Real Madrid v Bayern Munich

astonaidan

WhatI dont get with Bayern is they have a world class DM in Martinez a world class RB in Lahm and yet they still play Rafinha

mada999

shrewdness wrote: »

Real really should have won by more, but it's still a good result. Score one next week and Bayern need three. With Ronaldo and Bale that bit fitter in another week, if they can get the first or even second goal they could kill Bayern on the counter as they push forward, on tonights evidence.

I've noticed Peps teams when they lose the ball in midfield, 1 or 2 players rush towards the opponent and more often than not they give a niggly foul away and stop the attack. The way to beat his teams is to get the ball to wings quickly and take a few of their players out of the game and keep the ball moving.

mada999

Lapin wrote: »

Imagine being stuck on a plane to New Zealand with those four fúckers.

would be some craic lad.. we'll miss them when they are gone and Richie u-17 champion and eyebrows cunningham will be running the show...

mada999

Pighead wrote: »

Strangely enough Jamie Redknapp layed into Jose last week after the Sunderland game.

yeah I remember that, and the face on hoddle and the presenter looked as if he said the queen was a hag

taidghbaby

mada999 wrote: »

would be some craic lad.. we'll miss them when they are gone and Richie u-17 champion and eyebrows cunningham will be running the show...

I won't! Self indulgent clowns in my mind!

dfx-

Rezident wrote: »

Hilarious, dunphy writing off bayern as a team and pep as a manager after one nil to real madrid in madrid. Considering Dunphy's record i must put a bet on munich to go through now.

It's funny to see people abandon Munich so quickly.

They had one excellent scoreline last season in Europe and everyone was running scared from them.

Seaneh

astonaidan wrote: »

WhatI dont get with Bayern is they have a world class DM in Martinez a world class RB in Lahm and yet they still play Rafinha

This is something that baffles me greatly, when he moved to Genoa I thought they'd made a good signing, halfway through the season I was convinced myself and Genoa had been wrong about how good he was or had the potential to be, then he goes back to Bayrern and spends a few seasons as backup, I was of the opinion he was never good enough to sign for bayern at all but would be decent backup.

Then, this season, he ends up a first choice right full, I can't understand it at all, he's is by far the weakest link in the Bayern team and what makes it worse is playing him means other players are used out of their usual positions, makes no sense at all.

castletownman

It appeared to me that when he brought Martinez on, that he crossed the ball more and used him as a target man. Despite being a beast of DM in the all-conquering side last year. Came across as desperation stations from Pep last night. In fact it was akin to Moyes lumping the ball up to Fellaini, and for that reason alone he should be criticised.

the incredible pudding

A few players were seemingly played out of position for Bayern yesterday.
I don't doubt Lahm's ability to play CM but considering how Martinez/Kroos/Schweinsteiger are better midfielders than Rafinha is a right back, surely the cost of not having him at RB far outweighs the benefit of having him in the middle. Ronaldo wasn't that fit so I reckon Lahm could have gotten much the better of him yesterday, as it happened, their goal came down the left and Rafinha wasn't close enough to Ronaldo to stop him slipping Coantrao through. Lahm and Robben have a great partnership and it's weird why he'd keep breaking it up.

Playing Sweinsteiger as the highest midfielder was odd too considering Kroos is more adept playing there and Sweinsteiger is better attacking from deep than receiving the ball in advanced areas, with his back to goal. Why not play Muller behind Mandzukic from the start?

You have to wonder if Guardiola is making changes sometimes just to be different. His lineup against United with the fullbacks constantly coming central made little sense and wasn't very effective and like last night it was only when they reverted back to the more Heynckes looking team that they started to look like posing a threat. Similarily, I'd understand maybe moving Lahm to a different position if he didn't have the legs for right back anymore but that's obviously not the case so why move the player who's arguably the best at his position somewhere else?

NIMAN

You definitely do get the feeling that Pep is trying to be too clever at times.

