Scottish Independence discussion area

Piliger

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Yeah, I really don't know how the 'yes' vote could really be seen as the negative ones. All I've heard is scare mongering from the 'no' side.

If YES win it ... there is going to be a monumental amount of grovelling from a lot of business CEO's and supposed financial experts.

Piliger

From the BBC:
An Ipsos-MORI survey for broadcaster STV which was published on Wednesday afternoon put support for "Yes" on 49% against 51% for "No" when undecided voters were excluded.

A Panelbase poll released earlier on Wednesday, which was not carried out for any media outlet, suggested support for independence was on 48%, with 52% support for Scotland staying in the UK, once undecided voters were excluded.

Both polls have an effective error of 4-6%. So it's effectively a tie at this stage.

A Dub in Glasgo

If Yes wins it, I am booking a taxi for Michelle Mone :pac:

Da Shins Kelly

Satriale wrote: »

Despite the recent economy Ireland is a pretty safe, nice country to live in, how do you know it wont turn out even better for the Independent Scots? They will hardly have a post independence civil war to deal with, and have more resources now than we ever had.

Change is nothing to be feared.

Exactly. Ireland gained independence through revolt and suffered upheaval and great division as a result. Scotland is doing things democratically, talking things through which makes a bloody rebellion or civil war highly unlikely. They wouldn't suffer the fallout we did. And bearing in mind, we suffered with conflict after independence and still moved on and prospered.

Its Only Ray Parlour

A list of countries who sought to re-join the UK after 142 gained independence:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Satriale

Whatever happens today, whether it's a yes or no for an Independent Scotland, there's a Wind of Change a blowin' for the UK.
Mark the day well!!

bilston

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Yeah, I really don't know how the 'yes' vote could really be seen as the negative ones. All I've heard is scare mongering from the 'no' side.

Scaremongering seems to be the word of the week in Scotland amongst the 'Yes' campaign. Easy to say maybe a bit harder to prove. Of course we'll only know if Scotland votes yes and things are put to the test.

Interesting times.

kingchess

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Don't know, because I don't know how we would have turned out if we'd stayed. I'd like to see greater integration among the four nations of the British Isles though, maybe a loose confederation.

which four nations??the four nations of the UK??

Kermit.de.frog

This is Scotland's time to join the independent nations of the world as an equal and to be represented on it's own.

I hope they don't throw this historic opportunity away. I would be disappointed if they voted no because I would see it rightly or wrongly as capitulation to those in Westminster and the City of London who have sought to frighten and scare people.

Don't give them the satisfaction.

A Dub in Glasgo

bilston wrote: »

Scaremongering seems to be the word of the week in Scotland amongst the 'Yes' campaign. Easy to say maybe a bit harder to prove.

It has been going on for a lot longer than that

“Scotland heading for a ‘Great Depression’ after a Yes vote”

“Independence: Criminal gangs could exploit new border to evade arrest”

“Independent Scotland would struggle to monitor intelligence”

“Telecoms groups set to warn of price rises if Yes vote triumphs”

“Independence might literally kill the Queen”*

“Scots families face cost of living crisis if UK splits”

“Scotland would have to increase taxes by up to £18,000 per person”

“Independent Scotland faces doubling of BBC licence fee'”

“Independence Could Put Scotland In Danger Of Russian Invasion”

“Yes vote will be catastrophic for all”

“Savers’ money at risk if Scotland votes Yes”

“Scotland team may miss Rio Olympics in event of vote for independence”

“Independence: Business Leader Evokes Fears Of New Jacobite Wars”

“Scottish independence: £750m welfare bill claim”

“£780m school cuts after Yes vote”

“Scottish independence means new wave of painful austerity”

“Shopping bills will rise if Scots vote for independence”

“Yes vote would be a betrayal of fallen WW2 comrades“

“Independence would lead to decades of pain and aggravation”

“Every Scot £480 worse off under independence”

