Scottish Independence discussion area

WesternZulu · 19-09-2014 9:17am

Beefy78 wrote: »

But Ireland and Scotland are two completely different cases and were in the UK for two completely different reasons.

It seems like people here are trying to draw a comparison which doesn't exist.

Not really, Scotland classes itself as a country and every self respecting country should aspire to govern itself surely?

There is never a perfect time to go for independence, there is always a huge element of the unknown.
However, I think this was the time they could have done it. For the time-being the oil reserves are still there in the North Sea, they could have used money generated from this resource in the short term to build up a more self sustainable and long term economic strategy for the future.

If the chance ever comes along again for Scotland to vote again then chances are the oil will be gone and it'll be that bit harder to build something from scratch.

iDave · 19-09-2014 9:17am

2ndcoming wrote: »

Whatever way you look at it the only winners are the SNP. Westminster has a fairly serious issue to address in the fact that 45% of the population of the second biggest region of the UK doesn't want anything to do with them.

The Tories will be fairly happy I'd say. In the long run they don't want anything more to do with Scotland than they do with NI. They'd offload the pair of them if they had half a chance.

Not sure about that, they may struggle to be politically relevant now that the big issue they always pushed for got a No.

Fratton Fred · 19-09-2014 9:18am

Wurzelbert wrote: »

as expected, the chance of a lifetime squandered...seems fear got the better of the scots after all, like they have really had all courage and self-esteem hammered and bred out of them...and i reckon non-scottish eu nationals living there may have played a role as well...life goes on...

When the Irish stop voting for corrupt gombeen politicians they may be in a position to criticise.

Barely There · 19-09-2014 9:18am

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

So, to sum-up.
What part of him holding an opinion got your goat the most?

There must be something?
People usually aren't as snide as you without something behind it?
(Unless that's just what you are like?)

Probably the whole po-faced 'I'm dissappointed in them as a Nation' bit.
Along with the over-reaction to being called out on it.

Didn't really get my goat - I just found it amusing - that's just what I'm like.

LorMal · 19-09-2014 9:22am

2ndcoming wrote: »

Whatever way you look at it the only winners are the SNP. Westminster has a fairly serious issue to address in the fact that 45% of the population of the second biggest region of the UK doesn't want anything to do with them.

The Tories will be fairly happy I'd say. In the long run they don't want anything Xmore to do with Scotland than they do with NI. They'd offload the pair of them if they had half a chance.

Please tell me you're joking? You didn't see any of the No campaign then? (run by Alisdair Darling)

Sunnyisland · 19-09-2014 9:22am

Well the scots have spoken, don't understand why a nation would not want to go it alone to be an independent sovereign country,and to takes its stand on tbe world stage.

Won't look at brave heart in the same way again...back into the attic with it.

iDave · 19-09-2014 9:23am

Barely There wrote: »

Probably the whole po-faced 'I'm dissappointed in them as a Nation' bit.
Along with the over-reaction to being called out on it.

Didn't really get my goat - I just found it amusing - that's just what I'm like.

Glad I amused, I'm here all week folks, po-face included.

2ndcoming · 19-09-2014 9:24am

LorMal wrote: »

Please tell me you're joking? You didn't see any of the No campaign then? (run by Alisdair Darling)

Alistair Darling is a Labour MP.

VinLieger · 19-09-2014 9:26am

who the fug wrote: »

The people of Scotland took a look at the options , and made a rational decision based on the information supplied.

That is what happened folks, they did not bottle it, they are not stupid and democracy works

We can only hope the same happens when the NI question is put to a vote and people on the southern side of the border think with their heads and not their armchair patriot hearts

LorMal · 19-09-2014 9:28am

2ndcoming wrote: »

Alistair Darling is a Labour MP.

True enough fair point. But surely no one can argue that the Tories are not Unionists!

Grandpa Hassan · 19-09-2014 9:31am

LorMal wrote: »

Please tell me you're joking? You didn't see any of the No campaign then? (run by Alisdair Darling)

Scottish independence would strengthen the conservatives in Westminster. It is possible that it could be a generation before labour would be in power again. Hence Darling was campaigning so hard and Miliband was panicking.

Cameron would have been concerned about his personal legacy....being known as the PM who presided over the break up of the UK. The wider conservative party would have cried fake tears, whilst at the same time rubbing their hands with respect to their dominance of polictics for the forseeable future.

How long did it take them to seize the initiative and push hard for English devolution? English MPs voting on English matters. It took about a nanosecond. Clearly shows their agenda

WesternZulu · 19-09-2014 9:32am

VinLieger wrote: »

We can only hope the same happens when the NI question is put to a vote and people on the southern side of the border think with their heads and not their armchair patriot hearts

I was all for Scotland going for independence because I thought that as a country they should at least try and stand on their own two feet without any stabilizers provided by London.

The NI question is different, it's not even a country...not sure what you would class it as besides a basketcase that nobody really wants for the time-being, at least not until it matures and learns to behave itself.

