Scottish Independence discussion area

A Dub in Glasgo

^^^
Correct, these extra powers do not even equate to 'Devo Max' and have zero standing

Hague: giving Scotland more powers if it votes No is not Government policy

'Moronic' David Cameron should have offered 'Devo max' question in referendum, says Nigel Farage

UK To Get VETO On Gordon Brown’s Devo Proposals

Donkey Oaty

eire4 wrote: »

The devomax option is not on the ballot. It is a straight up yes or no on full independance on tha ballot. That is what London pushed for it to be.

Yes, but since that decision they have changed their minds and are telling the people of Scotland that it is now the only non-independence option.

It's almost as if they are making this stuff up as they go along.

Fratton Fred

gladrags wrote: »

I'm not sure to be honest.

The article implies that there is a lot at stake for the land owners if independence occurs.

I suppose when you think about it,the consequences of a possible yes vote are only now surfacing.

He is a Scottish Lord that was given his land and title 100years before the union came about. Presuming Scotland does not turn in to some mad communist regime, I don't see what he has to lose or gain either way.

A Dub in Glasgo

dubscottie wrote: »

Give us a source for your "facts" please of I am calling bollox talk!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Scotland
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2011/03/16182005/21
http://www.environment.scotland.gov.uk/get-informed/water/
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/133434/0061924.pdf
http://www.bgs.ac.uk/mineralsuk/mines/coal/occ/home.html
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/Woodproduction1976-2013prov.pdf/$FILE/Woodproduction1976-2013prov.pdf
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/newsrele.nsf/04cecdf37862621480256a0f00513443/7c3602a5e6059a6480257c890060da7d!OpenDocument
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/266471/electricity_generation_and_supply.pdf
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140507202222/http://www.marinemanagement.org.uk/fisheries/statistics/documents/ukseafish/2011/final.pdf
http://www.nfus.org.uk/farming-facts/what-we-produce
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2013/06/5219/5

sinead88

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Hmmm, apparently UKIP & Nigel Farage will be campaigning at 8pm in Glasgow City Centre on a Friday night - provocative to say the least

Apparently there's an Orange Order March protesting against the potential break up of the Union here in Edinburgh tomorrow. Won't be pleasant at all.

A Dub in Glasgo

The Orange march is tomorrow in Edinburgh

Incidentally, it is illegal to march for a political cause in uniform. What will be done? nothing

http://sluggerotoole.com/2014/08/13/edinburgh-orange-order-pro-union-parade-illegal/

Colinf1212

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I'm fascinated so many Irish are taking an active interest in this, I know some posters are living in Scotland right now are obviously are affected but I'm still surprised a lot of Irish people living here are interested nonetheless.

Irish posters are getting a bit heat though from posters on British forums particularly on DigitalSpy, for taking an active interest, "I've noticed a few Irish folk on here lately and the majority aren't or don't seem to be interested in much other than sticking it to the UK. Surely after 80 years you can stop hating the Brits?"

"Can the Irish just please fvck off? Nothing good has ever came from you? Look at Liverpool."

Lol just be careful, I know its ok to take an active interest in Scottish independence but any of you's posting on UK forums need to know you're beginning to upset some of them on there.

Those Brits have done a fine job up here in the North too.

Look at Boston/New York compared to whatever Americanized rundown cesspit in Britain they come from. Upset them as much as you can. It's 2014, the British have little say in anything. Go to any American board the Brits get made fun of all of the time.

Also Irish people are taking the least interest in this discussion out of all of the other areas in the the isles https://twitter.com/BBCScotlandNews/status/504016215900454912/photo/1 as this shows.

Colinf1212

Henry Sidney wrote: »

I would love to see Scotland vote yes, then ideally Wales and NI will follow and we will have got rid of all the junk little holes that we don't need.

Sounds like a good idea when you're probably the most disliked/isolated nation in the EU and your ties with America are continuing to get weaker (if they still even exist).

