Scottish Independence discussion area

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Are you claiming something out of a position of knowledge or wish?

I have no knowledge, but I can tell you now rUK will act in its own interest and nobody else's.

Of course in most cases they will want friendly terms with Scotland and want to be grown-up about it but there won't be any favours (nor will there be favours the other way, the Scots will be pretty hardline on the oil and who can blame them?)

I think it could end up uglier than people think, which for the record I think would be a great tragedy.

First Up

Happyman42 wrote: »

I suspect that they will do what we did, become a trading partner with England. A partnership that didn't suffer through the conflict because it was in every body's interests.
England won't be huffing and breaking trading links, don't be silly.

Trade is 99% a private sector business. It is not a matter of "England breaking trading links" but of English companies finding it less convenient or attractive to do business with Scottish companies if they are operating under different business regimes and especially if using different currencies.

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The biggest electoral change will be the introduction of PR in Scotland (as it is used in the Scottish Parliament elections). The FPTP system is a discredited system

The PR system was rejected in a referendum in the UK a few years ago, so the voters preferred the FPTP system.

Fratton Fred

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The biggest electoral change will be the introduction of PR in Scotland (as it is used in the Scottish Parliament elections). The FPTP system is a discredited system

Maybe they should hold a referendum on PR, as the 60% of Scots who voted against it three years ago obviously got it wrong.

A Dub in Glasgo

PR is here to stay in Scotland therefore if Scotland gets independence it will use the PR system. The rUK can decide to use the discredited FPTP system

Fratton Fred

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Do you work for the No side as you are deliberately misrepresenting things?

Just bring facetious, that's all. But also trying to highlight to those that think England do rule Scotland that it isn't as black and white as they may think.

Any idea how many Scottish MPs there are in England?

Fratton Fred

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

PR is here to stay in Scotland therefore if Scotland gets independence it will use the PR system. The rUK can decide to use the discredited FPTP system

Says who?

"rUK" ?????
UK - Scotland = Britain & NI

A Dub in Glasgo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Says who?

The Scottish political parties and the Scottish Government

A Dub in Glasgo

Deleted User wrote: »

"rUK" ?????
UK - Scotland = Britain & NI

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/27/scotland-votes-yes-rest-uk-ruk-independent

Fratton Fred

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The Scottish political parties and the Scottish Government

Post independence?

The political scene in Scotland will be interesting if the yes vote goes through. I wonder will the SNP still be as popular.

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/27/scotland-votes-yes-rest-uk-ruk-independent

Stupid article! Britain & NI would be much better and could to be quite short lived if NI goes on its own way (or is "eased out").
Without Scottish Unionist backing it would be much easier for Britain (England & Wales) to "let go" of NI.

A Dub in Glasgo

Britain is the island and will still contain Scotland so not sure how that would be better. The most apt name is simply England!

First Up

Piliger wrote: »

Not worth much as a comparison considering where we started. The wider point is that we were better off after than before. A lot more so.

The British like to conveniently overlook the fact that decisions in Westminster have been taken for hundreds of years that benefited England, and not Scotland.

From the get go Scotland will be able to incentivise business, manufacturing, exports and lower corporate tax as Ireland does. They can manage their own affairs to benefit themselves and not England.

Scotland - through Scottish Enterprise and Business Scotland - already offers a wide range of incentives and supports to business. Scottish companies benefit from the services of UK Trade and Investment, British Embassies abroad and the full resources of British commercial diplomacy (which will have to be set up from scratch if independence is carried.) The only new mechanism over which an independent Scotland would have control is tax rates and that would have to form part of a much wider fiscal strategy.

A Dub in Glasgo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Post independence?

Yes, all the parties in Scotland have accepted PR. It is in the Scottish Government white paper as well

http://postimg.org/image/50lej0qqf/

Richard Hillman

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

To be fair, they have been going after the idiot vote for a while now

The Yes campaign have the support of the 16-18 year olds and the poor. The easiest led groups. They have the idiot vote well covered.

