Scottish Independence discussion area

Red Nissan

What happened to the [img][/img]?

cloud493

Images don't work on AH.

Red Nissan

cloud493 wrote: »

Images don't work on AH.

Well blow me down with a feather, never knew that. Thanks.

Billy86

cloud493 wrote: »

Images don't work on AH.

For some weird reason, they do when you're viewing on a phone.


It's amazing how the English channels have all kicked into high gear scaremongering in the last few days.

feargale

feargale wrote: »

What was India before 1948? Egypt in the 19th century? "The Kingdom of Ireland" in the 18th century?

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Colony, colony

"Mohammed which colony do you come from?"

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

and kingdom/region.

Which region won the rugby triple crown in 1899?

Fratton Fred

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I presumed he was extracting the urine

Helping the yes side save face for when they lose.

Happyman42

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I presumed he was extracting the urine

Unionists in denial.
Wonder what they will call their political beliefs if the 'Union' breaks up?

Billy86

Reunionists?

Iwasfrozen

I'm pretty sure they'd still be unionists....

Happyman42

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I'm pretty sure they'd still be unionists....

I'm pretty sure they would then be pointless.

kingchess

Scotland,Wales and England are Countries,but are not independent-because they do not have full control over their own affairs, the United Kingdom is an independent Country,(all information thanks to the all wise Google)

Muahahaha

Bambi wrote: »

See the royals have lined up a new sprogg in response to the crisis, can't fault them for effort

The Guardian reported that David Cameroon spent most of yesterday in a meeting with the Queen dubbed 'crisis talks'. Apparantly the YouGov poll that showed the Yes side in the lead for the first time sent shivers up her spine. I'd say she is none too happy with Cameroon right now so if the Yes side do win his head is really on the line because no doubt Boris Johnson is sitting in the background sharpening the knives and thinking of a leadership bid in advance of the general election next year.

In any case Id say the Queen is furious about how this is now playing out. No one ever thought an independent Scotland possible and now it has become a very possible reality. Just to make matters more interesting the Guardian reported that the Queen is due to be in Scotland on the day of the vote. It'll be interesting to watch the media management of the Queen if Scottish people literally vote her off the land in front of her very eyes ! The offical line from Buckingham Palace yesterday was that the Queen stays neutral on the Scottish issue but her hours long emergency meeting with Cameroon seems to suggest the complete opposite. She is pulling strings in the background to ensure Scotland remains part of the union. An independent Scotland means no more Balmoral garden parties in the summer, the horror !

In any case if the yes side does prevail then Alex Salmond is going to be a very busy man. In the first few months alone he would have to-
-Immediately make a statement to the markets with the Bank of England regarding Scottish debt, Sterling
-Begin nehotiations as to NATO status
-Meet all 27 EU members to discuss membership for an independent Scotland.

He could be a very busy man if he pulls off independence.

eeepaulo

Spare a thought for all the normal people of northern ireland, wales and england

Iwasfrozen

Happyman42 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure they would then be pointless.

You really have it in for unionists and I've never understood why, believing that all the people of the British Isles should be united under one government is a legitimate political aspiration.

porsche959

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You really have it in for unionists and I've never understood why, believing that all the people of the British Isles should be united under one government is a legitimate political aspiration.

United under one government is interesting and perhaps revealing choice of expression.

Republicans prefer government to be answerable to the people, which is why we reject feudalism/monarchy.

porsche959

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Or maybe people are thinking "if we say yes in the polls, we'll get promised more and more, even though we will vote no". They'd be daft not to in fairness.

I find this a rather dodgy thesis, but if you are correct, the concessions being made by the London establishment are fairly sketchy though, aren't they.

You'd think that an oil rich nation might be offered guarantees of some of its oil revenues, for example.

Iwasfrozen

porsche959 wrote: »

United under one government is interesting and perhaps revealing choice of expression.

I hate to tell you but in a republic we are united under the government.

Republicans prefer government to be answerable to the people, which is why we reject feudalism/monarchy.

That doesn't follow. The government of a constitutional monarchy is just as answerable to its citizens as the government of a republic.

Also don't equate unionism with monarchism, a person can be a republican unionist, i.e. desire to see all the people of the British Isles united under a republic.

sinead88

I'm Irish but I've lived in Edinburgh for the last 4 years. I plan on voting yes. I do a lot of volunteering for the Yes Scotland campaign, canvassing, leafleting, and helping at street stalls. The atmosphere here just now is absolutely amazing in that the majority of Scotland is completely engaged in the debate. I've met plenty of people who have never bothered to vote before, who are now actively involved in campaigning. Although the SNP is obviously at the forefront of the Yes side in the referendum, it is the people, rather than politicians who are pushing the campaign forward. It is a real grassroots effort, which has become a social movement that has brought all sorts of people from multiple backgrounds together. Regardless of the outcome of the referendum, the feeling we all now have, that the people of the country can make a real difference to the running of it, can only be a good thing. Also, I can say with certainty that the Yes campaign has nothing to do with nationalism and everything to do with the desire for real democracy.

