Scottish Independence discussion area

porsche959

porsche959 wrote: »

IMO it is indeed scaremongering pure and simple, reason being that HQ of a bank just means where their registered office is denominated, has very little implications for numbers they employ.

IFSC in Dublin have many bank headquarters that actually employ feck all staff there.

True. There will certainly be job losses though, or I expect there would.

The flip side is that there may be job gains elsewhere. I am not someone who thinks Scotland cannot be independent (of course it can), just that it's crazy to pretend there isn't going to be a lot of difficult stuff to get through first.

magma69

porsche959 wrote: »

Odd expression to use considering many that have commented in this thread are actual Scottish people, some of whom favour Yes side, others the No side.

Not really. The vast majority of posters on this site are Irish.

Madam

magma69 wrote: »

Not really. The vast majority of posters on this site are Irish.

That is true but most of us live in Scotland:)

A Dub in Glasgo

Deleted User wrote: »

When exactly did pointing out what is going to happen become 'scaremongering'?

It's an absolute certainty this will happen with independence. It appears every time the No camp question what the plan is around some pretty fundamental stuff, the Yes response is 'scaremongering'.

When UKIP get their EU referendum are you going to accuse the no camp of 'scaremongering' if they point out that leaving will cause companies to relocate elsewhere?

Barely There wrote: »

How do you know it's not true?

It is happening and there will little impact to Scotland, the scaremongering is claiming that RBS & Lloyds are pulling out of Scotland the implication being loads of job losses and the people of Scotland will have no access to banking.

It is unreal what the people of Scotland are being told by the TV & Newspapers

Madam

This makes interesting reading.

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/why-did-the-banks-only-become-scottish-after-they-failed/

Harry Palmr

The big banks will move south for legal reasons. Not that legal reasons should be overlooked of course if the **** hits the fan. Scotland will have no means of stopping a run on the banks should one occur as I don't see where they will get 100-120bn quid from (who will lend them that money and on what terms if they did get it?).

Have the SNP actually addressed any of the macro financials? It looks like they are putting their faith in the Bank of Hope.

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

It is happening and there will little impact to Scotland, the scaremongering is claiming that RBS & Lloyds are pulling out of Scotland the implication being loads of job losses and the people of Scotland will have no access to banking.

It is unreal what the people of Scotland are being told by the TV & Newspapers

Well, it's both 'unreal' and 'real'. I don't read most english papers and I'll be honest I don't read any scottish ones but whilst there are definitely a lot of what could be called scare stories out there, it does appear that many people are not fully aware of all the implications.

One trivial example - the current 'free fees' situation in scottish universities is only really viable because english students still have to pay. If Scotland becomes an independent country in Europe, that will change and scottish universities will become flooded with english students, crowding out the scots.

Maybe a small thing, but it is one of the most popular policies that Holyrood has delivered. Independence will almost certainly mean it has to end.

FURET

Well worth a watch - a very prescient exchange from 1992:

BonnieSituation

There's no comparing that panel with what we have today for politicians. Imagine if John Smith hadn't died...

Kermit.de.frog

It would be a bit sad if Scots voted to stay in the UK against the backdrop of all the threats, mostly economic, from England. What kind of a union is that? The banks and other corporations are working hand in glove with the British government to frighten the electorate.

Harry Palmr

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It would be a bit sad if Scots voted to stay in the UK against the backdrop of all the threats, mostly economic, from England. What kind of a union is that? The banks and other corporations are working hand in glove with the British government to frighten the electorate.

They'd get DevoMax which is what most Scots would be happy enough with.

Home Rule without the actual bother of having to invent a currency, borrow a backstop reserve, negotiate treaties with the Rest of the World on many fronts and not always getting a very good deal and so on.

Madam

Harry Palmr wrote: »

They'd get DevoMax which is what most Scots would be happy enough with.

Home Rule without the actual bother of having to invent a currency, borrow a backstop reserve, negotiate treaties with the Rest of the World on many fronts and not always getting a very good deal and so on.