A Dub in Glasgo

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The Yes campaign have the support of the 16-18 year olds and the poor. The easiest led groups. They have the idiot vote well covered.

Have you got any evidence that the 16-18 yo group are voting Yes and throw some evidence of the poor as well

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Britain is the island and will still contain Scotland so not sure how that would be better. The most apt name is simply England!

You forgot about Wales.
Britain is England & Wales,
Great Britain is Britain & Scotland,
UK is Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

So you remove Scotland you're left with -
Britain & NI

A Dub in Glasgo

Deleted User wrote: »

You forgot about Wales.
Britain is England & Wales,
Great Britain is Britain & Scotland,
UK is Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

So you remove Scotland you're left with -
Britain & NI

I may have forgotten Wales but the rest of your post is :eek:

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I may have forgotten Wales but the rest of your post is :eek:

Scottish independence, would be a real game changer for NI.

Iwasfrozen

Deleted User wrote: »

You forgot about Wales.
Britain is England & Wales,
Great Britain is Britain & Scotland,
UK is Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

So you remove Scotland you're left with -
Britain & NI

Great Britain is England, Scotland and Wales.

Great Britain is called Great Britain to distinguish it from Lesser Britain which is another name for Brittany.

Great Britain is also referred to as Britain in everyday speech.

rUK means rump of the UK and is the term created to avoid confusion when talking about the UK post Scottish independence (yes it will still be called the UK).

BonnieSituation

Deleted User wrote: »

You forgot about Wales.
Britain is England & Wales,
Great Britain is Britain & Scotland,
UK is Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

So you remove Scotland you're left with -
Britain & NI

Britain is England, Scotland and Wales.
Great Britain is England, Scotland and Wales.

It is referred to as "great" to refer to its size relative to "little" Britain aka Brittany/Bretagne.

Remove Scotland from the UKoGBaNI you are left with the (United) Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland.

Prior to 1801 it was Kingdom of Great Britain. It was the Kingdom of Ireland's union with the Kingdom of GB that created the UK so Scotland's secession could still leave a "United Kingdom" as Northern Ireland would remain.

Phew.

Its Only Ray Parlour

Most Welsh people I've met or heard have English accents, so we might as well call it England and Northern Ireland.

Iwasfrozen

It's like this, Britain is Tamriel

England is Cyrodiil

London is the Imperial City

Scotland is Skyrim and most people don't know whether they want to be Stormcloaks or Imperials.

Which I guess makes Alex Salmond Ulfric Stormcloak

Fratton Fred

Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »

Most Welsh people I've met or heard have English accents, so we might as well call it England and Northern Ireland.

Seriously?

You can't have met many then.

Dyr

Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »

Most Welsh people I've met or heard have English accents, so we might as well call it England and Northern Ireland.

Many years ago, I got in trouble in cardiff with a taxi driver for that as soon as I got off the plane, he was laying into the english and him with a big english accent (to me) on him

"ehh.. are you not english yourself?"

He was'nt

35cent

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's like this, Britain is Tamriel

England is Cyrodiil

London is the Imperial City

Scotland is Skyrim and most people don't know whether they want to be Stormcloaks or Imperials.

Which I guess makes Alex Salmond Ulfric Stormcloak

NERD!!!! :P

efb

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's like this, Britain is Tamriel

England is Cyrodiil

London is the Imperial City

Scotland is Skyrim and most people don't know whether they want to be Stormcloaks or Imperials.

Which I guess makes Alex Salmond Ulfric Stormcloak

???? GoT???

Kermit.de.frog

Bob Geldof has had his say

Musician Sir Bob Geldof and comedian Eddie Izzard joined those in favour of the union.
Snow, whose referendum campaign Let's Stay Together has drawn endorsements from dozens of high profile figures, said the rally was to show Scotland "that England cares".

"There is such a thing as a big glorious 'No,'" Sir Bob told the rally. "It's a family and we love each other."

