Scottish Independence discussion area

Mr.Crinklewood

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Why would they be less likely to cheer him on?

He's not as good as he was the was.

keeponhurling

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Don't know, because I don't know how we would have turned out if we'd stayed. I'd like to see greater integration among the four nations of the British Isles though, maybe a loose confederation.

Haha!

We gave it 800 or so years and it didn't really work well being British occupied.

But yes, as you say , maybe we needed to give it more time

Lapin

keeponhurling wrote: »

Haha!

We gave it 800 or so years and it didn't really work well being British occupied.

But yes, as you say , maybe we needed to give it more time

This old rubbish again.

How the hell do these history contortionists manage to weave this crap into every discussion.

WesternZulu

There really should be a media ban for 24 hrs beforehand.

Many of the papers today have a spread pleading for a NO vote!

At this stage such propaganda should be stopped from both sides of the argument and let people have time to think about how they are going to vote without the media trying to pull on heartstrings.

R P McMurphy

dubscottie wrote: »

Rwanda and Mozambique both rejoined the Commonwealth..

When were they colonised by the UK

Irishcrx

Best of luck to Scotland today..

'Frrrrrrrreeeeeeeedddddddooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm'

kefir32

R P McMurphy wrote: »

When were they colonised by the UK

Scotland was never colonised :rolleyes:

Happyman42

After a fascinating campaign, the UK begins to break up today, whatever the outcome. I cannot see anyone or anything that can stop it imploding now.
Interesting times ahead for all of us.

tigger123

kefir32 wrote: »

Scotland was never colonised :rolleyes:

No, but it was just hoovered into another country. It wasn't colonized because there was no need too. Just the UK doing its usual "this is ours now".

Sunnyisland

People everywhere and in every circumstance fear change, be it be in the workplace, your choice of where to live whatever,I think that Scottish people overall will decide that independence was a nice to have, not a must have, and won't vote for it.

would be delighted to be wrong.

Barely There

Happyman42 wrote: »

After a fascinating campaign, the UK begins to break up today, whatever the outcome. I cannot see anyone or anything that can stop it imploding now.
Interesting times ahead for all of us.

Keep dreaming.

The 'No' vote will be so overwhelming that there will be no future discussion on the break-up of the UK for a couple of generations at least.

R P McMurphy

kefir32 wrote: »

Scotland was never colonised :rolleyes:

Did I say Scotland was colonised?

Guy:Incognito

keeponhurling wrote: »

Haha!

We gave it 800 or so years and it didn't really work well being British occupied.

But yes, as you say , maybe we needed to give it more time

What did the Romans ever do......................

tigger123

Barely There wrote: »

Keep dreaming.

The 'No' vote will be so overwhelming that there will be no future discussion on the break-up of the UK for a couple of generations at least.

How can you be so confident of a landslide when the polls are so tight?

OldRio

Good luck to Scotland. We needed guns. You only need a pen.

Kalyke

NIMAN wrote: »

About to head off to bed after a night shift, will be interested to switch on the news later today to hear what the Exit polls are saying.

Will also enjoy tomorrow nights' shift, with the bulk of the counts due to come in between 3am and 6am.

Will be a fascinating day, although one which I feel will ultimately produce a NO vote.

You stay classy Scotland.

There will be no exit polls..
EXIT POLLS

Reuters knows of no exit polls planned for after polling stations close at 2200 London time.

The latest aggregate poll of opinion polls puts the anti-independence camp on 51 percent, the secessionists on 49.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/09/17/uk-scotland-independence-results-idUKKBN0HC1OC20140917

Kermit.de.frog

There should be UN observers for this vote.

ebbsy

I will predict 55-45 to the No side.

D'ont think it will be close.

wendell borton

kefir32 wrote: »

Scotland was never colonised :rolleyes:

The Stuarts became the first rulers of GB, but didn't take long for them to get the chop literally. The heartlands of Jacobite support were then cleared out of their population to make way for the estates of the "gentry".

Fratton Fred

tigger123 wrote: »

No, but it was just hoovered into another country. It wasn't colonized because there was no need too. Just the UK doing its usual "this is ours now".

