Scottish Independence discussion area

Osvaldo

COME ON SCOTLAND!!!!!

laugh

Jakey Rolling wrote: »

What happens if it's a draw, exactly 50/50?
Does someone have the casting vote, does status quo prevail, or do they have a rerun of the vote?

There was an even number of registered voters but one of them passed away so it's grand now.

dubscottie

BringBackMick wrote: »

The Scottish will simply have the Scottish Pound, pegged to Sterling. It is better for them to control their own currency anyway and it will probably be stronger than the UK pound.

There is no way the EU could morally deny Scotland accession to Europe.

Like the Manx pound? Last time I was there they couldn't wait to take UK pounds off us..

And the EU does not have morals. But that is for another thread somewhere.

Lnaa

Wurzelbert wrote: »

turkey? why should turkey ever become a member of the eu? turkey isn’t even a european country…scotland is.

(yeah yeah, i know a small part of turkey is geographically in europe…but that doesn’t make turkey a european nation, historically, culturally, ethnically and all…in fact, turkey – the ottoman empire - used to be europe’s nemesis and could only be defeated after centuries of war…)

Is there such a thing as culturally or ethnically European? What is it to be European? Europe is just a name for a geographic region of the world. Ireland is a European country, so is Bosnia, but I think you'd find a great deal of cultural and ethical difference between the two.

dubscottie

Osvaldo wrote: »

COME ON SCOTLAND!!!!!

Its not the fecking football or rugby FFS:rolleyes:

Lnaa

dubscottie wrote: »

Like the Manx pound? Last time I was there they couldn't wait to take UK pounds off us..

And the EU does not have morals. But that is for another thread somewhere.

Are you suggesting Angie is less than decent? Tsk tsk, scaremongering .

My name is URL

Karsini wrote: »

It has probably been said already but I can't see how Scotland will be able to keep the Pound as well as become EU members. The EU have already said that there will be no more exemptions, so this would imply that they'll have to join the Euro if they want to become an EU member as an independent state.

Scotland, as part of the UK is already an EU member. In that regard it wouldn't be so much an exemption of a rule as it would be an extension of an already extent situation.

Lnaa

Osvaldo wrote: »

COME ON SCOTLAND!!!!!

FORZA ITALIA!!!!!

Peppa Pig

dubscottie wrote: »

Its not the fecking football or rugby FFS:rolleyes:

Except when Cameron said that a yes vote would lead to the end of the "British Lions"

More unsubstantiated scaremongering that was.

You really should not have said, in AH that you hate that word

namloc1980

Karsini wrote: »

It has probably been said already but I can't see how Scotland will be able to keep the Pound as well as become EU members. The EU have already said that there will be no more exemptions, so this would imply that they'll have to join the Euro if they want to become an EU member as an independent state.

Yes every accession treaty since the 1990s has required new member states to join the Euro. But, and its a big but, to join the Euro there are 5 key criteria that a member must adhere to. One of those is to be a member of ERM II (exchange rate mechanism) for a minimum of two years. Crucially ERM membership is optional. This is why Sweden who joined the eu nearly 20 years ago is still outside the Euro even though it's accession treaty commits it to Euro membership. It has simply remained outside ERM and thus the Euro. Scotland would do the same if it wished.

Wurzelbert

dubscottie wrote: »

[...]Europe is just a name for a geographic region of the world[...]

er, no...there’s much more to it and several ways of defining it…but that's a discussion that would blow the frame of this thread…

Osvaldo

dubscottie wrote: »

Its not the fecking football or rugby FFS:rolleyes:

Yeah I know.

It's the snooker; the darts; the highland games; Irn Bru; Buckfast; take the high road. It's that tartan; the battered mars bar. Yes. The battered mars bar! The taste of the melted chocolate; just like independence! Chocolately and prosperous!

COME ON SCOTLAND!!

NoviGlitzko

Any early indication of where the vote is going? BBC saying they can't state until the morning. Thanks in advance.

Guy:Incognito

Osvaldo wrote: »

Yeah I know.

It's the snooker; the darts; the highland games; Irn Bru; Buckfast; take the high road. It's that tartan; the battered mars bar. Yes. The battered mars bar! The taste of the melted chocolate; just like independence! Chocolately and prosperous!

COME ON SCOTLAND!!

Is that supposed to be a pro Scotland post? Because none of those things are appealing.

moxin

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Except when Cameron said that a yes vote would lead to the end of the "British Lions"

More unsubstantiated scaremongering that was.

You really should not have said, in AH that you hate that word

And some British military head said an independent Scotland would leave Britain vulnerable to attack :rolleyes: I wonder was he a part time comedian as well?

My name is URL

Live video feed from George Square

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DxEOGzfgRw

Looks like some atmosphere in all fairness. I wish Irish referenda were such fun

NoviGlitzko

NoviGlitzko wrote: »

Any early indication of where the vote is going? BBC saying they can't state until the morning. Thanks in advance.