Do us a favor Bob and stay over there.

35cent

efb wrote: »

???? GoT???

Elder Scrolls. It's a video game series

monkeysnapper

Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »

Most Welsh people I've met or heard have English accents, so we might as well call it England and Northern Ireland.

You haven't met many welsh people , what a load of drivel !!

efb

35cent wrote: »

Elder Scrolls. It's a video game series

Oh right Ted.

Frank Lee Midere

Welsh people speak with English accents? Never heard that. Maybe some posh ones. In fact it's remarkable how much the culture, accents and look changes between say Bath/Bristol and Cardiff. Could be thousands of miles apart.

The_Kew_Tour

I went to college in Wales for a year and plenty of Welsh spoke in English accent.

It was kinda weird I will admit.

La_Gordy

Anyone see Bob Geldof wading in to support the No vote, giving a speech from.... London...?

What a powerful understanding of the issues at hand.

Smiles35

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Bob Geldof has had his say

What's he trying to do? Get the Royals out of bed to take the mike away?

Kermit.de.frog

La_Gordy wrote: »

Anyone see Bob Geldof wading in to support the No vote, giving a speech from.... London...?

What a powerful understanding of the issues at hand.

Here are the quotes. Some gems in here.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/15/bob-geldof-scottish-voters-not-break-up-family

A Dub in Glasgo

Geldolf, Izzard & Snow = Shower of patronising fcuks

La_Gordy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Here are the quotes. Some gems in here.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/15/bob-geldof-scottish-voters-not-break-up-family

Omg those quotes are mortifying - "I'd just like to tell everybody in Scotland we're all ****ing fed up with Westminster and it's even more frustrating for us because we don't even get to do the argument that you've begun," he said. "This argument needs to be had among us all, you can't selfishly resolve it amongst yourselves by taking an easy opt-out clause.

gladrags

Bob Geldof !

The no crowd will try anything

Before you know it we'll have the Loch Ness monster joining the debate.

Wurzelbert

La_Gordy wrote: »

Anyone see Bob Geldof wading in to support the No vote, giving a speech from.... London...?

What a powerful understanding of the issues at hand.

Bob Geldof? pathetic

A Dub in Glasgo

Tom Devine being interviewed on Sky talks about Cameron's speech today

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwcyo0vmN49CVElYQ0RUUlctcjg/edit?pli=1

Amirani

Cringe-worthy from Geldof.

Da Shins Kelly

It is quite cringey seeing all these celebrities sticking their noses in and trying to influence things.

ninebeanrows

I think we know what way Bob Geldof would vote if asked whether Ireland rejoin the UK.

Pathetic performance.

Nodin

Noblong wrote: »

What's he trying to do? Get the Royals out of bed to take the mike away?

He was trying to do the impossible and in fact did so - he sank lower in my estimation.

Nodin

gladrags wrote: »

Bob Geldof !

The no crowd will try anything

Before you know it we'll have the Loch Ness monster joining the debate.

Doubtless they'll have a leading scientist declare that should they vote yes it will leave the lake and roam the countryside, eating all humans and family pets it comes across.

And that's before the heather goes Triffid.

Frank Lee Midere

I thought Sir Bob did ok. In general that kind of thing is going to work better than the spurious Scotland can't make it on its own rhetoric.

Happyman42

First Up wrote: »

Trade is 99% a private sector business. It is not a matter of "England breaking trading links" but of English companies finding it less convenient or attractive to do business with Scottish companies if they are operating under different business regimes and especially if using different currencies.

More silly scaremongering, 50% or more of the raw materials I use are imported from UK businesses. It is not inconvenient in any way, or unattractive and they are glad of the business as long as I pay.

Sir Gallagher

"Scotland is a feeling. England is a feeling. Wales is a feeling, Ireland a feeling. But the United Kingdom is one of the greatest ideas for the modern age."

-Bob Geldof

Astonishing really, I think Bob is suffering from a case of Stockholm syndrome.