Surprised you're an atheist in England btw. Religion is expanding there at crazy rates.

Frank Bullitt

Whats the current opinion polls at now?

Colinf1212

feargale wrote: »

Some of the finest people I have encountered are English, and some of the most uncouth.

Meh what do you mean by English? Nationality? If you mean ethnically, those barbarians are going extinct soon anyway, it's interracial capital of the world, their own women don't want them. How embarrassing.

Iwasfrozen

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The Orange march is tomorrow in Edinburgh

Incidentally, it is illegal to march for a political cause in uniform. What will be done? nothing

http://sluggerotoole.com/2014/08/13/edinburgh-orange-order-pro-union-parade-illegal/

Pretty sure uniform in this case means military uniform.

Unless you plan to call the swat team in for the next nurse's strike.

Piliger

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I'm fascinated so many Irish are taking an active interest in this, I know some posters are living in Scotland right now are obviously are affected but I'm still surprised a lot of Irish people living here are interested nonetheless.

Irish posters are getting a bit heat though from posters on British forums particularly on DigitalSpy, for taking an active interest, "I've noticed a few Irish folk on here lately and the majority aren't or don't seem to be interested in much other than sticking it to the UK. Surely after 80 years you can stop hating the Brits?"

"Can the Irish just please fvck off? Nothing good has ever came from you? Look at Liverpool."

Lol just be careful, I know its ok to take an active interest in Scottish independence but any of you's posting on UK forums need to know you're beginning to upset some of them on there.

You are very mistaken if you think that there are many Irish to want to stick i t to the British.
Irish people are interested because we want people to be free and to be able to run their own affairs. We see Scottish people are very different to English people and they shouldn't be ruled from Westminster.
We separated ourselves and had to go through a far more bloody and nasty process to gain our freedom and we don't want that for Scotland.
Bring told to fcuk off by the British is also not something we are unaccustomed to and it doesn't cut it with us. We are on the island next to Scotland and are perfectly entitled to a voice.

Piliger

Gintonious wrote: »

Whats the current opinion polls at now?

Imho the polls are worthless. Minds will be made up on the day.

oppenheimer1

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Am I missing something? What's that got to do with a yes or no vote?

Land reform is an issue thats been on the back burner in Scotland for decades. Its completely absurd that those feudal families have been allowed to keep those lands.

BonnieSituation

Gintonious wrote: »

Whats the current opinion polls at now?

Yes 49 No 51 with the 17 don't knows excluded...

http://www.krank.ie/category/opinions/farage-ing-votes-scottish-independence-referendum/

Iwasfrozen

Colinf1212 wrote: »

Meh what do you mean by English? Nationality? If you mean ethnically, those barbarians are going extinct soon anyway, it's interracial capital of the world, their own women don't want them. How embarrassing.

Racist nonsense.

Iwasfrozen

Piliger wrote: »

You are very mistaken if you think that there are many Irish to want to stick i t to the British.
Irish people are interested because we want people to be free and to be able to run their own affairs. We see Scottish people are very different to English people and they shouldn't be ruled from Westminster.
We separated ourselves and had to go through a far more bloody and nasty process to gain our freedom and we don't want that for Scotland.
Bring told to fcuk off by the British is also not something we are unaccustomed to and it doesn't cut it with us. We are on the island next to Scotland and are perfectly entitled to a voice.

You sure do like to pretend you talk for the Irish people.

Long Gone

Piliger wrote: »

You are very mistaken if you think that there are many Irish to want to stick i t to the British.
Irish people are interested because we want people to be free and to be able to run their own affairs. We see Scottish people are very different to English people and they shouldn't be ruled from Westminster.
We separated ourselves and had to go through a far more bloody and nasty process to gain our freedom and we don't want that for Scotland.
Bring told to fcuk off by the British is also not something we are unaccustomed to and it doesn't cut it with us. We are on the island next to Scotland and are perfectly entitled to a voice.

