Scottish Independence discussion area

Fratton Fred

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Scotland has 52 out of 600 MPs in Westminster. Approx 9%, so even if all Scottish MPs agree on something they can be outvoted 10 times over.

I would most definitely call that being ruled over.

So, again then, northern Ireland would be mad to vote for unification then? Independence is their best option.

bobbysands81

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So, again then, northern Ireland would be mad to vote for unification then? Independence is their best option.

Apples and oranges but whatever happens we live in a democracy and the democratic will of the people will have to be respected.

Comparing the two is facile and intentionally so.

The Diabolical Monocle

So hard to read London some times.
So perfidious and duplicitous, tis hard to know if any offer is genuine.

If I was making the call I'd go for the offer of partial independence but only with the agreement to a rerun of the referendum next year.

EunanMac

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So, again then, northern Ireland would be mad to vote for unification then? Independence is their best option.

Hardly, seeing as, unlike Scotland, NI pays only approx 6k per head in taxes, while costing the UK gov 10.5k per head.

No one wants the British created cess pit that is NI, the UK are currently stuck with them, but unlike Scotland, NI is not self sustaining.

kingchess

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What country rules Scotland presently then?

the COUNTRY that controls the check book??,the scottish revenue all goes to London,who then returns a block grant to the Scottish government to spend,

Scottie99

Zonda999 wrote: »

The coverage of this really seems to have notched up in the last few days, I now expects the vested interests of the British media to do whatever they see fit to try and scare Scotland into voting No. Up to now, I think the same vested interests strategy was to try to give the referendum as little attention as possible.

If anyone wants to see any example of that scare tactic, the Daily Mail does a pretty good job of it

The scare tactics have been going for months and months. It's called #projectfear

Fratton Fred

kingchess wrote: »

the COUNTRY that controls the check book??,the scottish revenue all goes to London,who then returns a block grant to the Scottish government to spend,

Which country is that? Last I heard, London is a city.

Scottie99

pablomakaveli wrote: »

It's not really like that though is it? The Scots can elect their own representatives to Westminster who have a say on what goes on there. I wouldn't call that being ruled over.

But don't influence the outcome of General Elections. Presently the Tories are in power, we've only one Tory in Scotland

Scottie99

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Which country is that? Last I heard, London is a city.

Don't be facetious..

Iwasfrozen

Scottie99 wrote: »

Don't be facetious..

You're being facetious. You may as well say Edinburgh opresses Glasgow sincere former has control of the latters finances. Newsflash. That's how every country in the world works.

Fratton Fred

Scottie99 wrote: »

Don't be facetious..

Is it a difficult question then?

Fratton Fred

Scottie99 wrote: »

But don't influence the outcome of General Elections. Presently the Tories are in power, we've only one Tory in Scotland

We've just come out of a decade of rule by Labour with consecutive Scottish prime ministers. I presume that's ok, but elect a government you don't like and suddenly it's poor old Scotland.

A Dub in Glasgo

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You're being facetious. You may as well say Edinburgh opresses Glasgow sincere former has control of the latters finances. Newsflash. That's how every country in the world works.

Scotland is a country, it is in a union with another country that is obviously unequal therefore a decision is to be made if Scotland would like self-determination

A Dub in Glasgo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

We've just come out of a decade of rule by Labour with consecutive Scottish prime ministers. I presume that's ok, but elect a government you don't like and suddenly it's poor old Scotland.

It would only be the same if the majority of MP's from England were Tory and only by Labour MP's from Scotland would Labour govern. That is not what happened and you well know it.

Fratton Fred

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Scotland is a country, it is in a union with another country that is obviously unequal therefore a decision is to be made if Scotland would like self-determination

Two other countries and a sort of semi country I think you'll find. There's four unique members of the union.

Fratton Fred

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

It would only be the same if the majority of MP's from England were Tory and only by Labour MP's from Scotland would Labour govern. That is not what happened and you well know it.

No, but it seems that Scotland only go on about Tory rule being unfair.

irishfeen

Scottie99 wrote: »

Salmond making some great points

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=OJgSPN_LBEM

Yep, some very good points he made there - the NO side have to be careful now not to push neutrals into the YES side ... their credibility seems to be on shaky ground even as it is.

A Dub in Glasgo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Two other countries and a sort of semi country I think you'll find. There's four unique members of the union.

I put Wales into the same 'sort of semi country' as well

Scottie99

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You're being facetious. You may as well say Edinburgh opresses Glasgow sincere former has control of the latters finances. Newsflash. That's how every country in the world works.

When the lad said London he meant the centre of power - he was been facetious

Scottie99

Fratton Fred wrote: »

No, but it seems that Scotland only go on about Tory rule being unfair.

Even if it was Labour, we voted SNP. Could SNP get a majority in Westminister?

Fratton Fred

Scottie99 wrote: »

Even if it was Labour, we voted SNP. Could SNP get a majority in Westminister?

The SNP have only ever had one majority in Scotland and that's on the back of Labour bankrupting the country and the liberals selling out.

Fratton Fred

Scottie99 wrote: »

When the lad said London he meant the centre of power - he was been facetious

Maybe you could answer "the lad" is struggling to answer. Which country rules Scotland?

kingchess

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Two other countries and a sort of semi country I think you'll find. There's four unique members of the union.

I am curious but when did Wales vote to join the Union??the year and Date if you would be so good:rolleyes:

snowstorm445

There's an issue relating to this topic that I often wonder about.