Micky Dolenz · 19-09-2014 9:32am

How long before I can start taking the piss out of my Scottish British mates?

Sunnyisland · 19-09-2014 9:32am

VinLieger wrote: »

We can only hope the same happens when the NI question is put to a vote and people on the southern side of the border think with their heads and not their armchair patriot hearts

Love that to happen and one would hope that the unionists in the six counties would accept defeat as graciously as the yes voters in Scotland.

Hunterbiker · 19-09-2014 9:32am

The Tories will gain from this result.
Dave C tying the Lothian question up with greater devolution means they'll placate middle England. Labour will be forced to change the way it uses its Scots MP at Westminster and by merely putting out the ideas and delivering something they gain credility in places where they don't have any.
The Devo Max / sorting out Scottish MPs at Westminster will be a big stick to smash over the Labour Party.head coming into tge nrxt election. Ironic in that Labour championed it and the Tory party hated it I can see them stealing a march on Labour and using the SNP attempts to push things along as a way if further kicking Labout where it hurts.

Happyman42 · 19-09-2014 9:33am

Result as expected.
Gonna grab the popcorn and watch as English Nationalists and Welsh ones and NI one pull the whole thing asunder.
Cameron knows that devolution on the scale he promised hasn't a hope of getting through parliament. He will be able to blame others.
This is only starting imo, the battle is won but the war is going against the UK.

Barely There · 19-09-2014 9:34am

I presume I'm not the only one to have made money from this?

Couldn't believe the bookies had this at 1/4 for the 'No' early this week. There may be no such bet as a 'Sure Thing', but this was surely as close as you can get to buying money.

Result was always a foregone conclusion

RobbieTheRobber · 19-09-2014 9:35am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

When the Irish stop voting for corrupt gombeen politicians they may be in a position to criticise.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Come on surely you have something better to try to wind up some silly posters than this childish ****!

Sunnyisland · 19-09-2014 9:35am

So is the union stronger or weaker ? In the bigger scale of things.

Beefy78 · 19-09-2014 9:36am

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

How long did it take them to seize the initiative and push hard for English devolution? English MPs voting on English matters. It took about a nanosecond. Clearly shows their agenda

That was in Cameron's last manifesto as well.

Pragmatically it would be political suicide to push more power through to Scotland without some redistribution of power to an English assembly or excluding non-English MPs from voting on English affairs. English nationalism has been on the rise for 20 years and a lot of the 50+ in England are getting tired of what is perceived to be preferential treatment for those north of the border.

LorMal · 19-09-2014 9:37am

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Scottish independence would strengthen the conservatives in Westminster. It is possible that it could be a generation before labour would be in power again. Hence Darling was campaigning so hard and Miliband was panicking.

Cameron would have been concerned about his personal legacy....being known as the PM who presided over the break up of the UK. The wider conservative party would have cried fake tears, whilst at the same time rubbing their hands with respect to their dominance of polictics for the forseeable future.

How long did it take them to seize the initiative and push hard for English devolution? English MPs voting on English matters. It took about a nanosecond. Clearly shows their agenda

It's the Conservative (and Unionist) Party. They are passionate about the Union.

Berserker · 19-09-2014 9:37am

VinLieger wrote: »

We can only hope the same happens when the NI question is put to a vote and people on the southern side of the border think with their heads and not their armchair patriot hearts

That vote will never happen. NI would never vote to leave the UK in favour of us. Barstool nationalism is one thing but when push comes to shove, common sense will prevail. They are going to get greater decision making power themselves as a result of this vote today.

VinLieger · 19-09-2014 9:37am

realies wrote: »

Love that to happen and one would hope that the unionists in the six counties would accept defeat as graciously as the yes voters in Scotland.

I think you may have misunderstood me, the south voting NO to a United Ireland is what I was referring to as the logical and reasoned choice similar to Scotland voting No to leave the UK.

Supercell · 19-09-2014 9:38am

They might as well hand back their flag and adopt the Georges cross, after all that what the majority seems to want. Scotland an English county, that's really what they want it to be.

VinLieger · 19-09-2014 9:38am

Berserker wrote: »

That vote will never happen. NI would never vote to leave the UK in favour of us.

Read the Good Friday agreement, it can happen very easily and once it starts it has to keep happening at regular intervals

2ndcoming · 19-09-2014 9:39am

iDave wrote: »

Not sure about that, they may struggle to be politically relevant now that the big issue they always pushed for got a No.

A landslide would have done that, 55/45 shows there is a serious proportion of the population of Scotland backing them. They'll be relevant in Scotland anyway.

Wabbit Ears · 19-09-2014 9:40am

for shame.

Millions and millions of people throughout history who have fought and died for freedom and independence just had their graves spat on.

Harry Palmr · 19-09-2014 9:40am

Supercell wrote: »

They might as well hand back their flag and adopt the Georges cross, after all that what the majority seems to want. Scotland an English county, that's really what they want it to be.