Iwasfrozen

sinead88 wrote: »

I'm Irish but I've lived in Edinburgh for the last 4 years. I plan on voting yes. I do a lot of volunteering for the Yes Scotland campaign, canvassing, leafleting, and helping at street stalls. The atmosphere here just now is absolutely amazing in that the majority of Scotland is completely engaged in the debate. I've met plenty of people who have never bothered to vote before, who are now actively involved in campaigning. Although the SNP is obviously at the forefront of the Yes side in the referendum, it is the people, rather than politicians who are pushing the campaign forward. It is a real grassroots effort, which has become a social movement that has brought all sorts of people from multiple backgrounds together. Regardless of the outcome of the referendum, the feeling we all now have, that the people of the country can make a real difference to the running of it, can only be a good thing. Also, I can say with certainty that the Yes campaign has nothing to do with nationalism and everything to do with the desire for real democracy.

Scotland could be on the verge of social unrest if this referendum is defeated. you've got a highly divided population and that's not a good thing.

jank

porsche959 wrote: »

United under one government is interesting and perhaps revealing choice of expression.

Republicans prefer government to be answerable to the people, which is why we reject feudalism/monarchy.

China is a republic (and North Korea), yet its political system is more akin to feudalism than anything else. Sweden and the Netherlands are constitutional monarchies. Which country do you think gives the individual more power and say in the political process.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

China is a republic (and North Korea), yet its political system is more akin to feudalism than anything else. Sweden and the Netherlands are constitutional monarchies. Which country do you think gives the individual more power and say in the political process.

Being a tad selective with the examples there, aren't we?

jank

Nodin wrote: »

Being a tad selective with the examples there, aren't we?

Just dismantling his point. Republicanism = good, monarchy = bad is something that most Irish people grow out of when they reach puberty and look at the world with knowing.

BonnieSituation

Latest TNS poll showing both sides tied on 41 a piece...

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/poll-confirms-surge-in-support-for-scottish-independence-1.1922605

Fratton Fred

Muahahaha wrote: »

The Guardian reported that David Cameroon spent most of yesterday in a meeting with the Queen dubbed 'crisis talks'. Apparantly the YouGov poll that showed the Yes side in the lead for the first time sent shivers up her spine. I'd say she is none too happy with Cameroon right now so if the Yes side do win his head is really on the line because no doubt Boris Johnson is sitting in the background sharpening the knives and thinking of a leadership bid in advance of the general election next year.

In any case Id say the Queen is furious about how this is now playing out. No one ever thought an independent Scotland possible and now it has become a very possible reality. Just to make matters more interesting the Guardian reported that the Queen is due to be in Scotland on the day of the vote. It'll be interesting to watch the media management of the Queen if Scottish people literally vote her off the land in front of her very eyes ! The offical line from Buckingham Palace yesterday was that the Queen stays neutral on the Scottish issue but her hours long emergency meeting with Cameroon seems to suggest the complete opposite. She is pulling strings in the background to ensure Scotland remains part of the union. An independent Scotland means no more Balmoral garden parties in the summer, the horror !

In any case if the yes side does prevail then Alex Salmond is going to be a very busy man. In the first few months alone he would have to-
-Immediately make a statement to the markets with the Bank of England regarding Scottish debt, Sterling
-Begin nehotiations as to NATO status
-Meet all 27 EU members to discuss membership for an independent Scotland.

He could be a very busy man if he pulls off independence.

How many times does this need pointing out?

Scotland is not voting to remove the monarchy.

Fratton Fred

Happyman42 wrote: »

Unionists in denial.
Wonder what they will call their political beliefs if the 'Union' breaks up?

You love to put people in to convenient pigeon holes don't you?

Scottie99

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

How much have you dropped on a yes win now?

A few extra bob:o

Broxi_Bear_Eire

LordSutch wrote: »

If there is a Yes vote it will be one of the most momentous events in the hstory of these islands. It really would be a massive event if Scotlasnd actually left the UK, and I'm not sure that people fully understand the enormity of an exit, or the implications for Scotland & whats left of the UK.

From the armed forces to the NHS, to the stability of NI, to the UKs place on the world stage, to an independent scotlands economic threat to the ROI. Then there's Camerons position as PM (of the remainder of the UK) which would be seriously called into question!

