Scottish Independence discussion area

Iwasfrozen · 13-09-2014 9:17pm

Wurzelbert wrote: »

more than enough of the east germans did…and thank god, odin or whoever for that…

Why be thankful for it?

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

makey uppy stuff

If you say so. NI is a kingdom though.

kingchess · 13-09-2014 9:18pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Wales isn't a kingdom. It's a principality.

Yes I know-it was incorporated in to the Kingdom of England in the 16th century if I remember my history lessons correctly-hence my post "poor Wales never gets any recognition"

smcgiff · 13-09-2014 9:24pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It is. Northern Ireland is included in the Queen's title.

It is, but it's not a kingdom in its own right.

There is no Kingdom of Northern Ireland.

Iwasfrozen · 13-09-2014 9:26pm

smcgiff wrote: »

It is, but it's not a kingdom in its own right.

There is no Kingdom of Northern Ireland.

No. Just like there is no Kingdom of Scotland or Kingdom of England in their own right, the UK is a union of three Kingdoms.

After this referendum is defeated I would like to see the UK federalise with a proper, defined constitution.

A Dub in Glasgo · 13-09-2014 9:30pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No. Just like there is no Kingdom of Scotland or Kingdom of England in their own right, the UK is a union of three Kingdoms.

Timeline

England Kingdom joined with the Scotland Kingdom to create the United Kingdom of Great Britain

Ireland Kingdom then joined the UK and it was renamed the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland

The majority of Ireland left the UK and the name was changed to UK of GB & NI - NI was not and is not a 'Kingdom'

Wurzelbert · 13-09-2014 9:32pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why be thankful for it?
[...]

erm, self-determination of nations and all…and, as willy brandt put it, "es wächst zusammen, was zusammen gehört" (that what belongs together is brought together)…

Iwasfrozen · 13-09-2014 9:33pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Timeline

England Kingdom joined with the Scotland Kingdom to create the United Kingdom of Great Britain

Ireland Kingdom then joined the UK and it was renamed the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland

The majority of Ireland left the UK and the name was changed to UK of GB & NI - NI was not and is not a 'Kingdom'

The majority of Ireland leaves the Kingdom of Ireland which leaves NI in the same constitutional position as the Kingdom of Ireland was. Meaning Northern Ireland is still a Kingdom just as it was before the South left.

smcgiff · 13-09-2014 9:34pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No. Just like there is no Kingdom of Scotland or Kingdom of England in their own right, the UK is a union of three Kingdoms.

It is not the union of three kingdoms (Northern Ireland was never a kingdom). It is part of the united Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

In fact, up until 1953 Queen Elizabeth stilled herself the Queen of Great Britain and Ireland.

Agreed, as it currently stands there is no Kingdom of England or Scotland. They were done away with by the 1707 act of union.

Iwasfrozen · 13-09-2014 9:34pm

Wurzelbert wrote: »

erm, self-determination of nations and all…and, as willy brandt put it, "es wächst zusammen, was zusammen gehört" (that what belongs together is brought together)…

No, you said thankfully the majority of people agreed with you that Germany should be united.

Why be thankful?

A Dub in Glasgo · 13-09-2014 9:34pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The majority of Ireland leaves the Kingdom of Ireland which leaves NI in the same constitutional position as the Kingdom of Ireland was. Meaning Northern Ireland is still a Kingdom just as it was before the South left.

As I said, makey uppy stuff

Iwasfrozen · 13-09-2014 9:37pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

As I said, makey uppy stuff

lol, when you can't win an arguement with logic claim your opponent is making stuff up.

kingchess · 13-09-2014 9:38pm

I never heard the most ardent Unionist from the North refer to Northern Ireland as a kingdom,

A Dub in Glasgo · 13-09-2014 9:39pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

lol, when you can't win an arguement with logic claim your opponent is making stuff up.

I can but sometimes you just have to face reality that the other person is actually making things up as they go along

Wurzelbert · 13-09-2014 9:40pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No, you said thankfully the majority of people agreed with you that Germany should be united.

Why be thankful?

what i said or at least meant is that a majority of east germans wanted the gdr to go and ultimately wanted re-unification, and i am and i think all germans should be thankful for that…healing the wounds of a nation and all…

First Up · 13-09-2014 9:47pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

http://postimg.org/image/x5wfn5gqv/

I said dreams. Wake up.

First Up · 13-09-2014 9:53pm

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Would you accept that many of the people who will be voting in the referendum do not see the above group of people as having their particular interests at heart?

Of course, but that doesn't mean doing something just to spite them is in their interests.

A Dub in Glasgo · 13-09-2014 10:48pm

Sunday Herald front page tomorrow

http://postimg.org/image/a2trwatst/

eeepaulo · 13-09-2014 11:16pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Sunday Herald front page tomorrow

http://postimg.org/image/a2trwatst/

They cant seriously be going with storm clouds and lightening in the background.

