Scottish Independence discussion area

Grandpa Hassan

tayto lover wrote: »

I thought he was only Scottish when he lost???
Well according to sports commentators anyway.

The old urban myth gets regurgitated again.....

LorMal

fleet_admiral wrote: »

Andy 'Scottish' Murray when he loses, Andy 'British' Murray when he wins

We are plenty guilty of that here ourselves

GLaDOS

fleet_admiral wrote: »

Andy 'Scottish' Murray when he loses, Andy 'British' Murray when he wins

I don't think I've ever actually seen this, except in the mind of people wanting to have a pop at the British media.

Fratton Fred

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2760229/Has-Andy-Murray-come-favour-Scottish-independence-Tennis-star-tweets-No-campaign-negativity-totally-swayed-view.html

The reaction to Andy Murray's decision to support YES to independence has been massively negative. There's been over 3000 comments on the Daily Mail to his decision and its pretty damn ugly so far. Twitter's worse though, the HuffPost UK put twitter responses such as "he should've been shot and killed in Dunblane" etc.

I hope this doesn't affect his support, but you would be mad to suggest this wont make any difference. He's effectively said no at the idea of being British, and expects support from the British crowd next at Wimbledon? We'll see how this one plays out.

I certainly hope its not representive of DM and twitter. The press will eat him alive over this, his brother Jamie has come out in support of YES as well.

Hell has no fury like a Daily Mail keyboard warrior.

renegademaster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K-V8ZWyNMs

Choose life.
Choose a job.
Choose a career.
Choose a family,
Choose a ****ing big television
Choose washing machines, cars,
compact disc players, and electrical tin openers.
Choose good health, low cholesterol
and dental insurance.
Choose fixed-interest mortgage repayments.
Choose a starter home.
Choose your friends.
Choose leisure wear and matching luggage.
Choose a three piece suite on hire purchase
in a range of ****ing fabrics.
Choose DIY and wondering who you
are on a Sunday morning.
Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing
sprit-crushing game shows
Stuffing ****ing junk food into your mouth.
Choose rotting away at the end of it all,
pishing you last in a miserable home
Nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish,
****ed-up brats you have spawned to replace yourself.
Choose your future. Choose life.

Fratton Fred

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I don't think I've ever actually seen this, except in the mind of people wanting to have a pop at the British media.

It comes from an English paper iirc.

Andy was asked a good few years ago who he was supporting in the world cup and came out with the usual "whoever England are playing" line.

The response was that's fine Andy, because you're only British when you win , but Scots when you lose.

This, of course, has been twisted since then.

If you read news reports in Andy Murray in the English media, he is called Scottish more often than British. Tim Henman on the other hand was very rarely called English.

kingchess

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I don't think I've ever actually seen this, except in the mind of people wanting to have a pop at the British media.

I remember some fuss about Colin Farrell being called British and the interviewer being called up on it by some American Actor-Samuel jackson I think

Cosmo Kramer

There's a very strange atmosphere in my office here in East Kilbride today. A lot of people have taken the day off to represent the two campaigns at polling stations but there is a real nervous energy among those still here - not a lot of work getting done! Strangely the Yes campaign are still out in full force leafleting and canvassing outside the office today as they have been all month, but the no campaign have called it off - I thought they would stay at it right through the voting day for this of all issues.

Unquestionably this is a Yes office, but it is not a representative sample of the Scottish population - jobs here are likely to be well protected regardless of the outcome. I will be voting later this evening but my voting area, East Renfrewshire, is one of the safest No council areas in Scotland and may well end up with the highest No vote in the country - the atmosphere there is very different to East Kilbride.

It's looking like an all nighter tonight as the results come in so I'll try and get a few hours sleep this evening and then tune in just as the polls close.

The Scots have a distinguished history of glorious failure. I'm expecting more of the same here and am guessing we'll end up with a No vote by about 53-47.

First Up

kingchess wrote: »

do not make your problems extracting information from a post my problem.

You seem well able to make your own problems.

oppenheimer1

Akrasia wrote: »

One thing that strikes me, is that it is illegal for the media to report on exit polls until after the voting is closed because reporting one way or another could affect the outcome of the vote, but bookies are allowed to 'declare a winner' and pay-out while most people haven't even voted yet.

There's something wrong there. It's possible that the bookies declaring the victory to the No side, could be a factor in some potential voters deciding whether or not to make the trip to the voting booths

There really should be a media moratorium on polling data and other factors which can influence a vote from 24 hours before the polls open to when the polls close.