Lukker-

castletownman wrote: »

It appeared to me that when he brought Martinez on, that he crossed the ball more and used him as a target man. Despite being a beast of DM in the all-conquering side last year. Came across as desperation stations from Pep last night. In fact it was akin to Moyes lumping the ball up to Fellaini, and for that reason alone he should be criticised.

The "false 10", he used the same tactic against Dortmund to combat their high pressing. Don't really see why he needed to do it last night though.

I said it when he joined that I hoped he wouldn't alter their style too much. Heynckes should have been given one more seeing as what he won with them. His Bayern team played IMO the most progressive football of the last 10 years. Incredibly exciting. Now we have tika taka mk.2.

NIMAN

But Pep said he was happy and proud of his team last night.

If Madrid had taken a couple more of those gilt-edged chances, would he still have said that?

Boskowski

Deleted User wrote: »

Once again the proud city of Madrid proves to be the setting for the downfall of tiki-taka Guardiolaball. Last time it was the mighty Atletico Madrid who defeated the deflated and demoralised Catalans still trying to play to the tactics of a manager who abandoned them. Tonight the descendants of the Galacticos, overseen by the genius of Ancelotti, a man who played the game at the highest level winning 3 Serie A titles and 2 UEFA Cups before turning his intellect towards management, showed that philosophies can change but class won't. The combination of Italian pragmatism and Spanish flair made a mockery of the attempt at flair and perfect football by the Germanic opposition.

Why does this get any thanks? Might work if your looking for a job at Marca but an actual meaningful analysis it is not.

Anyway, albeit a bit delayed here is my bit.

I've been watching Bayern quite a bit and I feel Guardiola is not for me. We knew that all along but Pep has a type of style that attempts to suffocate the opposition by playing them to death. He is trying to administer the outcome of a football match rathe than play a football match, we heard the expression of lawn chess.
I didn't like it with Barcelona and I don't like it with Bayern. I prefer more direct play I want a team to show pull towards goal.

I think Bayern are good enough to do that lawn chess stuff generally speaking, but on Wednesday they were lacking - as so often in the latter stages of this season - any kind of surprise element. Of course the opposition was of a different calibre to what they're facing in the league every week but still. Bayern have become very predictable I feel and present not much of a tactical challenge for a high class team like Real.

When things didn't quite work out in the past for Barca they had a player like Messi to fall back on and come up with something extraordinary. Bayern don't have that player so everyone else has to be right on their game which sadly wasn't the case either. Especially the fact that both wingers didn't get much out of their opponents took any kind of threat out of Bayern.
Robben was quite Ok but found a match in Coentrao while Ribery had another poor game like he had so many in recent weeks. Carvajal had the better of him all night long.
Mandzukic played well but very often left out on a limb and often he was tied up in the build up play. So when Bayern actually managed to get some sort of move going that had the potential for a finish there was simply no one in the box to receive the final ball.
Schweinsteiger and Kroos played it well enough but like some other said I would have preferred Schweine to sit deeper and push Kroos up a bit. This whole Lahm in CM I don't know about either. He is good enough to do it but I feel Rafinha is just no adequate replacement. Boateng is not bad but this whole thing left him a few times exposed on the flanks where his lack of pace showed - he is a center back after all. He shouldn't have to cover out on the wing in the first place.
Also I'm waiting for the day where Neuer gets caught out with this farting around the back stuff. He's decent at it but I'm convinced the day will come and he will look right silly.

I'm not happy at all and unless Bayern can find some inspiration next week it will be over for them. I'd say it can be done especially after seeing Real crumble away to a nominally much weaker team than Bayern only two weeks ago, but if Tuesday is going to be a repeat of last Wednesday then its going to be good night Bayern.

Boskowski

NIMAN wrote: »

But Pep said he was happy and proud of his team last night.

If Madrid had taken a couple more of those gilt-edged chances, would he still have said that?