Maybe photoshop the queen in as a valkyrie

Iwasfrozen · 13-09-2014 11:24pm

eeepaulo wrote: »

They cant seriously be going with storm clouds and lightening in the background.

Maybe photoshop the queen in as a valkyrie

That's some quality journalism there. The yes campaign are lucky to have such a professional, honorable and reputable paper on their side.

Karl Stein · 13-09-2014 11:37pm

I see the Orange Order were over giving the 'Yes' campaign a boost. If Scotland does vote yes one of its first moves should be to ban marching of the cancer that is the Orange Order.

eeepaulo · 13-09-2014 11:44pm

Here is the press release from the snp

First Minister Alex Salmond has written again to the head of the UK civil service Sir Jeremy Heywood, calling for an inquiry into the leak of market sensitive information regarding Royal Bank of Scotland.
It comes after a letter from Sir Jeremy to the First Minister confirmed that information regarding RBS was passed to the media by the Treasury before an announcement to the markets – and apparently while a meeting of the bank’s board was still underway.
The First Minister said:
“We now have the most dramatic confirmation that information was released to the media by the Treasury during RBS’s board meeting, while it was considering contingency planning and market sensitive announcements.
“This is an extraordinary development and indicates the Treasury’s fingerprints all over banking sector announcements. It is now imperative that there should be an inquiry into the full circumstances of this release. Who approved it - was it an official or a minister?
“The bad news for the Treasury is that banks have confirmed that jobs, investment and taxation will be unaffected. The Westminster establishment have fired their big guns of intimidation at the people of Scotland, but they have gone off like spent fireworks.
“What now remains is the urgent need for an investigation into the Treasury's role into this deeply political and potentially illegal release of sensitive market info during the RBS board meeting.
“In my view RBS are blameless in this matter and have acted entirely properly, Indeed there is an argument that they have been subjected to the same pressure and abuse of political power which has been aimed at the people of Scotland.”

A Dub in Glasgo · 13-09-2014 11:48pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That's some quality journalism there. The yes campaign are lucky to have such a professional, honorable and reputable paper on their side.

The only paper on it's side, the rest are No

m1ck007 · 13-09-2014 11:50pm

I wonder if this will be covered in sky news tomorrow??

A Dub in Glasgo · 13-09-2014 11:52pm

m1ck007 wrote: »

I wonder if this will be covered in sky news tomorrow??

Doubt it

Iwasfrozen · 13-09-2014 11:53pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The only paper on it's side, the rest are No

A commercial rather than ideological decision no doubt, that paper is a rag. Typical redtop.

A Dub in Glasgo · 13-09-2014 11:55pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

A commercial rather than ideological decision no doubt, that paper is a rag. Typical redtop.

It is quite clear you have never read the Sunday Herald :pac: :pac:

A Dub in Glasgo · 13-09-2014 11:59pm

'No Popery' in Edinburgh today

http://www.channel4.com/news/orange-order-marches-through-edinburgh

BBC reports the march 'was "an enormous celebration and an awesome expression of our pride in our United Kingdom"'

Iwasfrozen · 13-09-2014 11:59pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

It is quite clear you have never read the Sunday Herald :pac: :pac:

I actually have but even if I hadn't it's pretty safe to say this sensationalist muck: http://postimg.org/image/a2trwatst/ would never appear on a broadsheet.

A Dub in Glasgo · 14-09-2014 12:01am

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I actually have but even if I hadn't it's pretty safe to say this sensationalist muck: http://postimg.org/image/a2trwatst/ would never appear on a broadsheet.

It is still quite clear you never read the paper :pac:

Iwasfrozen · 14-09-2014 12:05am

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

It is still quite clear you never read the paper :pac:

I actually have but even if I hadn't it's pretty safe to say this sensationalist muck: http://postimg.org/image/a2trwatst/ would never appear on a broadsheet.

A Dub in Glasgo · 14-09-2014 12:07am

There are none so blind as those who will not see

Maybe you see this as a broadsheet?

http://postimg.org/image/xak8v9u7d/

Iwasfrozen · 14-09-2014 12:16am

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

There are none so blind as those who will not see

Maybe you see this as a broadsheet?

http://postimg.org/image/xak8v9u7d/

It's a broadsheet, less hyperbole which is nice but it's obviously not neutral either which is a shame.

A Dub in Glasgo · 14-09-2014 12:18am

Less hyperbole? You are clearly on banned substances!

J_E · 14-09-2014 12:21am

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's a broadsheet, less hyperbole which is nice but it's obviously not neutral either which is a shame.

I would say it's fairly hyperbolic and sensational...not to mention trying to appeal to a British sense of pride in the cheapest way possible.

The_Kew_Tour · 14-09-2014 12:22am

Largest congregation of OO buckos today.

They really do fear Independence.

Don't think they will have to worry but glad they are sweating.

