Rent Allowance

xsofacouchx

I'm new to this so I'm just gonna assume I am posting in the right Forum.

I'm currently living in emergency accommodation and am looking for a place to rent that accepts rent allowance.
It is extremely difficult to find a place in Dublin that will take it that is within the limits of a single persons rent caps.

I have no drug or alcohol issues and yet I feel I am being discriminated against just for need assistance with paying rent.

I done a bit of research, at the current moment there are only 68 properties on the whole island that will accept rent allowance and is under the rent allowance cap for a single person. None of these are in Dublin or the surrounding areas so therefore is useless to me.

Daft is very competitive also, when a home that accepts rent allowance becomes available, thousands of people view the advert and then the landlord accepts someone who has cash as it is easier.

Does anyone know if there is any sites that have lettings that deal specifically with rent allowance?

fussyonion

xsofacouchx wrote: »

I'm new to this so I'm just gonna assume I am posting in the right Forum.

I'm currently living in emergency accommodation and am looking for a place to rent that accepts rent allowance.
It is extremely difficult to find a place in Dublin that will take it that is within the limits of a single persons rent caps.

I have no drug or alcohol issues and yet I feel I am being discriminated against just for need assistance with paying rent.

I done a bit of research, at the current moment there are only 68 properties on the whole island that will accept rent allowance and is under the rent allowance cap for a single person. None of these are in Dublin or the surrounding areas so therefore is useless to me.

Daft is very competitive also, when a home that accepts rent allowance becomes available, thousands of people view the advert and then the landlord accepts someone who has cash as it is easier.

Does anyone know if there is any sites that have lettings that deal specifically with rent allowance?

There are no such websites, as far as I'm aware.
It's been stated here before that it IS incredibly hard for someone on Rent Allowance to find a Landlord willing to accept it, but Landlords have their reasons, which are understandable.

You mentioned Dublin-you may have to move outside Dublin to find a place for yourself; Dublin rents are rocketing and it's hard to find somewhere that will accept Rent Allowance.
I'm not surprised it's competitive; rent allowance properties are very few and far between.

I don't understand how you feel you're being discriminated against-this is not the Landlord's fault.

Just keep checking Daft/Gumtree-place ads yourself on the sites, put up ads on your local supermarket notice board, check the classified section in the paper, just keep trying, it's all you can do really.

OldNotWIse

fussyonion wrote: »

There are no such websites, as far as I'm aware.
It's been stated here before that it IS incredibly hard for someone on Rent Allowance to find a Landlord willing to accept it, but Landlords have their reasons, which are understandable.

You mentioned Dublin-you may have to move outside Dublin to find a place for yourself; Dublin rents are rocketing and it's hard to find somewhere that will accept Rent Allowance.
I'm not surprised it's competitive; rent allowance properties are very few and far between.

I don't understand how you feel you're being discriminated against-this is not the Landlord's fault.

Just keep checking Daft/Gumtree-place ads yourself on the sites, put up ads on your local supermarket notice board, check the classified section in the paper, just keep trying, it's all you can do really.

Maybe because of the arbitrariness of a filtering mechanism that specifically rules out people because they need social assistance?

fussyonion

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Maybe because of the arbitrariness of a filtering mechanism that specifically rules out people because they need social assistance?

Then my feelings would be directed at the system, not the Landlord.
Landlords are in a business and can take whoever they want.
Peoples' anger at Rent Allowance is always being directed at the wrong person.

OldNotWIse

fussyonion wrote: »

Then my feelings would be directed at the system, not the Landlord.
Landlords are in a business and can take whoever they want.
Peoples' anger at Rent Allowance is always being directed at the wrong person.

I'm not angry at anything, I've never been on RA and with the grace of God I never will be. All I said was, if OP comes across LL after LL refusing tenants straight out simply because they are on RA - its not particularly difficult to see how he/she might feel discriminated against.

I'm aware that LL's can take whoever they want, and have not disputed this fact.

fussyonion

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I'm not angry at anything, I've never been on RA and with the grace of God I never will be. All I said was, if OP comes across LL after LL refusing tenants straight out simply because they are on RA - its not particularly difficult to see how he/she might feel discriminated against.

I'm aware that LL's can take whoever they want, and have not disputed this fact.

Eh, I never actually said you were angry and did not say you disputed anything-I'm just trying to explain my view on it.

OldNotWIse

fussyonion wrote: »

Then my feelings would be directed at the system, not the Landlord.
Landlords are in a business and can take whoever they want.
Peoples' anger at Rent Allowance is always being directed at the wrong person.

fussyonion wrote: »

Eh, I never actually said you were angry and did not say you disputed anything-I'm just trying to explain my view on it.