It's a pity Devomax is not on the table:(

Kermit.de.frog

Harry Palmr wrote: »

They'd get DevoMax which is what most Scots would be happy enough with.

Home Rule without the actual bother of having to invent a currency, borrow a backstop reserve, negotiate treaties with the Rest of the World on many fronts and not always getting a very good deal and so on.

So Scots could not be bothered doing what the nations of the world have to do?

I don't believe that. I believe they are scared now due to the choreographed brow beating and scare mongering from London. That is all staged.

porsche959

BonnieSituation wrote: »

There's no comparing that panel with what we have today for politicians. Imagine if John Smith hadn't died...

Interesting that of those on the panel that are still with us only Salmond has increased his public profile and influence since.

I also have impression Question Time was much better back then.

These days I prefer to watch a spoof to the real thing:

BonnieSituation

In fairness Heseltine and Beith are of an age that they should be less noticeable now. Salmond has youth on his side.

Incidentally Smith would have been 76 this coming Saturday.

A Dub in Glasgo

Harry Palmr wrote: »

They'd get DevoMax
.

No they don't

BonnieSituation

And then this happened:

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/510099132334481409

kingchess

in fairness they said prices MAY rise,the banks said no jobs losses because they may move their HQ"s to London,and of course they may move to Dublin if UK vote to leave EU,IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOW YOU SPIN THE STORY,both sides are putting their own slant on every bit of what might happen,one expert saying the exact opposite to the expert from the other side

Donkey Oaty

Guardian says, re. that tweet:

According to the BBC, Number 10 are saying that David Cameron’s meeting with supermarket bosses today and that Scotland was not mentioned.

Someone is not being truthful with us here.

BonnieSituation

kingchess wrote: »

in fairness they said prices MAY rise,the banks said no jobs losses because they may move their HQ"s to London,and of course they may move to Dublin if UK vote to leave EU,IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOW YOU SPIN THE STORY,both sides are putting their own slant on every bit of what might happen,one expert saying the exact opposite to the expert from the other side

It doesn't matter whether they said "may" or "would". The typical voter will only hear "price rises".

Donkey Oaty

Tonight's BBC TV debate has a panel consisting of Green, a Conservative, SNP Deputy and a cat-impersonator, but strangely no Labour representative.

It's a Q&A in front of 8000 schoolchildren, recorded earlier today, to be shown at 21.00 in Scotland, 21.40 in Eng/Wales and 23.15 in NI.

However, if there was really anything interesting coming out of it I would imagine it'd have been leaked by now.

Don't say you haven't been warned...

Iwasfrozen

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It doesn't matter whether they said "may" or "would". The typical voter will only hear "price rises".

Then the typical voter is an idiot. Something both sides are well aware of incidentally.

eeepaulo

The idea that it is simply scaremongering by westminster is nonsense im afraid.

Have a look at bloomberg, yahoo finance, digitallook.

What the market hates is uncertainty, there is absolutely nothing but rhetoric coming out of the SNP,

Alex salmon has not addressed RBS at all, simply called for an inquiry into the leak.

A Dub in Glasgo

eeepaulo wrote: »

The idea that it is simply scaremongering by westminster is nonsense im afraid.

Have a look at bloomberg, yahoo finance, digitallook.

What the market hates is uncertainty, there is absolutely nothing but rhetoric coming out of the SNP,

Alex salmon has not addressed RBS at all, simply called for an inquiry into the leak.

I am sorry if I missed this but what has to be addressed about RBS?

eeepaulo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I am sorry if I missed this but what has to be addressed about RBS?

RBS came out and said we will have to relocate to the uk, lloyds the same, weir group have said the uncertainty means they can not commit to Scotland (although apparently they dont really get earn much there)

It just feels like opposition politics by alex, here is a big company in the ftse saying we can not stay here, the response is 'find the leak'

I just feel the scottish do have a chance to do something awesome and they will have a chance to negotiate after the referendum but I would be worried at the lack of even an overall strategy if i lived there.

We will keep a currency that is not controlled by us while we set up a socialist utopia where we lower taxes, up benefits, have a better nhs.