There really should be a requirement to understand at least a little bit of history before posting in this thread.

First Up

Fratton Fred wrote: »

There really should be a requirement to understand at least a little bit of history before posting in this thread.

That would spoil it.

Barely There

tigger123 wrote: »

How can you be so confident of a landslide when the polls are so tight?

The vast majority of undecided will swing 'no'.
A proportion of the 'yes' vote will get cold feet when push comes to shove and switch to 'no'.

It won't be a landslide 'no' vote, but it will be comprehensive - certainly above 10points, possibly up to 15.

You heard it here first.

SharpshooterTom

WillHill have odds of the YES vote falling inbetween 45.01-50 at evens.

Anyone think that's a good bet? A lot of the NO stuff is very short and far too risky. I'm pretty sure YES can get at least 45%, it would be disappointing from their point of view if they didn't.

First Up

Jinonatron wrote: »

Although this will have little impact on my life in general, I hope it is a yes. I am firmly of the belief that despite the scarmongering Scotland is well able to cope on it's own and I think smaller countries are better for everyone as everyone has more self determination.

fair enough, so its an independent Wales next - and a sovereign Northern Ireland.

Mr.David

The markets have priced it as follows atm:

YES majority 17.7% probability
NO majority 82.3% probability

wendell borton

Alba go brath!

Fratton Fred

First Up wrote: »

fair enough, so its an independent Wales next - and a sovereign Northern Ireland.

If there's one thing I've learnt from boards, it is that self determination is the most important thing there is.

Except for northern Ireland, Gibraltar and the Falklands.

namloc1980

Fratton Fred wrote: »

If there's one thing I've learnt from boards, it is that self determination is the most important thing there is.

Except for northern Ireland, Gibraltar and the Falklands.

What does that mean?

Smiles35

Fratton Fred wrote: »

If there's one thing I've learnt from boards, it is that self determination is the most important thing there is.

Except for northern Ireland, Gibraltar and the Falklands.

And Hong Kong..

OldRio

Fratton Fred wrote: »

If there's one thing I've learnt from boards, it is that self determination is the most important thing there is.

Except for northern Ireland, Gibraltar and the Falklands.

Not enough attention at school was it?
'Look at me' says fred 'Look at meeeeee'


Awfully sad really.

Mr.David

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

WillHill have odds of the YES vote falling inbetween 45.01-50 at evens.

Anyone think that's a good bet? A lot of the NO stuff is very short and far too risky. I'm pretty sure YES can get at least 45%, it would be disappointing from their point of view if they didn't.

Yes, thats good. In fact, its an arb versus betfair where you should be able to lay it at 1.96 or so.

Fratton Fred

namloc1980 wrote: »

What does that mean?

It means the common consensus is that those places automatically, despite the very obvious wishes of their populations, belong to their nearest neighbour, based solely on geography.

SharpshooterTom

Mr.David wrote: »

Yes, thats good. In fact, its an arb versus betfair where you should be able to lay it at 1.96 or so.

Bookies are beginning to shorten heavily on NO, PaddyPower has just moved in from 1.22 to 1.20 in the last hour.

I want to bet on it, but worry they'll get less than 45% now (not more).

Nermal

Noblong wrote: »

And Hong Kong..

And the Chagos Islands...

Fratton Fred

Noblong wrote: »

And Hong Kong..

Shame, but legal treaties are legal treaties.

Peppa Pig

Nermal wrote: »

And the Chagos Islands...

And Bermuda.

Berserker

namloc1980 wrote: »

What does that mean?

It means that despite the wishes of the people the land should automatically "belong" to it's nearest neighbour. The Falklands voted, with a huge majority - 90%, to remain a UK territory last year but these people think it should be part of Argentina, against the will of the people. NI is part of the UK but the same people think that it should merge with the RoI, despite the fact that the people of N.I. and the RoI, for the most-part, have no desire for a union.

More interesting again, is the fact that these same people will tell you that the RoI and NI should merge because we are on the same island but they are hoping for an independent Scotland today and thus a break up of the Great Britain, as an island.

2ndcoming

Berserker wrote: »

More interesting again, is the fact that these same people will tell you that the RoI and NI should merge because we are on the same island but they are hoping for an independent Scotland today and thus a break up of the Great Britain, as an island.