Surprised at that, Usually once ALL the polling stations (speculation that some may have to stay open if there are queues) have closed the voting done, then they're free to announce exit polls.

dubscottie

namloc1980 wrote: »

Yes every accession treaty since the 1990s has required new member states to join the Euro. But, and its a big but, to join the Euro there are 5 key criteria that a member must adhere to. One of those is to be a member of ERM II (exchange rate mechanism) for a minimum of two years. Crucially ERM membership is optional. This is why Sweden who joined the eu nearly 20 years ago is still outside the Euro even though it's accession treaty commits it to Euro membership. It has simply remained outside ERM and thus the Euro. Scotland would do the same if it wished.

What about Schengen? Never answered either.. Scotland, as new EU members will have to sign up.

End of the CTA for Scotland.

Osvaldo

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Is that supposed to be a pro Scotland post? Because none of those things are appealing.

Yes Sir it is! Appeal is subjective.

Beefy78

Deleted User wrote: »

Surprised at that, Usually once ALL the polling stations (speculation that some may have to stay open if there are queues) have closed the voting done, then they're free to announce exit polls.

There's no exit polls to announce.

BringBackMick

Are we topping up for Yes before the action starts?

4/1 worth another 100$?

Lnaa

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Except when Cameron said that a yes vote would lead to the end of the "British Lions"

More unsubstantiated scaremongering that was.

You really should not have said, in AH that you hate that word

Ah for flips sake, there's no scaremongering in this. People in this part of the world have it too good. There are no tanks waiting to roll into Scotland if the people vote yes. There are no armies with guns pointed at each other. There are no fighter jets waiting for take off. That's what happens in certain other parts of the world when countries try to make a break for independence. Discussing financial implications, the fact that the British Lions, which is actually the British and Irish Lions, would have to change its name, and mulling over political issues is talk. Nothing more, nothing less. Running around calling it scaremongering is tack of the nappy still on the @rse stuff.

Guy:Incognito

My name is URL wrote: »

Live video feed from George Square

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DxEOGzfgRw

Looks like some atmosphere in all fairness. I wish Irish referenda were such fun

If they do go independent I doubt the boring spectacle of a referendum to change some aspect of law no one gives a **** about in a couple of years time will be met with such enthusiasm.

Frank Lee Midere

Lnaa wrote: »

Ah for flips sake, there's no scaremongering in this. People in this part of the world have it too good. There are no tanks waiting to roll into Scotland if the people vote yes. There are no armies with guns pointed at each other. There are no fighter jets waiting for take off. That's what happens in certain other parts of the world when countries try to make a break for independence. Discussing financial implications, the fact that the British Lions, which is actually the British and Irish Lions, would have to change its name, and mulling over political issues is talk. Nothing more, nothing less. Running around calling it scaremongering is tack of the nappy still on the @rse stuff.

Why bring it up?

Beefy78

Beefy78 wrote: »

There's no exit polls to announce.

No one doing an exit poll? That would be very surprising...

Guy:Incognito

Deleted User wrote: »

No one doing an exit poll? That would be very surprising...

What's more surprising is the fact that exit polls haven't come up in the thread before now..................

BringBackMick

Deleted User wrote: »

No one doing an exit poll? That would be very surprising...

No exit poll. They start counting straight away. No official exit poll.

namloc1980

dubscottie wrote: »

What about Schengen? Never answered either.. Scotland, as new EU members will have to sign up.

End of the CTA for Scotland.

It is preposterous to suggest that you force Scotland to erect borders when we don't have them on this island given the geographic nature of these islands versus mainland Europe.

Specialun

Deleted User wrote: »

No one doing an exit poll? That would be very surprising...

Against the law for this

briany

The British and Irish Lions bit is ridiculous. There wouldn't be a name change as Scotland would still be a part of Britain, even if it left the UK. You can be Scottish and British, because identity is a multi-layered thing oftentimes.

Lnaa

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Why bring it up?

The yes side has been nauseatingly histrionic from the start. Accusations that a Scot who votes no is not a real Scot and battling any statement suggesting that independence might not be the best option with a charge of scaremongering isn't even key stage two stuff.

Guy:Incognito

namloc1980 wrote: »

It is preposterous to suggest that you force Scotland to erect borders when we don't have them on this island given the geographic nature of these islands versus mainland Europe.

Theres a handy wall there already they could use.......

briany

No official exit poll. Does that stop post-poll surveys and the like?

dubscottie

I have seen a pic on twitter of some PSNI land rovers en route to Scotland on the ferry.. (and NO I will not share)

All police leave canceled.

Ill be watching that video feed.. When it goes NO, the **** will hit the fan. As some have said, Scotland has changed forever and they have the SNP to thank for that.

My only hope is that it does not turn into another NI.

oppenheimer1

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

That's called running a country .

Sale of assets should be used for funding infrastructure and investments which will generate a return in the future - when the oil is long gone. Westminster squandered it on tax breaks for the wealthy and a bloated public sector.

Fratton Fred

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Sale of assets should be used for funding infrastructure and investments which will generate a return in the future - when the oil is long gone. Westminster squandered it on tax breaks for the wealthy and a bloated public sector.