The way the UK media has conducted itself has been nothing short of a disgrace (as usual) during this campaign. Particularly the later stages.

Piliger

fleet_admiral wrote: »

Andy 'Scottish' Murray when he loses, Andy 'British' Murray when he wins

Yes indeed. It happens all the time and the same for Irish athletes too.

Piliger

gladrags wrote: »

It seems perfectly reasonable that older voters will vote based on historical and cultural events,including wars.

Just as younger voters will vote for other reasons,male and female ditto,the list is endless.

There are many factors why voters will vote a certain way,individually and collectively.

Yes indeed. Patriotism is one of the biggest factors, culture, family history and family inculcation.

gladrags

Adamantium wrote: »

The amount of BS we've been dragged through on TV/papers by the no campaign is horrendous. Once in a lifetime opportunity to make an actual change, will be sorely disappointed if the people of Scotland don't take their chance.

It's almost like the status quo woke up with the house on fire,and used everything in there power to extinguish the flames.

The Scots have a lot to be proud of.

Satriale

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

There really should be a media moratorium on polling data and other factors which can influence a vote from 24 hours before the polls open to when the polls close.

The way the UK media has conducted itself has been nothing short of a disgrace (as usual) during this campaign. Particularly the later stages.

You mean allow the people to make up their own minds. Are you mad!!!!

They might vote the wrong way!

Fratton Fred

Piliger wrote: »

Yes indeed. It happens all the time and the same for Irish athletes too.

If it happens all the time, you will have no problem providing some supporting evidence of that then

kingchess

First Up wrote: »

You seem well able to make your own problems.

should you not have added "in my opinion" to that??? ,you are the one who seem to have problems reading a post,,

LordNorbury

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

It's looking like an all nighter tonight as the results come in so I'll try and get a few hours sleep this evening and then tune in just as the polls close.

Will the ballot boxes be opened tonight after polling or do they start the counting of votes in the morning (that is always how it is done here in Ireland, counting of votes won't start til the next morning).

Happyman42

LordNorbury wrote: »

Will the ballot boxes be opened tonight after polling or do they start the counting of votes in the morning (that is always how it is done here in Ireland, counting of votes won't start til the next morning).

You'll know in the early hours of tomorrow, by all accounts

LordNorbury

Happyman42 wrote: »

You'll know in the early hours of tomorrow, by all accounts

Beer and pizza night in so by the tele!

recylingbin

recylingbin wrote: »

He's always said he was Scottish not British. I seem to remember an interview, from earlier in his career, where he coorected a journalist that called him British.
He doesn't expect support anywhere.
He'll still get support at Wimbledon because there is less of your knobhead tribalism there.

He's never said he isn't British. He's always said he is Scottish AND British.

It's actually disheartening how ignorant people are relating to almost everything Scottish. When did he correct the journalist who called him British? The answer is he didn't - unless you are referring to a joke perhaps?

"That win was for myself but I also understand how much everyone else wanted to see a British winner at Wimbledon. I hope you guys enjoyed it."

Anyway, if it somehow makes you happy to imagine Andy Murray doesn't think he is British, go for it.

Cosmo Kramer

LordNorbury wrote: »

Will the ballot boxes be opened tonight after polling or do they start the counting of votes in the morning (that is always how it is done here in Ireland, counting of votes won't start til the next morning).

They'll be starting right away - TV coverage right through the night. It should all be done and dusted by 7 or 8am tomorrow.

Donkey Oaty

One thing that we can be absolutely certain about is this: Andy Murray will not be voting "Yes".

First Up

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

They'll be starting right away - TV coverage right through the night. It should all be done and dusted by 7 or 8am tomorrow.

I would assume the media will have been conducting exit polls and will reveal the results as soon as the polls close. That should give us an unofficial picture very quickly.
I expect to have a pretty good idea of the result before I go to bed tonight -and I'm not planning to stay up late.

Adamantium

Makes a lot of good points, particularly on how the cloistered establishment have suddenly woke up now that the ordinary plebs have become interested and involved, and want/realise they could have self determinism over their own lives

Love the bit on Cameron not fear mongering, except that's why he had to say "it's not fear mongering", but it sounds exactly like that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7VNQih51T0

tayto lover

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I don't think I've ever actually seen this, except in the mind of people wanting to have a pop at the British media.