That's so stupid a post I'm not sure why I responded! Quite an insult.

LorMal · 19-09-2014 9:40am

Happyman42 wrote: »

Result as expected.
Gonna grab the popcorn and watch as English Nationalists and Welsh ones and NI one pull the whole thing asunder.
Cameron knows that devolution on the scale he promised hasn't a hope of getting through parliament. He will be able to blame others.
This is only starting imo, the battle is won but the war is going against the UK.

It's over. Forget about it.

razorblunt · 19-09-2014 9:42am

Life goes on over here today lads, the YES followers I work with are taking it in their stride, obviously dissapointed. The NO campaigners are worried about the 45% showing.

Tons of tv cameras to catch my hungover self this morning.

2ndcoming · 19-09-2014 9:42am

LorMal wrote: »

It's the Conservative (and Unionist) Party. They are passionate about the Union.

That's the party line. If you don't think they would drop NI like sh1t out of a goose if the chance arose you are misguided.

VinLieger · 19-09-2014 9:42am

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

for shame.

Millions and millions of people throughout history who have fought and died for freedom and independence just had their graves spat on.

Wow mindless rhetoric much?

The democratic process worked end of. People like you who cry when they don't get exactly what they want out of democracy are whats broken with Irish politics.
Newsflash sometimes yours is not the only opinion in the room.

LorMal · 19-09-2014 9:43am

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

for shame.

Millions and millions of people throughout history who have fought and died for freedom and independence just had their graves spat on.

Yeah...and did you ever watch Braveheart? That William Wallace huh?

Berserker · 19-09-2014 9:43am

VinLieger wrote: »

Read the Good Friday agreement, it can happen very easily and once it starts it has to keep happening at regular intervals

That was just another carrot to get Republicans on side. We, the RoI, voted in a ridiculous majority to remove any claim on that land in the same referendum.

hadepsx · 19-09-2014 9:43am

Mel Gibson will be turning in his grave

twinytwo · 19-09-2014 9:45am

VinLieger wrote: »

Wow mindless rhetoric much?

The democratic process worked end of. People like you who cry when they don't get exactly what they want out of democracy are whats broken with Irish politics.
Newsflash sometimes yours is not the only opinion in the room.

You mean like voting again because the suits didn't get the result they wanted??

LorMal · 19-09-2014 9:45am

2ndcoming wrote: »

That's the party line. If you don't think they would drop NI like sh1t out of a goose if the chance arose you are misguided.

Why is it the party line?

Sunnyisland · 19-09-2014 9:45am

hadepsx wrote: »

Mel Gibson will be turning in his grave

Is he dead yet :-)

Wurzelbert · 19-09-2014 9:46am

realies wrote: »

Is he dead yet :-)

think he meant wallace (who, afaik, doesn't have a grave or at least isn't in one piece)

EazyD · 19-09-2014 9:47am

LorMal wrote: »

Yeah...and did you ever watch Braveheart? That William Wallace huh?

While it may have been worded a little on the dramatic side, there is a valid point to be made.

hadepsx · 19-09-2014 9:48am

Wurzelbert wrote: »

think he meant wallace

Insert [That's the joke]gif here

LorMal · 19-09-2014 9:48am

Wurzelbert wrote: »

think he meant wallace (who, afaik, doesn't have a grave or at least isn't in one piece)

Eh no. It was irony.

Not2Good · 19-09-2014 9:50am

A question that someone may have already answered; has any state/region in the world ever turned down independence voluntarily in history?

OneColdHand · 19-09-2014 9:51am

Not2Good wrote: »

A question that someone may have already answered; has any state/region in the world ever turned down independence voluntarily in history?

Apparently not.

eeepaulo · 19-09-2014 9:52am

Not2Good wrote: »

A question that someone may have already answered; has any state/region in the world ever turned down independence voluntarily in history?

Somebody mentioned quebec, twice.

who the fug · 19-09-2014 9:54am

Not2Good wrote: »

A question that someone may have already answered; has any state/region in the world ever turned down independence voluntarily in history?

Newfoundland 1948

Wurzelbert · 19-09-2014 9:54am

Not2Good wrote: »

A question that someone may have already answered; has any state/region in the world ever turned down independence voluntarily in history?

interesting question...i’m sure similar polls have gone no elsewhere...but will have to do some research on that...

Not2Good · 19-09-2014 9:54am

eeepaulo wrote: »

Somebody mentioned quebec, twice.

Thank God there is at least one other!

Balmed Out · 19-09-2014 9:54am

quite a few have turned it down

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_referendum

Egginacup · 19-09-2014 9:56am

who the fug wrote: »

The people of Scotland took a look at the options , and made a rational decision based on the information supplied.

That is what happened folks, they did not bottle it, they are not stupid and democracy works

What does that mean? It's the vaguest, cliched soundbite I've ever heard.

Scottish Independence discussion area

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