“Yes vote risks EU veto and Wonga style interest rates”

“Universities braced for brain drain if country votes for independence”

“Yes vote risks foreign aid”

“Yes vote is threat to freedom”

“Scots would lose access to BBC shows after independence”

“Independent Scotland’s viewers must pay extra for BBC”

“Alex Salmond’s currency Plan A would collapse within a year”

“Independent Scotland’s economy would crash if it tried to use sterling”

“Go-it-alone Scotland ‘defenceless’: Nation will be left without weapons”

“Mortgages up £1600 if Yes”

“Scottish yes vote could lead to currency limbo, say MPs”

“Postal costs in Scotland could rise after independence, say MPs”

“Scotland and the UK will separate geographically, as well as politically”

“Yes could be catalyst for sterling crisis”

“Yes will send shares crashing”

“Labour claim 1m may lose jobs after independence”

“Darling: Independence could cost Scotland £8bn”

“700,000 to Leave if Union is Broken”

“Yes vote would lead to economic crisis worse than the crash”

“UK split to set back cure for cancer”

“Gordon Brown raises organ-transplant fears ahead of referendum”

“Scotland’s tourism industry is threatened by independence”

“Split ‘may cost Scots £400m for welfare IT’

“Yes vote pension cost warning“

“Vulnerable people could lose benefits in an independent Scotland“

“Bank bailout doubt if Scots vote to quit UK“

“Independent Scotland Could Suffer Iceland-Style Financial Collapse“

“Consumers would snub separate Scotland’s brands“

“Scottish independence ‘would harm world’s poorest'”

“Go-alone Scotland faces threats from space”

“Scottish Independence Will Lead to Soaring Energy Bills”

“Scotland faces £143bn debt after independence”

“Fears for fishing in breakaway Scotland”

“Thousands of defence jobs will be at risk if Scotland votes Yes”

“Scottish independence will cause civil war in Africa”*

“Scottish independence would be cataclysmic for the world”

- THE WHOLE OF WESTERN CIVILISATION AND DEMOCRACY WILL FALL TO THE FORCES OF DARKNESS IN A GLOBE-SPANNING CATACLYSM

- WE’LL BE BARRED FROM JOINING THE EU…

- …BUT WE’LL HAVE TO PAY THE EU A FORTUNE, AS WE’LL BE TOO RICH

- YOU WON’T BE ABLE TO WATCH ‘STRICTLY COME DANCING’…

- NOBODY WILL KNOW SCOTLAND’S INTERNATIONAL DIALLING CODE…

- …AND YOU WON’T BE ABLE TO AFFORD PHONE CALLS ANYWAY

- YOU WON’T GET ANY HOLIDAYS EVER

- WE MIGHT HAVE TO GET A WEIRD-LOOKING NEW QUEEN

YOU’LL NEVER WIN THE LOTTERY

- ENGLAND WILL BUILD A NEW HADRIAN’S WALL

- YOU’LL NEED A PASSPORT TO GO TO GARELOCHHEAD

- ORKNEY AND SHETLAND WILL FORM A BREAKAWAY COUNTRY

WE’LL ALL BE MURDERED BY TERRORISTS…

- …AND EVEN IF YOU ONLY GET INJURED YOU’LL BLEED TO DEATH

- WOMEN ALL OVER THE WORLD WILL BE RAPED

- YOU WON’T BE ALLOWED TO LISTEN TO BRITISH MUSIC…

- …AND YOU WON’T FEEL AS CONNECTED TO TENNIS AT WIMBLEDON

- WE’LL HAVE TO DRIVE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROAD

- YOU’LL PROBABLY DIE OF CANCER

- SCOTLAND WILL BE BOMBED BY ENGLAND

- YOUR CHILDREN WILL BE KIDNAPPED

- THE ECONOMY WILL BE DESTROYED

- THE EDINBURGH ZOO PANDAS WILL BE CONFISCATED
- …OR ‘DOCTOR WHO’

- WE’LL GET NUKED AND NOBODY WILL CARE

- YOUR PENSION WILL BE SLASHED

- YOUR FRIENDS AND RELATIVES WILL BECOME FOREIGN

- WE WON’T HAVE THE HORSERACE BETTING LEVY APPEAL TRIBUNAL

dubscottie

It will be a no vote.