Scotlands exit might also spur other regions/countries in europe to consider seperation too, which wouldn't be too popular in Spain & Italy for example.

Hopefully Scotland will stay in the Union with the offer of 'Devo Max' saving the day. Devo Max really should have been on the ballot paper IMO.

You do know that offers made and I find that funny are against the rules of the referendum this close to the date. Also the fact that the so called offer contains nothing of substance is a joke why should people believe that anything is on the table.

Scottie99

Apparently Salmonds own polls have an eight point lead for YES.
Also the Scottish Sun will be coming out in support of the YES campaign.

Scottie99

There is no stopping the YES campaign now, it's been built at grassroots level. Personally, I think it'll be a 10+ gap come the 19th. Speaking to people in know (SPN) Glasgow is a yes Edinburgh is edging to YES, Dundee is a massive yes (70%). It's spreading like wildfire...

Fratton Fred

sinead88 wrote: »

I'm Irish but I've lived in Edinburgh for the last 4 years. I plan on voting yes. I do a lot of volunteering for the Yes Scotland campaign, canvassing, leafleting, and helping at street stalls. The atmosphere here just now is absolutely amazing in that the majority of Scotland is completely engaged in the debate. I've met plenty of people who have never bothered to vote before, who are now actively involved in campaigning. Although the SNP is obviously at the forefront of the Yes side in the referendum, it is the people, rather than politicians who are pushing the campaign forward. It is a real grassroots effort, which has become a social movement that has brought all sorts of people from multiple backgrounds together. Regardless of the outcome of the referendum, the feeling we all now have, that the people of the country can make a real difference to the running of it, can only be a good thing. Also, I can say with certainty that the Yes campaign has nothing to do with nationalism and everything to do with the desire for real democracy.

Out of curiosity, how would you feel if a Scot was campaigning in Ireland, for Ireland to rejoin the UK?

Fratton Fred

Scottie99 wrote: »

There is no stopping the YES campaign now, it's been built at grassroots level. Personally, I think it'll be a 10+ gap come the 19th. Speaking to people in know (SPN) Glasgow is a yes Edinburgh is edging to YES, Dundee is a massive yes (70%). It's spreading like wildfire...

Hhmmm, I admire your confidence. Will you be back here on the 20th if there is a no vote?

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Out of curiosity, how would you feel if a Scot was campaigning in Ireland, for Ireland to rejoin the UK?

He has lived there for four years he has every right to campaign for yes or no whatever he see's fit. I know of English people canvassing for a yes vote in fact the have an official group. Seriously Fred if people live and have made their home in a country why should they not get involved

Happyman42

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You really have it in for unionists and I've never understood why, believing that all the people of the British Isles should be united under one government is a legitimate political aspiration.

Indeed it is a legitimate political aspiration but is it a 'credible' one anymore?

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You love to put people in to convenient pigeon holes don't you?

I thought Unionists put themselves in that box by naming themselves 'Unionists'?
I have always said that NI Unionism has been in denial about themselves since the GFA...now that their heads are about to be yanked out of the sand I am asking what do they call themselves if there is no Union anymore?
Will they face the reality that their philosophies are outdated and out of time?

Michael D Not Higgins

Happyman42 wrote: »

I thought Unionists put themselves in that box by naming themselves 'Unionists'?
I have always said that NI Unionism has been in denial about themselves since the GFA...now that their heads are about to be yanked out of the sand I am asking what do they call themselves if there is no Union anymore?
Will they face the reality that their philosophies are outdated and out of time?

There will still be a union between England, Wales and Northern Ireland. If anything it will make them more fervent and probably the nationalists will be spurred on. As some other people have suggested, it may destabilise Northern Ireland should there be a yes vote.

Fratton Fred

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

He has lived there for four years he has every right to campaign for yes or no whatever he see's fit. I know of English people canvassing for a yes vote in fact the have an official group. Seriously Fred if people live and have made their home in a country why should they not get involved

Then I presume there is no problem with a Scot that has lived in Ireland for four years campaigning to rejoin the union?

Funny you should mention the English campaigning for a yes vote. My Scottish friend who lives in Dublin argues that the best reason to vote no, is because the English want the Scots to vote yes!

Fratton Fred

Happyman42 wrote: »

I thought Unionists put themselves in that box by naming themselves 'Unionists'?
I have always said that NI Unionism has been in denial about themselves since the GFA...now that their heads are about to be yanked out of the sand I am asking what do they call themselves if there is no Union anymore?
Will they face the reality that their philosophies are outdated and out of time?

Good old arrogance from you again, typical.