I've heard it.

pedro1234

From a yes voter: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2gp9iv/serious_scottish_of_reddit_are_you_voting_yes_or/ckl9vva

Yes voter checking in.

• First, I'm 43, and have voted in national elections since 1992. I've never seen a Westminster party that represented me. Labour or Conservative are both slaves to the Square Mile. Note that this isn't "anti-English" ~ the English are wonderful neighbours, a lovely bunch of people, and I hope this continues whatever the result of the referendum. God forbid our relationship was anything like Israel/Palestine, or Ukraine/Russia. No, it's the Old Boy Network of Eton/Oxbridge/Bullingdon Club toffs who I object to.
• North Sea oil will likely run out in 2050 or thereabouts. We've been extracting it for 40 years, but have no sovereign wealth fund like most oil-producing nations. Also, despite Scotland's vast natural resources (wind, water, coastlines), we are the worst in Europe for investment in renewable energy. That's extreme short-sightedness from Westminster, who always have and always will treat the oil like a slush fund to squander. The Nationalists promise both a sovereign wealth fund, and more investment in alternative energy, which makes them the best choice for those worried about the long-term future of the country.
• Related to the above, when Margaret Thatcher came to power in 1979 (35 years in the past) our manufacturing industries at Linwood and Ravenscraig were in decline. Her government closed down everything, decimated communities (not just in Scotland, but around Britain), and left us to sink or swim. Being "in the Union" was a curse back in those grim days. I see no reason to assume the Westminster of 35 years in the future would be any different.
• Since coming to power in the Scottish Parliamentary elections in 2007, the SNP have done a far better job of running the country than Labour ever did (from my perspective).
• There are literally dozens of countries that have seceded from UK rule. Not a single one has ever decided it was a bad idea and asked to recant their independence. If everyone from Canada to Kiribati thought it was a great choice, why should we be any different?
• My girlfriend is a Slovak. They went through their own "Velvet Divorce" in 1993. At the time, Slovakia's GDP was behind the Czech Republic by about a third. The financial gap between the two countries is now down to around 5%. Slovakia is about the same size as Scotland and has the same population, but has no coastline and fewer natural resources, so I think we could do at least as well as they did, relative to rUK.
• I live in my own house. My parents live in a nicer, bigger house, which is worth more and in a better neighbourhood. If I lived with them, I'd be better off financially, and they'd probably do stuff like laundry and cooking for me. But I'm a grown-up. I want to live in my own place, be self-sufficient, and make my own decisions, even if I'm not as comfortable as I might otherwise be. I apply exactly the same logic to my country.

I can't argue with any of that.

Barely There

pedro1234 wrote: »

From a yes voter: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2gp9iv/serious_scottish_of_reddit_are_you_voting_yes_or/ckl9vva



I can't argue with any of that.

Thought it was a bit of a thinly veiled 'I have a Slovak girlfriend' boast myself.

iownaphone

any exit polls??

Happyman42

LordNorbury wrote: »

Beer and pizza night in so by the tele!

Knocking the top off a bottle of smoky Scotch myself.

Donkey Oaty

Barely There wrote: »

Thought it was a bit of a thinly veiled 'I have a Slovak girlfriend' boast myself.

I was expecting him to say:

I live in my own house. My parents live in a nicer, bigger house, which is worth more and in a better neighbourhood. If I lived with them, I'd be better off financially, and they'd probably do stuff like laundry and cooking for me.

However, now I have a Slovak girlfriend to do all that stuff for me.

Piliger

iownaphone wrote: »

any exit polls??

After voting closes.

Fratton Fred

tayto lover wrote: »

I've heard it.

From a friend?

First Up

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

I was expecting him to say:

Will his Slovak girlfriend be able to stay in Scotland after they leave the EU?

Piliger

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

They'll be starting right away - TV coverage right through the night. It should all be done and dusted by 7 or 8am tomorrow.

Maybe with predictions a lot sooner ...

Adamantium

The contempt the Tories and politics in general have for a 3rd option, in this case an independent Scotland. You can have democracy... just not the form that we don't like or outside of our self anonited framework. Almost aghast at why somebody would want to do things differently.

The video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAT_BuJAI70

tayto lover

Fratton Fred wrote: »

From a friend?

From some sports commentator actually.
I should have made a note of it in the expectation i'd be asked on a future date :rolleyes:

pedro1234

iownaphone wrote: »

any exit polls??

They're not allowed to write about exit polls until the voting is over.

It's still 4/1 with the bookies so I'd say it's going to be a No.