That's such deliberately simplistic logic. They're two different countries with vastly different histories.

Balmed Out

Berserker wrote: »

It means that despite the wishes of the people the land should automatically "belong" to it's nearest neighbour. The Falklands voted, with a huge majority - 90%, to remain a UK territory last year but these people think it should be part of Argentina, against the will of the people. NI is part of the UK but the same people think that it should merge with the RoI, despite the fact that the people of N.I. and the RoI, for the most-part, have no desire for a union.

While normally not wanting to agree with the overly nationalist element on boards thats a bit simplistic.

Northern Ireland contains plenty of areas with a majority in favor of becoming a part of the republic. Before partition a large majority of the entire island wanted to cede from the UK. If a parish in Dublin contains a huge majority of Poles who want to join with Poland should they be allowed. Its a lot more complicated then the Falklands.

Lumping the situation of Northern Ireland with the Falklands in the same bowl.........?????, any eejit can tell the Falkland is and should remain British, the French and Spanish probably have more legitimate claims then the Argentinians.

Fratton Fred

Balmed Out wrote: »

While normally not wanting to agree with the overly nationalist element on boards thats a bit simplistic.

Northern Ireland contains plenty of areas with a majority in favor of becoming a part of the republic. Before partition a large majority of the entire island wanted to cede from the UK. If a parish in Dublin contains a huge majority of Poles who want to join with Poland should they be allowed. Its a lot more complicated then the Falklands.

Lumping the situation of Northern Ireland with the Falklands in the same bowl.........?????, any eejit can tell the Falkland is and should remain British, the French and Spanish probably have more legitimate claims then the Argentinians.

It is simplistic, but most of the proponents of the yes campaign appear to see the world this simply.

First Up

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It is simplistic, but most of the proponents of the yes campaign appear to see the world this simply.

When justification for something is found more in the past than in the future, it is time to review the argument.

Beefy78

I've avoided this thread largely the last few weeks because it was fairly obvious who we'd see arguing the same points over and over again on both sides

That said the big day is here and I'd like to wish all of my Scottish friends the very best today. As a proud Englishman I hope they vote 'no'. But if I was Scottish I can't say that I wouldn't be very, very tempted to vote 'Yes' in the face of all logic. it must be such a tempting and exciting prospect.

Good luck to them and hopefully whatever the result we can all move forward as friends.

cruiserweight

Voted this morning at 8:30, not as busy as I thought it would be, although seems that there were a lot of people in early

Jinonatron

First Up wrote: »

fair enough, so its an independent Wales next - and a sovereign Northern Ireland.

Why not? I'm sure bother would work.

Sunnyisland

cruiserweight wrote: »

Voted this morning at 8:30, not as busy as I thought it would be, although seems that there were a lot of people in early

What way you vote :-)

Its Only Ray Parlour

cruiserweight wrote: »

Voted this morning at 8:30, not as busy as I thought it would be, although seems that there were a lot of people in early

What time did polls open at?

Berserker

2ndcoming wrote: »

That's such deliberately simplistic logic. They're two different countries with vastly different histories.

I am breaking the argument down using the same simplistic logic that Nationalists use.

Smiles35

First Up wrote: »

When justification for something is found more in the past than in the future, it is time to review the argument.

No justifcation was sought useing Irelands history. Useing the troubles for staying together however?

moxin

Barely There wrote: »

Keep dreaming.

The 'No' vote will be so overwhelming that there will be no future discussion on the break-up of the UK for a couple of generations at least.

Barely There wrote: »

The vast majority of undecided will swing 'no'.
A proportion of the 'yes' vote will get cold feet when push comes to shove and switch to 'no'.

It won't be a landslide 'no' vote, but it will be comprehensive - certainly above 10points, possibly up to 15.

You heard it here first.

How do you know? You a psychic?

cruiserweight

realies wrote: »

What way you vote :-)

That is between me and the ballot box Irrespective of how people vote I think that it is a good thing that so many people have engaged with the issues around the referendum, I hope that as many people as possible exercise their right to vote.

Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »

What time did polls open at?

7am, close at 10pm