment law is there for very good reason. Without it many peoples' working lives would be miserable.

Include all people there, see I fixed it for ya. Arguably the rules make most people's working life, individually miserable.

In this case, success, she will be working in Apple next month for sure.

dirtyden

Red Nissan wrote: »

I was replying to a post that said some companies treat their staff very poorly.

In this exact thread I can only speak for my experience as a recipient of generosity being two parts removed from being staff.

The assumption to draw is in fact that Dunne's Stores were actually VERY good to their staff.

But I don't know I never worked directly under their management, IE they never paid me directly.

Some companies probably do treat their staff poorly, I suggest that Dunne's is not actually one of them and neither I nor my wife worked directly for them.

They spy on their staff and fire them for stealing goujons that will be thrown away. You are not staff as u have said. I am still really failing to see your point. They were nice to you even though you are not staff and hence this story in the national press has been made up?

anoda_username

She got awarded 9,300



http://www.labourcourt.ie/en/Cases/2014/April/UD202_2012_MN152_2012.html

kupus

suicide_circus wrote: »

Employees have FAR to much protection in ireland imo.

As long as you show up on time everyday, it is next to impossible to fire someone after probation unless the assault someone. People who are completely **** at their job, couldnt give a bollix, crap customer service, bad attitude, lazy - cant get rid of the *****!

Here SC you should read this, just sub out hungry for ireland but the message still remains the same...
its really going to get your knickers in a twist.

Every prospective entrepreneur in ireland should read this. Every employee in ireland should read this.
and lastly every schoolkid should be taught this, (I know that its not a reality as the teachers and the curriculum are too busy fostering followers and loyal lapdogs instead of creating and enhancing prospective budding entrepreneurs).

http://andorjakab.blog.hu/2014/03/02/this_is_why_i_don_t_give_you_a_job

This is why i don't give you a job


I could hire 12 people with €760 net salary, but I don't.

I'll tell you why. You could work for my service provider company in a nice office. It's not telemarketing, it's not a scam. You would do serious work that requires high skills, 8 hours a day, weekdays only. I would employ you legally, I would pay your taxes and social security. I could give such a job to a dozen people, but I will not, and here I'll explain why.



I wouldn't hire a woman.

The reason is very simple: women give birth to children. I don't have the right to ask if she wanted to. If I had the right, and she answered, she could deliberately deceive me or she could change her mind.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have any problem with women giving birth to children. That's how I was born and that's how my child was born. I wouldn't hire a woman because when she gets pregnant, she goes for 3 years maternity leave, during which I can't fire her. If she wants two children, the vacation is 6 years long.

Of course, work has to be done, so I would have to hire somebody who works instead of her while she is whiling away her long holiday years. But not only couldn't I fire her while she's away, I couldn't fire her when she comes back either. So I would have to fire the one who's been working instead of her the whole time. When a woman comes back from maternity leave, I would be legally forced to increase her salary to the present level in her position. Also, I would be required to give out her normal vacation days, that she accumulated during her maternity leave. When she finally comes back to work, she would start with 2-4 months of fully paid vacation.

I wouldn't hire people over 50 either.

Not that I have any problem with the most experienced professionals. I wouldn't hire them, because they are soon in the protected age. And then I would be trapped with them, similar to the trap with employing women. You can't fire people in the protected age, so I would have to pay the salary and its total cost even if he or she doesn't work well, or at least up to acceptable standards. I couldn't fire the protected employee, but someone would have to do the job right; so I would have to hire another person. It's all right with me if they're protected, but then I won't hire them.

I would only hire 25-50 years old men.

They're also risky to hire. Since I don't have the right to fire them, if for any reason (I don't have enough income, or I don't like how they work) I want to. There's a high risk that they will go to court, and there's a high chance they will win. But this risk I would be prepared to handle.

You would cost me €1572.

fig 1

This is actual 2011 data from the www.nettober.com salary calculator. As you can see, your €760 salary would cost my company €1572. The only way this 2x state multiplier could be lower, is if I pay a lower salary. But I wouldn't hire you for less money, because I think you couldn't make a decent living for less then €760. You would become depressed, destroy your own life, my company and even me. So, I am not willing to hire anybody for less than this sum.

It's only Hungary that is so ****ed up:

This chart is from a Deloitte study. As you can see, the state takes away less than half of your salary everywhere else. It's annoying that I pay you more than €1500, but you only receive a little less than half of it. Especially since you will not get any better medical care than anybody registered with a minimum wage income.