It's really ironic that you're posting on a discussion thread re the vote on Scottish "independence" but you're demonstrating that you do not understand anything about the concept of independence. We are an island state independent of the UK and we do not get a voice in the decision of the Scottish voters. "To gain our freedom ?" - Don't make me laugh ! - When we've allowed the likes of Haughey, Aherne and Cowan to claim to lead us and destroy this country ? - Some "freedom". What a joke ! .:)

Scottie99

Long Gone wrote: »

It's really ironic that you're posting on a discussion thread re the vote on Scottish "independence" but you're demonstrating that you do not understand anything about the concept of independence. We are an island state independent of the UK and we do not get a voice in the decision of the Scottish voters. "To gain our freedom ?" - Don't make me laugh ! - When we've allowed the likes of Haughey, Aherne and Cowan to claim to lead us and destroy this country ? - Some "freedom". What a joke ! .:)

Yep, "you" voted for them. Many times the people of Scotland as whole don't get that luxury - hence the #indyref

A Dub in Glasgo

Long Gone wrote: »

We are an island state independent of the UK and

We have a land border with said UK therefore how can the bit in bold be right?

Fratton Fred

Colinf1212 wrote: »

Meh what do you mean by English? Nationality? If you mean ethnically, those barbarians are going extinct soon anyway, it's interracial capital of the world, their own women don't want them. How embarrassing.

The bigots were bound to turn up sooner or later.

Donkey Oaty

The chief economist of Deutsche Bank is getting a lot of coverage for his intervention.

Here's a summary (these are actual words used in his statement):

a political and economic mistake...years of depression and suffering... pain...Scotland becoming a slave (to interest rates)...incomprehensible.

It's fairly heavy-hitting stuff, and the No papers are loving it.

kingchess

out of interest is there any Newspaper in the whole of the UK backing the YES side???

A Dub in Glasgo

No, the only paper backing Yes is the Sunday Herald which is a Scottish weekly

Donkey Oaty

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

No, the only paper backing Yes is the Sunday Herald which is a Scottish weekly

This is correct - The Scottish Sun (biggest daily) is widely expected to come out for a Yes though, and there are a few that have tried to be neutral.

m1ck007

Sky news is so biased against the yes vote.

EunanMac

m1ck007 wrote: »

Sky news is so biased against the yes vote.

Will sky bother much about Scottish news and weather post independence ?
I don't think Scotland will miss them much.
They are about as objective as RT are.

Wurzelbert

First Up wrote: »

Without getting too technical about it, economic dis-aggregation is not a good idea in today's global economy. Small population = small market and less attractive to invest in; small tax base will limit government's ability to fund services and maintain infrastructure; capital flight over uncertainties of the future; cost of replicating all branches of government; reduced influence in global affairs; risk of "brain drain"; loss of control over fiscal policy - things like that. I also suspect a labour/SNP dominated political landscape would be unbalanced.

all valid arguments yet a purely technocratic and materialistic view of things…i just think there are higher values to consider here as well: nation, people, ancestry and all…the economy isn’t everything…and with over five million people – more than ireland (roi) and roughly comparable to norway or finland - and oil and tourism revenue and all, scotland should well be able to get itself organised as an economically viable state after, of course, a period of change and confusion…
so should the scots actually find the courage to vote for independence, i would be among the first to applaud…

fiachr_a

Wurzelbert wrote: »

so should the scots actually find the courage to vote for independence, i would be among the first to applaud…

You won't be applauding when they lower their corporation tax to 10%. You won't be applauding when they give us null points in the Eurovision. You won't be applauding when they beat us in the Euro football qualifier in November. You won't be applauding when the Yanks prefer them to us. You won't be applauding when they receive more EU funding then we get. You won't be applauding!