I hope all the people that have suffered victimisation and persecution by the yes campaign report it to the police and the people responsible are prosecuted.

Either way I expect some form of civil disorder (who had the bright idea to give pubs late licences for Thursday night/early Friday?)

Scotland will get independence… But some time in the future.

But it won't happen tomorrow, especially not with the fantasy plan (or vision!!) that the yes campaign have.

Looking back at the posts here some of you really need to read or even look it up on wikipedia Scottish history.. Cause you aint got a clue about it or how politics in the UK work.

Scotland was independent .. It did not work out too well when they tried to start an empire in the late 1600's (Shock horror.. The Scottish were imperialists also, not just the English)

Ended up broke just like a modern, independent Scotland will.

dubscottie

Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »

A list of countries who sought to re-join the UK after 142 gained independence:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

There are only 4 countries in the UK...

A Dub in Glasgo

dubscottie wrote: »

I hope all the people that have suffered victimisation and persecution by the yes campaign report it to the police and the people responsible are prosecuted.

Either way I expect some form of civil disorder (who had the bright idea to give pubs late licences for Thursday night/early Friday?)

http://www.spf.org.uk/2014/09/spf-media-release-independence-referendum-2/

SPF Media Release – Independence Referendum

SCOTTISH POLICE FEDERATION
5 Woodside Place, Glasgow, G3 7QF

MEDIA RELEASE

The Scottish Police Federation represents all police officers in the ranks of constable, sergeant, inspector and chief inspector, police cadets and special constables, over 18,500 people, 98% of all police officers in Scotland.

To: News Editor
Date: 17 September 2014
Subject: Independence Referendum

In response to increased press reports and comment implying increased crime and disorder as a consequence of the Independence Referendum Brian Docherty, Chairman of the Scottish Police Federation said;

“The Police Service of Scotland and the men and women who work in it should not be used as a political football at any time and especially so in these last few hours of the referendum campaign.

As I have previously stated the referendum debate has been robust but overwhelmingly good natured.

It was inevitable that the closer we came to the 18th of September passions would increase but that does not justify the exaggerated rhetoric that is being deployed with increased frequency. Any neutral observer could be led to believe Scotland is on the verge of societal disintegration yet nothing could be further from the truth.

Scotland’s citizens are overwhelmingly law abiding and tolerant and it is preposterous to imply that by placing a cross in a box, our citizens will suddenly abandon the personal virtues and values held dear to them all.

At this time it is more important than ever that individuals be they politicians, journalists or whoever should carefully consider their words, maintain level heads and act with respect. Respect is not demonstrated by suggesting a minority of mindless idiots are representative of anything. One of the many joys of this campaign has been how it has awakened political awareness across almost every single section of society. The success enjoyed by the many should not be sullied by the actions of the few.

Police officers must be kept free from the distractions of rhetoric better suited to the playground that the political stump. If crime has been committed it will be investigated and dealt with appropriately but quite simply police officers have better things to do than officiate in spats on social media and respond to baseless speculation of the potential for disorder on and following polling day”

ENDS

dubscottie

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

It has been going on for a lot longer than that

“Scotland heading for a ‘Great Depression’ after a Yes vote”

“Independence: Criminal gangs could exploit new border to evade arrest”

“Independent Scotland would struggle to monitor intelligence”

“Telecoms groups set to warn of price rises if Yes vote triumphs”

“Independence might literally kill the Queen”*

“Scots families face cost of living crisis if UK splits”