No he wouldn't have. On the other side if Goetze buries his chance everyone would be saying how it all went to plan for Bayern. The margins are very fine at this level.

Kirby

Deleted User wrote: »

Once again the proud city of Madrid proves to be the setting for the downfall of tiki-taka Guardiolaball. Last time it was the mighty Atletico Madrid who defeated the deflated and demoralised Catalans still trying to play to the tactics of a manager who abandoned them. Tonight the descendants of the Galacticos, overseen by the genius of Ancelotti, a man who played the game at the highest level winning 3 Serie A titles and 2 UEFA Cups before turning his intellect towards management, showed that philosophies can change but class won't. The combination of Italian pragmatism and Spanish flair made a mockery of the attempt at flair and perfect football by the Germanic opposition.

Boskowski wrote: »

Why does this get any thanks? Might work if your looking for a job at Marca but an actual meaningful analysis it is not.

If you aren't a regular forum viewer/poster, I can see why you would be a bit perplexed by it.

It's satire. He's slagging off a poster called "Andersonisgod" who regularly pontificates at how brilliant Barcelona are in grandiose and verbose statements. That's why it got thanks. Because it was a spot on imitation.

Boskowski

Kirby wrote: »

If you aren't a regular forum viewer/poster, I can see why you would be a bit perplexed by it.

It's satire. He's slagging off a poster called "Andersonisgod" who regularly pontificates at how brilliant Barcelona are in grandiose and verbose statements. That's why it got thanks. Because it was a spot on imitation.

Thanks I did indeed not know that. Sorry Buttonftw.

Boskowski

Boskowski wrote: »

Thanks I did indeed not know that. Sorry Buttonftw.

I thought Marca was Real's paper anyway? :pac:

Boskowski

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought Marca was Real's paper anyway? :pac:

And they love their colourful language

Idbatterim

great post Boskowski, how long is Peps contract? Will Bayern fans be happy with what they are seeing or if they get knocked out, will a change in style be called for and would Guardiola adapt / adjust or pull a Trappatoni? If I were a fan, I would be really pissed off, why fix perfection? to watch this absolute joke?!

Boskowski

Idbatterim wrote: »

great post Boskowski, how long is Peps contract? Will Bayern fans be happy with what they are seeing or if they get knocked out, will a change in style be called for and would Guardiola adapt / adjust or pull a Trappatoni? If I were a fan, I would be really pissed off, why fix perfection? to watch this absolute joke?!

2 more years and he said he always wanted the full term. Funny though the way he was quoted just yesterday it sounded almost like an implied ruling out of a possible contract extension. 'I want to stay two more years here'.

It was always a lose lose situation for the new manager. How do you follow a treble? I can't see him being questioned too hard any time soon.
And despite my criticism about Bayern over the last few weeks they have been fantastic this season overall. They are still on to win the treble and who's to say they won't do it.

I just personally think last year they had more threat about them.

Turtwig

I think Pep's problem, has and always will be, he keeps trying to adapt new game tactics. In his last season with Barca they played 3-3-4 4-3-3 4-1-4-1 2-3-3-2 and so on. He was tinkering Bayern all match long and I got the impression some of the player were confused as to what he was instructing. Teams have also become wiser to possession based templates. Not only that but possession based templates have even finer margin for errors. Hence why Arsenal often get torn apart when the first team has significant injuries.

Be under no illusion Heckynes style would needed to refined anyway. The same formula only works for a very limited amount of time especially if it's winning! Everyone studies it and weaknesses are spotted quicker. To contrast the two. Pep's original Barca team only enjoyed about 55% possession in most games. However, that was playing to their advantage as they found space easier to come by. So teams learned to sit deeper, or by extension, they were forced to and learned to adapt. Either way they learned to counter act the style and pep had to change it. Bayern of last season were good but had they played the Inter of '10 they still would have struggled.