So why was this in response to my post?

OP said he/she felt discriminated against.

You said you couldn't see why they felt that way.

I explained how they might feel that way.

Simple really.

OldNotWIse

OP have you registered your interest with estate agents so that if something fitting your criteria comes up you will be notified?

murphaph

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Maybe because of the arbitrariness of a filtering mechanism that specifically rules out people because they need social assistance?

If cuts to rent supplement weren't arbitrary then perhaps landlord's attitudes to it wouldn't be either!

There are other issues with RS (especially that it's paid in arrears) but the main one is that it can be cut at any time, mid lease and the state expects the landlord to suck it up. A state that encourages the breaking of contracts is a pathetic one.

No Pants

xsofacouchx wrote: »

I feel I am being discriminated against just for need assistance with paying rent.

The prohibited grounds from discrimination are:

• Gender
• Civil status
• Family status
• Sexual orientation
• Religion
• Age (does not apply to a person under 16)
• Disability
• Race
• Membership of the Traveller community.

Choose the one that fits best and make your case.

OldNotWIse

murphaph wrote: »

If cuts to rent supplement weren't arbitrary then perhaps landlord's attitudes to it wouldn't be either!

There are other issues with RS (especially that it's paid in arrears) but the main one is that it can be cut at any time, mid lease and the state expects the landlord to suck it up. A state that encourages the breaking of contracts is a pathetic one.

Perhaps, but the cynic in me suggests its just good ol' fashioned prejudice and perhaps (perhaps) a failure to declare rental income. Or maybe I am dreaming and the likes of that...never happens

No Pants

murphaph wrote: »

A state that encourages the breaking of contracts with the weak is a pathetic one.

I took the liberty of adding a few words. The state is happy to alter the terms for anyone receiving welfare assistance or a pension that they have already paid for. They frequently run into complex legal, contractual and even constitutional issues when trying the same with anyone higher up the food chain who has a barrister on speed dial and an open slot ready in the Supreme Court.

murphaph

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Perhaps, but the cynic in me suggests its just good ol' fashioned prejudice and perhaps (perhaps) a failure to declare rental income. Or maybe I am dreaming and the likes of that...never happens

Of course it happens but Revenue have stepped up their efforts to find non-declaring landlords and to be honest it's much easier to commit tax evasion in many of the "professions" than it is for a landlord.

Your GP "forgets" to issue you a receipt and your consultation never happened and that €50 you just gave him is straight into his back pocket. A landlord has to hide his property ownership from Revenue because once that's established it's a simple matter of checking with the tenants to see what rent has been taken over a tax year. It's much much harder to evade tax as a landlord than as a GP...but there's no general belief that GPs are all on the fiddle.

Most LLs want nothing whatsoever to do with RS because it's a balls of a system and yes, I'm afraid to say, a larger proportion of those on RS will be troublemakers than those not on RS. This is a balls for the decent people in receipt of RS. Trouble-making tenants should be blacklisted from receiving RS, but they aren't. You can pocket the rent cheque and it can come out that you've been pocketing it and you'll still get RS in the next place. Farcical system that leads to decent people in need of a bit of help getting shafted.

Blaming LLs for this hardship however is beyond ridiculous.

OldNotWIse

murphaph wrote: »

Of course it happens but Revenue have stepped up their efforts to find non-declaring landlords and to be honest it's much easier to commit tax evasion in many of the "professions" than it is for a landlord.

Your GP "forgets" to issue you a receipt and your consultation never happened and that €50 you just gave him is straight into his back pocket. A landlord has to hide his property ownership from Revenue because once that's established it's a simple matter of checking with the tenants to see what rent has been taken over a tax year. It's much much harder to evade tax as a landlord than as a GP...but there's no general belief that GPs are all on the fiddle.

Most LLs want nothing whatsoever to do with RS because it's a balls of a system and yes, I'm afraid to say, a larger proportion of those on RS will be troublemakers than those not on RS. This is a balls for the decent people in receipt of RS. Trouble-making tenants should be blacklisted from receiving RS, but they aren't. You can pocket the rent cheque and it can come out that you've been pocketing it and you'll still get RS in the next place. Farcical system that leads to decent people in need of a bit of help getting shafted.

Blaming LLs for this hardship however is beyond ridiculous.