Iwasfrozen · 14-09-2014 12:25am

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Less hyperbole? You are clearly on banned substances!

Yes clearly I'm the one on substances. Because this http://s14.postimg.org/41w2z876p/Capturedfger.jpg isn't hyperbole.

I'm just glad the Scottish people aren't falling for this rubbish.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 14-09-2014 12:28am

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's a broadsheet, less hyperbole which is nice but it's obviously not neutral either which is a shame.

Less hyperbole.Are you serious?

In my opinion its despicable for any newspaper to use the deaths of soldiers as a way of promoting an agenda.I have a feeling that very few if any join the British army in order to preserve the union seeing as it isn't under threat from any armed force.

Considering how desperately the English seem to want to keep Scotland as part of the UK if I were Scottish I'd be even more convinced that independence was the best option as I'd take it as a clear sign they are contributing more to the UK than they're getting out of it if the English politicians and media want to keep them in in it so desperately.

Dozen Wicked Words · 14-09-2014 12:35am

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Less hyperbole.Are you serious?

In my opinion its despicable for any newspaper to use the deaths of soldiers as a way of promoting an agenda.I have a feeling that very few if any join the British army in order to preserve the union seeing as it isn't under threat from any armed force.

Considering how desperately the English seem to want to keep Scotland as part of the UK if I were Scottish I'd be even more convinced that independence was the best option as I'd take it as a clear sign they are contributing more to the UK than they're getting out of it if the English politicians and media want to keep them in in it so desperately.

I'm amazed at the survey in the Herald that says 70 percent of rest of UK wants Scotland to vote no. I don't know anyone who has a strong opinion either way. England football fans certainly don't want them to stay!

(swearing)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKuNXIgAxBw

A Dub in Glasgo · 14-09-2014 12:38am

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes clearly I'm the one on substances. Because this http://s14.postimg.org/41w2z876p/Capturedfger.jpg isn't hyperbole.
.

Same, more or less? You claim more then say same or less?

14-09-2014 10:00am

Just checked Betfair:

Yes - 10/3
No - 1/5

Surprising the bookies seem convinced it will be No.

everdead.ie · 14-09-2014 10:46am

I'm pretty sure it will be a no victory. The fear factor is just so high from the no side and from Westminster I can't see a lot of people getting past that.

pablomakaveli · 14-09-2014 10:47am

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

I'm amazed at the survey in the Herald that says 70 percent of rest of UK wants Scotland to vote no. I don't know anyone who has a strong opinion either way. England football fans certainly don't want them to stay!

(swearing)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKuNXIgAxBw

That is an interesting result. The vibe i get down here is mainly one of indifference. I honestly don't think the average Englishman/woman will be that bothered whatever the outcome.

Richard · 14-09-2014 11:22am

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

UK member state - correct
rUk member state - speculation
Scotland member state - speculation

This speculation could have been clarified by the UK Government but they refused a request to ask for that clarification

It isn't open to question. If Cork left Ireland, would Ireland stop being a member of international bodies? Of course not. Would Cork? Yes.

Now of course there may well be changes due to the drop in population such as fewer MEPs. (Scotland would get more MEPs than currently wjen it rejoins the EU).

Richard · 14-09-2014 11:26am

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

'No Popery' in Edinburgh today

http://www.channel4.com/news/orange-order-marches-through-edinburgh

BBC reports the march 'was "an enormous celebration and an awesome expression of our pride in our United Kingdom"'

There will not be one person who switches from Yes to No after this march. But possibly a few who will go the other way...

Frank Lee Midere · 14-09-2014 1:16pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes clearly I'm the one on substances. Because this http://s14.postimg.org/41w2z876p/Capturedfger.jpg isn't hyperbole.

I'm just glad the Scottish people aren't falling for this rubbish.

What the hyperbole? The picture? Because the story tells the actual real facts - which are the best kind of facts. The treasury did leak the RBS statement, a statement which is in itself political.

Frank Lee Midere · 14-09-2014 1:18pm

It shows how tin eared the Southern Esablishment is though. Remember that bank which almost brought down the UK economy and had to be bailed out to the cost of 46B? It might leave so the rUK will deal with the next bailout. Suck on that Scotties.

My name is URL · 14-09-2014 1:30pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av512z9ySow

lol... an independent Scotland would literally be as bad as Hitler according to the BBC

snubbleste · 14-09-2014 2:02pm

Ben Dunne's slogan has been stolen! John Reid says it was a slip of the tongue in saying 'don't vote if you don't know' . He says 'vote no if you don't know' #indyref

A Dub in Glasgo · 14-09-2014 2:12pm

This is now becoming part of the message for the No side, if you don't know, you are better off voting No

Lenin Skynard · 14-09-2014 2:18pm

Anyone heard any estimations on when they'll have the result? Friday morning? Saturday morning? I'd hate to miss it live.

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