First Up

Wurzelbert wrote: »

all valid arguments yet a purely technocratic and materialistic view of things…i just think there are higher values to consider here as well: nation, people, ancestry and all…the economy isn’t everything…and with over five million people – more than ireland (roi) and roughly comparable to norway or finland - and oil and tourism revenue and all, scotland should well be able to get itself organised as an economically viable state after, of course, a period of change and confusion…
so should the scots actually find the courage to vote for independence, i would be among the first to applaud…

Of course the economy isn't everything but it tends to dominate most peoples thinking and that's why the no vote will win.

Peppa Pig

fiachr_a wrote: »

You won't be applauding when they lower their corporation tax to 10%.

Salmond had said he will drop the corporation tax rate to 17% or 18% for large profits. Why are you saying 10%?

Wurzelbert

First Up wrote: »

Of course the economy isn't everything but it tends to dominate most peoples thinking and that's why the no vote will win.

yes, i think so too, not expecting them to vote yes, just hoping...

BoJack Horseman

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Salmond had said he will drop the corporation tax rate to 17% or 18% for large profits. Why are you saying 10%?

10% is still no threat to Ireland where the effective rate is sound 0.2%

Wurzelbert

Fratton Fred wrote: »

[...]
Scotland approached England for a union though, there was no centuries of violence, other than the usual medieval violence neighbouring countries engaged in.

ok, let’s call it the usual medieval violence between neighbours…bloody enough by today’s (or any) standards…
i don’t think the (majority of) scots ever wanted a union with england…and i think a union backed by a small (anglo-)scottish elite in its own (mainly financial) interest - and i’d wager english military might and bribery played a role in their sellout as well - should not be made to look like the will of the scots…a few centuries of union cannot unmake centuries of scottish independence...

Wurzelbert

fiachr_a wrote: »

You won't be applauding when they lower their corporation tax to 10%.

some irish-scottish competition for multinational companies could be a good thing too…

fiachr_a wrote: »

You won't be applauding when they give us null points in the Eurovision.

who cares about the eurovision anyway..?!

fiachr_a wrote: »

You won't be applauding when they beat us in the Euro football qualifier in November.

i am german

fiachr_a wrote: »

You won't be applauding when the Yanks prefer them to us.

you think they will? does anyone really want or need to be loved by the yanks?

fiachr_a wrote: »

You won't be applauding when they receive more EU funding then we get.

we’d see about that…initially scotland wouldn’t even be a member of the eu

fiachr_a wrote: »

You won't be applauding!

let’s wait and see

fiachr_a

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Salmond had said he will drop the corporation tax rate to 17% or 18% for large profits. Why are you saying 10%?

Because that's the rate the unionists (DUP) want for Northern Ireland in 2017. An independent Scotland will need to lower theirs to that level to compete.

A Dub in Glasgo

fiachr_a wrote: »

You won't be applauding when they lower their corporation tax to 10%. You won't be applauding when they give us null points in the Eurovision. You won't be applauding when they beat us in the Euro football qualifier in November. You won't be applauding when the Yanks prefer them to us. You won't be applauding when they receive more EU funding then we get. You won't be applauding!

dearie me

Peppa Pig

fiachr_a wrote: »

Because that's the rate the unionists (DUP) want for Northern Ireland in 2017. An independent Scotland will need to lower theirs to that level to compete.

So why is Salmond saying 17% then?

A Dub in Glasgo

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

The chief economist of Deutsche Bank is getting a lot of coverage for his intervention.

Here's a summary (these are actual words used in his statement):



It's fairly heavy-hitting stuff, and the No papers are loving it.

http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/deutsches-wall-street-crash-prediction-ber-alles-airwaves/2347

Paul Mason wrote:

This summer Germany passed its first ever minimum wage law. As of July, German workers can’t earn less than 8.50 euros an hour.

The policy was brought in by the conservative government renowned across the world for its economic success. But one bank warned of doom.

If the minimum wage was passed, it said, the whole German labour market would unravel. Up to a million jobs would be lost. The “low wage segment” of the German labour market would be destroyed.

The bank was Deutsche Bank. Its warning was ignored.