How do you know this?

marathonic

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Perhaps, but the cynic in me suggests its just good ol' fashioned prejudice and perhaps (perhaps) a failure to declare rental income. Or maybe I am dreaming and the likes of that...never happens

I don't accept rent supplement in Donegal because the maximum a landlord is allowed to charge a tenant in receipt of rent supplement, for a couple with two children, is €400 per month.

The market rate locally for a 3-bedroom house is €500 per month. Why would I accept 25% below market rent when I can easily rent to those not in receipt of rent supplement?

Tax evasion doesn't come into the equation.

OldNotWIse

marathonic wrote: »

I don't accept rent supplement in Donegal because the maximum a landlord is allowed to charge a tenant in receipt of rent supplement, for a couple with two children, is €400 per month.

The market rate locally for a 3-bedroom house is €500 per month. Why would I accept 25% below market rent when I can easily rent to those not in receipt of rent supplement?

Tax evasion doesn't come into the equation.

I know some people who topup their RA with their own money (in fact, I think the whole idea is that they contribute something from their SW)

Happy to hear you're not evading tax

No Pants

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I know some people who topup their RA with their own money (in fact, I think the whole idea is that they contribute something from their SW)

I thought they weren't supposed to do that.

marathonic

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I know some people who topup their RA with their own money (in fact, I think the whole idea is that they contribute something from their SW)

Happy to hear you're not evading tax

So you're happy to hear I'm not evading tax but you are suggesting that I committ fraud by accepting RA top-ups?

Accepting a top-up is against the rules and would require me to complete the social welfare forms, and sign-them, with an understated rent amount.

OldNotWIse

No Pants wrote: »

I thought they weren't supposed to do that.

Oh. I thought they were I may have to shuffle off with my tail between my legs so

OldNotWIse

marathonic wrote: »

So you're happy to hear I'm not evading tax but you are suggesting that I committ fraud by accepting RA top-ups?

Accepting a top-up is against the rules and would require me to complete the social welfare forms, and sign-them, with an understated rent amount.

As I said, I thought this was the done thing (having seem it done quite a bit). Holy Mother of God I made a mistake! Nooooooo......

stargazer 68

OldNotWIse wrote: »

As I said, I thought this was the done thing (having seem it done quite a bit). Holy Mother of God I made a mistake! Nooooooo......

It can be topped up in certain circumstances. I work part time so get less than half of the RA that I would get if I didnt work at all - I have to make up the other portion myself.

Eric Cartman

xsofacouchx wrote: »

I'm new to this so I'm just gonna assume I am posting in the right Forum.

I'm currently living in emergency accommodation and am looking for a place to rent that accepts rent allowance.
It is extremely difficult to find a place in Dublin that will take it that is within the limits of a single persons rent caps.

I have no drug or alcohol issues and yet I feel I am being discriminated against just for need assistance with paying rent.

I done a bit of research, at the current moment there are only 68 properties on the whole island that will accept rent allowance and is under the rent allowance cap for a single person. None of these are in Dublin or the surrounding areas so therefore is useless to me.

Daft is very competitive also, when a home that accepts rent allowance becomes available, thousands of people view the advert and then the landlord accepts someone who has cash as it is easier.

Does anyone know if there is any sites that have lettings that deal specifically with rent allowance?

if you need rent allowance you are probably not working , thus you do not actually have anything tying you to dublin , try looking for RA properties in kilcock or athy in kildare , places like rathoat in meath and other places that you could get the train / bus from to dublin on the odd occasion that you need to get there.

the increasing demand for dublin properties means landlords would be mad to take RA in dublin.

marathonic

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the increasing demand for dublin properties means landlords would be mad to take RA in dublin.

Yup!!! If you get a landlord in Dublin that accepts you whilst on rent supplement, run a mile - he's a madman and god only knows what he's capable of :D

zef

OP- Focus Point in Eustace Street D.2 have details of RA-friendly landlords.
I would imagine that demand is pretty high though.
They will let you make phone calls to social welfare, landlords etc free in focus point. Get in touch with the Peter McVerry trust, they are an excellent org.
Would you consider house share- you might have better luck with that than getting an individual unit for yourself. I hope you find somewhere.

marathonic

Dovies wrote: »

It can be topped up in certain circumstances. I work part time so get less than half of the RA that I would get if I didnt work at all - I have to make up the other portion myself.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe that the top-up is to cover the reduction in RA that you get. I don't believe the landlord is allowed to increase rent beyond the levels set by the government by each county, even if the tenant is topping up the reduction in their RA.