“Scotland would have to increase taxes by up to £18,000 per person”

“Independent Scotland faces doubling of BBC licence fee'”

“Independence Could Put Scotland In Danger Of Russian Invasion”

“Yes vote will be catastrophic for all”

“Savers’ money at risk if Scotland votes Yes”

“Scotland team may miss Rio Olympics in event of vote for independence”

“Independence: Business Leader Evokes Fears Of New Jacobite Wars”

“Scottish independence: £750m welfare bill claim”

“£780m school cuts after Yes vote”

“Scottish independence means new wave of painful austerity”

“Shopping bills will rise if Scots vote for independence”

“Yes vote would be a betrayal of fallen WW2 comrades“

“Independence would lead to decades of pain and aggravation”

“Every Scot £480 worse off under independence”

“Yes vote risks EU veto and Wonga style interest rates”

“Universities braced for brain drain if country votes for independence”

“Yes vote risks foreign aid”

“Yes vote is threat to freedom”

“Scots would lose access to BBC shows after independence”

“Independent Scotland’s viewers must pay extra for BBC”

“Alex Salmond’s currency Plan A would collapse within a year”

“Independent Scotland’s economy would crash if it tried to use sterling”

“Go-it-alone Scotland ‘defenceless’: Nation will be left without weapons”

“Mortgages up £1600 if Yes”

“Scottish yes vote could lead to currency limbo, say MPs”

“Postal costs in Scotland could rise after independence, say MPs”

“Scotland and the UK will separate geographically, as well as politically”

“Yes could be catalyst for sterling crisis”

“Yes will send shares crashing”

“Labour claim 1m may lose jobs after independence”

“Darling: Independence could cost Scotland £8bn”

“700,000 to Leave if Union is Broken”

“Yes vote would lead to economic crisis worse than the crash”

“UK split to set back cure for cancer”

“Gordon Brown raises organ-transplant fears ahead of referendum”

“Scotland’s tourism industry is threatened by independence”

“Split ‘may cost Scots £400m for welfare IT’

“Yes vote pension cost warning“

“Vulnerable people could lose benefits in an independent Scotland“

“Bank bailout doubt if Scots vote to quit UK“

“Independent Scotland Could Suffer Iceland-Style Financial Collapse“

“Consumers would snub separate Scotland’s brands“

“Scottish independence ‘would harm world’s poorest'”

“Go-alone Scotland faces threats from space”

“Scottish Independence Will Lead to Soaring Energy Bills”

“Scotland faces £143bn debt after independence”

“Fears for fishing in breakaway Scotland”

“Thousands of defence jobs will be at risk if Scotland votes Yes”

“Scottish independence will cause civil war in Africa”*

“Scottish independence would be cataclysmic for the world”