I hope the oil flows.

BonnieSituation

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Then the typical voter is an idiot. Something both sides are well aware of incidentally.

The typical voter is an idiot.

A Dub in Glasgo

eeepaulo wrote: »

RBS came out and said we will have to relocate to the uk, lloyds the same,

No, they have not said that - what you said is the classic scare tactic that is reported in the media

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHmLb-RIbrM

http://www.rbs.com/news/2014/09/statement-in-response-to-press-speculation-on-re-domicile.html

Now, when you watch the video above, look at the BBC news and see how they edit it - that will tell you their spin

eeepaulo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

No, they have not said that - what you said is the classic scare tactic that is reported in the media

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHmLb-RIbrM

http://www.rbs.com/news/2014/09/statement-in-response-to-press-speculation-on-re-domicile.html

I did actually post this earlier today


The Royal Bank of Scotland Group plc
11 September 2014

SCOTTISH REFERENDUM

In response to press speculation in relation to re-domicile, The Royal Bank of Scotland Group plc ("RBS") confirms that, as set out in the risk disclosures in RBS's Annual Report, there are a number of material uncertainties arising from the Scottish referendum vote which could have a bearing on the Bank's credit ratings, and the fiscal, monetary, legal and regulatory landscape to which it is subject. For this reason, RBS has undertaken contingency planning for the possible business implications of a 'Yes' vote. RBS believes that this is the responsible and prudent thing to do and something that its customers, staff and shareholders would expect it to do.

As part of such contingency planning, RBS believes that it would be necessary to re-domicile the Bank's holding company and its primary rated operating entity (The Royal Bank of Scotland plc) to England. In the event of a 'Yes' vote, the decision to re-domicile should have no impact on everyday banking services used by our customers throughout the British Isles. However, RBS believes that it would be the most effective way to provide clarity to all our stakeholders and mitigate the risks previously identified in our Annual Report.

The vote on independence is a matter for the Scottish people. Scotland has been RBS's home since 1727. RBS intends to retain a significant level of its operations and employment in Scotland to support its customers there and the activities of the whole Bank.


For further information contact:-
Group Media Relations - +44(0)131 523 4205
Investor Relations - +44 (0) 20 7672 1758


It does say that the staff will be retained, but in order to be covered by the bank of england RBS are moving. I wonder though how happy english and welsh people will be to give all the jobs of the company to scotland, i could imagine there being pressure from the customers to relocate the jobs to the ruk if there is a yes vote.

eeepaulo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Now, when you watch the video above, look at the BBC news and see how they edit it - that will tell you their spin

Nick of the BBC is a toadie, in my post above i was not suggesting people look at the bbc.

Have a look at bloomberg, yahoo finance, digitallook, these are the sorts of people that an independent scotland needs to attract / impress to create a viable economy

namloc1980

eeepaulo wrote: »

RBS came out and said we will have to relocate to the uk, lloyds the same, weir group have said the uncertainty means they can not commit to Scotland (although apparently they dont really get earn much there)

It just feels like opposition politics by alex, here is a big company in the ftse saying we can not stay here, the response is 'find the leak'

I just feel the scottish do have a chance to do something awesome and they will have a chance to negotiate after the referendum but I would be worried at the lack of even an overall strategy if i lived there.

We will keep a currency that is not controlled by us while we set up a socialist utopia where we lower taxes, up benefits, have a better nhs.

I hope the oil flows.

Lloyds are based in London.

Donkey Oaty

The Telegraph has the funniest article about the campaign so far, IMO.

A Dub in Glasgo

eeepaulo wrote: »

I did actually post this earlier today

If you posted that earlier why the 'RBS came out and said we will have to relocate to the uk, lloyds the same' & 'Alex salmon has not addressed RBS at all' ,statement?

Banjoxed

eeepaulo wrote: »

Nick of the BBC is a toadie, in my post above i was not suggesting people look at the bbc.