Ray Palmer

I don't take RA for a number of reason very few really to do with the person itself but the system and how people can abuse the system. The main reason is it isn't enough and can be cut. From a purely financial point of view RA is not worth the hassle.
From a reality point of view tenants on RA have caused more trouble than any other tenants I have ever had. It was not just one instance. Never take on another RA tenant again. The biggest issue is lack of personal responsibility on paying the rent when RA is stopped or cut for what ever reason.

zoomaway

xsofacouchx wrote: »

I'm new to this so I'm just gonna assume I am posting in the right Forum.

I'm currently living in emergency accommodation and am looking for a place to rent that accepts rent allowance.
It is extremely difficult to find a place in Dublin that will take it that is within the limits of a single persons rent caps.

I have no drug or alcohol issues and yet I feel I am being discriminated against just for need assistance with paying rent.

I done a bit of research, at the current moment there are only 68 properties on the whole island that will accept rent allowance and is under the rent allowance cap for a single person. None of these are in Dublin or the surrounding areas so therefore is useless to me.

Daft is very competitive also, when a home that accepts rent allowance becomes available, thousands of people view the advert and then the landlord accepts someone who has cash as it is easier.

Does anyone know if there is any sites that have lettings that deal specifically with rent allowance?

Have you been in touch with any housing agencies like Respond for example. Maybe they could help / advise you.

Gatling

Op your not been discriminated against first and foremost ,
There's hundreds in the same position from single men /women ,families and so on ,
As you stated there's 26 properties that will take RA what's stopping you going for one of them properties ,

fussyonion

OldNotWIse wrote: »

So why was this in response to my post?

OP said he/she felt discriminated against.

You said you couldn't see why they felt that way.

I explained how they might feel that way.

Simple really.

I wasn't saying YOU were angry. I wasn't even suggesting the OP was angry, I was merely pointing out that in general, RA tenants direct their frustration and anger at Landlords.

Graces7

op; i wish you all the luck in the world.

being discriminated against is a harsh reality for so many on social welfare. myself included, and you can see the attitudes here that we are up against.

discrimination re ra is not listed in law of course but it is a very harsh reality. aimed at those already struggling.... used to be called kicking a man when he is down.
sad that so many lls do not seemingly have the iq to screen ra applicants as they do others.that is where the discrimination lies. no ra, period. no intelligence or even humanity there. label us all with the sins of the few.

and yes that is the lls fault. not the govts. not anyone elses.

saddens for ireland.

sadder to see this too when rent on a particular property is within our reach.

as i say, good luck. blessed here with a good landlord and ra is fine.

The_Morrigan

Folks just a reminder that it is against the charter to have a them vs us discussion. Please cut out the sweeping generalisations about landlords and RA tenants.

firestarter51

rent allowance was reduced to (i think) 86 for every 100 of the rent total, i was on it a few years back, it was a god send, and when i was looking for a property i went and met with the landlord had a chat and showed him references and he was happy enough to accept me.
i think the whole tennent gets the money and pays the landlord is a balls of a system, the tenants after me didnt pay rent for three months and wrecked the place, landlord said to me he will never rent again.

OldNotWIse

fussyonion wrote: »

I wasn't saying YOU were angry. I wasn't even suggesting the OP was angry, I was merely pointing out that in general, RA tenants direct their frustration and anger at Landlords.

Who refuse them simply because they are on RA, yes. IMO that frustration and anger is rightly directed. If, however they are directing their anger and frustration over something beyond the control of the LL, then it is misdirected.

OldNotWIse

Graces7 wrote: »

op; i wish you all the luck in the world.

being discriminated against is a harsh reality for so many on social welfare. myself included, and you can see the attitudes here that we are up against.

discrimination re ra is not listed in law of course but it is a very harsh reality. aimed at those already struggling.... used to be called kicking a man when he is down.
sad that so many lls do not seemingly have the iq to screen ra applicants as they do others.that is where the discrimination lies. no ra, period. no intelligence or even humanity there. label us all with the sins of the few.

and yes that is the lls fault. not the govts. not anyone elses.

saddens for ireland.

sadder to see this too when rent on a particular property is within our reach.

as i say, good luck. blessed here with a good landlord and ra is fine.

Agree with you 100%
At the end of the day, the biggest reason why LL's refuse those on RA is because they are prejudiced against them. Of course, this is not a popular thing to say and you will be met with all manner of denials and other excuses, but the dogs on the street know it to be true.

marathonic

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Who refuse them simply because they are on RA, yes. IMO that frustration and anger is rightly directed. If, however they are directing their anger and frustration over something beyond the control of the LL, then it is misdirected.