Michael D Not Higgins

iownaphone wrote: »

any exit polls??

No because the polls are still open for another 7 and a half hours.

Guy:Incognito

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

No because the polls are still open for another 7 and a half hours.

Yes so it's open now with many people "exiting the poll(ing station)". Usually a good place for such things.




But anyway, they're not allowed.

Akrasia

First Up wrote: »

I would assume the media will have been conducting exit polls and will reveal the results as soon as the polls close. That should give us an unofficial picture very quickly.
I expect to have a pretty good idea of the result before I go to bed tonight -and I'm not planning to stay up late.

In theory yes, But I remember a certain election where I went to bed to the media declaring John Kerry the winner and woke up to a second term for George W Bush

Fratton Fred

tayto lover wrote: »

From some sports commentator actually.
I should have made a note of it in the expectation i'd be asked on a future date :rolleyes:

Once then.

Not to worry, Pilliger reckons this happens "all the time" so he can provide us some evidence.

Piliger

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Once then.

Not to worry, Pilliger reckons this happens "all the time" so he can provide us some evidence.

Yep. All the time.

First Up

Akrasia wrote: »

In theory yes, But I remember a certain election where I went to bed to the media declaring John Kerry the winner and woke up to a second term for George W Bush

I know, but no electoral college, hanging chards or dodgy voter registration in this one.

Sunnyisland

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Once then.

Not to worry, Pilliger reckons this happens "all the time" so he can provide us some evidence.

It's happened lots of times Fred and you know it, most recent one was some brittish paper saying Kate tailor was a brittish champion boxer, same in music with U2, thin lizzy boomtown rats etc,but it's ok as were all part of the home nations....

In a British program about Samuel L Jackson and Colin Farrell’s lastest movie SWAT presented by British presenter, Kate Thornton, the following exchange occured:

Thornton: What was it like working with Colin (Farrell), cos he is just so hot in the U.K. right now?

Jackson: He’s pretty hot in the U.S. too.

Thornton: Yeah, but he is one of our own.

Jackson: Isn’t he from Ireland?

Thornton: Yeah, but we can claim him cos Ireland is beside us.

Jackson: You see that’s your problem right there. You British keep claiming people that don’t belong to you. We had that problem here in America too, it was called slavery.


Lots more but you can look for them yourself.

who the fug

Akrasia wrote: »

In theory yes, But I remember a certain election where I went to bed to the media declaring John Kerry the winner and woke up to a second term for George W Bush

Even better

What ever the result it will be The Tories fault

iownaphone

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Yes so it's open now with many people "exiting the poll(ing station)". Usually a good place for such things.




But anyway, they're not allowed.

Even unofficial ones? what with the twitter m/c's etc

Spring Onion

The question now is not whether No will win but by how much.
If its close 51/49 for No, that is essentially a win for the Yes side and there will be another referendum within 10 years - and they'll get a hell of a lot of devolution powers in the meantime.
The best thing for Ireland would be a 60/40 for No.

Fratton Fred

realies wrote: »

It's happened lots of times Fred and you know it, most recent one was some brittish paper saying Kate tailor was a brittish champion boxer, same in music with U2, thin lizzy boomtown rats etc,but it's ok as were all part of the home nations....

In a British program about Samuel L Jackson and Colin Farrell’s lastest movie SWAT presented by British presenter, Kate Thornton, the following exchange occured:

Thornton: What was it like working with Colin (Farrell), cos he is just so hot in the U.K. right now?

Jackson: He’s pretty hot in the U.S. too.

Thornton: Yeah, but he is one of our own.

Jackson: Isn’t he from Ireland?

Thornton: Yeah, but we can claim him cos Ireland is beside us.

Jackson: You see that’s your problem right there. You British keep claiming people that don’t belong to you. We had that problem here in America too, it was called slavery.


Lots more but you can look for them yourself.

It happens all the time apparently, especially with Andy Murray, but a two year old article about Katie Taylor is all you can come up with.

BringBackMick

I have heard there are no exit polls for this ref?

First Up

Spring Onion wrote: »

The question now is not whether No will win but by how much.
If its close 51/49 for No, that is essentially a win for the Yes side and there will be another referendum within 10 years - and they'll get a hell of a lot of devolution powers in the meantime.
The best thing for Ireland would be a 60/40 No.

Eh, no - it will be a defeat for them and there won't be another referendum in 10 years any more than there would be if the vote was Yes.