Today Deutsche has warned that Scottish independence could trigger a Wall Street Crash-style depression.

They seem to love apoplectic predictions

Piliger

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

They seem to love apoplectic predictions

Even apocalyptic ones !

Piliger

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

10% is still no threat to Ireland where the effective rate is sound 0.2%

Only in your imagination.

I love how the Scots are willing not to be cowed by scare tactics of so called "sensible" institutions like the UK government and banks.

RBS and Lloyds would have gone bankrupt were it not for Government welfare in the crisis. They may threaten to leave but will be interesting to have their bluff called if Scotland do gain independence.

Even if they do leave Scotland will be able to create a favourable business environment (read, low corporate taxes) that would more than replace the few businesses that move south.

A Dub in Glasgo

Piliger wrote: »

Even apocalyptic ones !

That one as well:p

Piliger

Deleted User wrote: »

I love how the Scots are willing not to be cowed by scare tactics of so called "sensible" institutions like the UK government and banks.

RBS and Lloyds would have gone bankrupt were it not for Government welfare in the crisis. They may threaten to leave but will be interesting to have their bluff called if Scotland do gain independence.

Even if they do leave Scotland will be able to create a favourable business environment (read, low corporate taxes) that would more than replace the few businesses that move south.

That is the insanity of the thing. Their leaving won't effect the economy of jobs one jot. The claims of these big London CEOs are so transparently nonsense that one wonders what kind of incompetent people they are. They are essentially gambling the well being of their businesses based on personal political prejudice. NOT what they job is.

A Dub in Glasgo

Yes in Glasgow today

http://postimg.org/image/a5akpzbev/

No in Edinburgh today

http://postimg.org/image/6fqu4shsh/

Fratton Fred

Wurzelbert wrote: »

ok, let’s call it the usual medieval violence between neighbours…bloody enough by today’s (or any) standards…
i don’t think the (majority of) scots ever wanted a union with england…and i think a union backed by a small (anglo-)scottish elite in its own (mainly financial) interest - and i’d wager english military might and bribery played a role in their sellout as well - should not be made to look like the will of the scots…a few centuries of union cannot unmake centuries of scottish independence...

The Scots approached England for the union and were initially turned down, as they were twice previously.

As much as I'm sure you'd like it to be a case of the nasty English subjugating the poor Scots, the fact is, it simply wasn't.

First Up

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I love how the Scots are willing not to be cowed by scare tactics of so called "sensible" institutions like the UK government and banks.

RBS and Lloyds would have gone bankrupt were it not for Government welfare in the crisis. They may threaten to leave but will be interesting to have their bluff called if Scotland do gain independence.

Even if they do leave Scotland will be able to create a favourable business environment (read, low corporate taxes) that would more than replace the few businesses that move south.

You sure about that?

Donkey Oaty

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

They seem to love apoplectic predictions

They do, and Paul Mason's piece won't the publicity that it deserves. The problem for the Yes campaign now is that this is not where they want the focus to be, with them on the defensive.

The timing of all the news now is crucial, because if the polls are to be believed it only takes a tiny swing for it to go one way or another.

I'd say there's more doomsday stuff being held back until the last minute.

Donkey Oaty

Scots Nationalists have now been described as "a divisive and evil enemy" by senior Orangemen at the rally in Edinburgh, according to Herald Scotland.

Bear this in mind when after the referendum all the politicians congratulate everyone on the "high quality of the debate".

First Up

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

They do, and Paul Mason's piece won't the publicity that it deserves. The problem for the Yes campaign now is that this is not where they want the focus to be, with them on the defensive.

The timing of all the news now is crucial, because if the polls are to be believed it only takes a tiny swing for it to go one way or another.

I'd say there's more doomsday stuff being held back until the last minute.

It isn't even close. If people are not already sold on the yes argument (despite the solid reasons for "no") then nothing in the next few days is likely to persuade them. The don't knows will break at least 75/25 to "no".