LordSutch

Manufacturers & designers of flags & atlases will be kept very busy in the coming months should there be a Yes vote.

It will be weird looking at the map of Great Britain with Scotland marked in a different colour.

Scotland; population five million, currency = Euro/British pound? Health service = No NHS (work in progress), Broadcasting: No BBC anymore/ new body to be set up? Defence = No British Army, No RAF, No Royal Navy . . . . the list is endless, and yes of course all this can be sorted out, but it won't happen overnight, indeed it may take many years if not decades to get things ironed out (if the divorce goes ahead).

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Then I presume there is no problem with a Scot that has lived in Ireland for four years campaigning to rejoin the union?

Funny you should mention the English campaigning for a yes vote. My Scottish friend who lives in Dublin argues that the best reason to vote no, is because the English want the Scots to vote yes!

No that is his decision I would disagree with him but it would be his right to do so

Broxi_Bear_Eire

LordSutch wrote: »

Manufacturers & designers of flags & atlases will be kept very busy in the coming months should there be a Yes vote.

It will be weird looking at the map of Great Britain with Scotland marked in a different colour.

Scotland; population five million, currency = Euro/British pound? Health service = No NHS (work in progress), Broadcasting: No BBC anymore/ new body to be set up? Defence = No British Army, No RAF, No Royal Navy . . . . the list is endless, and yes of course all this can be sorted out, but it won't happen overnight, indeed it may take many years if not decades to get things ironed out (if the divorce goes ahead).

I find the fact you seem to think losing the BBC is somehow important. They would lose BBC Scotland which isn't all that different from the normal beeb and like over here it would be picked up. I don't know where you get if I am picking you up right no NHS I am pretty certain It will be there

Happyman42

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Good old arrogance from you again, typical.

Not arrogance, just satisfaction that so many are now seeing that the 'Union' isn't all it was cracked up to be, that there is a better way. That 'nationhood' is in fact, important.
The Union is not immutable, that is the reality N.I. Unionists have yet to face, Southern Ireland and certain sections within it need to grapple with that as well.
Interesting times ahead.

Fratton Fred

Happyman42 wrote: »

Not arrogance, just satisfaction that so many are now seeing that the 'Union' isn't all it was cracked up to be, that there is a better way. That 'nationhood' is in fact, important.
The Union is not immutable, that is the reality N.I. Unionists have yet to face, Southern Ireland and certain sections within it need to grapple with that as well.
Interesting times ahead.

And there we have a lovely summary of why Irish republicans are so keen for Scotland to vote yes.

eeepaulo

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

I find the fact you seem to think losing the BBC is somehow important. They would lose BBC Scotland which isn't all that different from the normal beeb and like over here it would be picked up. I don't know where you get if I am picking you up right no NHS I am pretty certain It will be there

I think the point they were making was that there is a lot that needs to be sorted out, there does seem to be a lot of vague ideas.
.
Thats politics everywhere now isnt it, style over substance then they call it a mandate to behave in anyway they see fit after, hopefully, if they do get independence it will be different.

A Dub in Glasgo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Out of curiosity, how would you feel if a Scot was campaigning in Ireland, for Ireland to rejoin the UK?

If that Scot was eligible to vote, then what is the problem with it?

Barely There

Happyman42 wrote: »

. That 'nationhood' is in fact, important.

The concept of nationhood is an entirely artifical construct which is only important to close-minded individuals.

Fratton Fred

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

If that Scot was eligible to vote, then what is the problem with it?

Which, of course, they would not be.

If/when Scotland becomes independent, will all these non Scots who are voting in the referendum be eligable to vote?

Michael D Not Higgins

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Which, of course, they would not be.

If/when Scotland becomes independent, will all these non Scots who are voting in the referendum be eligable to vote?

Another unknown, the SNP has said that whoever's in Scotland now can stay, but how the voting rights work is something else. Perhaps everyone on the electoral register will be allowed continue to vote and they will draft new rules for newcomers?

Happyman42

Barely There wrote: »

is an entirely artifical construct

...and the Union is what exactly?

Fratton Fred

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Another unknown, the SNP has said that whoever's in Scotland now can stay, but how the voting rights work is something else. Perhaps everyone on the electoral register will be allowed continue to vote and they will draft new rules for newcomers?

So will they all become Scottish citizens? What about the 800,000 thousand Scots living elsewhere in the UK? Will they automatically get a Scottish passport?

Fratton Fred

Happyman42 wrote: »

...and the Union is what exactly?

Something you will never understand or appreciate.

Barely There

Happyman42 wrote: »

...and the Union is what exactly?

When you've managed to figure out why the question concerns you so much, you'll be a good way down the path to becoming am more enlightened member of the planet's population.