For me, the following two statements are one, and the same:

• I refuse to accept a rent that is 25% below the market rate
• I refuse to accept Rent Supplement recipients

There is a general misconception that the reason a landlord doesn't accept rent supplement recipients is that they think they are more unreliable as a tenant. Whilst this may be true in certain cases, and in particular for landlords that have been burned in the past by such tenants, this is most certainly not true in the majority of cases.

The primary reason for not accepting rent supplement tenants, as mentioned before, is the maximum rents imposed by the government - which, as has been mentioned before, can be reduced at any time, even mid-contract.

At the end of the day, due to recent government policy, landlords know that, be accepting a rent supplement recipient, they are losing control of the ability to set their own rent based on their local markets. Why do this unless absolutely necessary? Again, in most cases, it's nothing to do with the tenant and everything to do with government policy.

OldNotWIse

marathonic wrote: »

For me, the following two statements are one, and the same:

• I refuse to accept a rent that is 25% below the market rate
• I refuse to accept Rent Supplement recipients

There is a general misconception that the reason a landlord doesn't accept rent supplement recipients is that they think they are more unreliable as a tenant. Whilst this may be true in certain cases, and in particular for landlords that have been burned in the past by such tenants, this is most certainly not true in the majority of cases.

The primary reason for not accepting rent supplement tenants, as mentioned before, is the maximum rents imposed by the government - which, as has been mentioned before, can be reduced at any time, even mid-contract.

At the end of the day, due to recent government policy, landlords know that, be accepting a rent supplement recipient, they are losing control of the ability to set their own rent based on their local markets. Why do this unless absolutely necessary? Again, in most cases, it's nothing to do with the tenant and everything to do with government policy.

Have we not already covered this ground? that tenants make up the difference themselves? I dont know anyone on RA who is benefitting from below market rent.

marathonic

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Agree with you 100%
At the end of the day, the biggest reason why LL's refuse those on RA is because they are prejudiced against them. Of course, this is not a popular thing to say and you will be met with all manner of denials and other excuses, but the dogs on the street know it to be true.

No, no, and no. And I could prove it - if I had the time and inclination.

All you have to do is look at the daft listings of rental properties in most towns in Ireland. Then compare that the maximum rents a landlord is allowed to charge rent supplement recipients (information available in link below).

Now, ask yourself, if I said to you that I'm willing to give you €400 per month or €500 per month for the next 12 months, which would you choose?

Some of my best tenants have been on social welfare. This was BEFORE the government brought in the maximum rent rules. Now, I avoid them where possible.

A daft advert that states 'no rent allowance' is basically a landlord saying 'I do not want to accept a rent that is below market rate'. Where exactly is the discrimination here?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html

OldNotWIse

marathonic wrote: »

No, no, and no. And I could prove it - if I had the time and inclination.

All you have to do is look at the daft listings of rental properties in most towns in Ireland. Then compare that the maximum rents a landlord is allowed to charge rent supplement recipients (information available in link below).

Now, ask yourself, if I said to you that I'm willing to give you €400 per month or €500 per month for the next 12 months, which would you choose?

Some of my best tenants have been on social welfare. This was BEFORE the government brought in the maximum rent rules. Now, I avoid them where possible.

A daft advert that states 'no rent allowance' is basically a landlord saying 'I do not want to accept a rent that is below market rate'. Where exactly is the discrimination here?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html

I really think you've just proved my point...

marathonic

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Have we not already covered this ground? that tenants make up the difference themselves? I dont know anyone on RA who is benefitting from below market rent.

This is NOT permitted.

I had a tenant that wanted to do this a couple of years ago. In order to do so, I would have to understate the rent in his rent book and on the forms that a landlord is periodically required to complete for the Social Welfare. I am not willing to commit fraud.

tinyk68

I hope that the op finds somewhere to rent but the system makes it very difficult for everyone involved. I'm a landlord and have a tenant on ra. He's not allowed to top up rent allowance payments so basically I can't charge enough rent to cover the mortgage on the property. Let's not even mention the rest of the costs involved! I'm losing money every month and wouldn't have taken someone on rent allowance if I hadn't been desperate to let the property. Outside of Dublin the market is still very slow so we have to take whatever we can get. He's no trouble but the place is filthy and will have to be professionally cleaned and painted whenever he leaves. More costs for me. Price fixing is supposed to be illegal but it is what rent allowance does and both sides loose out.

marathonic

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I really think you've just proved my point...

How exactly? I'm not going to get into a silly argument when it's obvious to all reading that I have COMPLETE disproved your point.

The_Morrigan

Seeing as the thread descended into madness, despite the Mod warning, we've decided to close the thread.