And a huge, cost free and very effective national health service.

Dozen Wicked Words

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Sale of assets should be used for funding infrastructure and investments which will generate a return in the future - when the oil is long gone. Westminster squandered it on tax breaks for the wealthy and a bloated public sector.

And you don't think the SNP will have a bloated public sector in an independent Scotland? Amusing.

My name is URL

dubscottie wrote: »

I have seen a pic on twitter of some PSNI land rovers en route to Scotland on the ferry.. (and NO I will not share)

Fcuk off then.

Don't publicly claim to have seen a picture and then whinge about why you want to keep it private. What sort of clown does that!?

Lnaa

namloc1980 wrote: »

It is preposterous to suggest that you force Scotland to erect borders when we don't have them on this island given the geographic nature of these islands versus mainland Europe.

The problem is that if Scotland joined the EU as a new entrant then it would be forced to join the Euro and Schengen. The UK and Ireland is not part of the Schengen agreement. Therefore, you would have two different systems of immigration on the same island. That is why border posts may be set up. There is no need for one between the UK and Ireland, i.e. between the north of Ireland and the Republic, because the two states operate roughly the same immigration system. That's why flights originating in Ireland are treated as domestic in UK airports. It slightly confuses me why the same doesn't operate in reverse but in essence this is the reason border posts would be needed between Scotland and England.

hotmail.com

Massive turnout reported, over 80%.

My name is URL

dubscottie wrote: »

I have seen a pic on twitter of some PSNI land rovers en route to Scotland on the ferry.. (and NO I will not share)

Fcuk off then.

Don't publicly claim to have seen a picture and then whinge about why you want to keep it private. What sort of clown does that!?!

edit: sorry for the duplicated post, not sure what happened there.

Banned for a bit.

Mod.

dubscottie

My name is URL wrote: »

Fcuk off then.

Don't publicly claim to have seen a picture and then whinge about why you want to keep it private. What sort of clown does that!?

Once I work out how to hide the source I will post..

Donkey Oaty

The problem is that if Scotland joined the EU as a new entrant then it would be forced to join the Euro and Schengen

This is not a given. It really isn't.

Lnaa

dubscottie wrote: »

I have seen a pic on twitter of some PSNI land rovers en route to Scotland on the ferry.. (and NO I will not share)

All police leave canceled.

Ill be watching that video feed.. When it goes NO, the **** will hit the fan. As some have said, Scotland has changed forever and they have the SNP to thank for that.

My only hope is that it does not turn into another NI.

I like a lot of what you say, but that's daft talk. Scotland won't descend into a Troubles-esque situation. The factors that led to the Troubles in the north of Ireland simply aren't present in Scotland.

BringBackMick

Going to be some amount of rumours in the coming 5 hours. Looking forward to it!

First Up

BringBackMick wrote: »

The Scottish will simply have the Scottish Pound, pegged to Sterling. It is better for them to control their own currency anyway and it will probably be stronger than the UK pound.

There is no way the EU could morally deny Scotland accession to Europe.

Are you taking the pi*s? Otherwise The naivete and ignorance demonstrated in this one short post is truly jaw-dropping.

How could a Scottish pound be stronger than sterling if it is pegged to sterling? I mean this is primary school stuff.

For what conceivable reasons could the currency of a small, peripheral European country be stronger than one of the world's major currencies? And please don't say whisky, fish or oil. It has too much of the first two and is running out of the third.

As for the EU, have you taken in anything of the complex debate and analysis concerning how a secession within a member state would be handled? Are you blissfully unaware of the concerns over precedent, not to mention the elaborate conditions and procedures for membership?

And have you not noticed that a condition of all new EU members is that they adopt the Euro?

No, you must be taking the pi*s.

Frank Lee Midere

Lnaa wrote: »

The problem is that if Scotland joined the EU as a new entrant then it would be forced to join the Euro and Schengen. The UK and Ireland is not part of the Schengen agreement. Therefore, you would have two different systems of immigration on the same island. That is why border posts may be set up. There is no need for one between the UK and Ireland, i.e. between the north of Ireland and the Republic, because the two states operate roughly the same immigration system. That's why flights originating in Ireland are treated as domestic in UK airports. It slightly confuses me why the same doesn't operate in reverse but in essence this is the reason border posts would be needed between Scotland and England.

No chance of an exemption then?

First Up

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

This is not a given. It really isn't.

Schengen maybe not, but Euro for sure.

Lnaa

One interesting discussion which I don't think has been covered anywhere is what would be the national anthem of an independent Scotland? Technically, Scotland doesn't have an official national anthem. Any suggestions?

moxin

Lnaa wrote: »

I like a lot of what you say, but that's daft talk. Scotland won't descend into a Troubles-esque situation. The factors that led to the Troubles in the north of Ireland simply aren't present in Scotland.

They do have a fierce Loyalist minority stuck in the same timewarp as up north. Sure the OO had a big No march in Edinburgh a few days ago.(though some of the marchers were from NI)