I would also have to take into consideration that a 35 years old person is entitled 25 days of vacation per year. This means 1 extra month where someone else has to do step in. If I needed 12 peoples' labor, I would have to employ 13 to account for the one who's on vacation at any given time.

But I would still give you a job despite everything stated previously.

I am a braveheart entrepreneur. Entrepreneurs take risks, so I would sell my apartment and move to a rented flat. I would hope that the €90,000 from the sale will be enough. I would launch my business bravely, and if I didn't succeed (quite likely with startups) I wouldn't be a crybaby.

My company would provide an excellent service, and that's impossible to provide without decent working conditions. I would employ 13 people. I would constantly need 12 peoples' work, plus the one who works instead of the one on vacation. 14 people, including me, would work in the 158 sqm nicely furbished, and comfortable office. This would cost 10 €/sqm/month for rent, and 3,5 €/sqm/month for utility fees, with a total cost of 2133 €/month.

These would be my monthly expenses:

Office: € 2,133
Wages: 13 x €1572 = € 20,436
Other expenses (accounting, marketing, etc.): € 3,058
Total: € 25,627

Pretty scary for monthly bills isn't it? This is how much I would have to pay out every month, regardless of my income. In the good months, and the bad months too. In the summer low season, and before Christmas when we would do far less work.

The company couldn't possibly sell more than 1000 hours / month of billable service in the average month. So to break even, making enough income to cover my costs, I would need to set my pricing at €25,627 / 1000 = €25 / hour. But breaking even isn't enough, I would also need some profit.

I am not greedy, the market is tough too, I would markup my prices with 20% profit. This would increase my hourly rate to €30, that is pronounced as thirty Euros plus VAT, €37,5. I would round this sum (down), so our customers would pay €37 / hour for our service.

I am not greedy, and the market is tough too. I would markup my prices with 20% profit. This would increase my hourly rate to €30, that is pronounced as thirty Euros plus VAT, €37,5. I would round this sum (down), so our customers would pay €37 / hour for our service.

Out of this €37, 7 would go directly to the state, 30 would be company income. I am an optimistic person. Our marketing would kick ass, my plans would work perfectly, we would succeed at selling an average of 1000 hours of service monthly. Business would fly, I would be lucky with all my employees, everybody would work like a charm.

This would generate 1000 x €30 = €30,000 company income.

€4,373 would be profit. I could pay €2,446 gross salary to myself, that would cost my company €3,144. Out of that, €1,521 would be my net salary, almost the double of what my employees make, and the company would make €1,229 profit before taxation. Out of the company profit, I would pay €122 corporate tax, and the local business tax, 2% of company income, which is €600. At the end, the company would have €507 per month left in its bank account to keep.

So I would make €1,521 per month, but don't forget, that I sold my €90,000 apartment, and I invested it in the company. So I would have to rent a flat for at least €300, otherwise I would become homeless. I would live a modest life, wouldn't spend a lot, and my wife would also make money. I wouldn't even have the time to spend much, because unlike my employees, I would work 12 hours every day, even on the weekends.

This way I could save €900 per month, so my €90,000 investment would return in 100 months. It would take 9 years to recover the money that I invested in the company, so I could buy myself an apartment again. From then on I wouldn't have to live on a tight budget, I wouldn't have to pay rents, and wouldn't have to save either. I would live like a European.

Under these circumstances - I hope it's understandable - I don't feel a strong urge to sell my apartment and invest the money into a new company.

But for 4 reasons I will definitely not do it.


The competition sells the same service, illegally, under really crappy circumstances, charging only €9 per hour. They simply pocket the money, without even issuing an invoice; it doesn't even include the VAT.
They don't have to take any responsibility, there are no warranties, they officially don't do anything, there's not even an official, legal trace of their existence. They don't have to rent an office, hire an accountant. By doing this 5 hours a day, they can easily make €1,000.
They would point their middle fingers to my €760 job offer, where they wouldn't be allowed to do crappy work, but show up on time every day and meet very high professional standards in their work. They wouldn't be allowed to defraud the customers, and if they did, they would be fired.

The competition would do smear campaigns against my company. I would have to face anti-capitalist propaganda, I would be seen as a greedy asshole who charges €37 for what others charge €9, I would be an enemy of the nice Hungarian people, while others work honestly for a fraction of my price...

Many of my employees would only come to work for me to learn my business secrets and to steal my clients. They would lure them away by lying that they will get the same value and quality of service, but at a fraction of the price.