Presuming the Scots vote yes in this referendum (although IMO they will probably end up saying no), and secedes from the UK, will it still be regarded as the UK? Will the rump state of England, NI and Wales still refer to itself as a United Kingdom? Will the overall demonym still be "British"?

I think most would agree that whatever state emerges from Scotland's departure will have to undergo some rebranding.

Fratton Fred

kingchess wrote: »

I am curious but when did Wales vote to join the Union??the year and Date if you would be so good:rolleyes:

Dunno, don't care. Probably about the time they started kicking the hornets nest.

Skylinehead

snowstorm445 wrote: »

There's an issue relating to this topic that I often wonder about.

Presuming the Scots vote yes in this referendum (although IMO they will probably end up saying no), and secedes from the UK, will it still be regarded as the UK? Will the rump state of England, NI and Wales still refer to itself as a United Kingdom? Will the overall demonym still be "British"?

I think most would agree that whatever state emerges from Scotland's departure will have to undergo some rebranding.

Well it certainly wouldn't be united any more.

"The United Kingdom of Great Britain minus Scotland and Ireland minus most of Ireland"

Has a good ring to it :pac:

irishfeen

The national side are really doing their bit to put fire into the belly of the Scots - preforming wonderfully well against the Germans.

kefir32

snowstorm445 wrote: »

There's an issue relating to this topic that I often wonder about.

Presuming the Scots vote yes in this referendum (although IMO they will probably end up saying no), and secedes from the UK, will it still be regarded as the UK? Will the rump state of England, NI and Wales still refer to itself as a United Kingdom? Will the overall demonym still be "British"?

I think most would agree that whatever state emerges from Scotland's departure will have to undergo some rebranding.

Britain and Northern Ireland - BNI or EWNI, doesn't have the same ring as UK though

EunanMac

I wonder what it feels like for the Brits to feel Scotland slipping away from their grasp forever ?

Scottie99

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Maybe you could answer "the lad" is struggling to answer. Which country rules Scotland?

I think being the dominant country, yes England seems to rule the Union

Scottie99

England seem to be dominant in Westminster or "London"

dd972

I hope they vote Yes, then the Welsh and then the English could wake up and get to grips with the fact they've been slaves to Eton, Oxbridge, Rupert Murdoch and the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha's.

westcoast66

Skylinehead wrote: »

Well it certainly wouldn't be united any more.

"The United Kingdom of Great Britain minus Scotland and Ireland minus most of Ireland"

Has a good ring to it :pac:

The United Kingdom of Southern Britain and Northern Ireland.

kingchess

just call it Little Britain

kefir32

Will be known as Britain......... still counts for 2/3 the landmass. Simple and snappy term for the rump UK

EunanMac

kingchess wrote: »

just call it Little Britain

A (small) country is born !

Fratton Fred

Scottie99 wrote: »

I think being the dominant country, yes England seems to rule the Union

Despite a decade of Scottish prime ministers?

Fratton Fred

dd972 wrote: »

I hope they vote Yes, then the Welsh and then the English could wake up and get to grips with the fact they've been slaves to Eton, Oxbridge, Rupert Murdoch and the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha's.

You forgot the Rothschilds

pablomakaveli

EunanMac wrote: »

I wonder what it feels like for the Brits to feel Scotland slipping away from their grasp forever ?

Impression i get is the regular Brit isn't that bothered.

EunanMac

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Impression i get is the regular Brit isn't that bothered.

I get the opposite impression

A Dub in Glasgo

She is the 1st Queen Elizabeth of Scotland and under Salmond's plan for independence, she will still be the 1st Queen of Scotland

A Dub in Glasgo

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Impression i get is the regular Brit isn't that bothered.

Who is the regular Brit?

A Dub in Glasgo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Despite a decade of Scottish prime ministers?

You are conflating Prime Ministers who are Scottish with those who act in Scotland's interest

Dyr

Renamed to the kingdom of innit

eeepaulo

Bookies seem to think No

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/scottish-independence/referendum-outcome

Although bloomberg think sterling is about to slide as the market recognises the real possibility,

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-09-07/pound-in-peril-as-opinion-poll-puts-scottish-separatists-ahead.html

Peanut

Seems like a disaster waiting to happen, purely due to the vagueness of it all.

The concept of "we'll figure it out later" as regards the currency especially doesn't exactly inspire confidence - how long in advance was the Euro switch-over planned here? (And that was with consensus between the affected parties).

Richard

kefir32 wrote: »

Britain and Northern Ireland - BNI or EWNI, doesn't have the same ring as UK though

So it'll almost certainly stay as "UK".

EunanMac

eeepaulo wrote: »

Bookies seem to think No

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/scottish-independence/referendum-outcome

I thought the odds would be around evens, worth a punt at those odds, the bookies are in for a hiding if there is a yes vote

Richard

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

She is the 1st Queen Elizabeth of Scotland and under Salmond's plan for independence, she will still be the 1st Queen of Scotland

She isn't Queen of Scotland currently, nor is she Queen of England. She's Queen Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom.

Richard

Scottie99 wrote: »

Even if it was Labour, we voted SNP. Could SNP get a majority in Westminister?

In the 2010 UK General Election, 42% of the Scottish electorate voted Labour, but only 20% voted SNP, 19% voted LibDem and 17% voted Conservative. So SNP weren't exactly winners there.