- THE WHOLE OF WESTERN CIVILISATION AND DEMOCRACY WILL FALL TO THE FORCES OF DARKNESS IN A GLOBE-SPANNING CATACLYSM

- WE’LL BE BARRED FROM JOINING THE EU…

- …BUT WE’LL HAVE TO PAY THE EU A FORTUNE, AS WE’LL BE TOO RICH

- YOU WON’T BE ABLE TO WATCH ‘STRICTLY COME DANCING’…

- NOBODY WILL KNOW SCOTLAND’S INTERNATIONAL DIALLING CODE…

- …AND YOU WON’T BE ABLE TO AFFORD PHONE CALLS ANYWAY

- YOU WON’T GET ANY HOLIDAYS EVER

- WE MIGHT HAVE TO GET A WEIRD-LOOKING NEW QUEEN

YOU’LL NEVER WIN THE LOTTERY

- ENGLAND WILL BUILD A NEW HADRIAN’S WALL

- YOU’LL NEED A PASSPORT TO GO TO GARELOCHHEAD

- ORKNEY AND SHETLAND WILL FORM A BREAKAWAY COUNTRY

WE’LL ALL BE MURDERED BY TERRORISTS…

- …AND EVEN IF YOU ONLY GET INJURED YOU’LL BLEED TO DEATH

- WOMEN ALL OVER THE WORLD WILL BE RAPED

- YOU WON’T BE ALLOWED TO LISTEN TO BRITISH MUSIC…

- …AND YOU WON’T FEEL AS CONNECTED TO TENNIS AT WIMBLEDON

- WE’LL HAVE TO DRIVE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROAD

- YOU’LL PROBABLY DIE OF CANCER

- SCOTLAND WILL BE BOMBED BY ENGLAND

- YOUR CHILDREN WILL BE KIDNAPPED

- THE ECONOMY WILL BE DESTROYED

- THE EDINBURGH ZOO PANDAS WILL BE CONFISCATED
- …OR ‘DOCTOR WHO’

- WE’LL GET NUKED AND NOBODY WILL CARE

- YOUR PENSION WILL BE SLASHED

- YOUR FRIENDS AND RELATIVES WILL BECOME FOREIGN

- WE WON’T HAVE THE HORSERACE BETTING LEVY APPEAL TRIBUNAL

Appart from the bits you have added yourself, Have the yes campaign proof that none of this will happen?

A white paper is nothing more than a dream. The yes campaign know they aint got a clue and have changed the campaign to one of slagging the rest of the UK and intimidating anyone who dares say NO!

Fratton Fred

Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »

A list of countries who sought to re-join the UK after 142 gained independence:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

There were 142 countries in the UK? Where did they all fit?

Its Only Ray Parlour

dubscottie wrote: »

There are only 4 countries in the UK...

You're right, it should be the British Empire.

I copied it from the Twitter if that saves my credibility:

https://twitter.com/Irish_Gaels/status/512306358402969600

A Dub in Glasgo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

There were 142 countries in the UK? Where did they all fit?

In Michelle Mone's ego

dubscottie

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

http://www.spf.org.uk/2014/09/spf-media-release-independence-referendum-2/

That is from the police federation which represents officers.. NOT Police Scotland..

The police have a duty to investigate any crime reported by the public regardless.

If they fail to do so then I am sure the UN human Rights will be all over it..

But that statement shows how scottish state run the yes campaign has been and makes me wonder how safe or true the result will be..

Fratton Fred

Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »

You're right, it should be the British Empire.

I copied it from the Twitter if that saves my credibility:

https://twitter.com/Irish_Gaels/status/512306358402969600

Not really, no.

A Dub in Glasgo

dubscottie wrote: »

That is from the police federation which represents officers.. NOT Police Scotland..

The police have a duty to investigate any crime reported by the public regardless.

If they fail to do so then I am sure the UN human Rights will be all over it..

But that statement shows how scottish state run the yes campaign has been and makes me wonder how safe or true the result will be..

You are deluded

Have you checked all the facts you were demanding last week?

dubscottie

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

You are deluded

Have you checked all the facts you were demanding last week?

I looked at a few but fairytales always send me off to sleep…

And what am I deluded about??

dubscottie

Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »

You're right, it should be the British Empire.

I copied it from the Twitter if that saves my credibility:

https://twitter.com/Irish_Gaels/status/512306358402969600

Rwanda and Mozambique both rejoined the Commonwealth..

Joe Doe

If it's a yes, 'New Alba' will be just the start of further splits,. Balerics, Catalan, Bayern, Flanders, Galazia

...well that is until that is the EU super-state re-asserts overall control of these smaller numerous regions, which it already does anyway.

statesaver

Saor Alba go bragh

man on a BOAT

Stupid sexy Flanders...

efb

Can we have a poll?

dubscottie

efb wrote: »

Can we have a poll?

Yup.. There is one starting in a few hours!

FloatingVoter

I suppose Friday would be a bad day to announce the replacement product for fossil fuels.

efb

dubscottie wrote: »

Yup.. There is one starting in a few hours!