After they stole enough clients, they would deliberately cause a great deal of harm to my company to get themselves fired. Then they would then go to court, stating that I fired them illegally, and they would win the case. In the meantime, they would happily work for the stolen clientele, that has cost me a fortune to build up.
And, of course, they would be offended. They would trumpet on all kind of forums, telling everyone they have worked for my company, they know what they're talking about. Not only is my service very expensive, but the quality is a piece of crap too.


Complaining about all this wouldn't help, no one would give a flying ****.
So this is basically why I don't give anyone a job. And I think a lot of other entrepreneurs who have experienced starting a business, will also not give jobs because of these issues. And this is why more and more people are jobless, who buy fewer and fewer things, which means they pay less VAT. And this is why there are fewer and fewer decent companies, who hire less employees, who pay less taxes, so there's less state money for social aids, and this is why social aid is about to come in the form of concentration camps.

I will only give you a job if:

I can fire you, when and if I want to.
If VAT goes down to at most 20%, but better yet 15%.
If the state takes away "only" 30% of your money.
If higher income is not exponentially punished.
If the state punishes corruption instead of decent companies.
Until these things change, I won't give a job. Until the state ferrets out corruption in every possible aspect, I won't start a business, and I won't create jobs.



---

This is a translation of the original Hungarian post, "Tőlem ezért nem kapsz munkát" posted on the 27th of July, 2011. Although it rocked the Hungarian blogosphere - generated more than 90,000 Facebook likes - nothing has changed for the better. On the contrary. It's a whole lot worse now. To all of you international readers, here €760 net sounds like a dream salary for most people. Even medical doctors make less than half of this, at the beginning of their career. Prices on the other hand are the same as everywhere else.

>HUGE< thanks go to Spencer Rathbun for helping me out with the English txt.

Red Nissan

dirtyden wrote: »

They spy on their staff and fire them for stealing goujons that will be thrown away. You are not staff as u have said. I am still really failing to see your point. They were nice to you even though you are not staff and hence this story in the national press has been made up?

Have I replied to you?

How exactly can you say

has been made up?

FROM MY STATEMENTS. Angry. Not a question.

Facts are facts.

Red Nissan

kupus wrote: »

Here SC you should read this,

Never read it, toooooo long. maybe make a link. ? And it will be quoted over and over again.

Snake

suicide_circus wrote: »

Employees have FAR to much protection in ireland imo.

As long as you show up on time everyday, it is next to impossible to fire someone after probation unless the assault someone. People who are completely **** at their job, couldnt give a bollix, crap customer service, bad attitude, lazy - cant get rid of the *****!

If someone is behaving antisocial like they can be fired. Don't talk bollox.

kupus

Red Nissan wrote: »

Never read it, toooooo long. maybe make a link. ? And it will be quoted over and over again.

added link, anyway it should be read over and over again so that employees understand what employers go through.

retrogamefan wrote: »

If someone is behaving antisocial like they can be fired. Don't talk bollox.

^ Im going to take a wild punt on this and im just thinking out loud on this one but youve never employed anyone in your life. Am i correct?

Snake

kupus wrote: »

^ Im going to take a wild punt on this and im just thinking out loud on this one but youve never employed anyone in your life. Am i correct?

No, I haven't. But I've been in enough jobs where pricks have been fired.

JillyQ

kupus wrote: »

added link, anyway it should be read over and over again so that employees understand what employers go through.


^ Im going to take a wild punt on this and im just thinking out loud on this one but youve never employed anyone in your life. Am i correct?

Of course you are correct. It is obvious by their statement.

suicide_circus

retrogamefan wrote: »

No, I haven't. But I've been in enough jobs where pricks have been fired.

Were the pricks in the job 6 months or less/not on a permanent contract?

Paulownia

Dunnes stores screw everyone, many years ago my father supplied Dunnes with vegetables and they were consistently lousy payers. In recent years they have been in the courts on several occasions for breaches of contract with regard to property deals when they decided not to proceed with deals. They are not successful for nothing and not the sort of employers whom one would expect to turn a blind eye to petty theft either, I would have nicked my chips elsewhere if it were me!!
It is well known that those tribunals are always pro employee anyway and the employer rarely does not have to pay something no matter what the circumstances are.

monkeysnapper

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If you worked in currys would stealing earphones be ok?

No, the same way taking food from dunnes isn't ok . I never said it was.

I did it then, I wouldn't do it now . I do think people do things by example . My managers did it, store managers did it so why wouldn't i .

Where I work now there's zero tolerance so I don't do it