Have a look at bloomberg, yahoo finance, digitallook, these are the sorts of people that an independent scotland needs to attract / impress to create a viable economy

There was clearly a claque at that PR event.

eeepaulo

namloc1980 wrote: »

Lloyds are based in London.

They own bank of scotland.

Donkey Oaty

eeepaulo wrote: »

They own bank of scotland.

They don't own Royal Bank of Scotland - it's 81% owned by Her Majesty's Government.

eeepaulo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

If you posted that earlier why the 'RBS came out and said we will have to relocate to the uk, lloyds the same' & 'Alex salmon has not addressed RBS at all' ,statement?

I meant the actual statement from rbs,

He has not and did not address it, a huge company, massive turnover, large number of staff has said they are unhappy with the lack of clarity, his response was we can still tax them

namloc1980

eeepaulo wrote: »

They own bank of scotland.

Yes they own BoS not RBS. You've got your banks mixed up!

eeepaulo

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

They don't own Royal Bank of Scotland - it's 81% owned by Her Majesty's Government.

Different company bank of scotland,

namloc1980

eeepaulo wrote: »

I meant the actual statement from rbs,

He has not and did not address it, a huge company, massive turnover, large number of staff has said they are unhappy with the lack of clarity, his response was we can still tax them

The CEO of the bank himself said they would retain operations and staff. What more do you want?

eeepaulo

namloc1980 wrote: »

Yes they own BoS not RBS. You've got your banks mixed up!

Bank of Scotland has been a subsidiary of Lloyds Banking Group since 19 January 2009, when HBOS was acquired by Lloyds TSB.

Go back and read, i said RBS and Lloyds

eire4

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It would be a bit sad if Scots voted to stay in the UK against the backdrop of all the threats, mostly economic, from England. What kind of a union is that? The banks and other corporations are working hand in glove with the British government to frighten the electorate.

It is shall we say interesting timing for sure. Given that the vote is now so close.

namloc1980

eeepaulo wrote: »

Bank of Scotland has been a subsidiary of Lloyds Banking Group since 19 January 2009, when HBOS was acquired by Lloyds TSB.

Go back and read, i said RBS and Lloyds

Lloyds group are based in London already. Are you suggesting they'll pull operations from Scotland

eeepaulo

namloc1980 wrote: »

The CEO of the bank himself said they would retain operations and staff. What more do you want?

Its not what i want that is important, in the first instance it is what the companies what, some kind of clarity as to what is happening,

In the second instance if the companies choose to move it then becomes what do the majority of customers want

A Dub in Glasgo

eeepaulo wrote: »

I meant the actual statement from rbs,

He has not and did not address it, a huge company, massive turnover, large number of staff has said they are unhappy with the lack of clarity, his response was we can still tax them

I am not sure what you are expecting. RBS stated in the statement that operations and jobs are not affected. Salmond goes into all this in the video clip

eeepaulo

namloc1980 wrote: »

Lloyds group are based in London already. Are you suggesting they'll pull operations from Scotland

Bank of scotland are owned by lloyds,

Bank of scotland are based in scotland,

A Dub in Glasgo

eeepaulo wrote: »

Bank of scotland are owned by lloyds,

Bank of scotland are based in scotland,

Fcuk me, are you saying that BoS are going to close their banking operation in Scotland should the will of the people be Yes?

eeepaulo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Fcuk me, are you saying that BoS are going to close their banking operation in Scotland should the will of the people be Yes?

It will move to the uk,

A Dub in Glasgo

eeepaulo wrote: »

It will move to the uk,

Jesus you do believe it - see scare tactic at work

eire4

I think these companies particuarly banks saying they will move to England if there is a yes vote is very fishy timing. They should also watch their own back in Scotland though. One way or another this vote looks like it will be very close. So that means if the yes vote loses they may open themselves up to boycott's from a good chunk of the population by making these threatening statements.

eeepaulo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Jesus you do believe it - see scare tactic at work

Lloyds have released a statement saying it.

My issue though with alex salmond in that video though is that in the statement he says the jobs will remain and we can tax them so thats fine,

Its not fine, scotland has to be a country that attracts companies, not that drives away the headquarters.