Cool. Ive only ever been to Scotland twice, both for rugby matches!

fryup

"Let the wind blow high
Let the wind blow low
Through the streets
In my kilt, I'll go
All the lassies say hello
Donald, where's your troosers"

man on a BOAT

My only hope is that it goes the way the majority want....

Yay for democracy, (if not necessarily independence)

gladrags

Is there a moratorium today?

Scottie99

I'm in Scotland now -people are saying YES

Scottie99

gladrags wrote: »

Is there a moratorium today?

Nope

NIMAN

About to head off to bed after a night shift, will be interested to switch on the news later today to hear what the Exit polls are saying.

Will also enjoy tomorrow nights' shift, with the bulk of the counts due to come in between 3am and 6am.

Will be a fascinating day, although one which I feel will ultimately produce a NO vote.

You stay classy Scotland.

eire4

Well the polls open in about a half hour in Scotland. I wanted to say how happy I am to be around to witness such a brilliant and magical time for Scotland. Today will not just be a proud day for Scotland but will be a gift of hope to many people in different parts of the world.

Lapin

And they're off !

Polls open now.

Anyone who has the vote - USE IT - Regardless of what way you vote.

You're lucky to have such an opportunity to decide YOUR future peacefully.

And this is all about YOU. Not the politicians or Westminster or Brussels.


Best of luck

Jinonatron

Any exit polls available yet?

Lapin

Jinonatron wrote: »

Any exit polls available yet?

Do you want a yes or no answer to that?

this time tomorrow, we'll probably have a result!

Jinonatron

Although this will have little impact on my life in general, I hope it is a yes. I am firmly of the belief that despite the scarmongering Scotland is well able to cope on it's own and I think smaller countries are better for everyone as everyone has more self determination.

suicide_circus

Best of luck to the Scotts today, not an easy decision.

Lnaa

suicide_circus wrote: »

Best of luck to the Scotts today, not an easy decision.

Just to the Scotts, or to other Scottish people as well ?

Lnaa

I'm a bit confused... I overheard a Scotsman in conversation with someone this morning. They could have been talking about anything I suppose, but I distinctly heard him say "yes" and "no" at different times. Maybe he was one of the undecided!

suicide_circus

Lnaa wrote: »

Just to the Scotts, or to other Scottish people as well ?

Fnaw fnaw!

Lnaa

suicide_circus wrote: »

Fnaw fnaw!

Barely There

Jinonatron wrote: »

Any exit polls available yet?

Yep.
Two guys have come out - one voted 'yes', the other 'no'.
Political commentators are saying it's too close to call.

SharpshooterTom

@andy_murray
Huge day for Scotland today! no campaign negativity last few days totally swayed my view on it. excited to see the outcome. lets do this!

Oh boy, the Wimbledon regatta will be less likely to cheer on their prodigal son after that. Very brave of him to come out and publicly give his support for YES.

Kay Burley yesterday live on air called one of the the YES supporters a knob and their whole campaign a "campaign against England".

Lapin

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

@andy_murray
Huge day for Scotland today! no campaign negativity last few days totally swayed my view on it. excited to see the outcome. lets do this!

Oh boy, the Wimbledon regatta will be less likely to cheer on their prodigal son after that. Very brave of him to come out and publicly give his support for YES.

Kay Burley yesterday live on air called one of the the YES supporters a knob and their whole campaign a "campaign against England".

She was 100% correct on that one.

Fratton Fred

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

@andy_murray
Huge day for Scotland today! no campaign negativity last few days totally swayed my view on it. excited to see the outcome. lets do this!

Oh boy, the Wimbledon regatta will be less likely to cheer on their prodigal son after that. Very brave of him to come out and publicly give his support for YES.

Kay Burley yesterday live on air called one of the the YES supporters a knob and their whole campaign a "campaign against England".

Why would they be less likely to cheer him on?